Training camp roster/Media Day (merged)

sdballer said:
My sarcasm was directed at the perspective not the poster, which I'm pretty sure is part of the rules around here.

Honestly, it's a message board so I don't really care. I just don't understand how anytime anything is posted that questions the team's strategy, even when it's done in a thoughtful way (which my sarcasm may not have been the best demonstration of), a small segment of the board jumps on these posters with far more aggressiveness than the "cry babies" send their way.
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I think because its a new season, and with Cousins and Gay coming back with gold medals, everyone is trying to be optimistic. There's been a black cloud hanging over the team for the last 5 or 6 years. And for the most part, there's been very little to be optimistic about. So, I think most people would like to hang onto the idea of our team being better, until our win/loss record proves otherwise. You have your ideas of what the team needs to do, as do I. And I'll admit that its fallen short of what I wanted. But for now, I won't belabor that. I'm not saying you should do the same. I'm just trying to explain why some people don't want to hear a bunch of negativity right now. Trust me, everyone on this forum knows the shortcomings of last years team. Everyone knows we need to improve our defense. So there's no enlightening going on. To most, its like someone is poking a sore spot. Even if its true!

You can't on one hand, criticize the team because you disagree with the moves they've made, and then be surprised or upset, because some posters criticize you, because they disagree with the posts you made. It sort of comes with the territory.
 
bajaden said:
I think because its a new season, and with Cousins and Gay coming back with gold medals, everyone is trying to be optimistic. There's been a black cloud hanging over the team for the last 5 or 6 years. And for the most part, there's been very little to be optimistic about. So, I think most people would like to hang onto the idea of our team being better, until our win/loss record proves otherwise. You have your ideas of what the team needs to do, as do I. And I'll admit that its fallen short of what I wanted. But for now, I won't belabor that. I'm not saying you should do the same. I'm just trying to explain why some people don't want to hear a bunch of negativity right now. Trust me, everyone on this forum knows the shortcomings of last years team. Everyone knows we need to improve our defense. So there's no enlightening going on. To most, its like someone is poking a sore spot. Even if its true!

You can't on one hand, criticize the team because you disagree with the moves they've made, and then be surprised or upset, because some posters criticize you, because they disagree with the posts you made. It sort of comes with the territory.
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Fair point. I still think there's a difference between saying I don't like the moves the team has made and insulting a poster/telling them to go away.

One is a debate, even heated, about perspectives. The other is an elementary school playground.
 
I hate how the nerds are trying to take over the NBA(coming from a pretty nerdy guy myself). Stats cant measure the intagibles that separate the good and bad players. Heart, will, competitiveness, work ethic, desire to win, professionalism. Eye test and knowing a player on a personal level will tell me more about a player than any stats.
 
sdballer said:
He is an advanced stat guy who has helped to create and develop the NBA equivalent of Moneyball. In his basketball operations career, he has been a Director of Quantitative Analytics and he would likely report to PDA. He would assist the team primarily in identify players to target and avoid in discussions around the draft free agency and trades. He would probably be in support of positionless basketball but mostly his focus has been on maximizing offensive possesions through efficiency (EFG%, limiting turnovers, O-Reb and getting to the free throw line) while minimizing the same things on the other end of the court.
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I'm an A's fan, and an ex-player. However, I'm not a big Billy Beane fan. I've nothing against advanced stats, as long as they don't take the human element out of the equation. Which is what I believe Beane has done. He appears to me, to go strictly on the stats and doesn't take chemistry into account. There are times when a players value can't be determined by his stats. If your blind to that, your doomed to fail.
 
sdballer said:
Fair point. I still think there's a difference between saying I don't like the moves the team has made and insulting a poster/telling them to go away.

One is a debate, even heated, about perspectives. The other is an elementary school playground.
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While I understand the sentiment of wanting you to go away, or at least what you posted, to go away, it wasn't done in the most tactful way. But then, we've all lacked a little tact at times. At least I know I have.
 
sdballer said:
He is an advanced stat guy who has helped to create and develop the NBA equivalent of Moneyball. In his basketball operations career, he has been a Director of Quantitative Analytics and he would likely report to PDA. He would assist the team primarily in identify players to target and avoid in discussions around the draft free agency and trades. He would probably be in support of positionless basketball but mostly his focus has been on maximizing offensive possesions through efficiency (EFG%, limiting turnovers, O-Reb and getting to the free throw line) while minimizing the same things on the other end of the court.
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Thanks. Don't know whether I like the concept/role or not.
 
pshn80 said:
Thanks. Don't know whether I like the concept/role or not.
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I think if it's used as THE thing to evaluate talent, we could be in trouble. But if it's a more sophisticated way to find underated talent or to help balance the roster by identifying missing pieces, I think it's a good thing.

If you're going to hire an advanced star guy, go with the best and one that has proven nba operations success.
 
Albatros said:
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones · 19m19 minutes ago
Also, Jason Thompson has added a three point shot to his game


o_Oo_Oo_O
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tumblr_lta3b1KmAv1qii6tmo1_500.gif
 
Albatros said:
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones · 19m19 minutes ago
Also, Jason Thompson has added a three point shot to his game


o_Oo_Oo_O
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Well, I guess it's settled then. Sounds like JT is now the complete package. Everyone else should just pack and go home. :rolleyes::p Seriously, it doesn't hurt if he can be consistent from out there. I was amazed when I saw JT on media day. He looks like he's about 10 or 15 pounds lighter than last year. He's always in great shape, but now he almost looks like a SF. One would have to think it makes him quicker, and perhaps more explosive around the basket. Maybe!?
 
Chupacabra said:
We weren't the only ones. Doc Rivers lauded Collison for his defense with the Clippers. I lauded Collison for his defense every time I saw him play last year. McCallum plays above average D. It's the sg spot where we lack defense, not the entire backcourt. That assessment, sir/ma'am (rainmaker), is false.
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Not really. Since you disagree with my opinion on him, how about the opinion of someone who watched every game he played in Dallas?

Darren Collison - He is actually my vote for worst defensive player for Dallas. Collison may seem like a decent defender just because he manages to get a good number of steals, but if you focus on his defense for stretches of games you'll see why I feel this way. When covering the ball handler he usually has no idea where a screen is coming from, which is odd considering his teammates announce them. Even without screens Collison has trouble staying in front of offensive players, getting taken to the paint with annoying regularity. In terms of help defense, he makes the wrong rotation A LOT. I've seen instances of Shawn Marion pushing him towards the correct rotation after making the wrong one. That sort of thing shows a misunderstanding of the Dallas defensive scheme as well as a lack of faith in the rotations of his teammates. Some of this poor defense is related to not having a solid rim protector, because as I've stated defense is a team effort. He should still be much better than he is, considering his speed and quickness.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2013/4/11/4212656/in-their-defense-the-problematic-dallas-defenders

It's pretty spot on. He's a gambler, will get you steals, pressure up towards half court, but is fundamentally a poor defender in a half court setting when guarding 1v1 and dealing with picks/switches/rotations.

It's part of the reason Dallas didn't want him back. It's also part of the reason Indiana replaced him with George Hill as a starter heading into the playoffs, then traded him to Dallas.

As far as Ray, he doesn't appear to even be in the guard rotation with the signing of Sessions.

Most guards who are "lauded" for the defense don't play for 5 teams in their first 6 years, btw.
 
pshn80 said:
Being not as "advanced" as most on here, please tell me what Oliver does for a living, what his positions in the past have been called, and, lastly, if he is being hired by the Kings, what work would he do, who would he report to, and what would he be called? Advance me. (Is this sort of like the ongoing discussions of "small ball", "like Den and GS"?)
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Dean Oliver is basically the godfather of NBA Analytics. He's revolutionized the NBA. Somewhere around 26 out of 30 NBA teams have their own advanced analytics departments who have taken his concepts and run with them, the biggest being efficiency/volume analysis on a possession by possession basis. His philosophy isn't necessarily smallball; its play according to the strength of your team vis-a-vis the opponent. The idea is that "risky strategies" (smallball, shooting threes, fullcourt press) have a higher rate of winning when your team is an underdog and have much less utility as a favorite. He's worked for the Sonics and Nuggets in the past.

If I had to hazard a guess I would say that he would be heading our analytics department and will probably be an influential voice in PDA's ear. No idea what his job title would be.

Its a very impressive hire.
 
bajaden said:
Well, I guess it's settled then. Sounds like JT is now the complete package. Everyone else should just pack and go home. :rolleyes::p Seriously, it doesn't hurt if he can be consistent from out there. I was amazed when I saw JT on media day. He looks like he's about 10 or 15 pounds lighter than last year. He's always in great shape, but now he almost looks like a SF. One would have to think it makes him quicker, and perhaps more explosive around the basket. Maybe!?
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One would have to think that it could make him basically useless as a backup center. Maybe he spoke to Dean junkball guru Oliver over the summer.
 

Before we all start over reacting, I think it's a good idea to watch what JT says. First thing that strikes me is, he's not the one who says he's developed a 3 point shot - it's Malone in another interview. Secondly, I like how he says he wants to rebound the ball a little better.
 
To me it sounds like JT is calling out/accusing Cousins of hogging rebounds to stat pad. He also goes on a monologue of how he wants to average a double double and exactly how he will score his points. Kind of weird from a guy you expect to just be a hustle guy. Mentions how aside from he and Cousins every other position has been a carousel. That is true, but weirdly honest in a time where every other player is giving phoned in answers(listen to any training camp interview around the league and they all sound the same). This guy still seems super pissed, I doubt he makes it through this season with us.
 
jcwkings said:
To me it sounds like JT is calling out/accusing Cousins of hogging rebounds to stat pad. He also goes on a monologue of how he wants to average a double double and exactly how he will score his points. Kind of weird from a guy you expect to just be a hustle guy. Mentions how aside from he and Cousins every other position has been a carousel. That is true, but weirdly honest in a time where every other player is giving phoned in answers(listen to any training camp interview around the league and they all sound the same). This guy still seems super pissed, I doubt he makes it through this season with us.
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It's getting to the point where being a "straight shooter" is actually a rare characteristic these days. JT's interviews are some of the best, because he always shoots straight to what he honestly believes. He believes that he's fully capable of averaging a double/double and he's not going let anyone tell him that he shouldn't. Sounds good to me
 
rainmaker said:
Not really. Since you disagree with my opinion on him, how about the opinion of someone who watched every game he played in Dallas?

Darren Collison - He is actually my vote for worst defensive player for Dallas. Collison may seem like a decent defender just because he manages to get a good number of steals, but if you focus on his defense for stretches of games you'll see why I feel this way. When covering the ball handler he usually has no idea where a screen is coming from, which is odd considering his teammates announce them. Even without screens Collison has trouble staying in front of offensive players, getting taken to the paint with annoying regularity. In terms of help defense, he makes the wrong rotation A LOT. I've seen instances of Shawn Marion pushing him towards the correct rotation after making the wrong one. That sort of thing shows a misunderstanding of the Dallas defensive scheme as well as a lack of faith in the rotations of his teammates. Some of this poor defense is related to not having a solid rim protector, because as I've stated defense is a team effort. He should still be much better than he is, considering his speed and quickness.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2013/4/11/4212656/in-their-defense-the-problematic-dallas-defenders

It's pretty spot on. He's a gambler, will get you steals, pressure up towards half court, but is fundamentally a poor defender in a half court setting when guarding 1v1 and dealing with picks/switches/rotations.

It's part of the reason Dallas didn't want him back. It's also part of the reason Indiana replaced him with George Hill as a starter heading into the playoffs, then traded him to Dallas.

As far as Ray, he doesn't appear to even be in the guard rotation with the signing of Sessions.

Most guards who are "lauded" for the defense don't play for 5 teams in their first 6 years, btw.
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Since we're playing the "look at my fancy links from the interwebs" game, here it is:

http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/versatile-collison-has-been-difference-maker-clippers

“He’s just been good all around,” Rivers said. “But his defensive pressure has been phenomenal. It’s been game-changing at times. So, it’s been great.”

You have to consider the source. This is Doc rivers last year. Your source is someone that watched every game he played when he was in Dallas.
 
rainmaker said:
I will say, this strongly appears very similar to past incarnations of Den and GS. It wasn't until GS realized they needed defense, physicality and 3&D role players that they saw real improvement.
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And correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no expert on GS), but didn't those changes occur after management was changed?
 
jcwkings said:
To me it sounds like JT is calling out/accusing Cousins of hogging rebounds to stat pad. He also goes on a monologue of how he wants to average a double double and exactly how he will score his points. Kind of weird from a guy you expect to just be a hustle guy. Mentions how aside from he and Cousins every other position has been a carousel. That is true, but weirdly honest in a time where every other player is giving phoned in answers(listen to any training camp interview around the league and they all sound the same). This guy still seems super pissed, I doubt he makes it through this season with us.
Click to expand...

I think one thing that is certain is that JT believes he should be more involved in the offense. He has more than once brought up how he and Hawes were once looked to as the future frontcourt of the team, and I interpret that as him still wanting to play a bigger role on the team. And to a certain extent, that isn't unreasonable. JT isn't Reggie Evans. He's proven that he can get you 8-10 points a night, and frankly I'm glad that he's identified an easy way for him to contribute on offense which suggests that he's not going to be demanding the ball for shots or anything like that. You can't blame a guy for trying to find ways to help the team while still being a contributing option, especially the longest tenured guy on the team. I also don't think he was implying that Cousins was a stat padder, but rather that Cousins is out there looking to rebound the ball far more than Brad Miller was (and thank goodness!). I mean ... for something like rebounding it's rarely ever a case where guys literally fight over the rebound. JT probably just meant that Cousins would really go after every rebound in his vicinity.
 
regarding the JT interview; you can see he isn't holding back anymore his feelings about what's been going on throughout his career here. I don't mind it, but at the same time I still think he needs a change of scenery and it will do the team and him some good from just a mental standpoint. JT obviously knows it's been a carousel around here for the longest time and that's not under his control, you just have to be a professional and I feel that's what he has been sans a few comments over the summers.
 
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