These rotations SUCK.

[reid1boys]

Bobby Brown plays a few minutes in the first half, hits a 3 and looks good to me. Then he doesnt touch the court in the second half as I sit and watch B Jackson launch terrible looking bricks. Now I LOVE B Jackson, but his time is over. B Brown should not be losing time to him at this point.


K Thomas plays 8 minutes or so in first half has 2 or 4 points, gets some boards, takes a charge, and again has a positive influence when he was in. Then NOTHING in second half???

Cisco playing the point, but launching bad 3 point attempt after another. I havent looked at the numbers, but Id guess B Brown has a much better 3 point % than cisco.

Just rambling, but it just looks like to me Nat has absolutely no continuity in his rotation, something that makes it very difficult for those guys coming off the bench. It makes them press trying to be spectacular in their brief time on the court to impress so they get more time.

 

[kingsnation]

Bobby Brown plays a few minutes in the first half, hits a 3 and looks good to me.

Emphasis on a

 

[VF21]

Bobby Brown plays a few minutes in the first half, hits a 3 and looks good to me. Then he doesnt touch the court in the second half as I sit and watch B Jackson launch terrible looking bricks. Now I LOVE B Jackson, but his time is over. B Brown should not be losing time to him at this point.


K Thomas plays 8 minutes or so in first half has 2 or 4 points, gets some boards, takes a charge, and again has a positive influence when he was in. Then NOTHING in second half???

Cisco playing the point, but launching bad 3 point attempt after another. I havent looked at the numbers, but Id guess B Brown has a much better 3 point % than cisco.

Just rambling, but it just looks like to me Nat has absolutely no continuity in his rotation, something that makes it very difficult for those guys coming off the bench. It makes them press trying to be spectacular in their brief time on the court to impress so they get more time.

Coach Natt was just trying to find a combination that might be able to stop DWade. Bobby Brown was ineffective, while Bobby J was playing defense. That's why he got the minutes, IMHO...

I have no problem whatsoever with tonight's rotation.And I may be guilty of wishful thinking, but I actually think I saw more heart and effort than I've seen in a long time.

 

[Merdiesel]

This roster SUCKS.

 

[VF21]

This roster SUCKS.

Kinda reminds me of the comment from the recently concluded presidential campaign:

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Our roster has more holes in it than swiss cheese and this current group of players is not going to be able to overcome the deficiencies on a regular basis. All we can hope for is good games with heart and hustle, energy and effort...and wait to see what Petrie has in mind.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I actually agree that the rotations really dont make sense and there is no way 11 guys should be playing for this team.

I feel bad for Beno. Beno played very good at the beggining of the game. He actually got us back into it scoring our first 6 points ( I think ) after we were down ten early. Then Mr. Natt decided to hate on beno and only play him 15 minutes all game. I really hope this isnt becoming a personal thing natt has against beno, because we actually need him to play .. like it or not he is our best point guard that we just signed to a big deal .. he's still young and if he cant get minutes on our team nobody else will want him.

Sadly K9 is better than Mikki Moore, and if you absolutely HAVE to Natt, play one of them... I cant watch a kings game were both thomas and moore get in..

WHY CANT GREENE GET MINUTES ON THIS TEAM?

.. I dont think Bjacks has a place on this team anymore either .. we dont need 3 point guards and now that martin is back bobbyj shouldnt be getting any more minutes at the 2. Who cares if he was playing good defense (Salmons was playing D on Wade anyways ..) I would rather have my young players learning how to play defense on good players late in the game and getting that experience .. they sure arent going to get a chance to defend a player that good in practice ..

 

[reid1boys]

Emphasis on a

But how many minutes did he play? How many shots did he take? If he took only 1 shot and made A shot, thats pretty good.

And you are kidding right?? We were playing B Jackson to defend Wade?? Did that seem to be working? Wade got to the bucket at will, no matter who was covering him, and pretty much no matter who you put on him in the NBA wont have too much better results.

My point is that in the next year or 2, B Brown will be a contributor to this team, so let him learn now when his mistakes arent going to hurt this team, because no matter who is playing, this team aint going to be winning any games.

So If B Brown makes mistakes and we lose, who cares. That is experience in his pocket, same with Hawes, same with Thompson, and used to be same with Dante. By the way, someone care to explain what the point of Dante not playing at all is. I thought he was actually making some progress.

Isnt this the perfect time for him to be playing????? We suck anyways.

 

[reid1boys]

masskingsfan,

That is funny, I just read your post after mine wentup and we are basically saying the exact same thing about the exact same players.

Hell, hire us as the coach and we are in business

 

[kingsnation]

But how many minutes did he play? How many shots did he take? If he took only 1 shot and made A shot, thats pretty good.

And you are kidding right?? We were playing B Jackson to defend Wade?? Did that seem to be working? Wade got to the bucket at will, no matter who was covering him, and pretty much no matter who you put on him in the NBA wont have too much better results.

My point is that in the next year or 2, B Brown will be a contributor to this team, so let him learn now when his mistakes arent going to hurt this team, because no matter who is playing, this team aint going to be winning any games.

So If B Brown makes mistakes and we lose, who cares. That is experience in his pocket, same with Hawes, same with Thompson, and used to be same with Dante. By the way, someone care to explain what the point of Dante not playing at all is. I thought he was actually making some progress.

Isnt this the perfect time for him to be playing????? We suck anyways.

I see your point about developing his young talent. I really do, but here are some stats from last night..

Bobby Brown: 10 min, 1-4 fg, 1 ast, 1 TO
Bobby Jackson: 23 min, 1-7 fg, 4 ast, 1 stl, 0 TO
Beno Udrih: 16 min, 3-9 fg, 2 ast, 3 TO

Now dis-reguarding, points and minutes... Bobby Jackson has done what we need a true point guard to do... pass the ball (4 ast) and don't turn the ball over ( 0 TO).

For a team that struggles with passing and TO, BJax was the best pg for this team last night. We didn't need scoring because of Salmons, Martin and Hawes on the floor. We needed someone to run a offense.

 

[reid1boys]

Im not disagreeing with you at all, but again, we really didnt need anything last night, because win last night or not, this team could be losing 50-60 games this season. so LAST NIGHT and how B jackson played or didnt play to me is IRRELEVANT. I want to know how our PG will be playing in 2 years from now, and I will give you 100-1 odds the person playing PG for the kings will not be Bobby Jackson. B brown on the other hand could be getting some big minutes in 2 years, so all I am saying is Id rather him experience his growing pains right now, on a team that might lose 60 games.


Can you have a PG suffering through these growing pains on a team competing for a title? heck no, but right now, the Kings are competing for the top pick in the draft

 

[CruzDude]

.. I dont think Bjacks has a place on this team anymore either .. we dont need 3 point guards and now that martin is back bobbyj shouldnt be getting any more minutes at the 2. Who cares if he was playing good defense (Salmons was playing D on Wade anyways ..) I would rather have my young players learning how to play defense on good players late in the game and getting that experience .. they sure arent going to get a chance to defend a player that good in practice ..

BJaxs plays defense vs. other PG's. Beno only does part of the time. Brown is still a rookie and needs to learn to stay in front of other PG's on def. Once Brown or Beno do that, they get the minutes. period.

 

[nbrans]

This is what you get when you have a Sloan disciple coaching the team, and a pale, pale imitation of one at that. Yanking guys when they make little mistakes is the absolute best, sure-fire way to lose a team. Satisfies the coach's ego and not much more.

Playing basketball is hard. Mistakes happen. When guys have to wonder in the back of their head if they're going to get yanked every time they make an easy mistake, it makes them tentative and generally pissed off. Sound like Beno?

Real NBA coaches have rotations. The players know how much they're going to play, they don't get yanked for little things, and while the coach may adjust if things aren't working, it's not personal, and it's not based on one guy not doing well. It's based on the TEAM not doing well. This is the Adelman/Phil Jackson way, and it works.

If Beno knew he were getting minutes and had the coach's trust I think you'd see a different player. Instead we have a point guard whose confidence is shot and is looking over his shoulder every time he does something on the court.

 

[VF21]

Im not disagreeing with you at all, but again, we really didnt need anything last night, because win last night or not, this team could be losing 50-60 games this season. so LAST NIGHT and how B jackson played or didnt play to me is IRRELEVANT. I want to know how our PG will be playing in 2 years from now, and I will give you 100-1 odds the person playing PG for the kings will not be Bobby Jackson. B brown on the other hand could be getting some big minutes in 2 years, so all I am saying is Id rather him experience his growing pains right now, on a team that might lose 60 games.


Can you have a PG suffering through these growing pains on a team competing for a title? heck no, but right now, the Kings are competing for the top pick in the draft

This theory works fine for fans, but those guys out there last night were trying their hardest to WIN. You cannot have it both ways. If you want to destroy a team, the best thing to do is coach to lose. As Bricklayer and others have pointed out repeatedly, it's not up to the coach to set us in good stead for a lottery pick. That's the job of the GM...

The coach should be putting a competitive team on the court. Period. You don't throw games or coach to lose...ever. If you do, you will pretty much destroy the hearts of every player you've got, and the fans as well. And you might not get them back...

Throwing all rookies on the court just to play all rookies is insane. You need at least one or two veterans out there to help show the new kids the right way to do things and to take some of the pressure off. The fans in the stands didn't pay money to see a team get stomped on. They paid to see a good game ... and last night they saw it.

We're gonna keep losing. Games like last night, however, are at least palatable. And that's how you manage to keep your fans at least coming back while you're trying to jockey for position in the draft AND build the right foundation of players for the future.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

This is what you get when you have a Sloan disciple coaching the team, and a pale, pale imitation of one at that. Yanking guys when they make little mistakes is the absolute best, sure-fire way to lose a team. Satisfies the coach's ego and not much more.

Playing basketball is hard. Mistakes happen. When guys have to wonder in the back of their head if they're going to get yanked every time they make an easy mistake, it makes them tentative and generally pissed off. Sound like Beno?

Real NBA coaches have rotations. The players know how much they're going to play, they don't get yanked for little things, and while the coach may adjust if things aren't working, it's not personal, and it's not based on one guy not doing well. It's based on the TEAM not doing well. This is the Adelman/Phil Jackson way, and it works.

If Beno knew he were getting minutes and had the coach's trust I think you'd see a different player. Instead we have a point guard whose confidence is shot and is looking over his shoulder every time he does something on the court.

agree 100% .. the thing that really grinds my gears is that Beno was playing decent before reggie was fired, and started the game last night playing well and still got yanked and only played 15 minutes.

I just have no idea what natts doing .. What other starter in this league only gets 15 minutes a night?

And Im sorry, I might get flamed for this .. but I think Beno is a better player than bobby jackson. Bobby's 3 pointers make me cringe, his defense is vastly overrated on this board and he looks for his shot too often. Beno can drive to the hoop better than bobby and has a better handle. He's younger and still has a few years to improve .. playing bobby right now is meaningless.

Kenny's rotation closing out the game was odd aswell. I thought Cisco was playing well with about 2 minutes left and Natt took him out. I know Cisco isnt a point guard but it really doesnt matter .. bobby didnt take the ball up the floor anyways, it was usually in martin or salmons hands.

 

[VF21]

Cisco had been on the receiving end of two particularly wicked screens. I strongly suspect he was seeing at least double or perhaps triple...

As far as Beno goes, I don't disagree that he has potential. I believe Coachie will be very helpful in him (Beno) getting his confidence back. I do think that last night, however, Jackson was left in because of his DEFENSE. He was a pit bull out there and I understand why Natt left him in...

 

[reid1boys]

This theory works fine for fans, but those guys out there last night were trying their hardest to WIN. You cannot have it both ways. If you want to destroy a team, the best thing to do is coach to lose. As Bricklayer and others have pointed out repeatedly, it's not up to the coach to set us in good stead for a lottery pick. That's the job of the GM...

The coach should be putting a competitive team on the court. Period. You don't throw games or coach to lose...ever. If you do, you will pretty much destroy the hearts of every player you've got, and the fans as well. And you might not get them back...

Throwing all rookies on the court just to play all rookies is insane. You need at least one or two veterans out there to help show the new kids the right way to do things and to take some of the pressure off. The fans in the stands didn't pay money to see a team get stomped on. They paid to see a good game ... and last night they saw it.

We're gonna keep losing. Games like last night, however, are at least palatable. And that's how you manage to keep your fans at least coming back while you're trying to jockey for position in the draft AND build the right foundation of players for the future.

I never said anything about playing to lose, or coaching to lose. Arent they trying to win right now? And they are likely going to lose 5o and possibly 60 games this year. They are going to lose no matter what. Nobody said play 5 rookies 30 plus minutes a night. BUt Since JT is starting right now and Spencer is getting good minutes at the 4 or 5 (and will continue to do so all season, what Im saying is the B Jackson should no longer be in the rotation at this point. He is NOT considerably better than B Brown, if he is better at all. I never feel like his shot is going to go in anymore.

The rotation for me would be
Beno
Martin
Salmons
Jason T
Miller

Bench rotation would be:
B Brown
Francisco
Spencer (at5)
Thomas (4)
Greene 3

I thought Dante was actually playing OK earlier in the year, I am not sure what he did to drop so fast.

Depending on situations I would have cisco play both the 2 or 3 and also would do what Kings are doing now, use Spencer at both the 4 and 5.

But Spencer really needs a chance to get that hook going from the low block. He had a beuatiful hook last night that could have been done over and over. i saw it once and never again.

When the Kings were FORCED to play Hawes, Jason T, Brown, and Dante Greene big minutes earlier in the year, are you goin gto tell me that they were not competitve? They werent as enjoyable to watch as last nights game? Heck, if Im not mistaken, I think the Kings won more in the first 15 games than the last 15 games when they have a full roster.

Dont make it sound like if they played B Brown that that simply menas they have given up.

Now if Sheldon Williams is playing, then we know they have thrown in the towel

 

[Kingster]

This is what you get when you have a Sloan disciple coaching the team, and a pale, pale imitation of one at that. Yanking guys when they make little mistakes is the absolute best, sure-fire way to lose a team. Satisfies the coach's ego and not much more.

Playing basketball is hard. Mistakes happen. When guys have to wonder in the back of their head if they're going to get yanked every time they make an easy mistake, it makes them tentative and generally pissed off. Sound like Beno?

Real NBA coaches have rotations. The players know how much they're going to play, they don't get yanked for little things, and while the coach may adjust if things aren't working, it's not personal, and it's not based on one guy not doing well. It's based on the TEAM not doing well. This is the Adelman/Phil Jackson way, and it works.

If Beno knew he were getting minutes and had the coach's trust I think you'd see a different player. Instead we have a point guard whose confidence is shot and is looking over his shoulder every time he does something on the court.

Admit it. You're a Beno apologist! Beno didn't play well when Theus was here and giving him regular minutes. He's still not playing well and we have a new coach. The constant? Beno. Poor players are typically inconsistant (Beno). He can't sustain good performances because he takes risks on the floor (turnovers) in order to make plays because he's not good enough to make plays without taking risks. He's just not very good. Beno has been around now for a year and a half. We know what he is. We can make judgements on him. But I really don't understand how we can make a judgement on Natt after such a short time period.

 

[Prince_XY]

I sympathize with you reid1boys. Sometimes I wonder what's the point of playing Bobby Jackson when clearly he cannot play consistently to win games. He is just not the same Bobby Jackson that he was before. Bobby Jackson's reliability is almost non-existent and more or less the same as Beno's and Brown at any given night. Plus Bobby Jackson is about to retire anyways and we don't have to showcase his talent anymore for future trading purposes.

I can understand if BJax case is like Miller's and Salmon's where playing these guys still makes sense. Miller is still a double-double center when fully motivated and Salmons whether we like it or not is still one of our best offensive option behind Martin ( and Hawes?). We need to showcase Miller's and Salmon's talent to boost their worth for trading purposes. But again, BJax's case is different, so that playing him instead of the equally bad players ( Beno and Brown ) really is a big waste. I also would rather spend the playing time to hopefully improve and develop Beno and Brown's game.

BJax should be playing garbage time now.

I believe the best rotation for the Kings for now is:

Rotation/Minutes for now:
#5 Miller ( 30 min ) Hawes ( 18 min )
#4 Hawes ( 12 min ) Thompson ( 18 min ) Moore ( 9 min ) Williams ( 9 min )
#3 Thompson ( 12 min ) or Greene ( 18min ) Salmons ( 9 min ) Garcia ( 9 min )
#2 Martin ( 36 min ) Salmons ( 6 min ) Garcia ( 6 min )
#1 Udrih ( 30 min ) Salmons or Garcia or BBrown ( 18 min )
( BJax, or Douby - garbage time )


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