TNT Analysis (Rant)

[Team Dime]

Aside from the usual idiocy from Charles, I was wondering if Tragic even bothered to watch the game? In the postgame he says Bibby needs to get it going or it may be a sweep. Seems to me that Bibby was the only starter playing well, getting 16 through 3 quarters and at least 7 assists. That's pretty ignorant analysis.

Then of course, TNT just has to bring up the Fakers. News check, the Fakers are a lottery team and the world doesn't revolve around them. "BARF"!!

 

[Sofa King]

yes TNT analysis sucks very very much. I hate it.

 

[piksi]

My question is - why in the world would You ever watch a postgame after a kings loss. Are You that masohistic ?

 

[Team Dime]

My question is - why in the world would You ever watch a postgame after a kings loss. Are You that masohistic ?

I've been wanting a new TV for awhile, so I thought maybe watching TNT would make me break it, forcing me to get a new one.

 

[piksi]

I've been wanting a new TV for awhile, so I thought maybe watching TNT would make me break it, forcing me to get a new one.

As long as You don't hit it with Your head...

 

[PixelPusher]

Kenny Smith is ok, but Magic and especially Barkley phone it in on a nightly basis. They only bother with meaningful analysis if it involves the Spurs or the Lakers.

Charles Barkley is the laziest man in Television Broadcasting. TNT pays him a boatload of money to show up to the studio, watch a game or two and comment. Most of the time he doesn't even bother pay attention to the game.

 

[Venom]

At least the TNT guys give an opinion. They may be wrong, but they put it out there, and NBA players call them on it repeatedly. That's part of the fun. Bibby got Chuck real good last year, and T-Mac has been needling him during the playoffs. The airheads on ESPN are unbearable. They have nothing to say, except for AI's boyfriend, Steve Smith. Steve Smith is like if everyone had actually taken Ahmad Rashad seriously during the MJ era, only MJ was overrated and Rashad was a blowhard jerk.

 

[OhBoy]

At least the TNT guys give an opinion. They may be wrong, but they put it out there, and NBA players call them on it repeatedly. That's part of the fun. Bibby got Chuck real good last year, and T-Mac has been needling him during the playoffs. The airheads on ESPN are unbearable. They have nothing to say, except for AI's boyfriend, Steve Smith. Steve Smith is like if everyone had actually taken Ahmad Rashad seriously during the MJ era, only MJ was overrated and Rashad was a blowhard jerk.

...WAIT...did you say MJ was overrated?...thats sad, it doesn't even deserve any response..

 

[Bricklayer]

...WAIT...did you say MJ was overrated?...thats sad, it doesn't even deserve any response..

I read that as him comparing A.I./Smith to MJ/Rashad and saying that the A.I./Smith duo is as IF Rashad was a blowhard (like Smith) and MJ was overarated (like A.I.).

Of course I could be wrong.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

...WAIT...did you say MJ was overrated?...thats sad, it doesn't even deserve any response..

Somebody didn't bother to consider the context of the post; he wasn't literally saying that *he* thought that Jordan was overrated...

 

[Gargamel]

...WAIT...did you say MJ was overrated?...thats sad, it doesn't even deserve any response..

Wilt Chamberlain to MJ:

"In my day, they made rule changes to slow me down. In your day, they make rule changes to make the game easier for you."

He is overrated in the sense that he's not really the walking diety that the media portrays him. He's a prick who got more preferrential treatment from the refs and the league office and the media than anyone else. His 1:1 skills also helped to tear down the fabric of the team game that Magic and Bird promoted during the 80s.

 

[bigbadred00]

Wilt Chamberlain to MJ:

"In my day, they made rule changes to slow me down. In your day, they make rule changes to make the game easier for you."

He is overrated in the sense that he's not really the walking diety that the media portrays him. He's a prick who got more preferrential treatment from the refs and the league office and the media than anyone else. His 1:1 skills also helped to tear down the fabric of the team game that Magic and Bird promoted during the 80s.

So what does MJ have to do to prove he was the best ever. He might be more 1 on 1 than previous stars, but if that were true why did he win 6 TEAM titles in 8 seasons. If he wasn't a TEAM player, his TEAM wouldn't have won. AI is one hell of a player, but he isn't a team player. Neither is Kobe, he only looked like one because of Shaq Daddy being in the middle and even then he wasn't really much of one.

You act like 90s basketball didn't have Pat Riley D and the Pistons D of the late 80s which tried to slow MJ down.

Fact is even when he was the total focal point of another teams plan to stop the Bulls, he still put up 30+ and averaged over 50% from the field which is better than most post men. Fact for a Shooting Guard he averaged around 5.5 APG which isn't too SHABBY for a SHOOTER. Larry played the Point FORWARD and Magic played the POINT GUARD. Do you see any differences there. Fact, Magic had a lot better teammates. Other than Pippen in the first dynasty, noone else was even close to all-star caliber. Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott. MJ did have Grant who was a good defender, but he never had post playes like Kareem (top 5 of all time) and Worthy. What MJ did was amazing. He didn't have a great teammates yet made them into a great team. And if you don't believe that, then so be it. Only Magic-Lovers claim that MJ isn't the best. Even Magic proclaimed MJ to be the best, and most stars have. But I guess that doesn't matter. Wilt the stilt was definitely an amazing player during a time of much WEAKER competition. In his own right he was the best but he did have 1 major stopper, Russell. No body in MJ's hayday stopped him in a much more competitive league than Wilt could ever dream of.

 

[Gargamel]

So what does MJ have to do to prove he was the best ever. He might be more 1 on 1 than previous stars, but if that were true why did he win 6 TEAM titles in 8 seasons. If he wasn't a TEAM player, his TEAM wouldn't have won. AI is one hell of a player, but he isn't a team player. Neither is Kobe, he only looked like one because of Shaq Daddy being in the middle and even then he wasn't really much of one.

You act like 90s basketball didn't have Pat Riley D and the Pistons D of the late 80s which tried to slow MJ down.

Fact is even when he was the total focal point of another teams plan to stop the Bulls, he still put up 30+ and averaged over 50% from the field which is better than most post men. Fact for a Shooting Guard he averaged around 5.5 APG which isn't too SHABBY for a SHOOTER. Larry played the Point FORWARD and Magic played the POINT GUARD. Do you see any differences there. Fact, Magic had a lot better teammates. Other than Pippen in the first dynasty, noone else was even close to all-star caliber. Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott. MJ did have Grant who was a good defender, but he never had post playes like Kareem (top 5 of all time) and Worthy. What MJ did was amazing. He didn't have a great teammates yet made them into a great team. And if you don't believe that, then so be it. Only Magic-Lovers claim that MJ isn't the best. Even Magic proclaimed MJ to be the best, and most stars have. But I guess that doesn't matter. Wilt the stilt was definitely an amazing player during a time of much WEAKER competition. In his own right he was the best but he did have 1 major stopper, Russell. No body in MJ's hayday stopped him in a much more competitive league than Wilt could ever dream of.

I've heard these arguments tenfold and didn't say Jordan wasn't a great player. I personally don't think one man stands above all else. I don't want to hijack the thread any further either. I just dispute that he's God's gift to basketball. He's a flawed man just like the rest who was coddled his whole career.

Only Magic-lovers don't claim he wasn't the best either. A lot of people think he was overrated. Plus Magic is an effusive praiser. He can expound about the greatness of Brad Daugherty if you turn a camera on. Believe me, Magic had an ego too and deep down, he knew he was on the same level as MJ. Matter of fact, he was more versatile. He's just not about to say that because it'll throw Jordan's media throng into a tissy like the post above. Jordan jockers can't stand to have anyone even slightly challenge their worldview that MJ was sent from God Himself. The problem I have with Jordan jockers is that they often go on about how unique and amazing he was without recognizing that there were other legends unique and amazing in their own ways. And of those legends, I'm sure that Jordan was one of the rare few who would choose to break in a teenage rookie by repeatedly calling him a "bleepin bleep *** *****!" in practice like he did to Kwame. It's easy to imagine how disgusting his character was behind closed doors.

 

[Team Dime]

MJ is the best ever, PERIOD. Yes he cheated on his wife just like almost every other player not named A.C. Green, but at least he didn't almost rape someone and push his teammates and coach out the door.

 

[Gargamel]

MJ is the best ever, PERIOD. Yes he cheated on his wife just like almost every other player not named A.C. Green, but at least he didn't almost rape someone and push his teammates and coach out the door.

I won't dare touch that, but it illustrates my point perfectly about Jordan fans being extremely sensitive to anything that isn't total acceptance of his godliness.

(I have no problem with you Team Dime. Don't take my beliefs about Jordan personally.)

 

[bigbadred00]

I don't mind others being in the Question. Magic, Bird, Wilt, Kareem and Russell all could be in the mention for best ever. I just think MJ is better than Magic. Maybe it's just my age or something, but consenscious is MJ was the best ever. Someone could pass him, but of those in the past, most I believe, think he is the best ever.

 

[hoopsfan]

Wilt Chamberlain to MJ:

"In my day, they made rule changes to slow me down. In your day, they make rule changes to make the game easier for you."

He is overrated in the sense that he's not really the walking diety that the media portrays him. He's a prick who got more preferrential treatment from the refs and the league office and the media than anyone else. His 1:1 skills also helped to tear down the fabric of the team game that Magic and Bird promoted during the 80s.

I think I love you Gargamel!

 

[Gargamel]

I think I love you Gargamel!

Lol. Likewise.

 

[Gargamel]

I don't mind others being in the Question. Magic, Bird, Wilt, Kareem and Russell all could be in the mention for best ever. I just think MJ is better than Magic. Maybe it's just my age or something, but consenscious is MJ was the best ever. Someone could pass him, but of those in the past, most I believe, think he is the best ever.

It's not just about Magic because I happen to be a fan of his. It's about all of the guys you listed above and possibly Oscar and West as well. Who's to say MJ is better than Kareem, who won 6 MVPs and 6 titles? Magic who is the greatest passer of all time and who could board and score whenever he wanted? Magic Johnson could do ANYthing on the court. He couldn't air like MJ, but so what? He's the type of player who could throw up an 80 footer in a playoff game and make it (he did). He's got 138 triple doubles to MJ's 25. Bird was the most versatile F ever. Had eyes in the back of his head, great rebounder, big time scorer, winner. Russell's accomplishments speak for themselves. West is a legend in West Virginia. On the occasion that they show old footage of his, it doesn't take you long to see how supremely quick and skilled he was. Oscar avg'd triple doubles. Wilt is PERIOD the most dominant player ever and every bit the athlete MJ was if not better.

These guys all can stake a claim to being the greatest. MJ is just one of them. I'm not going to be force-fed the notion that his will to win was greater than Bird's, Russell's, Magic's, or West's. It ain't true. He's not MORE skilled than any of those players. They're all supremely skilled. They all are on the same pedestal. The media has jackhammered into the minds of the younger generation that no one ever played the game before MJ came along.

 

[bigbadred00]

The Key difference between MJ and Magic is Magic was born into a great franchise and team. MJ was born into a wasteland known as the Bulls. MJ made the bulls. Yes Magic propelled the Lakers to great things, but he didn't do it alone and had a plethora of help. MJ had Pippen for all the years but the rest of the the time he had guys like BJ Armstrong, Grant, Wennington, Paxton, Rodman, Kukoc who were good players in there own right but other than Rodman, never made a name for themselves before or after being with MJ. Kareem was the MVP before Magic got there? Worthy won a Finals MVP I believe. Magic never won a title without Kareem ala Kobe without Shaq. I know Kareem wasn't in his hayday, but he was 1 rediculous player. Pippen was too at times but nothing even close to Kareem.

 

[BJax24]

My question is - why in the world would You ever watch a postgame after a kings loss. Are You that masohistic ?

you can't even watch a postgame after a kings win. all they do is talk about what the other team did wrong and how the kings didn't win the game, the other team lost it

 

[Gargamel]

The Key difference between MJ and Magic is Magic was born into a great franchise and team. MJ was born into a wasteland known as the Bulls. MJ made the bulls. Yes Magic propelled the Lakers to great things, but he didn't do it alone and had a plethora of help. MJ had Pippen for all the years but the rest of the the time he had guys like BJ Armstrong, Grant, Wennington, Paxton, Rodman, Kukoc who were good players in there own right but other than Rodman, never made a name for themselves before or after being with MJ. Kareem was the MVP before Magic got there? Worthy won a Finals MVP I believe. Magic never won a title without Kareem ala Kobe without Shaq. I know Kareem wasn't in his hayday, but he was 1 rediculous player. Pippen was too at times but nothing even close to Kareem.

1. Rodman was a 2x champion and DPOY before arriving to the Bulls.
2. Pippen was a top 5 player, 5th pick in the draft, not unknown scrub.
3. Grant was a premier PF, 10th pick in the draft, not unknown scrub.
4. Kukoc was one of the best players (if not the best) out of Europe.
5. Magic preceeded Worthy by 3 years. Worthy won a Finals MVP in 1988. Cedric Maxwell won a Finals MVP in 1981. Does that detract from Bird's resume? Nope.
6. Magic 42/15/7/2 without Kareem as a rookie on the road in a closeout Finals game. Jordan's first big playoff plunge was a 63 point LOSING effort at Boston that was sent to double OT thanks to a ghost foul awarded to MJ at the buzzer.
7. Jordan never won a title without Pippen and a premier PF, and wouldn't have without them.
8. How does the team they played for detract or add to their greatness? Isiah Thomas made the Pistons, but is he widely considered better than Magic? Nope. The Lakers prior to Magic's arrival got bounced from the 1st round in consecutive years. Were the Lakers a good team? Yes. Were they GREAT before he arrived? Nope.

 

[bigbadred00]

Excuse me Gargamel, Grant a premier PF. A good solid 14/10 guy. I said Rodman was known before it. Grant did nothing really with the Magic, yes they got to the finals but really asn't that effective. What has Kukoc done afterwards. Pippen yes a great player but nowhere near the stature of Kareem, that's the point.

Before Michael Arrives in Chicago they went 27-55 and 28-54 the previous 2 years. The Lakers went 47-35 the year before Magic got there. There is an obvious difference.

Kareem like Shaq is almost irreplacable. Pippen while being as great as he is, is much more replacable then Kareem. You act like Kukoc was Dirk, he is a decent role player that's it. It was Jordan and Pippen and role players. Whatever, it's impossible to win an argument.

 

[acisking]

Its not that jordan is really better skillwise but just that he was so dominant for a player of his size. That is what made his legacy last. He was unquestionably a better all-around player than Larry and Magic because he played defense like neither of them could hope to. I do agree that someone could make a legitamate claim that a player like kareem or wilt was just as dynamic/dominant. However, Jordan's legacy is so great because he consistently outplayed his peers and was able to dominate an era filled with talented big men like ewing, olajuwan, robinson, and barkley

 

[Bricklayer]

I won't dare touch that, but it illustrates my point perfectly about Jordan fans being extremely sensitive to anything that isn't total acceptance of his godliness.

(I have no problem with you Team Dime. Don't take my beliefs about Jordan personally.)

Magic was great, and when Jordan first arose I resented him elbowing Magic to the side. I imagine I would have resented it even more if I was a Laker fan. But the simple fact of the matter is that Jordan was even greater. And to figure out why you have to go no further than look to the other side of the ball. We can argue all we want about whether its better to score 21 with 13 assists or score 33 with 6ast, but the thing that may have set Jordan so far apart is that he was one of the best in the world on the other end of the floor too, while Magic practically had to be hidden over there, in particular when his knees gave out. If he had not flaked to go play field of dreams, there is every reason to expect MJ might have won 8 championships in a row, and without an all-time great center/#1 option to share the load with either.

Still remember the half season that really pissed me off/I resented when Michael was young, the one season back there (maybe '88 or '89) when they switched MJ off to play PG for half the year, and he only averaged something like 11 assists a game for the remainder of the season. The game was his oyster.

 

[Team Dime]

Magic was great, and when Jordan first arose I resented him elbowing Magic to the side. I imagine I would have resented it even more if I was a Laker fan. But the simple fact of the matter is that Jordan was even greater. And to figure out why you have to go no further than look to the other side of the ball. We can argue all we want about whether its better to score 21 with 13 assists or score 33 with 6ast, but the thing that may have set Jordan so far apart is that he was one of the best in the world on the other end of the floor too, while Magic practically had to be hidden over there, in particular when his knees gave out. If he had not flaked to go play field of dreams, there is every reason to expect MJ might have won 8 championships in a row, and without an all-time great center/#1 option to share the load with either.

Still remember the half season that really pissed me/I resented when Micahel was young, and one season back there (maybe '88 or '89) they switched him off to play PG for half the year, and he only averaged something like 11 assists a game for the remainder of the season. The game was his oyster.

I couldn't have said it much better myself. For the longest time in this thread "Defense" was left out of the discussion when deciding who was the greatest player of all time. Gargamel, I've nothing against you either. Just because MJ is the best player I've ever seen, it doesn't make me a Jordan jocker. You might want lessen up alittle on saying how all the "Jordan jockers" are biased since it seems like you have been wearing Laker shades for the whole time in your praise of Magic.

 

[insyder]

With all this Wilt/Magic/Jordan talk...


<------Beginning to wonder exactly why this thread is in the "Kings" forum.

 

[keflanag]

He might be more 1 on 1 than previous stars, but if that were true why did he win 6 TEAM titles in 8 seasons.QUOTE]

Let's be realistic. MJ won 6 titles in 6 seasons. He was gone for 1 1/2 of the other two. Anyone who doesn't admit Jordan is the greatest player ever, either 1. Had their team burned by him so many times they hate him.
2. Is a fan of another player (Kobe for example) who was supposed to be the "next Jordan" and can't live up to the expectations or
3. Is just trying to be different and stir things up.

 

[Team Dime]

He might be more 1 on 1 than previous stars, but if that were true why did he win 6 TEAM titles in 8 seasons.QUOTE]

Let's be realistic. MJ won 6 titles in 6 seasons. He was gone for 1 1/2 of the other two. Anyone who doesn't admit Jordan is the greatest player ever, either 1. Had their team burned by him so many times they hate him.
2. Is a fan of another player (Kobe for example) who was supposed to be the "next Jordan" and can't live up to the expectations or
3. Is just trying to be different and stir things up.

Or ...

4. They are a Magic Johnson fan.... right Gargamel?

 

[Gargamel]

Or ...

4. They are a Magic Johnson fan.... right Gargamel?

That notion has unfairly been projected onto me. You even tried to bring Kobe into this discussion so I figure you must think I'm incapable of judging players because of my allegiance to LA. I'd never claim that Kobe is as good as Jordan and I had just as much respect for Bird, for example, as I did for Magic. I've included a group of players that I think are in the same echelon with Jordan.

I don't think MJ's that much greater than the other greats like the media would have us blindly accept. It's really a subjective title but, for the last 10-15 years, it's been almost blasphemous to do anything but worship MJ. Again, a thread like this has further strengthened my opinion that Jordan fans get quite angry when someone dares to "disrespect" him by having the audacity to say he was merely as good as Magic, Bird, etc.