Trade proposal for KG, and why
- Thread starter Catalyst
- Start date
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Nah -- that would be just unrealistic by them, and frankly nobody will come close to those type of offers -- whoever gets KG would need to be srue they had enoguh left to contend, or there's no point.
Wiht Chicago's poor start, more than ever they have to be looking, but I almost wonder about their young guys being depreciated -- with Chandler gone, and noen of the other guys seeming to blossom into more than just good players, mgiht be hard. I floated a scary Orlando proposal that could pop up. The Lakers were always rumored to be interested, but not sure if they would be willing to give up Bynum now. In any case, KG would cost a ton, especially in young players and picks. But not 3 high level guys. 2 + candy (picks etc.) most likely. You look at the stars who have ben moved, and that's normally the type of deal -- Shaq for Butler & Odom + parts. Barlkey for Hornacek + forgot the guy's name + parts. McGrady for Francis & Mobley.
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KingsChick
Starter
Wouldn't trade Martin for anyone. not even KG.
Burrito06
Bench
I think KG is passed his prime. He's still a very good player but one that is on the decline.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
KG this season:
21.3pts (.510 FG% -- .830 FT%) 11.9rebs 3.4ast 1.7stl 1.9blk
I'm thinking we could all use more of such over the hill 30yr olds. And that's while playing for a depressingly inept franchise surrounded by middling talent.
Yep. And if something does happen, the exposure on his contract will make Webber's look like chump change.
They both make 20 million and nobody will be stupid enough to give KG even more. Nobody's giving a 32 year old PF 25 million a year for 3 years or whatever. His contract is one of the things that screwed up the wolves in the first place. Only GM who hasn't taken notice is Isiah Thomas.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
KGs contract is not a relevant concern. He's not only been a first ballot HOFer throughout his career, but he has been just about the most durable player since Karl Malone. Waiting for him to break down...or more apporpriately using it as an excuse...is well, just that. An excuse. He makes Bibby look like a wimp. Never even had the one injury that Vlade had back in his 20s. Ignroing the end of last season, when he was mysteriously sat for non-health reasons, the guy has missed 13 games in 11+ seasons. Exactly 3 games in the last 7+ seasons.
hammystyle
Starter
Chicago has more to offer. Lots of interesting young parts. The Lakers too. Maybe Minnesota would prefer Bynum and/or Odom. Both would probably be preferable destination spots for KG.
That said, maybe those teams don't want to make those trades. If they don't, then K-Mart just might be the best young guy that the T-Wolves could get. This is the first quasi-realistic KG trade I've seen.
I think you're slightly misreading what I've been trying to say.
Garnett is certainly all that and a bag of chips. And I've loudly cried for any way to bring him to the Kings. But at some point, and it's not going to be too much further down the road, years played are going to start catching up. That may not be a major consideration but it's something you'd be foolishly to totally disregard. At the point when you have to start considering years played, you would also take into account the amount of money remaining on his contract.
Are those major concerns at this moment in time? Of course not.
But is there a realistic chance the Timberwolves are going to take a trade offer at this point in time? I don't think so. And I'm not willing to give up the future potential for a window of opportunity that is inexorably starting to close.
But it's all just an exercise in "what if" anyway IMHO.
Burrito06
Bench
You said exactly what I was trying to point out. To much XBox last night.
hammystyle
Starter
He might be better right now, but is he more valuable? Deng is younger, bigger, and having an incredible season of his own. I haven't seen much of Bynum, but everyone is going nuts about him. The value on a near sure thing 7' 280lb center who's 18 years old is pretty high.
Even if Kevin is deemed more valuable those teams have more interesting pieces around the sides.
nbrans
All-Star
Actually, not to get too off topic, but I'd argue that Deng is the only reason Chicago hasn't been worse. He's looked incredible this year, a star on the rise.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Its all about positioning -- if we were a lottery team with few quality pieces, you don't trade Kevin Martin even for KG. KG isn't going to bring that sort of team a title, so you are spinning your wheels and losing youth.
But we are a team that under this proposal would be able to trot out Kevin Garnett and Ron Artest playing side by side -- that's a defensive forward combo for the ages -- and throw out 2 former 20pt scorers around them (Bibby, SAR) as well as some long versatile wing roleplayers in Salmons and Garcia. The team would not be perfect -- a legit center and maybe steady shooter off the bench would be handy. But damn -- that is instant contender stuff. Not sneak into the playoffs stuff. But a classic championship contender build -- defense, multiple star players, a 1, 2, and 3 option, and roleplayers at the edges. So if you can become an instant contender, with the oldest memeber of your contending core at 30? Yeah, you do it. That's why you play -- to win a title. You find a way, any way, to open up a legitimate window, you have to take it. Teams wait decades to get even one shot. The propsed trade would give us our second shot at the apple in 5 years. And multiple shots too. Probably at least 3, maybe even 4 or 5.
I definately believe in you have to take you shot when you have a team together and you can really see the teams that have been out of it for awhile and the newer ones on the rise with some good young talent. I just think getting KG will totally decimate a team in as far as what they have to give up to get him. Hopefully there will be enough good players around then to support him. The Wolves hold the cards and we'd have to probably offer Artest and another big name as well as some young talent and a pick or 2.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
First, my posts have been in repsonse to the above proposal, not to the idea of jsut getting KG regardless.
That said, I again think you overestimate the damage a bit. Highly unlikely another team, us included, is going to offer their franchise guy to get Minny's franchise guy. Youth? Picks? One or more guys from that nebulous pack of "near All-Stars", sure. But its highly unlikely a team gives up their guy to get KG -- that's treading water. And for both sides really. Why would Minny do that rather than just keep their career HOFer? No, if they trade him, it would almost have to be to signal a change in the franchise's direction. Whihc is of course where the initial poster here was coming from -- Kevin's sudden blossoming opens up possibilities, whether we keep him or not, that we may not have had before. There's the young star the Wolves would likely covet (at a position where they currently start Trenton Hassel to boot).
Catalyst
G-League
Out of curiousity, who would the Bulls offer? I've heard that team come up a lot in KG trade rumors, but I haven't heard who they would deal.
nbrans
All-Star
Well, the Marc Steins of the world have the Bulls offering PJ Brown's expiring contract, Tyrus Thomas, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon/Chris Duhon and New York's #1. Personally I think that's ridiculous and there's no way Chicago would give up that much, or even would need to give up that much. They'd be left utterly devoid of a bench, with no cap room and no draft pick until 2008 (since they don't technically have NY's pick, just the right to switch picks).
But if it happens it would probably be some combination of that group, maybe with some spare parts (Malik Allen, Sweetney) to make the salaries add up. I'd say something like: PJ Brown, Tyrus Thomas, Malik Allen, Sweetney and Chris Duhon. Or PJ Brown, Luol Deng, Malik Allen, Sweetney and Chris Duhon. I can't see them giving up NY's pick, and I can't see them giving up more than one player out of the Thomas/Deng/Gordon group.
But who knows. If they're desperate they could put together a pretty incredible offer.
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KingsFan93
G-League
One could get Gasol for less and keep Martin
Catalyst
G-League
That's a pretty good offer, I see why people think the Bulls would be the leading team to get KG.
Although the last time the Bulls traded their youth, it ended up biting them in the butt pretty badly. Brad Miller, Ron Artest and Elton Brand, gone.
It will be interesting to see if the Timberwolves actually start seriously listening to offers for KG.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yes, but one would then have Gasol, who is barely an All-Star, as opposed to KG, who is a HOFer.
If Gasol's out there at the deadline I sincerely hope we are in pursuit, but attempts to equate the two players are considerably off.
LilMissDiva
Bench
I am all in favor of bring KG here, but not for us to sweep the dust off the bench and being left with no one else. KG wants to play with quality and wants to win. We would just end up with another Minny team.
To be honest I don't think the gap between them is that big. Gasol is younger and taller. He led his team to a lot more wins last year and his supporting cast is still not that good.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
who would we trade for gasol? i doubt that they want thomas... they already had reef... what would they do with miller? are they trying to tank the season?
thelonegunman
Prospect
Since we're all being hypothetical here, this deal makes more sense for both sides. (yes, I realize it'll never happen but it does appear to work under terms of the CBA)
Sacramento Trade Breakdown Outgoing:
Brad Miller
Corliss Williamson
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Jason Hart
Kevin Martin
Sacramento Trade Breakdown Incoming:
Kevin Garnett
Mark Madsen
Rashad McCants
The T-Wolves are more likely to make this deal because they get a young, up and coming talent in Kevin Martin, an above average 7-foot center with good passing/shooting skills, a solid post player to fill PF void left by the departure of Garnett, and over 8M in expiring contracts with Williamson/Hart.
The Kings would be likely to make this deal because it gives them a chance to compete for a title in the right here and now. Sure, their depth would nill (some would argue it already is anyway) but you gotta give up something to get something. They'd give up depth for a solid starting 5, both offensively and defensively.
Garnett would provide them not only a scoring threat, but also the shot-blocking/rebounding/defensive front court presence they've been longing for. Couple that with Artest, Bibby, and Kenny Thomas' quickness ... and you might have something. McCants has been injury prone, but he would compete with Salmons/Garcia to fill the SG void left by Martin. Whichever two players don't start would be able to backup both the SF and SG positions.
Kings Lineup:
Kevin Garnett / Maurice Taylor
Kenny Thomas / Mark Madsen
Ron Artest / Francisco Garcia
John Salmons/ Rashad McCants
Mike Bibby/ Ronny Price
T-Wolves Lineup:
Brad Miller / Mark Blount
Shareef Abdur-Rahim / Eddie Griffin
Ricky Davis / Trenton Hassell / Marko Jaric
Kevin Martin / Randy Foye
Mike James / Troy Hudson
Sacramento Trade Breakdown Outgoing:
Brad Miller
Corliss Williamson
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Jason Hart
Kevin Martin
Sacramento Trade Breakdown Incoming:
Kevin Garnett
Mark Madsen
Rashad McCants
The T-Wolves are more likely to make this deal because they get a young, up and coming talent in Kevin Martin, an above average 7-foot center with good passing/shooting skills, a solid post player to fill PF void left by the departure of Garnett, and over 8M in expiring contracts with Williamson/Hart.
The Kings would be likely to make this deal because it gives them a chance to compete for a title in the right here and now. Sure, their depth would nill (some would argue it already is anyway) but you gotta give up something to get something. They'd give up depth for a solid starting 5, both offensively and defensively.
Garnett would provide them not only a scoring threat, but also the shot-blocking/rebounding/defensive front court presence they've been longing for. Couple that with Artest, Bibby, and Kenny Thomas' quickness ... and you might have something. McCants has been injury prone, but he would compete with Salmons/Garcia to fill the SG void left by Martin. Whichever two players don't start would be able to backup both the SF and SG positions.
Kings Lineup:
Kevin Garnett / Maurice Taylor
Kenny Thomas / Mark Madsen
Ron Artest / Francisco Garcia
John Salmons/ Rashad McCants
Mike Bibby/ Ronny Price
T-Wolves Lineup:
Brad Miller / Mark Blount
Shareef Abdur-Rahim / Eddie Griffin
Ricky Davis / Trenton Hassell / Marko Jaric
Kevin Martin / Randy Foye
Mike James / Troy Hudson
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