Trade Thornton and Thompson?

[twslam07]

As I have watched Tyreke play over the years I have come to the conclusion that I do not like him as our PG. He has a SG mentality. Many people might just look at the stats sheet and see that he is averaging 5 assists per game and say he is suitable for PG, but stats do not tell you everything. I noticed that he gets most of his assists when he decides to go one-on-one and beats his man and dishes it off for a quick jumper and assist. Although this is useful this is not how true PGs get assists. They get them by running the offense, pick and rolls, dishing to the perimeter from a drive, and by making passes with their man still in front of him. This is the kind of passer we need to head our PG position. So I have come to the conclusion that we need to get a true PG and push Tyreke to SG where he belongs.

As most of you are, I am very excited as well as nervous for the upcoming offseason and draft. I have been playing out a few scenarios in my head in which the kings could do.

1. If the Kings are lucky enough to be able to draft Kyrie Irving with their first pick, they should do it in a heart beat. Irving would be an excellent addition to our team and fit that facilitator position perfectly. He also is a great scorer who has a good jump shot. After Drafting Irving, our core three would be Irving, Tyreke, and Cousins. Since Thornton is young and has been playing extremely well with us, we should trade him to get some value at other positions that need help. I think the following trade offers would be beneficial to the Kings:

Thornton, Thompson, and 2nd round pick for Derrick Williams
Thornton and Thompson for Enes Kanter (or a 1st round pick where we could pick him)
Thornton, Thompson, and 2nd round pick for Bogut

I feel anyone of these trade would leave us with a solid young 4 (Irving, Tyreke, Cousins, Williams/Kanter/Bogut) to rely on.


2. If the Kings are unable to draft Irving but still lucky enough to draft Derrick Williams, then they should go for it. This will leave them with Tyreke, Williams, and Cousins as their core three. They then can pursue the following trades to improve their team even further:

Thornton, Thompson, and 2nd round pick for Bogut
Thornton and Thompson for Enes Kanter (or a 1st round pick where we could pick him)
Thornton and Thompson for Kemba Walker (or a 1st round pick where we could pick him)

This would leave us with Tyreke, Williams, Cousins, Bogut/Kanter/Walker

From what I have seen out of Walker is that he is a superb scorer who is physical and very quick. I have also observed that he has excellent court vision and often times he makes precision passes with ease. He may seem as though he is just a scoring point guard, but that is what he had to be for UCONN to be contenders. I feel if he was surrounded by players who could take some of the responsibility from him, we would see his passing abilities shine through a bit more. If not, then we draft a very talented offensive scoring PG who is probably one of the safer picks in the draft.


3. If the kings are unable to draft Irving or Williams, then they should look at targeting Kemba or Kanter or trading the pick. After making their decision they should attempt to make the following trades to improve:

If Kemba drafted:
Thornton, Thompson, and 2nd round pick for Bogut
Thornton, Thompson, and 2nd round pick for Derrick Williams
Thornton and Thompson for Enes Kanter (or a 1st round pick where we could pick him)

If Kanter drafted:
Thornton, Thompson, and 2nd round pick for Derrick Williams
Thornton and Thompson for Kemba Walker (or a 1st round pick where we could pick him)

If they decide they want to trade the pick:
1st round pick for Greg Oden
Thornton, Thompson, and 2nd round pick for Derrick Williams
Thornton and Thompson for Kemba Walker (or a 1st round pick where we could pick him)

I know what you are thinking about Oden. He has only played 82 games in his first 4 seasons. We do not need that kind of train wreck in Sacramento, but believe it or not Oden is next to some pretty intriguing names on the "fewest games played for an overall first pick in his first 4 seasons." He actually is tied with David Robinson with 82 games in his first 4 seasons, followed by Webber only playing 145 games in his first 4 seasons as a former 1st overall selection. Next on the list is Bill Walton at 151 games and Mychal Thompson coming in at 5th with 152 games. I am not saying Oden is going to be as good as these guys because he has been hurt so much these past 4 years. I am just saying do not count him out just yet because we could be missing out on the next Robinson or Webber.


Anyways, these are my thoughts on what the Kings should do this offseason. Any replies are more than welcome.

 

[Spok22]

Thornton is our finisher we definitely need to keep him. As crazy as it seems, i would rather trade tyreke. For me he just does too much one on one play and i dont know if hell ever grow out of it. If you havent noticed, ever since he has come back, the team is starting to return to old bad habits like not moving the ball and standing around when he has it. He's doing more hurt than good for this team at the moment.

 

[sidney]

You put a lot into that first post, so welcome.

As others have shown in other threads, the ball movement issue has been largely addressed as Cousins has continued to show himself as an elite big man passer and Thornton has surprisingly shown more willingness to pass than expected.

We have a ton of talent, albeit not all of it is traditional. I supposed you could tear it down to try and get a pure PG, pure SG, etc. but that would be crazy. It's finally starting to work. Looking at our team as a whole, there are not so many holes to fill since clear weaknesses are covered elsewhere.

Wing defense, leadership, 3PT shooting, another willing passer at the SF spot and we could really be getting somewhere next year. No need to get rid of Thornton or Tyreke to do it. Thompson may have just found a productive niche too with solid minutes against other backups.

As a side note, I think just about all your proposed trades are highly unlikely matches.

 

[Bricklayer]

People really really REALLY have to get off the "we need a pure PG" kick. Not only are we not going to have one, but one would be a poor fit for current personnel. Reke is not an off the ball player, no matter if you call him a PG or a SG. And Cousins should and will have the ball in his hands a tremendous amount of the time. A pure PG actually detracts from the games of your two most important players.

Unless he abandons us in FA its clear Evans/Thronton, and quite possibly Beno is the way we wil be going here. If we need a little extra ballhandling, we can angle our SF position that way. But the 3-guard looks set, and with JTs strong kick the 3-bigs should be set too if we are effective in free agency. Anf furthermore our roleplaying personnel already does well with the personnel we have -- JT, Daly, Donte all get multiple open shots around the rim, and JT and Donte in particular work well with Reke. Beno of course can take care of himself as can Thornton. We're not a machine yet, but there is no Peja or KMart figure on this team who needs pure PG help to make it happen for him.

Cousins is the key personnel. One of the advantages/consequences of constantly having great passing big men here is that you don't need, and are very unlikely to have a Nash style ball dominating PG. And really now, its hardly been a requiremnet of great teams in the last few decades. Teams with great players at other positons often look like the Lakers or Heat, with "PGs" who's job is just to dribble the ball over halfcourt and get out of the way. Or if one of those greatplayers is the PG, it ends up looking like San Antonio or Chicago, where the PG is shoot first. You have Boston of course -- you can still run a traditional system, but its far from a necessity, and often just does not fit.

 

[bajaden]

Thornton, in his short time here looks to be a valuable piece of the future going forward, and Thompson appears to be the perfect third big off the bench. It looks like the light has finally gone on. Why, would you want to disrupt the team to such a degree. This is not the time to start changing players. What we need to do is add to what we have, and then let the players build a little chemistry. But to analyize some of your suggestions. Why would you trade two proven players for unproven players like Walker, Kanter, or Williams. All three may well turn out to be good players, but your giving up two proven NBA players for one unproven player. Your not placing much value on your own players. And your overvaluing potential draft picks. We're not talking about LeBron James here.

Why would we want Bogut if we have Cousins and Dalembert? We don't need another center. Who would start out of those three? Who would be the unhappy camper on the bench?

Why don't we just keep what we have, see what we can get out of the draft, and then make some moves in the freeagency period, whenever that happens. I might add, that as july 1st, Thornton becomes a freeagent, so any trade would have to be prior to, or on draft day.

 

[Fear the Putin]

There is no true blueprint for an NBA team

Just because there are "true" point guards out there, doesn't mean you absolutely need one to win.

 

[pshn80]

People really really REALLY have to get off the "we need a pure PG" kick. Not only are we not going to have one, but one would be a poor fit for current personnel. Reke is not an off the ball player, no matter if you call him a PG or a SG. And Cousins should and will have the ball in his hands a tremendous amount of the time. A pure PG actually detracts from the games of your two most important players.

Unless he abandons us in FA its clear Evans/Thronton, and quite possibly Beno is the way we wil be going here. If we need a little extra ballhandling, we can angle our SF position that way. But the 3-guard looks set, and with JTs strong kick the 3-bigs should be set too if we are effective in free agency. Anf furthermore our roleplaying personnel already does well with the personnel we have -- JT, Daly, Donte all get multiple open shots around the rim, and JT and Donte in particular work well with Reke. Beno of course can take care of himself as can Thornton. We're not a machine yet, but there is no Peja or KMart figure on this team who needs pure PG help to make it happen for him.

Cousins is the key personnel. One of the advantages/consequences of constantly having great passing big men here is that you don't need, and are very unlikely to have a Nash style ball dominating PG. And really now, its hardly been a requiremnet of great teams in the last few decades. Teams with great players at other positons often look like the Lakers or Heat, with "PGs" who's job is just to dribble the ball over halfcourt and get out of the way. Or if one of those greatplayers is the PG, it ends up looking like San Antonio or Chicago, where the PG is shoot first. You have Boston of course -- you can still run a traditional system, but its far from a necessity, and often just does not fit.

With all due respect, and your points are right on except that, right now, Tyreke is not the one to get the ball to Cousins. He's not a good passer and that pass is not his game.

I disagree with the original poster here. Keep those that are playing now. Get a better small forward if we can and get a replacement for Pooh - a bigger and better point guard to back up our main three guards. I hope Tyreke works on his passing and develops as a partner in flow of the game play. As much as he is a fantastic talent and a keeper he really needs to broaden his abilities to make all this work better.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

thank the jesus u arent the GM. we've been looking for a outside threat for the longest and the first sneeze, u'll trade him for an unproven player. no outside threat = lane clogging / players doubling w/ no penalty of 3 pt shot

 

[twslam07]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm starting see your point. When I think about the "true PG" a little more in depth, I realize there are a lot of great teams that do not have a true PG.

So who do you guys think we should target in this years draft? I'm having a hard time seeing us getting Williams with our draft lottery luck. So should we go SF (Vesely, T Jones, Hamilton) or PF/C (Kanter, Motiejunas, Valanciunas, P Jones) with our first pick?

If we went SF with our first pick we could go after Marc Gasol in free agency and then release Dalembert. I know that it is probably a long shot to get Gasol but that would be pretty sweet.

What do you think?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I might add, that as july 1st, Thornton becomes a freeagent, so any trade would have to be prior to, or on draft day.

Actually, since it's after the trade deadline and Thornton's contract is up, he can't be traded. Period. Kinda throws a wrench into the idea of trading Thornton. In principle, he could be signed-and-traded in July (pending the new CBA rules...)

 

[rainmaker]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm starting see your point. When I think about the "true PG" a little more in depth, I realize there are a lot of great teams that do not have a true PG.

So who do you guys think we should target in this years draft? I'm having a hard time seeing us getting Williams with our draft lottery luck. So should we go SF (Vesely, T Jones, Hamilton) or PF/C (Kanter, Motiejunas, Valanciunas, P Jones) with our first pick?

If we went SF with our first pick we could go after Marc Gasol in free agency and then release Dalembert. I know that it is probably a long shot to get Gasol but that would be pretty sweet.

What do you think?

I think you're too concerned with breaking up what is working, and will continue to mature together. First, Dally is a FA, so we can't release him. Second, why would you want to replace Dally with Gasol. Dally is a better rebounder, and a much better protector of the rim, exactly what we need next to Cousins. We don't need to put someone next to Cousins who's worse at defense than Dally, and requires more shots.

Also, Memphis is deadset on resigning Gasol. P Jones isn't coming out. And regarding the draft, if we don't get a top 2 pick, I'd strongly consider packaging the pick with Omri.

 

[Vlade4GM]

First of all, I don't think we can trade Thornton since he's going to be a free agent. Second, even if we could trade him, why would anyone trade for him? All we're offering them is a free agent without bird rights. That's just useless.

 

[twslam07]

I think you're too concerned with breaking up what is working, and will continue to mature together. First, Dally is a FA, so we can't release him. Second, why would you want to replace Dally with Gasol. Dally is a better rebounder, and a much better protector of the rim, exactly what we need next to Cousins. We don't need to put someone next to Cousins who's worse at defense than Dally, and requires more shots.

Also, Memphis is deadset on resigning Gasol. P Jones isn't coming out. And regarding the draft, if we don't get a top 2 pick, I'd strongly consider packaging the pick with Omri.

I thought Gasol would be a good fit because he actually provides an offensive threat unlike Dalembert. Gasol is a complete player while still in the brighter side of his career.

Who are you thinking we would target for casspi and our 1st?

 

[Smills91]

I thought Gasol would be a good fit because he actually provides an offensive threat unlike Dalembert. Gasol is a complete player while still in the brighter side of his career.

Who are you thinking we would target for casspi and our 1st?

Danny Granger is the only reaslistic possibility I could see for that package who might be remotely available. Otherwise stick with the status quo and keep on building.

 

[bajaden]

Actually, since it's after the trade deadline and Thornton's contract is up, he can't be traded. Period. Kinda throws a wrench into the idea of trading Thornton. In principle, he could be signed-and-traded in July (pending the new CBA rules...)

To be honest, and I always am, I thought that was the case, but I was too lazy to go and look it up, and believe me, you don't want to rely on my memory. So thanks for the update...

 

[bajaden]

With all due respect, and your points are right on except that, right now, Tyreke is not the one to get the ball to Cousins. He's not a good passer and that pass is not his game.

I disagree with the original poster here. Keep those that are playing now. Get a better small forward if we can and get a replacement for Pooh - a bigger and better point guard to back up our main three guards. I hope Tyreke works on his passing and develops as a partner in flow of the game play. As much as he is a fantastic talent and a keeper he really needs to broaden his abilities to make all this work better.

Tyreke is a second year player, as is Thornton. Both are quite capable of making an entry pass into the post. Does Tyreke make a lazy pass from time to time? Yes! But for gods sake, you can't brand him for life because of it. Players develop and get better. Some of that should have happened this season, but with one injury after another for Tyreke, and the constant changing of the starting lineup, the progress was slowed. Two years ago when Rose came into the league his outside shot was not very good. Now he's a decent to good shooter from out there. Good players get better, and you have to allow for that.

Will everyone remember that these kids are coming into the league at 18 and 19 years of age. For heavens sake, cut them a little slack.

 

[gunks]

For real.

I'm as critical as Tyreke as anyone (well, maybe not ANYONE) but I'm also patient enough to wait it out. Dude plays selfish/dumb at times, but he's young, and with good coaching he can turn it around. I still think Reke's ceiling is in the 25/5/7 territory of awesomeness. But it might be another 5 years before he reaches that peak (if ever).

 

[SacKings7]

You know, we are allowed to keep some of the talent we acquire, we don't always have to trade it away. With that being said, I am perfectly on board with us taking either Irving, Williams, Walker or Brandon Knight (depending on where we draft) in a few months.

 

[Lafayette]

Tyreke is the PG with Thornton at the SG, KINGS need a legit SF

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I would say no. The team is looking like it's really starting to gel for the first time in years and years. I wouldn't mess with that by trading two of the key pieces.

 

[hiero]

I totally disagree with OP. Thornton/Evans is a good combo, along with cousins we have solid passing. we really need a sf who can defend and shoot and score off the ball. Williams or barnes would
both be great fits. blowing it up when things are really starting to click as a team would be dumb. we need to focus on re-signing dalembert and thornton and adding a sf or elite talent in this years draft. honestly the way Thornton has played it'd be hard for me to take Irving over Derrick williams

 

[Sac.1989]

Discrace of a proposal. JT has shown this year that hes more than capable of being a solid role player and part time starter. Hes worked hard and im not about to ship him off when he is still improving. Thornton i aint even going to add him to this.

 

[Lockehead]

Id like to see Thornton and Tyreke try something different. Thornton should try to be a PG while Tyrekes does his best SG impression. We already know Thornton can score at will, so he can definitely lead the PG role along with good defense. Let him develop the PG skills; we've already seen that he is a pretty good passer and definitely knows how to set up his teammates and get some chemistry going. Meanwhile Tyreke gets to develop what he does most; SCORE. The kid has a natural instinct to score. I dont think were using his full potential by wanting him to be a playmaker and play PG. He is a SG, and a damn good one if the team and coaching staff wants him to be. I just think overall, that kind of backccourt can a damn good lot for other backccourts in the NBA to match up with.

Our frontcourt has been dominating so damn well, its up to our backccourt now to give us those consistent performances.

 

[Sac.1989]

Evans has a greater hope then Thornton at being a PG. Kid already averages close to 6 assists when hes fit

 

[Spike]

This conversation is bordering on the absurd. You have two guards that complement each other well, and are getting bogged down in the details of who is a PG and who should play SG?

It doesn't matter. It mattered in grade school through high school, and most colleges, unless you played in an open post system. It sure doesn't matter in the NBA, unless you're setting up the graphics for a game on TNT or NBATV or whatever.

What matters is that they coexist, and so far, so good. Let's see how an offseason of getting to know each other works.

 

[CaminoChaos]

PG, SG, off Guard, 2-guard, 1 guard....It doesn't matter...It's pretty simple. Get the ball across half court. Put the ball into Tyreke's, DeMarcus or Thorton's hands. The others set screens, spotting up, cutting, etc. Let your best players do the work and make the decsions. Tyreke will get better at making passes in traffic. He is a talented player and well respected in the league for his ability to get to the hole. Defenses will collapse on him. We need a cold blooded shooter that can play a little D. A shane Battier type player would be perfect for this team.

Also resign Thorton, Dalembert and don't trade JT. All play with a lot of heart and bring a lot to the team. I believe that Thorton and Dalembert are going to be asking for contracts in the $6-$8 mill./yr. range. I would sign Thorton to long term and Dalembert to 3 years.

Build on what we got. Add a shooter and some vets and I think we could be a bubble playoff team next year.

 

[Lockehead]

True, it could work without any real positions. But it certainly does help in particular down the stretch when the team needs execution and consistency. I think its at least worth a try. We just havent seen what they can do together if they were to play a certain position and not be muddled up in playmaking and decision making.