Trade talk in Hoopsworld:

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Let's Make A Deal: There are just 59 days until the NBA trade deadline. With the clock ticking down, more and more teams are starting to entertain more "serious" trade talks. Here are the teams who seem more interested in making a deal, and some of the players they are shopping:
Charlotte: The Charlotte Bobcats are one of the more aggressive shoppers in the league right now, they are trying to get Larry Brown players more to his liking and word is they would trade just about anyone on the roster not named DJ Augustin. The prime guys being shopping appear to be Raymond Felton, who according to some near the situation would welcome a fresh start with another team. The other Charlotte players being shopped include Adam Morrison, a player with almost no trade value as well as Big Sean May, who could have the worst trade value on the team. The Bobcats have a number of guys no one wants, so the idea of them finding a splashy trade seems fairly remote, but that has not stopped them from going after deals. Expect the Cats to trigger at least one more move before the February 19th trade deadline, and expect the deal to involve moving out Raymond Felton.
Sacramento: The Sacramento Kings are also being aggressive in talks, more or less trying to establish value on Brad Miller. The Kings are also open to moving John Salmons, who may be the more impressive chip the Kings have to cash. The Kings are looking to re-tool this summer so ending deals matter more than talent, although sources close to the situation say picking up a young guy still on a rookie deal with upside might be enticing enough to get the Kings to move. The Kings are trying to package Brad Miller with Kenny Thomas, and were linked to the Miami HEAT's Shawn Marion although it seems there may not be enough interest from the HEAT to get that deal done. The scenario that seems most appealing to the Kings would be swapping Brand Miller and Kenny Thomas to the Cavaliers for the ending contract of Wally Szczerbiak and impressive rookie J.J. Hickson. The Cavs have maintained almost no interest in making a deal, but adding an experienced offensive threat in the frontcourt like Miller might be an interesting upgrade for the Cavs, if they decide to make a move. Moving J.J. Hickson might not be smart in the long term, even though Brad Miller might cement a NBA Finals run and give the Cavs much needed depth at the center position.
Oklahoma City: The Thunder are going nowhere quickly, and like the Kings are looking to turn some of their more veteran players into future flexibility and assets. Joe Smith, Chris Wilcox and Earl Watson are all rumored to be available, but sources close to the situation say the Thunder are not looking at long term deals, unless its to acquire a legit future all-star type player. Smith could be a very interesting piece for a playoff team, sources close to the situation say Smith was virtually guaranteed he'd be moved by the trade deadline. The Thunder have been thoroughly impressed with Smith's professionalism so far this season. The Raptors, Magic and HEAT could do a lot worse – all three are rumored to have taken a pass at Smith and the Thunder.
Golden State: Add the Golden State Warriors to the imploding fast, list… The Warriors are not only a bad team, but the chemistry and unity in the locker room appears to be at an all-time low. By contrast the Warriors were one of the tighter groups last year, just goes to show that roster moves do not always make a team better. The Warriors are rumored to be shopping rookie Anthony Randolph and second year player Brendan Wright; both players are firmly in Don Nelson's doghouse. Free agent acquisition Corey Maggette is not too far behind those guys, but reports of a slightly torn Hamstring may limit what teams would offer for an injured Maggette who is in the first year of a five-year $50 million deal. The Warriors have engaged some talks with teams about Marco Belinelli, but seem less interested in moving Marco these days as he is starting to find a role in Nelson's system.
Toronto: The Raptors are shopping for upgrades and are looking for swing players and possibly a backup point guard. The Raptors have also been linked to rebounders and might be a team in the hunt for OKC's Chris Wilcox, although it seems Joe Smith might be the guy they are targeting. The Raptors are rumored to be shopping Anthony Parker who has struggled this year, as well as Andrea Bargnani, although sources close to the team say Bryan Colangelo is not ready to give up on "Bargs" just yet. Raptor sources admit he might be one of the few attractive chips the Raptors have to cash, but he appears to be a last-option type guy. The Raptors might be best suited offering up a Bargnani package and a first round draft pick to the Sacramento Kings for John Salmons. The Kings' swingman might be exactly what the Raptors are missing.
There are several other teams looking for deals including the Knicks and the Wizards but neither seems close to anything serious. The Orlando Magic may be buyers towards the deadline, but Magic GM Otis Smith seems more than happy with his roster so do not look for Orlando to get too crazy, despite reportedly having JJ Redick and Brian Cook on the market.

This is from Hoopsworld, so take everything with a grain of salt. Well if your going to have the salt, you might as well have a Corona with it.
 
The scenario that seems most appealing to the Kings would be swapping Brand Miller and Kenny Thomas to the Cavaliers for the ending contract of Wally Szczerbiak and impressive rookie J.J. Hickson.

That would be a nice result. Hickson has barely played for the Cavs, but that's understandable given their position, and he was impressive in the summer.
 
The Raptors are rumored to be shopping ...Andrea Bargnani, although sources close to the team say Bryan Colangelo is not ready to give up on "Bargs" just yet. Raptor sources admit he might be one of the few attractive chips the Raptors have to cash, but he appears to be a last-option type guy. The Raptors might be best suited offering up a Bargnani package and a first round draft pick to the Sacramento Kings for John Salmons. The Kings' swingman might be exactly what the Raptors are missing.

I kind of like this. I've always been a fan of Bargnani, but I don't see Toronto doing it.
 
I kind of like this. I've always been a fan of Bargnani, but I don't see Toronto doing it.

I don't think so either, but one never knows. Toronto tried to aquire Salmons before. It would be ironic if he ended up back with the team he snubbed to come to the Kings.
 
I'm more interested in the Golden State twosome. If they are really shopping both Anthony and Wright, I would love to get either player. Wright has looked very very good when he has gotten minutes this year. He plays good man D, blocks shots, can shoot facing the basket out to about 15-16 feet and has a couple of post moves. Worst case, I see him as another Kenyon Martin with better health. The problem is the Warriors are probably shopping one of their bad contracts with him. However, if Nelson wants to win now, swining a couple of our vets to GS would be very appealing.
 
Do I smell a three team deal going on between Char, Tor, and Sac?

You know, a deal where Tor gets Felton and Salmons.
Char gets Brad Miller + ?
Sac gets Gerald Wallace +?
 
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If we can turn Salmons into Bargs and 1st we have to do that.

We then take the Charlotte deal and run assuming we can include Beno/Felton.

NEw line-up:

C: Spencer Hawes, Andrea Bargnani, Shelden Williams
PF: Jason Thompson, Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas
SF: Gerald Wallace, Francisco Garcia, Donte Greene
SG: Kevin Martin, Bobby Jackson, Quincy Douby
PG: Raymond Felton, Bobby Brown
 
I'm more interested in the Golden State twosome. If they are really shopping both Anthony and Wright, I would love to get either player. Wright has looked very very good when he has gotten minutes this year. He plays good man D, blocks shots, can shoot facing the basket out to about 15-16 feet and has a couple of post moves. Worst case, I see him as another Kenyon Martin with better health. The problem is the Warriors are probably shopping one of their bad contracts with him. However, if Nelson wants to win now, swining a couple of our vets to GS would be very appealing.

Living in the Bay Area I get to see most of the warrior games. I really don't understand what Nelson is doing with Wright and Randolph. When they've gotten playing time, both have been fairly impressive. Neither has much of a traditional back to the basket game and both both are still pretty raw at this point (running the floor, lots of putbacks, somewhat similar to J. Thompson.) Wright seems to play a little bit more within himself and in control at this point, but his rebounding is fairly erratic. Randolph to me seems to have more of a dynamic game. With his length, Randolph is already an impressive shotblocker. His body has definitely started to fill out from even the summer league. The only thing that somewhat scares me about Randolph is a potential attitude problem. Not that I've really seen/heard anything specific, there's something about him that seems could be problematic in the future. However, if I was to pick one of the two at this point (based on potential), it would be Randolph.
 
Living in the Bay Area I get to see most of the warrior games. I really don't understand what Nelson is doing with Wright and Randolph. When they've gotten playing time, both have been fairly impressive. Neither has much of a traditional back to the basket game and both both are still pretty raw at this point (running the floor, lots of putbacks, somewhat similar to J. Thompson.) Wright seems to play a little bit more within himself and in control at this point, but his rebounding is fairly erratic. Randolph to me seems to have more of a dynamic game. With his length, Randolph is already an impressive shotblocker. His body has definitely started to fill out from even the summer league. The only thing that somewhat scares me about Randolph is a potential attitude problem. Not that I've really seen/heard anything specific, there's something about him that seems could be problematic in the future. However, if I was to pick one of the two at this point (based on potential), it would be Randolph.


I agree. I think the other difference between Wright and Randolph though is that Wright seems to have a higher basketball IQ. His rebounding may be erratic, but he's only 20. However, he plays good D, seems to get himself in good position on both sides of the court, etc. Randolph may have more upside, but I think it's more likely that Wright pans out. I think Wright will be a very good player and I agree that Nelson's rotations make no sense to me either. One of my best friends is a Warriors fan and is equally confused when we watch the games together.
 
I agree. I think the other difference between Wright and Randolph though is that Wright seems to have a higher basketball IQ. His rebounding may be erratic, but he's only 20. However, he plays good D, seems to get himself in good position on both sides of the court, etc. Randolph may have more upside, but I think it's more likely that Wright pans out. I think Wright will be a very good player and I agree that Nelson's rotations make no sense to me either. One of my best friends is a Warriors fan and is equally confused when we watch the games together.

I think that if Randolph has the right additude he can be a better player than Wright. That might be a big If. And to be honest about it, Wright should be playing better than Randolph considering that this is his second year. Look at the difference between Hawes first and second years. I can't think of a worst coach for young players than Nellie. Its plagued him throughout his career. Think Webber.

If he doesn't totally destroy a players confidence, he'll make you a better player. But most players can't wait to be traded to a new life.
 
I think that if Randolph has the right additude he can be a better player than Wright. That might be a big If. And to be honest about it, Wright should be playing better than Randolph considering that this is his second year. Look at the difference between Hawes first and second years. I can't think of a worst coach for young players than Nellie. Its plagued him throughout his career. Think Webber.

If he doesn't totally destroy a players confidence, he'll make you a better player. But most players can't wait to be traded to a new life.

Agreed.

Although, my concern with Randolph doesn't stem from him looking lost as a rookie. I agree with your comparison to Hawes development. However, Randolph also was a very raw player in college. He is an athelete who is trying to learn how to play basketball. Hawes was a very talented and smart basketball player who just needed to adjust to the NBA.
 
The ideal Nellyball player is an athletic 6'5" -6'9" swingman who is versatile enough to cover two to three positions both offensively and defensively. Stephen Jackson is Nelly's best here--he can play four positions (PG to PF), create matchup problems with his ability to slash and shoot well with range, irritates defensively, and can pass the ball profiicently for a player his size. Jamal Crawford can also swing between both guard positions without much effort at all either, and Maggette and Ellis are also swings who bring toughness on their own right.

All that being said, I know Nelly historically has troubles with young players--Marcus Williams, Marco Bellinelli, Patrick O'Bryant have all complained in public at one time or another with him--but that doesn't mean he's exactly stifling them. Bellinelli just had a 27 point game recently, and has some real flashes. Anthony Morrow, another shooter, had a 37 pt game out of nowhere. The problem is that those flashes aren't carried forward consistently because Nelly is just an addict at juggling his lineups, so there's no exact cohesion in the young players that step up. Biedrins wasn't even getting too many minutes last year, and his per minute stats in terms of rebounds and blocks were godlike. It's really the bigs that suffer through Nellyball--Randolph and Brandan Wright are mobile, but they're both cut from the lean and lanky cloth, and that almost reeks of redundancy. It's not that Randolph has played bad--he seems pretty good from what I can tell--but because of Nelly's versatile guard tendencies, as well as his lineup juggling, it's hard for Randolph to get minutes. Hence, he's gone.
 
If we can turn Salmons into Bargs and 1st we have to do that.

We then take the Charlotte deal and run assuming we can include Beno/Felton.

NEw line-up:

C: Spencer Hawes, Andrea Bargnani, Shelden Williams
PF: Jason Thompson, Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas
SF: Gerald Wallace, Francisco Garcia, Donte Greene
SG: Kevin Martin, Bobby Jackson, Quincy Douby
PG: Raymond Felton, Bobby Brown

how bout this

Sacramento Trades

Brad miller
beno udrih
john salmons
bobby brown
houston 1st round

Sacramento Recieves
Felton
Bargnani
Nathan Jawai
Gerald wallace
Toronto 1st round

Toronto trades
Bargnani
Nathan Jawai
1st round

receives
Brown
Salmons

Charlotte trades
Wallace
Felton

Receives
Miller
Udrih

Kings final line up

Felton/Jackson
Martin/Garcia
Wallace/greene
Thompson/Jawai/Moore
Hawes/Bargnani

felton is in his contract year and a wait and see
 
Arby's Roast Beef said:
All that being said, I know Nelly historically has troubles with young players--Marcus Williams, Marco Bellinelli, Patrick O'Bryant have all complained in public at one time or another with him--but that doesn't mean he's exactly stifling them.

Your right about bigs having the most trouble with him. I think we can also add Dunleavy, Barnes, and Harrington to that list. But your right, if your a multiposition player and, have a very secure ego, you can blossom in Nellie's system.

I've told this story before, but for those who didn't hear it the first time, it will give you a little insight to Nellie. This came from Richmond. There was a player that Nellie told to go into the game and use all of his fouls on a player on the other team that was abusing the Warriors. This was a young player who usually sat at the end of the bench. So this was his chance to impress. After playing for a period of time, he still hadn't fouled the other player once. Nellie yanked him.

The next day at practice, Nellie called him out in front of the whole team, and laid into him. He told the team that when he said to foul, he meant it. He told the player to give him 100 laps up and down the court while the team watched. Nellie was screaming at the player the whole time he ran. When the player finally finnished the 100 laps, totaly exhausted. Nellie told him to clean out his locker. He was cut from the team. That my friends, is cold.
 
Your right about bigs having the most trouble with him. I think we can also add Dunleavy, Barnes, and Harrington to that list. But your right, if your a multiposition player and, have a very secure ego, you can blossom in Nellie's system.

I've told this story before, but for those who didn't hear it the first time, it will give you a little insight to Nellie. This came from Richmond. There was a player that Nellie told to go into the game and use all of his fouls on a player on the other team that was abusing the Warriors. This was a young player who usually sat at the end of the bench. So this was his chance to impress. After playing for a period of time, he still hadn't fouled the other player once. Nellie yanked him.

The next day at practice, Nellie called him out in front of the whole team, and laid into him. He told the team that when he said to foul, he meant it. He told the player to give him 100 laps up and down the court while the team watched. Nellie was screaming at the player the whole time he ran. When the player finally finnished the 100 laps, totaly exhausted. Nellie told him to clean out his locker. He was cut from the team. That my friends, is cold.

thats gangsta.... cold, but oh so gangsta...


but if the raptors are willing to trade bargs for salmons, id be down 10 times out of 10... then trade miller for wallace... wow... that would be fun....
 
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now that i think about it, trading salmons/beno for bargs/kapono... then trade jackson for earl watson...

watson/brown
martin/garcia
kapono/greene
hawes/thompson
miller/bargs

once miller is gone bargs and hawes can start at pf/c....
 
now that i think about it, trading salmons/beno for bargs/kapono... then trade jackson for earl watson...

watson/brown
martin/garcia
kapono/greene
hawes/thompson
miller/bargs

once miller is gone bargs and hawes can start at pf/c....

what is this fascination of bargnani being a C or PF. the dude is meant for the 3 postion. he's also soft and shoots 3s. raef lafrentz anybody?
 
it would mostly be to get rid of salmons... bargs contract is up 2010 and kaponos is 2 years shorter than benos...

if bargs doesnt work out then we dont resign him... if he does work then we have some serious deph. especially if he can actually play small forward effectively...
 
Sacramento: The Sacramento Kings are also being aggressive in talks, more or less trying to establish value on Brad Miller. The Kings are also open to moving John Salmons, who may be the more impressive chip the Kings have to cash. The Kings are looking to re-tool this summer so ending deals matter more than talent, although sources close to the situation say picking up a young guy still on a rookie deal with upside might be enticing enough to get the Kings to move. The Kings are trying to package Brad Miller with Kenny Thomas, and were linked to the Miami HEAT's Shawn Marion although it seems there may not be enough interest from the HEAT to get that deal done. The scenario that seems most appealing to the Kings would be swapping Brand Miller and Kenny Thomas to the Cavaliers for the ending contract of Wally Szczerbiak and impressive rookie J.J. Hickson. The Cavs have maintained almost no interest in making a deal, but adding an experienced offensive threat in the frontcourt like Miller might be an interesting upgrade for the Cavs, if they decide to make a move. Moving J.J. Hickson might not be smart in the long term, even though Brad Miller might cement a NBA Finals run and give the Cavs much needed depth at the center position.


Given that this is hoopsworld, I wonder whether they actually have in fact heard something through sources, or whether they just happened to cruise on through here and cherry pick my Wally for Brad suggestion from a couple months ago.

Thing is, I concluded the biggest difficulty wiht the deal might not be talent, but ratehr the Cavs status as a massive luxury tax paying franchise -- they might want to hold onto Wally just to clear that salary next year so they could save, oh, something like $25 million dollars (Brad's salary next year x2 (because of the tax) as opposed to the $0 that will be owed Wally is they stand put. Cleveland has also gotten off to a far far betetr start than I, or I think almsot anyone, anticipated. And so where I was thinking they might be open to a Brad trade to help them get over the hump, they are playing like they might have enough to get it done even if they stand pat.
 
As far as Toronto -- that was something we talked about on here as well, with the major problem being that Salmons of course infamously backed out of a contract he had agreed to with the Raptors to sign with us, and said that God had told him to do it or some such. God gets blamed for a lot of crap of course, but would either he or they want to renew that relationship?

In any case, would be very interested in that first...unprotected mind you because Salmons is nearly a 20ppg scorer right now. But Bargnani is looking more and more like he's going to have to blossom just to reach Vladimir Radmanovic status. Classically soft jumpshooting Euro big man. In fact if I was another Euro looking to come over I'd be pissed at him for further cementing the stereotype as "weenie".
 
We can always trade with the Grizzlies too

Sacramento
Brad miller
John Salmons
2nd round pick

for

Darko Milicic
Mike Conley
Greg Buckner

you get to groom Conley as your PG if you want..
 
We can always trade with the Grizzlies too

Sacramento
Brad miller
John Salmons
2nd round pick

for

Darko Milicic
Mike Conley
Greg Buckner

you get to groom Conley as your PG if you want..


This isn't enough for Brad and John. IMO Conley is total garbage also.
 
Let's not assume, maybe Ralphy has something against Conley personally. Maybe he tried to get him involved in a big Ponzi scheme or hit on his undetrage daughter or something ;)

Your right, silly me. I actually assumed the was talking about basketball. :D
 
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