Trading for Cleveland's #8

[VF21]

You have to have a complete hand, though. And they still have some glaring holes to fill and, depending upon whom they end up with at #2, an imbalanced roster.

They are far from a finished product. You never stop building upon what you have. Look at the Celtics as a prime example. They keep piling up draft picks and they're doing ok. The Kings haven't come close to compiling draft picks yet.

I'm not suggesting that they do that now, but I do think adding another in this draft, if possible, could be a good thing to do.

I agree they are not a finished product. I do maintain, however, that we do not have enough information to properly assess the talent we have right now. It would, to continue the card analogy, be like deciding to draw three cards to a hand you haven't yet looked at.

 

[VF21]

Yeah but you gotta spend the time to look at your cards to evaluate what you got. You don't just shuffle them back and forth till you start with good cards like it's a real card game. When the turn hits (we drafted Doncic or Ayton), it might turn the cards in your hand upside down. (With Doncic, you might want to start trying different lineups that involve fast pacing WCS + Giles front court to see if the ball movement will turn them some Capela-esque easy buckets; With Ayton, now he's your center of attention on offense, do you now put a defensive-minded KK next to him? Or try to develop his defense with Giles to space the floor?) Only after then, you'll be able to tell what exactly you are missing.

Patience is a virtue, grasshopper.

(... which also makes me a bad forum guest because I seldom see the point on arguing too far ahead... )

EXACTLY! I should have read further before I responded to KingsFanSince85.

 

[Warhawk]

No such thing as too much talent. All of our young guys aren't going to pan out.

So your argument is that because our draftees may not all pan out, we should spend $36 mil to buy a #8 pick......that may not pan out? Huh?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

While I don't necessarily disagree, I question the idea that if we're willing to get rid of WCS or Skal they'll bring valuable assets in return. It seems to be de rigueur around here to assume our disposable assets will be someone else's treasures. If WCS is good enough to bring high value in return, isn't he good enough to keep around? Skal I just don't have much faith in, not because he doesn't have heart but because he just doesn't seem to have an NBA physique.

I don't think they are going to do it alone so much as we might be able to use them plus other expirings for a team looking to free space now or 2019. Like if Washington is having second thoughts about that huge deal they gave Porter.

 

[ESP47]

So your argument is that because our draftees may not all pan out, we should spend $36 mil to buy a #8 pick......that may not pan out? Huh?

What's confusing about this? Do you have a way of telling if a free agent or lottery pick is going to pan out before we acquire them? I know you're attempting to make me look stupid but it's a really simple philosophy.

Last year, $32 million got you Zbo and Hill.

2016, roughly $44 million got you Afflalo, Tolliver, Temple, Koufos and Barnes.

Would you not trade all those players for 2 lottery picks? I sure as hell would but no other team in the league would be a willing trade partner because it would be a bad deal for them. None of these guys are panning out anyway so why not use the cap space to acquire some random bloated contract player in turn for a lottery pick? Nothing worth a damn is going to be signed with that cap space anyway so you might as well pick up a lottery pick if you have the chance because you never know if you're going to get the next Donovan Mitchell. But you sure as hell know you aren't going to get the next Donovan Mitchell when you sign that bunch right there.

 

[Warhawk]

What's confusing about this? Do you have a way of telling if a free agent or lottery pick is going to pan out before we acquire them? I know you're attempting to make me look stupid but it's a really simple philosophy.

Last year, $32 million got you Zbo and Hill.

2016, roughly $44 million got you Afflalo, Tolliver, Temple, Koufos and Barnes.

Would you not trade all those players for 2 lottery picks? I sure as hell would but no other team in the league would be a willing trade partner because it would be a bad deal for them. None of these guys are panning out anyway so why not use the cap space to acquire some random bloated contract player in turn for a lottery pick? Nothing worth a damn is going to be signed with that cap space anyway so you might as well pick up a lottery pick if you have the chance because you never know if you're going to get the next Donovan Mitchell. But you sure as hell know you aren't going to get the next Donovan Mitchell when you sign that bunch right there.

All of those contracts (or virtually all) were short-term overpays to fill in the roster for 1-2 years so we don't have long-term deals on the books for next year. Some were also signed expressly in order to have established vets helping with our young draftees develop.

And I would not pay $36 mil for a number 8 lottery pick unless it is LBJ or Durant landing in your lap.

 

[ESP47]

All of those contracts (or virtually all) were short-term overpays to fill in the roster for 1-2 years so we don't have long-term deals on the books for next year. Some were also signed expressly in order to have established vets helping with our young draftees develop.

And I would not pay $36 mil for a number 8 lottery pick unless it is LBJ or Durant landing in your lap.

Who are these established vets that we're planning on signing? If history is any indication, the Kings won't be able to sign a starter. Who is the last tried and true playoff caliber player that the Kings signed? Rondo took a 1 year contract with us strictly to build up his value and get a deal elsewhere. Maybe my memory is bad but I feel like you have to go all the way back to Bobby Jackson and Vlade before you run into free agents worth a damn that signed here.

I know taking on Tristan Thompson's contract seems stupid but I'm 99% sure we're going to get to next year and have no one worthwhile to spend the money on. I'd rather take a chance on a talented rookie and just live with an overpaid backup center for a couple years. They'll end up spending the money on someone whether it's a Capela typle player that gets way overpaid for being the 4th best player on a playoff team or an Aaron Gordon type player who more than likely isn't a playoff caliber player anyway.

In the end they're going to have dead money one way or another because that's essentially what nearly all their free agent signings have been for the last 15 years. Just a bunch of wasted money.

 

[206Fan]

Z-Bo + WCS for 8th and Tristan.

Z-Bo an expiring and could actually be good next to Lebron should he stay. Willie + Nance would be a super fun athletic second unit big lineup. We'd get saddled with Tristan's contract and having to deal with Kardashian attention going forward.

WCS isn't going to cut it. If the Kings had the 8th pick, would you trade WCS for the 8th pick?

Conversation would need to start around Bogdan or Buddy with WCS.

 

[Joshoua]

WCS isn't going to cut it. If the Kings had the 8th pick, would you trade WCS for the 8th pick?

Conversation would need to start around Bogdan or Buddy with WCS.

Wcs wontbeven Get you Washington’s pick let alone a lottery pick

 

[Turgenev]

WCS isn't going to cut it. If the Kings had the 8th pick, would you trade WCS for the 8th pick?

Conversation would need to start around Bogdan or Buddy with WCS.

Are you sure? I thought the market for role players on 27 win teams was at it's peak. Oh well. Guess we will just have to settle for what he can offer on court :/

 

[Warhawk]

Who are these established vets that we're planning on signing? If history is any indication, the Kings won't be able to sign a starter. Who is the last tried and true playoff caliber player that the Kings signed? Rondo took a 1 year contract with us strictly to build up his value and get a deal elsewhere. Maybe my memory is bad but I feel like you have to go all the way back to Bobby Jackson and Vlade before you run into free agents worth a damn that signed here.

I know taking on Tristan Thompson's contract seems stupid but I'm 99% sure we're going to get to next year and have no one worthwhile to spend the money on. I'd rather take a chance on a talented rookie and just live with an overpaid backup center for a couple years. They'll end up spending the money on someone whether it's a Capela typle player that gets way overpaid for being the 4th best player on a playoff team or an Aaron Gordon type player who more than likely isn't a playoff caliber player anyway.

In the end they're going to have dead money one way or another because that's essentially what nearly all their free agent signings have been for the last 15 years. Just a bunch of wasted money.

I think the general consensus was that George Hill was a great get as a signing when it happened. I know it didn't work out as planned but it was an overpay for a player nearly everyone thought would be good for this team and praised at the time. Z-Bo as well, to a lesser extent. There are two from last year alone.

I get what you are saying. I see your side. But paying $36 mil just for the rights to draft someone at #8 who history says has a fair chance of not making it in the NBA and then paying the salary associated with that pick is not what I would advocate. I'd rather reach and throw a short term overpay/max contract at someone younger with displayed NBA talent with that kind of money. Let them prove it if they deserve to get that kind of contract again (longer term). But that is $$$ spent on a targeted (somewhat proven) asset, and not a complete shot in the dark at someone who hasn't played at this level.

And don't ask me specifically who because I don't much follow the NBA at large, and specifically not all the players on various teams. This is a statement of philosophy, and not an advocation for any particular player. I'm a Kings fan and I don't have the time or inclination to watch a significant amount of other team's games (except for maybe here and there in the playoffs - and I've seen maybe three of those this year because they were on when I was channel-flipping). That's a question for all you NBA 2K types to debate endlessly (and ad-nauseum) in the Personnel Moves forum. You will notice I don't spend a lot of time in there/contribute much to those conversations.

And I think that is what Vlade has been planning - pick up several players over the past couple years as draft picks to stock up on youth and then pay to fill in the gaps next year when we: don't have a draft pick, have no long-term bad contracts, and have a couple years to see how the younger players are doing.

 

[whozit]

I think the general consensus was that George Hill was a great get as a signing when it happened. I know it didn't work out as planned but it was an overpay for a player nearly everyone thought would be good for this team and praised at the time. Z-Bo as well, to a lesser extent. There are two from last year alone.

I get what you are saying. I see your side. But paying $36 mil just for the rights to draft someone at #8 who history says has a fair chance of not making it in the NBA and then paying the salary associated with that pick is not what I would advocate. I'd rather reach and throw a short term overpay/max contract at someone younger with displayed NBA talent with that kind of money. Let them prove it if they deserve to get that kind of contract again (longer term). But that is $$$ spent on a targeted (somewhat proven) asset, and not a complete shot in the dark at someone who hasn't played at this level.

And don't ask me specifically who because I don't much follow the NBA at large, and specifically not all the players on various teams. This is a statement of philosophy, and not an advocation for any particular player. I'm a Kings fan and I don't have the time or inclination to watch a significant amount of other team's games (except for maybe here and there in the playoffs - and I've seen maybe three of those this year because they were on when I was channel-flipping). That's a question for all you NBA 2K types to debate endlessly (and ad-nauseum) in the Personnel Moves forum. You will notice I don't spend a lot of time in there/contribute much to those conversations.

And I think that is what Vlade has been planning - pick up several players over the past couple years as draft picks to stock up on youth and then pay to fill in the gaps next year when we: don't have a draft pick, have no long-term bad contracts, and have a couple years to see how the younger players are doing.

Stop making sense. I like your line of thinking and can relate to not having the time or inclination to follow other teams.

 

[ESP47]

I think the general consensus was that George Hill was a great get as a signing when it happened. I know it didn't work out as planned but it was an overpay for a player nearly everyone thought would be good for this team and praised at the time. Z-Bo as well, to a lesser extent. There are two from last year alone.

I get what you are saying. I see your side. But paying $36 mil just for the rights to draft someone at #8 who history says has a fair chance of not making it in the NBA and then paying the salary associated with that pick is not what I would advocate. I'd rather reach and throw a short term overpay/max contract at someone younger with displayed NBA talent with that kind of money. Let them prove it if they deserve to get that kind of contract again (longer term). But that is $$$ spent on a targeted (somewhat proven) asset, and not a complete shot in the dark at someone who hasn't played at this level.

And don't ask me specifically who because I don't much follow the NBA at large, and specifically not all the players on various teams. This is a statement of philosophy, and not an advocation for any particular player. I'm a Kings fan and I don't have the time or inclination to watch a significant amount of other team's games (except for maybe here and there in the playoffs - and I've seen maybe three of those this year because they were on when I was channel-flipping). That's a question for all you NBA 2K types to debate endlessly (and ad-nauseum) in the Personnel Moves forum. You will notice I don't spend a lot of time in there/contribute much to those conversations.

And I think that is what Vlade has been planning - pick up several players over the past couple years as draft picks to stock up on youth and then pay to fill in the gaps next year when we: don't have a draft pick, have no long-term bad contracts, and have a couple years to see how the younger players are doing.

I'm sure you're right about that being Vlade's plan but we just know as Kings fans what extra cap money means. It usually just means overpaid low level players that come here for their last decent sized contracts. If Sacramento was a big market, I wouldn't have a problem at all with the plan but I don't think it's a good plan because it's almost completely unprecedented since the franchise arrived here.

The only thing I'll say is that it's not just paying $36mil for a draft pick. You're still getting a player back in return and Tristan Thompson isn't dead weight. He was pretty solid the last couple years before getting hurt this year. You just obviously don't want a backup C on a bloated contract like that but you have to give up something to get something in return.

If you could tell me today that for the next two years (knowing we have no pick next year), the main acquisitions for the Kings would be Tristan Thompson, Doncic and say Miles Bridges as a stretch 4(or just best player available), I'd be perfectly fine rolling the dice on that. The other scenario would be Doncic and a couple of free agents. History says those free agents will be of the Tolliver, Temple, Koufos, Hill, Belinelli, Sessions, Rondo, ZBo fashion. I'm taking the first scenario all day long because I think that the odds of just guessing and landing a decent player at 8 is better than the odds of landing valuable free agents for this franchise.