Trade Bagley?

[joemama]

Maybe you just need to get this out of your system, but the post you're responding to was addressing only one thing the previous poster said. That Bagley isn't interested in rebounding.

Hope I saved you some research time.

Thanks

Some of these stats are eye-opening (I hope) such as 58.5% free throw.

 

[SacTownKid]

Marvin Bagley has a 43.1 FG percentage
Richaun Holmes has a 69.7 FG percentage, literally one of the most efficient in the entire NBA!

Marvin Balgey is a pathetic 58.5% from the free throw stripe (Holmes 82.8%).

Holmes averges more points and assists per game. More than TWICE as many assists.

Holmes avg 1.5 blocks per game, Bagley 0.6.

Holmes a steal a game, Bagley 0.3.

So Holmes is better at FG, FT, points, blocks, steals, assists, but not as good of a rebounder, ok, good to know.

I don't think anyone can argue that Holmes isn't a more impactful player in Waltons system and a better fit for the team right now for sure.

 

[ppine]

Get real. Were talking about average physical NBA type players. Would you rather have Haliburton with average athleticism and high skills/IQ or Bagley with greater athleticism and low skills IQ?

If you think Haliburton has average athleticism you are in fantasy land.
Bagley is far from low bball skills and low IQ.

 

[Gguod]

Bagley is far from low bball skills and low IQ.

For what its worth, in reality Bagley is one of the top examples of great athetisism and low basketball IQ/basketball skill in the Nba.

 

[Joshoua]

Hahaha this is funny does the guy whose saying Bagley is doing better than holmes know that’s an insult to Bagley. He should be better than holmes who isn’t even a top 5 offensive option on the team

 

[ESP47]

That was one of the better games I've seen from Bagley yesterday. Looked better than he has been on both sides of the ball.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I think it is ok to trade Bagley at his all time low. He is who we see on the floor. He is not better now than he was 3 years ago. He is a malcontent and his dad is a distraction.

I am sure we will look back in 2-3 years and say "gosh look at Bagley balling out for some other team" but I don't care. Fear of that scenario can't paralyze us now

That's crazy imo. Sorry

 

[ppine]

Hahaha this is funny does the guy whose saying Bagley is doing better than holmes know that’s an insult to Bagley. He should be better than holmes who isn’t even a top 5 offensive option on the team

Holmes leads the NBA in scoring percentage. He frequently is in double figures. Last night he was second on the team in scoring, and that is not unusual.

 

[Section 101]

If you think Haliburton has average athleticism you are in fantasy land.
Bagley is far from low bball skills and low IQ.

So for an nba player what is he above average athetically?

 

[dude12]

That was one of the better games I've seen from Bagley yesterday. Looked better than he has been on both sides of the ball.

He’s improving on things. Ive been big on him but I don’t think he’s going to be a star. I also think the Kings haven’t figured out how to use him until maybe recently. He’s moving the ball now and they are trying to dump the ball into him in the post. He’s shooting over 40% from 3 in like the last 5 games I think.

I think it’s imperative for Sac to play him 28-32 minutes a game to know if They want to keep him or not and if he can develop into more. He’s only 21.

 

[ESP47]

He’s improving on things. Ive been big on him but I don’t think he’s going to be a star. I also think the Kings haven’t figured out how to use him until maybe recently. He’s moving the ball now and they are trying to dump the ball into him in the post. He’s shooting over 40% from 3 in like the last 5 games I think.

I think it’s imperative for Sac to play him 28-32 minutes a game to know if They want to keep him or not and if he can develop into more. He’s only 21.

I'm totally ok with them playing him big minutes this season. They get to see what they have and they get the higher draft pick.

I think the Kings really need a player that's a step ahead of Fox. I don't see a real viable playoff team with this squad, even if Haliburton turned out to be Doug Christie with elite efficiency.

 

[Gguod]

I'm totally ok with them playing him big minutes this season. They get to see what they have and they get the higher draft pick.

I think the Kings really need a player that's a step ahead of Fox. I don't see a real viable playoff team with this squad, even if Haliburton turned out to be Doug Christie with elite efficiency.

Thats exactly the truth. This team isnt going to be a major playoff force with any minor tweaks. This team needs a star level player added to this group. This current gruop is destined to fight for the 8-12th seed. Thats awfull and it wont net us the star level player we need. I would love a press conference with Monte and Luke saying that this year is dedicated for youngster developement and getting that top 3 draft pick

 

[Gguod]

Bagley is a horrible defender as a big man, one of the worst in the league. Potential or not that has been the case for him since college and its unfair to him to expect anything more than that.

In 300 posessions that Bagley has played center, Kings have allowed 130points per 100 posessions and a horrible 76 fg% at the rim (the league average is about 60%..)

So, Bagley will never be a center that contributes to winning. He doesnt offer rim protection/help defense at 4 and his peremiter defense is way below average for a wing. These are the type of stats/facts that are very hard to overcome if the object is to become a net positive player. And we are only talking about becoming a net positive contributer, becoming a high impact player is a whole another case and statistically it looks extremely improbable

 

[dude12]

Marvin Bagley over his first seven games:

24.7 mins
10.9 points
8.1 rebounds
35% FG, 27% 3P

Marvin Bagley over his last seven games:

27.5 mins
16.6 points
7.4 rebounds
58% FG, 42% 3P


Found this on Twitter. Also an improving defense although he still has a ways to go to be considered not a liability but as Doug Christie pointed out, it’s fixable.

 

[macadocious]

This passes the eye test too. It's still not great, but it's improving. If people here can't acknowledge and hopefully be encouraged by this, they aren't fans, they are people looking to *****.

 

[Livinthedream]

The goal posts got moved. At the start of this season, everyone here would have agreed that if Marvin played every game to this point, visibly improved on defense from game to game and shot 36% from 3, that the 1st 15 games were a success.

 

[whozit]

The goal posts got moved. At the start of this season, everyone here would have agreed that if Marvin played every game to this point, visibly improved on defense from game to game and shot 36% from 3, that the 1st 15 games were a success.

Looking quickly, it looks like he is 0.1% away from that. To me, that is success, especially with him trending up from the start.

 

[hrdboild]

It looks like the game is slowing down for him. He extended his range to the NBA three point line and that was probably the biggest priority, especially if he's going to be playing most of his minutes at PF next to non-shooting bigs. He's also a better fit defensively at PF right now though some teams are just poor matchups for us. New Orleans has two bruisers in their frontcourt so he got pushed around and the Clippers play small so he ended up chasing Kawhi and Paul George all over the floor. Nether are ideal scenarios and they highlight the problem we need to solve which is who Bagley is going to guard. He moves his feet well but he sits low in a stance and gives too much space on the perimeter which makes it tough to contest jumpers. If he gets matched up against a legit big, most of them can push him around to get to their spot.

He looks engaged defensively though so overall I'm happy with what I'm seeing from him so far this season. The offense is coming along. The defense isn't great but he's going to continue getting stronger and he'll figure out through experience who he needs to play up on and when he can give space. We just have to be patient with him at this point and let him work through his mistakes.

 

[Livinthedream]

It looks like the game is slowing down for him. He extended his range to the NBA three point line and that was probably the biggest priority, especially if he's going to be playing most of his minutes at PF next to non-shooting bigs. He's also a better fit defensively at PF right now though some teams are just poor matchups for us. New Orleans has two bruisers in their frontcourt so he got pushed around and the Clippers play small so he ended up chasing Kawhi and Paul George all over the floor. Nether are ideal scenarios and they highlight the problem we need to solve which is who Bagley is going to guard. He moves his feet well but he sits low in a stance and gives too much space on the perimeter which makes it tough to contest jumpers. If he gets matched up against a legit big, most of them can push him around to get to their spot.

He looks engaged defensively though so overall I'm happy with what I'm seeing from him so far this season. The offense is coming along. The defense isn't great but he's going to continue getting stronger and he'll figure out through experience who he needs to play up on and when he can give space. We just have to be patient with him at this point and let him work through his mistakes.

Agreed. Like Doug Christie said, his issues are fundamentals. Not ability or effort related. Patience should come with the understanding that a player can't adjust everything about his game all at once. It gets worked on piece by piece. I think it's evident by the practice videos we've seen and from the results that the staff has told Bagley to work on that 3pt shot first.

 

[SacTownKid]

Marvin Bagley over his first seven games:

24.7 mins
10.9 points
8.1 rebounds
35% FG, 27% 3P

Marvin Bagley over his last seven games:

27.5 mins
16.6 points
7.4 rebounds
58% FG, 42% 3P


Found this on Twitter. Also an improving defense although he still has a ways to go to be considered not a liability but as Doug Christie pointed out, it’s fixable.

Now translate those numbers to legit starters minutes in that 35 mpg range and it's not too shabby. With the losses mounting up and no change yet from the coaching position taking him off the floor in the 4th just to lose anyway is out the window. Sorry Luke, if you're going to stick around you better at least give the team something to build off of even if it doesn't fit your personal plan.

 

[ESP47]

He's improved ten fold on the offensive side of the ball. I will definitely give him that and personally I hope it makes him valuable enough to be able to trade him at some point because I don't see how he will ever be able to become anything better than a sieve defensively. Just doesn't have the strength, body type or wingspan to be able to hold it down at the 5. Even if he had average fundamentals, he's still not going to be altering very many shots. If you look at this scouting report from SI, it's basically as if nothing has changed from his days at Duke.

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/18/m...outing-report-highlights-strengths-mock-draft

 

[dude12]

Having seen Bagley develop these past few weeks and the ability to knock down the 3, assuming he keeps it up, starting to think he’s a 4 way more than a 5. But he’s got to learn how to play defense. DC nailed part of his problems on the last telecast. He’s getting caught in the air when guys drive cause he’s too bouncy. We shall see if he can improve in this area

 

[SacTownKid]

He's improved ten fold on the offensive side of the ball. I will definitely give him that and personally I hope it makes him valuable enough to be able to trade him at some point because I don't see how he will ever be able to become anything better than a sieve defensively. Just doesn't have the strength, body type or wingspan to be able to hold it down at the 5. Even if he had average fundamentals, he's still not going to be altering very many shots. If you look at this scouting report from SI, it's basically as if nothing has changed from his days at Duke.

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/18/m...outing-report-highlights-strengths-mock-draft

I've heard the wingspan before but I don't think it's legit, it looked to me like he was about the same length as Harry Giles and I never heard anyone discredit his wingspan. The only measurement I could find was 7' but that was when he was 15 years old. He looks to have decent length enough to play the 5 and he routinely effects post players with that length. The body is another issue but he's shown he can body up defenders bigger than him and hold his own from time to time using his length.

 

[kingsboi]

Having seen Bagley develop these past few weeks and the ability to knock down the 3, assuming he keeps it up, starting to think he’s a 4 way more than a 5. But he’s got to learn how to play defense. DC nailed part of his problems on the last telecast. He’s getting caught in the air when guys drive cause he’s too bouncy. We shall see if he can improve in this area

a player that comes to mind who was a great defender who had a great second bounce is Shawn Marion

 

[regularkingsfan]

He's improved ten fold on the offensive side of the ball. I will definitely give him that and personally I hope it makes him valuable enough to be able to trade him at some point because I don't see how he will ever be able to become anything better than a sieve defensively. Just doesn't have the strength, body type or wingspan to be able to hold it down at the 5. Even if he had average fundamentals, he's still not going to be altering very many shots. If you look at this scouting report from SI, it's basically as if nothing has changed from his days at Duke.

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/18/m...outing-report-highlights-strengths-mock-draft

Not sure if it means anything, but Bagley has taken 4 charges this year, most on the team.

 

[King Baller]

Getting higher to the rim only matters if your in the right position to start with.

Talent = NBA skills and IQ. Physical gifts = running fast and jumping higher.

I'll take the bigger talent over physical gifts every time.

Is that you Geoff?

 

[ppine]

The question with Bagley is how much patience do you have? Do you have time to wait around for him to get in the weight room, figure out footwork, figure out how to play harder, figure how to stop leaving his feet on defense? He is still a raw talent.
Recently he has taken a couple of charges and played a more physical style. That is encouraging. Watching him try to play at the 5 against full grown men like Embid and Howard makes me queasy. That is demoralizing.

I think the Kings can with him or without him. They have already proven that. You will not see him much in fourth quarters until he at least an average defender. Keep your feet on the ground Hoppy.

 

[funkykingston]

The question with Bagley is how much patience do you have? Do you have time to wait around for him to get in the weight room, figure out footwork, figure out how to play harder, figure how to stop leaving his feet on defense? He is still a raw talent.
Recently he has taken a couple of charges and played a more physical style. That is encouraging. Watching him try to play at the 5 against full grown men like Embid and Howard makes me queasy. That is demoralizing.

I think the Kings can with him or without him. They have already proven that. You will not see him much in fourth quarters until he at least an average defender. Keep your feet on the ground Hoppy.

Bagley didn't do a bad job against Embiid. There were a few possessions where he looked better than Holmes when matched up with Joel.

As for how much patience should the Kings have with Bagley? The rest of this season.

Bagley's trade value is currently low but his play is improving over the last few games. At the end of this season (assuming he stays healthy) McNair & the Kings should make a decision. If they think Bagley can be a future cornerstone then you ride out the last season of his rookie deal and try to re-sign him.

If not, you deal him in the off-season for what you can get. He'll have less value during next season (when he's an ending contract) vs over the summer where a team would get him for a full year plus training camp.

That said, I'm still bullish on an athletic, 21 year old big who looks like he's slowly adding the missing pieces to his game.

 

[dude12]

Kings would be morons to deal Bagley or not be patient with him. The expectations on him have been set so high that when he doesn’t meet them every single game, some people rip him. Fairly shortsighted. Dude played his ass off against Embiid. He’s getting better in a lot of areas right now but for some it’s still not enough. There are some good things happening.

 

[206Fan]

Bagley has been horrific on defense. While looking up stats for a Richaun Holmes' post, I never realized how terrible Bagley was on defense. The stats speak for themselves.

Defense FG% allowed: 4th worst among all starting PFs and Centers (20+games)

Bagley allows an overall DFG% of 52.7% at 12.7 attempts/game. For comparison:
-
Jokic 50.9, Collins 48.6, Holmes 47.1, AD 45.2, BAM 44.7, Capela 44.3, and Turner 40.3.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Within 6ft of the rim, he's allowing 71.2% FG: THE worst among all starting PFs and Centers (20+games)
-
Jokic 61.3, AD 63.7, BAM 59.2, Collins 58.8, Holmes 53.5, Capela 47.8, and Turner 45.4.

Overall DFG% link
DFG% within 6ft link source

Advanced stats writer for NBA.com is even baffled by Bagley. found on reddit.