That trade is looking pretty good for us. Can anyone tell me what the key was to some national commentators saying Toronto got the best of it? Looking at the last ten games for our two teams, Toronto is 7-3 and we are 4-6. We are starting Gay to great advantage, using Acy a lot, and some use out of Gray. In most Toronto games Salmons, Vasquez and PPat are the first three off the bench and are playing lots of minutes. Looks like it helped both but why did Toronto get the nod as the winner?
The Trade - we got Gay
- Thread starter pshn80
- Start date
upinsmoke
All-Star
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/12/31/5261810/rudy-gay-trade-toronto-raptors-locker-room-video
Raps and players involved in the trade reaction to trade
Raps and players involved in the trade reaction to trade
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Gay's problems started with that mega contract he signed. it was stupidly big. too big for a non-superstar.
Then Hollinger came along with his efficiency kick (note he has efficiencied the Grizzlies right into last place in the Southwest) and pronounced Rudy the problem that was holding Memphis back. Bad timing too, because Rudy had started the year with his worst offensive season. So then he heads on up to Toronto, which is a franchise everyone loved to make fun of under Brian Colangelo and his contract was too big, and Hollinger, great god of tax nerds that he was had pronounced him The Problem, and Rudy wasn't able to save the Raptors because he was never that guy, never the guy his contract said he was. Then he starts off this year under a crap coach in a silly offensive system trying to turn him into a point forward, he's got a duplicative talent alongside him in DeRozan, and they just died out there, as did Rudy's percentages, which REALLY allowed all the analytics efficiency nuts to hop around proclaiming their knowitallness (Rudy as you may have noticed is actually a talented basketball player form themidrange and in the post, which do not compute with analytics guys who have decided the only two things you can do on a basketball court is chuck threes and shoot FTs).
And that's how you can get yourself a Top 10 position talent for a pile of bench players, and have numbnuts everywhere smugly proclaim how screwed you are. Numbnuts can be handy sometimes. It became such a hip thing to run Rudy down that it actually drove down his trade value to the point we could get a 20ppg scorer for nothing we wanted.
upinsmoke
All-Star
I was watching League Pass and the raps happened to be the opponent and you probably have an idea how great it is to see stinky fish, Hayes and Patterson all check in at the same time not in Kings jerseys. Vasquez had his moments here as did Patterson who's shot went totally missing but as a whole good trade.
I think we got the better part of the deal...it freed up room for Ross, Amir Johnson is playing better, and the bench seems to be better for Toronto but their record since the trade is partly built on Eastern Conference teams while we are in the Western grind. VF also mentioned contract and I think it's a majority of the perception. I've said several times in the past, I thought Memphis screwed themselves getting rid of Gay.
Remember the team before the 2 trades....we had a hard time scoring consistently...now we seem to be a tough team to handle offensively.
Remember the team before the 2 trades....we had a hard time scoring consistently...now we seem to be a tough team to handle offensively.
K
KingMilz
Guest
4 of there wins came against NYK without Melo and the Bulls without half the roster they beat Dallas (1point) who we trashed without Gay and OKC who we lost to by 1 point without Godsins, they had a much easier road to 7-3. They also beat 76ers who we play 2morro
Wins over Houston x2, Miami > OKC/Dallas
Wins over Houston x2, Miami > OKC/Dallas
Marc Gasol being hurt MIGHT have something to do with the Grizzlies struggles. I'm not too certain, but taking a DPOY, the 2nd option and the best passer on the Grizzlies has the potential to hurt the team's chances of winning.
But I'm sure it's Hollinger's fault. He should have predicted Gasol's season ending injury and broken up a WCF team accordingly
But I'm sure it's Hollinger's fault. He should have predicted Gasol's season ending injury and broken up a WCF team accordingly
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Alternately, he might not have blown the talent off the roster in pursuit of "efficiency", and chased the coach out of town in the process. Funny how those things can actually weaken a franchise to the point they can't survive bumps in the road anymore.
He didn't blow anything off the roster. That team has stayed the same sans Rudy and adding a few pieces like Koufos, Davis, Pondexter, etc.
And it was a needed trade. Conley and Gasol weren't getting enough shots. Prince is a shell of himself obviously, but he can still D up a bit and he stays out of the way on offense
Entity
Hall of Famer
Jamal I didn't realize how against this trade you were until tonight. Did you rather keep what we traded to the raps? Maybe pursue other avenues?. What's your deal? Why the angst against Gay? Anytime somebody says something good about Rudy you come up with a stat or a record from the past to debunk the joy. Quite frankly it's pissing me off a little. I know you haven't been here long not sure how long you been a kings fan but we haven't had much to get excited about for about 7-8 years.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Jamal has been here 4+ years and last night was kind enough to give Gay an A for his efforts in the grade thread.
The larger issue for all "advanced metric" people is that Gay became their pariah, and its going to be as hard to back off that ledge as it is for Zach Lowe to eat crow on Cousins. Maybe even harder, as it runs straight to basic philosophy. It would be like me embracing a weenie tweener "stretch 4" as the future of the position for us. Screw that. I know better.
Entity
Hall of Famer
I'm guessing that's why the advanced stats guys like Isaiah so much because they don't talk about defense.
Entity
Hall of Famer
That's great in those 12 games 5 teams had winning records. In our 10 games with gay 7 of them had winning records. Guess it worked out for both teams but I hope your trying to put a negative spin to gay being here
TheBadGuy
Bench
I'm just saying that Toronto is now 9-3 after the Rudy trade, well both team has actually benefited from the trade. Kings got an all-star level player, dumped some scrubs and Raptors got rid of Gay's contract.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
So the w/l record is of no importance.
TheBadGuy
Bench
Honestly I am not sure about the w/l record of the Kings after the Rudy trade, correct me if I'm wrong, I think it's 5-6 or 6-6 now?
4-7 with gay in lineup
K
KingMilz
Guest
I think it's 4-6 and he didn't really play most the game against Charlotte. says he's played 10 games for us not 11.
You're right. I accidentally counted that Jazz game. He did play 24 minutes against Charlotte.
Hadlowe
Starter
Advanced stats guys hate talking about defense because there are no defensive stats out there that you can definitively point to and say "Lo! Efficiency." On offense, one person puts the ball in the hoop and that simplifies things quite a bit. It allows know-nothings like myself to say "His PER is the 18th highest in the league," and pretend to be smart for a bit.
To be fair defense is much more team dependent than offense and you're in trouble when quantifying it. If you rotated as required by team gameplan, but your teammate didn't, then as a result there's a basket allowed by the team, while you are on the floor, and Synergy shows that you just allowed the player you guarded to score.
Chubbs
Starter
And we have a winner!
Entity
Hall of Famer
i don't know. if nobody ever passes you the ball your offensive stats won't be much lol..
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