The Trade of 05-06: Ron Artest for Peja Stojakovic: 82games

http://www.82games.com/chaikin1.htm


Ron Artest FOR PEJA STOJAKOVIC TRADE: The recent straight up trade of Indiana Pacer SF Ron Artest to Sacramento for Kings SF Peja Stojakovic was made for two reasons. Reason one from the Pacers perspective was Artest's arduous tenure in Indiana. Reason two from the Kings perspective was Stojakovic's impending free agency, and Sacramento's desire to obtain a good player to replace him. The question is which team got the better player in terms of on court performance. Granted if the player can't stay on the court this is a moot point, but at least a little statistical analysis and computer simulation of NBA games can help determine just who is receiving the better player in terms of which will generate more wins for their new team....


A player's points scored per zero point team possessions is an attempt to determine a player's scoring efficiency. The logic here is relating a player's points scored to how many times he himself is personally responsible for his team not scoring on a team possesion - i.e. the ratio of a player's points scored to how often the team does not score due to something he personally did (miss a FGA or FT rebounded by the defense, or committing a turnover)...
At the start of the 05-06 season, Peja Stojakovic was 28 years of age and Ron Artest was just 25, so the advantage there goes to the Kings for receiving the younger player. looking at the last two seasons (since Artest missed almost all of the 04-05 due to suspension), Stojakovic averaged 22.4 pts/g playing 39 min/g, Artest 18.8 pts/g playing 38 min/g. again advantage Kings....

Stojakovic has the far better Scoring FG% the past two seasons, 60% to Artest's 51%, the better ratio of points scored to zero point team possessions, and their rebounding the past two seasons has been nearly identical (6.9rebs/48min for Artest vs. 6.6 rebs/48min for Stojakovic). However Artest is the better defender (one of the best in the league) who also gets significantly more steals and blocks...
So how does one make sense of all this? this is where the computer simulation of NBA games can help. Since we can calculate each player’s touches per minute, and also what each player did per touch and how often, we can program the computer to play basketball because it will know how often each player should handle the ball on offense and what each player should do once they get the ball. All relevant stats are used (FG%s, rebounding, steal, and shot blocking rates, etc.), as well as a way to rate players defensively for how much they increase or decrease the FG%s of the players they guard (thanks to data provided by 82games.com)...

To compare the two players we can simulate thousands of games against each team's actual 05-06 schedule with Artest on the 05-06 Pacers at SF and then on the 05-06 Kings, and then repeat this with Stojakovic on both teams at SF and compare the results. Since Artest has averaged playing 38 min/g for Indiana this season and the past two, and Stojakovic 39 min/g for Sacramento over that same time, we'll play each for 40 min/g at SF. For each simulation the substitution patterns of the Kings and the Pacers are identical, with the exception of either Artest or Stojakovic at SF for those 40 min/g. For comparison purposes not only can we simulate Artest and Stojakovic from 05-06 on the 05-06 Pacers and Kings, but also their stats from previous seasons on those teams, plus others SFs in the league. Here are the results:


Simulation shows that based solely on their 05-06 statistics, Ron Artest generates significantly more wins playing 40 min/g and 82 games than does Peja Stojakovic, about 5 more with each playing 40 min/g and 82 games. This is because in 05-06 Stojakovic is shooting overall the worst he has since his rookie season, and is getting steals and blocks at the lowest rates of his career, while committing the most fouls per minute of his career. On the other hand Artest is shooting overall almost as well as Stojakovic, but is one of the league leaders in steals, blocks more shots, and is a better defender...

Currently in 05-06 Artest is generating wins at a pace just 3-4 games worse per average 82 game season than what some of the best starting SFs in the league are doing (such as LeBron James and Andrei Kirilenko), while generating 11-12 more wins than what some of the worst starting SFs are (quentin richardson, desmond mason). Stojakovic is generating only about 6 more wins than what some of the worst starting SFs are, while generating about 8-9 less than what the best starting SFs are generating...

So in terms of generating wins per minute played, Ron Artest is currently generating more than Peja Stojakovic. Stojakovic has generated more than Artest in the past, in particular the 03-04 season, which was the finest offensive season by a SF in recent times...
 
Long, I know. Highlighted the more important parts. 1 Problem is Artest's stats are kinda skewed due to him not playing that much and Peja has played hurt.
 
Well...certainly not going to disagree wiht the overall conclusion. But...sigh. I like 82games.com. A lot of stuff there that you can't find elsewhere. But when they start trying to throw a lot of their esoteric stats together to support major conclusions...eh, leaves me cold, even when I happen to agree with them. And when they do it via computer sim...:eek:
 
82games going overboard as usual with the statistical conclusions, I agree Brick. That said, hard not to agree with the conclusion that, even an out-of-shape, Ron Artest has noticably more impact on a basketball game than Peja does. His attitude and intimidation alone is worth much to the Kings in terms of intangibles defensively.
 
KA_2 said:
82games going overboard as usual with the statistical conclusions, I agree Brick. That said, hard not to agree with the conclusion that, even an out-of-shape, Ron Artest has noticably more impact on a basketball game than Peja does. His attitude and intimidation alone is worth much to the Kings in terms of intangibles defensively.

Uh oh. Someone check the space-time continuum... I agree with a Laker fan. There must be something wrong in the universe.

:D
 
82 games X Ron Artest - Peja Stojakovic + FG% / TO X (Wins - Losses)/ 3 + Points per game allowed - 365 days in a year + Peja's age - Ron's age X games played + ½steals X ¼blocks - missed field goals..........blah, blah, blah

Fairly obvious conclusion....don't really need some computer programmer with a master's degree in Mathematics to come up with a formula to prove Artest's worth. Just watch the guy play.
 
Gee, why bother with real games? Let's just all watch simulated games. Would we have simulated injuries, simulated lock-outs, simulated bad referee calls, simulated choking in clutch situations, simulated coach choking? ;)
 
LoungeLizard said:
82 games X Ron Artest - Peja Stojakovic + FG% / TO X (Wins - Losses)/ 3 + Points per game allowed - 365 days in a year + Peja's age - Ron's age X games played + ½steals X ¼blocks - missed field goals..........blah, blah, blah

Fairly obvious conclusion....don't really need some computer programmer with a master's degree in Mathematics to come up with a formula to prove Artest's worth. Just watch the guy play.
Spoil sport.;)
 
kennadog said:
Gee, why bother with real games? Let's just all watch simulated games. Would we have simulated injuries, simulated lock-outs, simulated bad referee calls, simulated choking in clutch situations, simulated coach choking? ;)

Hating Lakers would still be real, and Knicks would still suck
 
bigbadred00 said:
Don't kill the messenger. Just another article about the Kings. ^^.

Oh obviously nothing against you bigbad. Just the overextension of statsitis sometimes.
 
Somebody wake me up when 82games comes up with a stat for players-scared-of-Ron per 48 minutes, and then I'll show you meaningfull Ron stat. ;)
 
I agree with Brick. There is an essential flaw in those sorts of calculations, with the per 48 min stat being a pet peeve of mine. Pure stats are already not enough to equate with value, then you add in an extrapolation of stats without context and it is a recipe for inaccuracies. Often it is not only just the stat, but the time when it occurs. 22 pts is good, 22 pts to break the others teams 12-0 run is great. A rebound that just happens to ricoche into your hands is good, a rebound you snatch away after boxing out a man that was going to put it back is great.

Pure stats and even extrapolations have their place, and even can sometimes be correct. Measuring trade values by stats of players on different teams with different schemes and where each player is expected to play a different role is not the way to go.
 
I agree with Brick myself. Seem kinda "nba live 2006'ish" to me. Just let them play on the court. Not sure why both teams can't win in the trade deal. Seems to me at this time both are.
 
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