Trade Martin? (split from game thread)

[C Diddy]

I know its only been 2 games, but is it too early to start saying "Ewing Theory" in regards to Martin's injury?

For those that aren't familiar with the Ewing Theory:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1193711

 

[Prince_XY]

Trade Martin for great center with good defensive skills and one more nice draft pick and that would be just fine basketball team!

Good night Sacramento from Slovenia

What?

And then we'll end up with Beno starting at PG at the expense of losing a star-quality SG in Martin?

Not too fast in securing your starting job at PG at the expense of Martin...Beno...I mean One B.

I think we don't need to trade Martin at this point in time. I still believe the back court pairing of Martin and Evans will work wonders. Martin + Evans will be better most of the time than Evans + Udrih.

Besides, haven't anyone noticed how Hawes looked so pissed off ( deep breathing ) whenever Westphall just sits him on the bench? I think one of these days, Hawes will also wake-up and play the way centers ought to play. We only need a tall, mediocre, cheap defensive back-up center at this time and not another expensive star at the expense of Martin. It's too early to do the finishing touches of the rebuilding process.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I would love Bosh on this team, but he is playing outstanding basketball right now. I dont think trading for him is worth the risk of him leaving for nothing at the end of the year.

 

[tyrant]

i would just like to say that i'm happy to see that you all are starting to realize that martin isnt good enough; good enough to be a 1st or even 2nd option on a team. he's a 6th man at best. for that reason only is why we should keep him, but if the right piece comes along i want him out of here

 

[Prince_XY]

I should perhaps note at this point that continuing to refer to Kevin as "a 30pt scorer" is a bit silly -- yes, he scored 30pts...for 5 games! He is not, never has been, and never wil be, a 30pt a season scorer, and if he was this thread would not make much sense.

But to start the season we were clearly running a highly highly Kevincentric offense that saw him taking more than twice as many shots as any other King. And so yes, Kevin was scoring 30, but nobody else was scoring more than 11. And yes, part of that is of course because you can't have a Kevin Martin score 30 without it taking away from the other guys because he is just a scorer -- he can't create for others along the way. But now that guys are going to have 8 weeks operating under a different system, I see no possible way that everybody just returns to Kevin scores 30 while I wait for scraps mode. With Reke in particular there is just no way.

And that's actually the biggest argument for considering a trade -- not because Kevin is Kevin, Reke is a SG, or whatever, but because looking ahead in your mind's eye it is almost impossible to see Reke playing at his best (let's call Utah his best) and Kevin playing at his best (let's call the 30pts a game streak his best) happening at the same time. If we run the Kevin gets 30 offense, everybody, inclkuding Reke, is knocked back into passivity. If Reke is running wild, he's not going to stop and get the ball to Kevin in his spots -- to that degree at least the Reke as non-PG people are right. He creates for teammates, his drive and kick game is emerging, but its not as if he's coming down he floor looking to get the ball to so and so just right in so and so's favorite spot, or just wanting to hand the ball off and stand around while Kevin does his thing. Just not his game. Its would be madness to intentionally dump a star and choose to only have one star instead of two...unless you can look at playing styles and say the two stars aren't really complimentary and maybe you can bring back a better fit in trade.

And so Kevin comes back....he's not going to average 30. And the risk is maybe it doesn't work. Maybe he only averages 20 and he and Reke struggle to both be at the top of their games together. Oil and water. I suspect that we are going to have a chance to find out, because Geoff Petrie for a long long time now has been "patient" to the point of somnalence on these issues. One of the reasons the whole genius thing got so ridiculous -- he waited too long on nearly every piece he had, waiting and waitng and waiting to see how it worked long after it was obvious it would not work and watching his assets depreciate across the board before selling low. He waited too long with Peja, with Bibby, with Ron, with Brad. Always wanting to wait a little longer and "evaluate" and in the process the rest of the league got to "evaluate" too and didn't like what they saw. If Kevin and Reke do not work together, it could be the same thing again. Rather than selling high, you end up "evaluating" and trying to sell a 20ppg asset rather than a 30ppg asset. You have to be intuitive and ahead of the game rather than reactive and pedantically wait until its obvious to everyone else. What was Bill Walsh's thing? "Better to trade a guy a year too early than to trade him a year too late?"

I think you are right that continuing to refer to Kevin as "a 30pt scorer" is a bit silly now. Martin won't be having that much 30-point game, especially with the impending adjustment on the offensive scheme that will obviously come when Martin returns. At some nights it will be Martin and a lot of nights it wil be Evans. I have a feeling that the Kevincentric offense we used during the first few games will be modified into a mixed Kevin-Evanscentric offense. I don't think the Westphall coaching team is too dumb not to see the obvious need to change the offensive scheme. And I think it will work out just fine. We've seen Martin before as a very effective scorer when he was not yet the focal point of the Kings offense. I think Martin can still pile up his points even when Evans demands the ball much in his hands in offense. And I don't see any problem with Martin accepting a change in scheme. In one of the interviews, he said he thinks Evans will lead the Kings - as if, admitting Evans will be the guy, and not him in the near future.

 

[hammystyle]

Let's give the Martin/Evans backcourt more than a few games to see if they click shall we?

I can't recall the last time we got back to back wins either but let's not go overboard and anointthe Beno/Evans backcourt as anything better than decent. As good as the Kings had played, there were still too many one on one isolations, ball not moving to the weak side, and ball movement (while much improved) is still nowhere near that of an elite team. The difference is that now we are talented enough to win despite the ugly offense, not because of it. The complete offensive meltdown against Utah's tight defense late in the game should serve as a cautionary tale.

Beno is feeding off of Evans' greatness, not the other way around. Put Rashard McCant, Tony Allen, or other decent combo guard next to Evans and they'll break out too. The point is, Beno is not the long term solution. KMart may not be either but a Kmart/Evans backcourt has the potential to be great and I want to give them a chance to grow together.

If a team gives us an elite big man still in his prime for Martin, then it's a different story. But unless that happens, we absolutely need to keep Martin.

The thing about the Martin/Evans backcourt is just that it seemed like an awkward fit even before the season started. They don't compliment each other. Even though you can't call five games together and two games apart conclusive it appears those fears were somewhat justified. That's not a knock on Martin, its just trying to build the best team.

Now if you asked me the perfect type of guard to complement Evans, it would be a 6'2-4" combo guard who is a dynamite defender against PG's, can handle the ball a bit, and is a good shooter. Beno hits 3 out of 4 on that...but there are tons of guys out there like that and they are undervalued because they're not "true" points. That's the beauty of Tyreke. Say we trade Martin for salary relief, a solid big, and top 15 pick that nets you Avery Bradley or Willie Warren. Both of those guys are great players that don't fit perfectly in the NBA because of their size/skillset. But they could be stars next to Tyreke because he covers their weaknesses.

 

[asakkings]

Roy Hibber and TJ Ford for Kmart works in terms of salary. I dont know if it will happen but would be an awesome trade.

 

[apollo916]

If theres anyway we can get a Center ide pull the trigger, Kevin can score but that doesnt mean he is the best player for this team, He holds the ball too much, He mite shoot a 3 or jumpshot, but the team doesnt feed off his energy. With Martin out, we go on more runs, and find easy open looks, as we should. F MARTIN, Ugly shot, don't care if it goes in, I dont even use him when I choose the Kings in 2K10. blah blah blah anyways

 

[beb0p]

The thing about the Martin/Evans backcourt is just that it seemed like an awkward fit even before the season started. They don't compliment each other. Even though you can't call five games together and two games apart conclusive it appears those fears were somewhat justified. That's not a knock on Martin, its just trying to build the best team.

Now if you asked me the perfect type of guard to complement Evans, it would be a 6'2-4" combo guard who is a dynamite defender against PG's, can handle the ball a bit, and is a good shooter. Beno hits 3 out of 4 on that...but there are tons of guys out there like that and they are undervalued because they're not "true" points. That's the beauty of Tyreke. Say we trade Martin for salary relief, a solid big, and top 15 pick that nets you Avery Bradley or Willie Warren. Both of those guys are great players that don't fit perfectly in the NBA because of their size/skillset. But they could be stars next to Tyreke because he covers their weaknesses.

You're right there are questions regarding how Evans and Martin fit together. But my solution (should Martin is not the right fit) is not to partner Evans with another combo guard. Say we draft Willie Warren, a 6-3 guard. Teams are going to guard Warren with their PGs and Evans with their SGs. It essentially diminishes the advantage of having a big bad PG. I do not like Evans going against 6'-6, 6'-7 guys night in and night out.

Say what you want about Martin, but his presence forces teams to guard him with SGs and therefore allows Evans to beat up their PGs. I reckon sometimes PGs can have some success guarding Martin but it is by no way a strategy that can be used repeatedly; and when the strategy fails it can fail castaraphically (like when Martin lit up CJ Watson for 50 pts last season).

 

[JB_kings]

i would just like to say that i'm happy to see that you all are starting to realize that martin isnt good enough; good enough to be a 1st or even 2nd option on a team. he's a 6th man at best. for that reason only is why we should keep him, but if the right piece comes along i want him out of here

I think you missed the spirit of the topic by a long shot. I only read that you think that Kevin was at best a 6th man. Nobody else said that. Clearly that is not a sound assesment. It's trying to trade a valuable player that is redundant to improve a postion at which the team is weak or thin.

You can make a case about his durability, weak defense and other nit picks in his game. But he is a scorer that doesn't have to take a huge amount of shots to be an effective high scorer. He also gets to the free throw line at rate among the best in the league. He has value beyond what you describe. Maybe he isn't another Kobe, but he isn't a 6th man either.

I see a lot of fans want to toss a very good player because they aren't HOF great.

 

[hammystyle]

You're right there are questions regarding how Evans and Martin fit together. But my solution (should Martin is not the right fit) is not to partner Evans with another combo guard. Say we draft Willie Warren, a 6-3 guard. Teams are going to guard Warren with their PGs and Evans with their SGs. It essentially diminishes the advantage of having a big bad PG. I do not like Evans going against 6'-6, 6'-7 guys night in and night out.

Say what you want about Martin, but his presence forces teams to guard him with SGs and therefore allows Evans to beat up their PGs. I reckon sometimes PGs can have some success guarding Martin but it is by no way a strategy that can be used repeatedly; and when the strategy fails it can fail castaraphically (like when Martin lit up CJ Watson for 50 pts last season).

As much as Tyreke can phsyically dominate Pg's...i'm not sure if that's his best defensive alignment for 40 minutes. If he's guarding off the ball, his wingspan and quickness could turn him into one of the best defenders in the game. Plus I think he's big and bad enough to beat up on even the best defending two's. He's got the ability to be unguardable.

So if Tyreke is guarding the SG, and initiating the offense, then there's the potential for your off guard to save energy on offense...and can now put more effort into guarding the other teams PG. Ideally you'd have an elite defender who can wreck shop on the other team's O.

Does that argument hold water? I haven't seen the games but does it seem as though Beno can expend more energy on D?

 

[nickmcclure]

Here's a concept, let's keep Martin seeing as how he is the best player on the team. Does everyone really think he's to fault with our previous losses? I think our two recent wins have been from players stepping up. I wanna see this team with a healthy cisco and martin before we jump to conclusions. And btw Tyreke was listed as the 2 guard the last two games but he's arguably playing point on more possessions than Beno.

 

[beb0p]

As much as Tyreke can phsyically dominate Pg's...i'm not sure if that's his best defensive alignment for 40 minutes. If he's guarding off the ball, his wingspan and quickness could turn him into one of the best defenders in the game. Plus I think he's big and bad enough to beat up on even the best defending two's. He's got the ability to be unguardable.

So if Tyreke is guarding the SG, and initiating the offense, then there's the potential for your off guard to save energy on offense...and can now put more effort into guarding the other teams PG. Ideally you'd have an elite defender who can wreck shop on the other team's O.

Does that argument hold water? I haven't seen the games but does it seem as though Beno can expend more energy on D?

If Evans cannot guard PGs then perhaps, but it'll be more out of necessity than out of good strategy.

The Kings want their 6 foot 5, 215 pounds Bad M*F* to beat up on the small PG guards, not just offensively but defensively as well. I say let Evans show what he can do defensively before we try any cutsy strategy. I think he's been looking pretty good so far on the defensive side of the ball.

As for Martin, he is a keeper unless someone trade us a young all-star, or a top 5 draft pick + take away our bad contracts. If we have some young promising SGs waiting for an opening then maybe trading Martin for expiring + role player is a good move. But who takes over for Martin? Beno? Udoka? Garcia? Hell no!! I like Garcia but he can't replace Kevin Martin.

 

[M_Barragan]

closer to 225 pounds lol

 

[bajaden]

you just wont give up with this bosh thing... do you think that he would actually come here or do you mean trade for him this season and pray that we can re-sign him?

I think if you read my post again, you'll see it ends with, of course we'll have to resign him. If we could aquire him in a trade this season, then we aquire his Bird rights. That does give us some leverage. We would at least be able to offer more than anyone else. The other advantage of aquiring him this season would be that he would have a chance to play here and get to know all the players. Develop some chemistry if you will.

That aside, I don't recall overmentioning Bosh. I may have brought him up on some occasion, but I've never been overly passionate about it. Actually, I think the only way to get our foot in the door with him, would be to trade for him. Ahhhh, I'm picturing Bosh and Thompson on the floor together. Wall driving into the defense and dishing to Casspi and Evans on the perimiter. Yeah! In my dream we win the lottery and draft Wall too. Its my dream and I can do whatever I want...

 

[hammystyle]

If Evans cannot guard PGs then perhaps, but it'll be more out of necessity than out of good strategy.

The Kings want their 6 foot 5, 215 pounds Bad M*F* to beat up on the small PG guards, not just offensively but defensively as well. I say let Evans show what he can do defensively before we try any cutsy strategy. I think he's been looking pretty good so far on the defensive side of the ball.

As for Martin, he is a keeper unless someone trade us a young all-star, or a top 5 draft pick + take away our bad contracts. If we have some young promising SGs waiting for an opening then maybe trading Martin for expiring + role player is a good move. But who takes over for Martin? Beno? Udoka? Garcia? Hell no!! I like Garcia but he can't replace Kevin Martin.

There's nothing cutesy about it. Its a straightforward strategy to have your best defensive team out there. I think Tyreke potentially could cause major defensive problems for most PG's during stretches of the game...but its just a lot to ask to have a 220 lb man mark the Tony Parkers and Chris Pauls AND initiate the offense for 40 minutes a game.

Magic Johnson was obviously the best big PG ever. The other guards he played with were Norm Nixon 6'2" 170 lb PG, Michael Cooper 6' 5" 170 lb combo guard/defensive wizard, and Byron Scott 6' 3" 195 pound SG who could guard PG's.

 

[bajaden]

I have noticed the ball movement improve without K Mart. He tends to be the ball stopper, looking to score on almost every possession, and he really has a hard time giving up the ball to a guy posting up, such as Hawes. The biggest difference outside ball movement is also the defense. It's much better with Evans on the SG, and Omri at the 3 than with Martin on the off guard and Evans at point.

I wouldn't go so far as to call Martin a ball stopper, but I do see your point. One of Martin's weaknesses is his passing. It has impoved over the years, but he's nowhere near the passer of any of the other starters. There's also another thing in play. When you have such a young team, and such a scorer as Martin, I think there's a tendecy for the youngsters to become spectators. Maybe start to rely on Martin too much. As a result, the ball stops with him. Not totally his fault, but the result is the same.

Without Martin the team knows everyone has to help pick up the slack. The result is better spacing and better ball movement. Which also makes the team harder to defend. More fun to watch too..

 

[bajaden]

Let's give the Martin/Evans backcourt more than a few games to see if they click shall we?

I can't recall the last time we got back to back wins either but let's not go overboard and anointthe Beno/Evans backcourt as anything better than decent. As good as the Kings had played, there were still too many one on one isolations, ball not moving to the weak side, and ball movement (while much improved) is still nowhere near that of an elite team. The difference is that now we are talented enough to win despite the ugly offense, not because of it. The complete offensive meltdown against Utah's tight defense late in the game should serve as a cautionary tale.

Beno is feeding off of Evans' greatness, not the other way around. Put Rashard McCant, Tony Allen, or other decent combo guard next to Evans and they'll break out too. The point is, Beno is not the long term solution. KMart may not be either but a Kmart/Evans backcourt has the potential to be great and I want to give them a chance to grow together.

If a team gives us an elite big man still in his prime for Martin, then it's a different story. But unless that happens, we absolutely need to keep Martin.

I think a part of what Bricky was saying, aside from Petire sleepwalking his way through this period, is that Perhaps, Evans and Martin don't compliment each other. I'm not saying I necessarily agree, but there could be an element of truth there. Could be the reason that Beno and Evans play well together is that they do compliment each other. Beno may not be an all star in the future. But sometimes the total is better than the sum of the parts. Put another way, and to steal Brickys phrase. Evans and Martin might = oil and water. And, Evans and Beno might = Bacon and Eggs. They taste different, but they go together. Not saying its true. But, and I can't resist. Its food for thought...

 

[Bricklayer]

As for Martin, he is a keeper unless someone trade us a young all-star, or a top 5 draft pick + take away our bad contracts. If we have some young promising SGs waiting for an opening then maybe trading Martin for expiring + role player is a good move. But who takes over for Martin? Beno? Udoka? Garcia? Hell no!! I like Garcia but he can't replace Kevin Martin.

Garcia doesn't have to -- its the Derek Fisher idea. Derek Fisher isn't the best PG in the league. Derek Fisher isn't in the top 30 in all liklihood. But what he does is complement Kobe perfectly. And the team wins or loses with Kobe, not whoever you stick at PG next to him.

Same thing with Evans in all liklihood. In order to get the most out of Evans, in order to let him play his game, these would be the traits I would look for out of his 2-guard:

1) defends well
2) can shoot the three
3) good ballhandler/assistman

The first to create synergy with Reke's defense and create havoc (get it? ha! I kill myself) for the opponent. The second to be able to take advantage of Reke's penetrating and kicking out, and the third to help Reke, who is not the purest of points, break pressure + run the team.

Now of those three, the only one Kevin fits is the second. Cisco fits all three. And Keivn is obviously the better player. But is he the better fit? No, I don't think so. And its hard to see how he and Reke are both going to play their games wihtout it turning into an A.I./Melo type situation where you just have two guys basically taking turns, rather than actually playng off each other.

And this is not a dump Kevin argument. This is a turn Kevin into a better fitting piece argument. A building a cohesive team, not a fantasy team argument. If you move Kevin you have to get back something good. But more than that, you have to get back something that fits.

 

[tyrant]

i was expressing my opinion on him

 

[bajaden]

Here's a concept, let's keep Martin seeing as how he is the best player on the team. Does everyone really think he's to fault with our previous losses? I think our two recent wins have been from players stepping up. I wanna see this team with a healthy cisco and martin before we jump to conclusions. And btw Tyreke was listed as the 2 guard the last two games but he's arguably playing point on more possessions than Beno.

I don't think its a matter of pointing fingers and delegating fault. Sometimes, for better or worse, some things just fit together better, and then the result is better. When Martins on the floor, he's the focus of the other teams defense. Especially on the perimiter. If the ball movement stops with him, then we suddenly get easier to guard. Without him on the floor, at least so far, there's been better ball movement, and for whatever reason, better spacing. And now were harder to defend.

That doesn't mean that Martin couldn't adapt his game to fit. But he would probably have to sacrifice some of his scoring.

 

[beb0p]

I think a part of what Bricky was saying, aside from Petire sleepwalking his way through this period, is that Perhaps, Evans and Martin don't compliment each other. I'm not saying I necessarily agree, but there could be an element of truth there. Could be the reason that Beno and Evans play well together is that they do compliment each other. Beno may not be an all star in the future. But sometimes the total is better than the sum of the parts. Put another way, and to steal Brickys phrase. Evans and Martin might = oil and water. And, Evans and Beno might = Bacon and Eggs. They taste different, but they go together. Not saying its true. But, and I can't resist. Its food for thought...

I understood Brick's point. And I've said it's a valid point. But there is no way anyone knows the answer just a few games into the season.

And even if Martin and Evans don't initially compliment each other, I believe good players can adapt and adjust. Not saying it's going to happen with Martin and Evans but you have to at least give them a shot at it.

 

[beb0p]

Garcia doesn't have to -- its the Derek Fisher idea. Derek Fisher isn't the best PG in the league. Derek Fisher isn't in the top 30 in all liklihood. But what he does is complement Kobe perfectly. And the team wins or loses with Kobe, not whoever you stick at PG next to him.

Same thing with Evans in all liklihood. In order to get the most out of Evans, in order to let him play his game, these would be the traits I would look for out of his 2-guard:

1) defends well
2) can shoot the three
3) good ballhandler/assistman

The first to create synergy with Reke's defense and create havoc (get it? ha! I kill myself) for the opponent. The second to be able to take advantage of Reke's penetrating and kicking out, and the third to help Reke, who is not the purest of points, break pressure + run the team.

Now of those three, the only one Kevin fits is the second. Cisco fits all three. And Keivn is obviously the better player. But is he the better fit? No, I don't think so. And its hard to see how he and Reke are both going to play their games wihtout it turning into an A.I./Melo type situation where you just have two guys basically taking turns, rather than actually playng off each other.

And this is not a dump Kevin argument. This is a turn Kevin into a better fitting piece argument. A building a cohesive team, not a fantasy team argument. If you move Kevin you have to get back something good. But more than that, you have to get back something that fits.

God knows I am no fan of Derek Fisher. But having watched Fisher played many times against the Kings, it's no comparison - Fisher is a better player than Beno or Garcia. Better IQ. Better decision maker. Better leadership. More respect from his peers. Better shooter in clutch situation.

Fisher is a good fit, sure. But Chucky Atkins was a bad fit. My point is, you can't just stick anyone next to Kobe Bryant. And you can't just stick anyone next to Evans. Fisher is special, a player who I believe is much better than his stats indicates. Beno, on the other hand, is just Beno. He may be the right fit but I honestly doubt it. Now, if he plays this well against the Lakers, Mavs, and Celtics and we beat them then I'll be glad to change my mind. Until then, I'm not buying this Beno resurgency.

Garcia is an interesting case because he truly does a lot of things well (though nothing great). I do think Garcia's game compliments Evans but it does not mean Martain is expandable. You put Garica in the same lineup as Evans and Martin and see how the three of them fit. All along I think the ideal lineup is: Evans, Martin, Garcia, JT, and Hawes. The point is Garcia and Martin is not mutally exclusive.

There is always a danger in trading away a proven scorer, even one who does nothing but scores. I live in SF and have a frontrow seat of the Warrior's meltdown after they traded away JRich. JRich was in fact traded for a pretty good package that includes the #8 pick in a deep draft, and the Warriors had plenty of replacement for JRich, or so they thought. Sometimes you don't know what you're missing until it's gone. Again, my point is give the guys a full season to jell before we make any rash decision.

 

[kupman]

And its hard to see how he and Reke are both going to play their games wihtout it turning into an A.I./Melo type situation where you just have two guys basically taking turns, rather than actually playng off each other.

I was actually thinking of something closer to home. It could be Kmart and Salmons all over again. Take turns, make no one else better, lose nearly all of your games.

 

[Entity]

I actually don't buy into the fact that Reke and Kevin can't play together. look at the Atlanta game or the New Orleans game.
vs. Atl
Martin 29pts
Evans 15 pts (would have had more but missed 14 shots 7-21)
Thompson 22pts
Nocioni 14pts
Udrih 14pts
Hawes 6pts
Casspi 5pts

New Orleans
Evans 22
Martin 20
Nocioni 16
Thompson 9
May 7
rest 5 or under

the only reason Evans wasn't scoring as many points when Martin was in was because of shooting %

In the 3 games Evans has scored over 20 he shot 46% or better. In the 4 games he didn't score 20 he shot 33% or under.

It had NOTHING to do with Martin being there. Reke just wasn't hitting his shots. Surley you guys remember the countless number of missed layups he had in the first 4 games.

Tyreke had 15 attempts in each of the last 2 games.

in the previous 5 games he had attempts of 21,16,13,9, and 4. those last 2 came in games he got less than 25 min.


In closing. you give me Martin and Garcia back and give me this lineup

Evans
Martin
Garcia
Thompson
Hawes

Bench in order of appearance

Beno
Casspi
Greene

Then please Trade Noc, K9, May for any SERVICABLE big i don't care if the contract goes to 2020. Just somebody Hell I'd take Justin Williams right now.

 

[beb0p]

There's nothing cutesy about it. Its a straightforward strategy to have your best defensive team out there. I think Tyreke potentially could cause major defensive problems for most PG's during stretches of the game...but its just a lot to ask to have a 220 lb man mark the Tony Parkers and Chris Pauls AND initiate the offense for 40 minutes a game.

Magic Johnson was obviously the best big PG ever. The other guards he played with were Norm Nixon 6'2" 170 lb PG, Michael Cooper 6' 5" 170 lb combo guard/defensive wizard, and Byron Scott 6' 3" 195 pound SG who could guard PG's.

Magic could not guard the small guys to save his life. The Lakers had to partner Magic with a small guard because they had to, not because they wanted to. If Magic could guard the smaller guys you betcha the Lakers would have gone with a big 6'-6 or taller SG next to him. Even Pat Riley said he envisioned a team of five guys all 6'-9 or taller running up and down the floor as his ultimate bball team. Nobody goes small on purpose unless you're Nellie or D'Antoni.

One of the reasons Kings drafted Evans is because he can guard the smaller guys. The coaches feel like they don't have to hide him on defense the way Lakers had to hide Magic. Even Westphal said he think Evans can guard PGs. So let Evans guard the PGs. If your PG can guard other PGs, there is no problem here.

I'm glad to say that most NBA teams don't have Tony Parker or Chris Paul. I don't see Evans as having any major issue guarding the likes of Andre Miller, Chauncy Billups, Mike Bibby, etc. I don't expect him to shut them down but Evans should be able to make scoring tough on those guys. When he does encounter Chris Paul, it's going to be a team effort to stop him. But the beauty of having Evans is that he'll punish Paul the other way.

 

[allrightythen]

In closing. you give me Martin and Garcia back and give me this lineup

Evans
Martin
Garcia
Thompson
Hawes

Bench in order of appearance

Beno
Casspi
Greene

Then please Trade Noc, K9, May for any SERVICABLE big i don't care if the contract goes to 2020. Just somebody Hell I'd take Justin Williams right now.

I think is a really interesting idea that we should definitely give a chance before trading away Martin. This year's draft could potentially have quite a few solid defensive-minded big men and between the assets on the team and the cap space we'll have next year I think netting that defensive big-man shouldn't be impossible.

 

[bajaden]

I understood Brick's point. And I've said it's a valid point. But there is no way anyone knows the answer just a few games into the season.

And even if Martin and Evans don't initially compliment each other, I believe good players can adapt and adjust. Not saying it's going to happen with Martin and Evans but you have to at least give them a shot at it.

I don't have a problem with your senario. I think its possible for Martin to adjust his game where it fits better with all the other pieces. And maybe not. We'll have to wait and see. Has anyone thought what the thinking might be if for some strange reason this young team went on a tear and lets say was over 500 when Martin's ready to come back. Would that change the Kings outlook? Yeah, I know thats not likely to happen. But what if?

 

[Kings Faithful]

What about bringing Martin off the bench? I couldn't disagree more with Martin being at best a 6th man, but it might not be such a bad idea to try it out on this team. Think Manu Ginobli on the Spurs... I've also noticed in Martin's few games off the bench in the last few years were some of his best games... meaning his production doesn't seem to suffer all that much unlike some players (cough John Salmons cough). Actually, thinking about it, I like Westphals philosophy right now of no real set in stone rotations. We play one guy one night, and another guy a different night... whatever wins the game. I think I'll just trust Westphal to sort it all out.

 

[Bricklayer]

In closing. you give me Martin and Garcia back and give me this lineup

Evans
Martin
Garcia
Thompson
Hawes

Bench in order of appearance

Beno
Casspi
Greene

Now, I cut out the reasoning you put into that, but reasoning or not, here is what you ended up with: take a 17 win team, the softest team in the league, the worst defending team in the league. Do NOTHING with it, but add our two rookies and make them have to carry the entire soft sad, scrawny 17 win non-rebounding non-defending bunch of them.

You are leaving a pretty exciting kid out on an island with a bunch of proven pushovers and saying "make it work!"