The saga of Kobe and Karl (merged)

#1
Karl to blame not Kobe for the feud

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers12dec12,1,1056605.column?coll=la-headlines-sports

I'm going to write two words here, and while they might disgust you, I'm going to ask you not to immediately crumple your newspaper and throw it across the room.

OK, here goes: Kobe Bryant.

There's almost nothing you can say these days as it relates to the Lakers without drawing a line in the stands between the Kobe lovers and the Kobe haters, and now here's more fodder to ponder.

Both Bryant and Karl Malone — speaking through his agent, Dwight Manley — confirmed Saturday night that they had a major falling out involving Bryant's wife, Vanessa, two weeks before the Bryant radio interview that had supposedly ticked off Malone so much.

Before Saturday night's game with the Clippers, Bryant listened as I relayed the story that's going around town, and when I finished, he said, that's true.

On Nov. 23, the night the Lakers played the Bucks at Staples Center, Vanessa was talking on the phone to Malone's wife, Kaye. Kaye gave Vanessa her husband's cellphone number, and Vanessa called Malone, who was sitting at courtside, and invited Malone's child to join her.

Malone, wearing cowboy boots and a hat, eventually took the child to Vanessa.

Malone hugged Vanessa, and then Vanessa asked — as Manley recounts this part of the story — "Hey, cowboy, what are you hunting?"

"She said it twice," Manley said, "and Karl answered the second time, 'I'm hunting for little Mexican girls.' "

After the game Vanessa told Bryant that Malone had come on to her, and said several inappropriate things. She also told Bryant that she had called Malone's wife and asked Kaye to get her husband away from her.

Bryant called Malone on his cellphone after the game, and Bryant laid into Malone. Bryant said Malone didn't have much to say in return and didn't deny anything.

What's a husband supposed to do when your wife tells you something like that? Bryant wanted to know as we talked.

Bryant said he was uncomfortable discussing the incident and he would have preferred to keep it quiet, but the New York Post reported this week that Malone was seen giving Vanessa a big hug, and then "somehow Malone managed to cross Vanessa" and got on her "frosty side."




AFTER I talked to Bryant, I relayed the same story to Manley and asked for the opportunity to talk to Malone and hear his version.

"Karl wants me to give you two messages," Manley said after calling Malone. "He never hit on Vanessa, nor would he…. In fact, when he first heard about [the accusation], he said, 'You have to be kidding me.'

"As for the comments he made to her that offended her personally, he told both her and Kobe that night that he apologized."

Manley said that after Malone apologized, "Kobe followed that with a string of threats."

Bryant said he was upset but he said that he made no threats and was only coming to the defense of his wife, and that he told Malone to stay away from his wife.

Bryant said when he did the radio interview with XTRA (690/1150) he never mentioned anything about the simmering feud between the two because he didn't want to take personal shots at Malone.

Manley said Bryant called the Malone home the next day with more threats, and that Malone's wife listened in on a speaker phone.

Bryant said that both he and his wife called the Malones the next day in an attempt to work things out but failed.

The Bryants' second-day phone call and continuing accusations infuriated Malone and that led him to effectively end his relationship with the Lakers. The subsequent radio interview with XTRA allowed the rift between the two to go public without any mention of the soap opera — until now.




KOBE BRYANT.

The other day those two words came up while the daughter and I were speaking at the all-girls Marlborough School, and when Miss Radio Personality heard them, she said, "I hate Kobe Bryant."

Many of the athletes in the room — ranging from seventh to 12th grade — began standing, cheering and applauding, which made it difficult to hear me when I told them Miss Radio Personality had no idea what she was talking about.

It's becoming tougher and tougher to defend Bryant — even in my own home.

I told Bryant right now in the estimation of many folks he's the "rat's behind of the world," although I don't think I used the word "behind," and that he appears to be losing ground in a city he once owned.

"I know," he said. "I've got to get out there with people more. I will. I'm loosening up, and I'll get better. I know what I've got to do."

I know this. He's got a lot to do if he's going to ever change the mind of Miss Radio Personality.




THE SUNDAY morning father-daughter gabfest on XTRA, which was going to feature the double-talk of Dodgers' GM Paul DePodesta has been preempted by a Raiders' pregame show, featuring Vic the Brick, which tells you what the radio executives think about the father-daughter gabfest
 
#2
AleksandarN said:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers12dec12,1,1056605.column?coll=la-headlines-sports

I'm going to write two words here, and while they might disgust you, I'm going to ask you not to immediately crumple your newspaper and throw it across the room.

OK, here goes: Kobe Bryant.

There's almost nothing you can say these days as it relates to the Lakers without drawing a line in the stands between the Kobe lovers and the Kobe haters, and now here's more fodder to ponder.

Both Bryant and Karl Malone — speaking through his agent, Dwight Manley — confirmed Saturday night that they had a major falling out involving Bryant's wife, Vanessa, two weeks before the Bryant radio interview that had supposedly ticked off Malone so much.

Before Saturday night's game with the Clippers, Bryant listened as I relayed the story that's going around town, and when I finished, he said, that's true.

On Nov. 23, the night the Lakers played the Bucks at Staples Center, Vanessa was talking on the phone to Malone's wife, Kaye. Kaye gave Vanessa her husband's cellphone number, and Vanessa called Malone, who was sitting at courtside, and invited Malone's child to join her.

Malone, wearing cowboy boots and a hat, eventually took the child to Vanessa.

Malone hugged Vanessa, and then Vanessa asked — as Manley recounts this part of the story — "Hey, cowboy, what are you hunting?"

"She said it twice," Manley said, "and Karl answered the second time, 'I'm hunting for little Mexican girls.' "

After the game Vanessa told Bryant that Malone had come on to her, and said several inappropriate things. She also told Bryant that she had called Malone's wife and asked Kaye to get her husband away from her.

Bryant called Malone on his cellphone after the game, and Bryant laid into Malone. Bryant said Malone didn't have much to say in return and didn't deny anything.

What's a husband supposed to do when your wife tells you something like that? Bryant wanted to know as we talked.

Bryant said he was uncomfortable discussing the incident and he would have preferred to keep it quiet, but the New York Post reported this week that Malone was seen giving Vanessa a big hug, and then "somehow Malone managed to cross Vanessa" and got on her "frosty side."





AFTER I talked to Bryant, I relayed the same story to Manley and asked for the opportunity to talk to Malone and hear his version.

"Karl wants me to give you two messages," Manley said after calling Malone. "He never hit on Vanessa, nor would he…. In fact, when he first heard about [the accusation], he said, 'You have to be kidding me.'

"As for the comments he made to her that offended her personally, he told both her and Kobe that night that he apologized."

Manley said that after Malone apologized, "Kobe followed that with a string of threats."

Bryant said he was upset but he said that he made no threats and was only coming to the defense of his wife, and that he told Malone to stay away from his wife.

Bryant said when he did the radio interview with XTRA (690/1150) he never mentioned anything about the simmering feud between the two because he didn't want to take personal shots at Malone.

Manley said Bryant called the Malone home the next day with more threats, and that Malone's wife listened in on a speaker phone.

Bryant said that both he and his wife called the Malones the next day in an attempt to work things out but failed.

The Bryants' second-day phone call and continuing accusations infuriated Malone and that led him to effectively end his relationship with the Lakers. The subsequent radio interview with XTRA allowed the rift between the two to go public without any mention of the soap opera — until now.




KOBE BRYANT.

The other day those two words came up while the daughter and I were speaking at the all-girls Marlborough School, and when Miss Radio Personality heard them, she said, "I hate Kobe Bryant."

Many of the athletes in the room — ranging from seventh to 12th grade — began standing, cheering and applauding, which made it difficult to hear me when I told them Miss Radio Personality had no idea what she was talking about.

It's becoming tougher and tougher to defend Bryant — even in my own home.

I told Bryant right now in the estimation of many folks he's the "rat's behind of the world," although I don't think I used the word "behind," and that he appears to be losing ground in a city he once owned.

"I know," he said. "I've got to get out there with people more. I will. I'm loosening up, and I'll get better. I know what I've got to do."

I know this. He's got a lot to do if he's going to ever change the mind of Miss Radio Personality.




THE SUNDAY morning father-daughter gabfest on XTRA, which was going to feature the double-talk of Dodgers' GM Paul DePodesta has been preempted by a Raiders' pregame show, featuring Vic the Brick, which tells you what the radio executives think about the father-daughter gabfest
i dont want to register but Im guessing this is a buttkissing Kobe JA Adande Article? Kobe cant do no wrong in his eyes.:rolleyes:

Ihope MissRadio Personality gives him a swift kick in the you-know-where. What a putz!
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#5
Ya know I really don't care who's "fault" this fight is, I just love the Drama but what I will say is this:
Shaq Vs. Kobe (perenial fightduring their tenure)
Kobe Vs. his own parents
Kobe vs. Fisher, Fox et all. (not playing hard enough)
Kobe Vs. Phil (Phil calls him uncoacable and refuse to work with him)
Kobe Vs. various Hotel personal
Kobe Vs. Vanessa
Kob Vs. Malone

There IS a comon denominator in these public brawls from the land of 90210
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#6
HndsmCelt said:
Ya know I really don't care who's "fault" this fight is, I just love the Drama but what I will say is this:
Shaq Vs. Kobe (perenial fightduring their tenure)
Kobe Vs. his own parents
Kobe vs. Fisher, Fox et all. (not playing hard enough)
Kobe Vs. Phil (Phil calls him uncoacable and refuse to work with him)
Kobe Vs. various Hotel personal
Kobe Vs. Vanessa
Kob Vs. Malone

There IS a comon denominator in these public brawls from the land of 90210
I had noticed that as well. Makes it very hard to believe anything Kobe says in his own defense......."it wasn't me."
 
#7
Am I the only one to not give a crap about this topic ? I hate Malone and I hate the Lakers, so why would the two of them combined all the sudden be interesting ?
 
S

shacko

Guest
#8
HndsmCelt said:
Ya know I really don't care who's "fault" this fight is, I just love the Drama but what I will say is this:
Shaq Vs. Kobe (perenial fightduring their tenure)
Kobe Vs. his own parents
Kobe vs. Fisher, Fox et all. (not playing hard enough)
Kobe Vs. Phil (Phil calls him uncoacable and refuse to work with him)
Kobe Vs. various Hotel personal
Kobe Vs. Vanessa
Kob Vs. Malone

There IS a comon denominator in these public brawls from the land of 90210
AAAaaaahh that he is misunderstood????? Or is it that it is all their fault???
 
#10
Kobe... the worst teamate in history

Gargamel said:
The media.
You've got to be kidding right? Did the media fire Phil jackson, Trade Shaq, Make various other Lakers who were on the championship leave the team, get traded etc. Do you really believe the media made all of this up and all 8 or 9 of these guys really like Kobe?
 
#11
KP said:
You've got to be kidding right? Did the media fire Phil jackson, Trade Shaq, Make various other Lakers who were on the championship leave the team, get traded etc. Do you really believe the media made all of this up and all 8 or 9 of these guys really like Kobe?
Don't be mad at me because you are uninformed...

Jackson = not resigned by team owner ("fired" is the typical type of misinfo that is spewed by the media and eaten up by fans)

Shaq = requested a trade because team owner wouldn't give him his 3rd straight grandfathered max contract (which he has admitted a number of times, yet the media continues with the Kobe angle and it's eaten up by fans)

Various other Lakers = like who? Fisher left for an ungodly amount of money in GS. Fox and Payton were traded for a C (Fox was going to retire anyway). Malone isn't even on the team right now (although the media is trying to make it appear that way), but he's supposedly scheduled to talk with the Laker org soon.

Do I think the media made it all up? No, I think they make up the reasons all these people went their separate ways. They take the juciest plausible explanations and go with them as if they're fact. Eventually, perception becomes reality. There may be a kernel of truth to some of the allegations. For example, Jackson was peeved at Bryant and wanted him traded, but to say that Bryant got him "fired" is patently false and you didn't know any better because you were fed that by the media. The fact is that Jerry Buss is his own man and makes his own decisions. Elgin Baylor said on LA radio that Kobe had verbally committed to the Clippers long after Shaq and Jackson were gone only to sign with the Lakers at the last minute. Now how do you explain that away if he purposely got rid of Shaq and Jackson?
 
#12
Gargamel said:
Don't be mad at me because you are uninformed...

Jackson = not resigned by team owner ("fired" is the typical type of misinfo that is spewed by the media and eaten up by fans)

Shaq = requested a trade because team owner wouldn't give him his 3rd straight grandfathered max contract (which he has admitted a number of times, yet the media continues with the Kobe angle and it's eaten up by fans)

Various other Lakers = like who? Fisher left for an ungodly amount of money in GS. Fox and Payton were traded for a C (Fox was going to retire anyway). Malone isn't even on the team right now (although the media is trying to make it appear that way), but he's supposedly scheduled to talk with the Laker org soon.

Do I think the media made it all up? No, I think they make up the reasons all these people went their separate ways. They take the juciest plausible explanations and go with them as if they're fact. Eventually, perception becomes reality. There may be a kernel of truth to some of the allegations. For example, Jackson was peeved at Bryant and wanted him traded, but to say that Bryant got him "fired" is patently false and you didn't know any better because you were fed that by the media. The fact is that Jerry Buss is his own man and makes his own decisions. Elgin Baylor said on LA radio that Kobe had verbally committed to the Clippers long after Shaq and Jackson were gone only to sign with the Lakers at the last minute. Now how do you explain that away if he purposely got rid of Shaq and Jackson?
Have you even read Phil Jackson's book? I was fed by Phil Jackson himself ... take off the blinders....
 
#13
Another thing, this newfound sympathy for the great Phil Jackson is getting a little thick.

1969 - Butch von Breda Kolff. Lakers coach who was fired shortly after refusing to reinsert Wilt Chamberlain into Gm7 of the Finals. Once got into a locker room skirmish with Wilt. Fired for his failure to communicate with Wilt after two straight trips to the Finals.

1981 - Paul Westhead. Lakers coach who was fired 11 games into the season for his failure to communicate with Magic Johnson after leading the team to the 1980 title. Some speculate that their relationship came to a head when the Lakers lost a 3-gm series to Houston on a Magic airball on a play that was drawn up for Kareem. Magic hinted aloud that it might be best if he was traded. That was Westhead's downfall.

1990 - Pat Riley. Lakers coach who was let go due to the burnout of himself and his team, who became resentful towards his grinding workouts. A good time to be reminded that he lead the Lakers to 4 titles (more than Jackson). He also happened to win the Coach Of The Year award that season.

1999 - Del Harris. Lakers coach who was fired 12 games into the season for failure to communicate with his team (which was doubly bad considering that Van Exel had been traded in order to improve morale). He was an accomplished coach who made it to the Finals in 81 and brought the Lakers out of rebuilding and won the 1995 Coach Of The Year Award.

No one is untouchable in this league. You're only as good as your most recent success. Kobe has received way too much of the blame for the departure of Jackson in comparison to other players who had noted problems with their coaches.
 
#14
KP said:
Have you even read Phil Jackson's book? I was fed by Phil Jackson himself ... take off the blinders....
You yourself need to take off the blinders and quit holding on to your perception that Kobe had Phil fired (your words).
 
#15
Phil left

We are gonna have to agree to disagree since it's all about perception anyway, but I will say this, Phil is gone.. It has a lot more to do with Kobe than money, and that should be obvious. Same with Shaq the fact both these guys could no longer work with him (because of his attitude) is obvious at least to me. That being said, how many more things are gonna have to happen before you quit sticking up for your boy. If Lamar Odom gets run out will you believe then? At least your die hard .. more than I can say about some Kings fans...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#16
Drama... drama... drama. How appropriate that it's coming from La-La Land.

I would like to bring up one thing. If there was a discussion of this type going on at a Lakers fan board about one of the Kings and a Kings fan tried to defend his/her player with the loyalty Gargamel has shown here, s/he would be run off the board as a Kings homer. I want to thank people for keeping this civil, even though the viewpoints are diametrically opposed.

:D
 
#17
KP said:
We are gonna have to agree to disagree since it's all about perception anyway, but I will say this, Phil is gone.. It has a lot more to do with Kobe than money, and that should be obvious. Same with Shaq the fact both these guys could no longer work with him (because of his attitude) is obvious at least to me. That being said, how many more things are gonna have to happen before you quit sticking up for your boy. If Lamar Odom gets run out will you believe then? At least your die hard .. more than I can say about some Kings fans...
I'll agree with you on the specific point you made about Jackson (because that's more fair than saying Kobe got him fired). But Shaq is a different story. Shaq was money all the way. You may not have the slightest idea of how much Shaq can make over the next few years under the provisions of the old bargaining agreement. He wasn't about to take a paycut and when he was offered one, he demanded a trade to a list of specified teams. It's mindboggling to me how people forget that.

I'm not sticking up for my boy just because. I'm doing it because there are a lot of lingering misconceptions that bug me. You won't hear me say that Kobe doesn't have his problems. I can list what I think they are if you want me to, but I find that people who disliked the Lakers in the past are all of a sudden overlooking Shaq and Jax's foibles in their haste to castigate Bryant.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#18
Gargamel - For the record, I have never liked Shaq, which you know, and I was never that impressed with Phil "Zen Master" Jackson. I have, on the other hand, OFTEN commented on my respect for Kobe Bryant and his skills on the court.

What made me change my mind? Kobe himself. His attitude since "the event" has struck me as being that of someone who doesn't really believe he should be judged by mere mortals in anything he says or does. He is smug, arrogant, egomaniacal and self-absorbed to the point of myopia. In the long run, from my viewpoint up here in the forest, I firmly believe it will HURT the Lakers much more than it helps them. It might not be your opinion but I think you should realize there are a LOT of people who, from a distance, see it the same way. Are we right? Are you right? Only time will tell.
 
#19
VF21 said:
Drama... drama... drama. How appropriate that it's coming from La-La Land.

I would like to bring up one thing. If there was a discussion of this type going on at a Lakers fan board about one of the Kings and a Kings fan tried to defend his/her player with the loyalty Gargamel has shown here, s/he would be run off the board as a Kings homer. I want to thank people for keeping this civil, even though the viewpoints are diametrically opposed.

:D
We'd first have to find a Kings fan who would do such a thing. They are pretty rare over at those sites. I will say this though: Man In Black. Unabashed Spurs homer/stealth troll who's got thousands of posts at LG and LT. You're welcome to join and a ton of Lakers fans would tell you the same, but it's hard defending a player the other side hates, take it from me. We've also got our preconceived notions about Webber, Bibby, etc.
 
#20
[font=&quot]
KP said:
We are gonna have to agree to disagree since it's all about perception anyway, but I will say this, Phil is gone.. It has a lot more to do with
KP said:
[font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot] than money, and that should be obvious. Same with Shaq the fact both these guys could no longer work with him (because of his attitude) is obvious at least to me. That being said, how many more things are gonna have to happen before you quit sticking up for your boy. If Lamar Odom gets run out will you believe then? At least your die hard .. more than I can say about some Kings fans...
No offense, but you clearly haven't followed the situation, at all. Phil himself said that he believed [/font][font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot] had nothing to do with him not being resigned. He even said he understood why Buss decided to resign [/font][font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot] and trade Shaq, and that he might do the same thing in the same situation.

Shaq has also said the same thing, that Kupchak and Buss had far more to do with him being traded than [/font][font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot]. Of course, let's not forget Shaq asked to be traded in the first place.

The theories that [/font][font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot] somehow orchestrated all of this were cute in July, but they've been thoroughly debunked since. If you'd like more examples, I'd be willing to list why it's literally illogical to think [/font][font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot] orchestrated the breakup. At worst, he was one of three egos that couldn't coexist with the other two. That much can't be denied.
[/font]
[/font]
 
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#21
KA_2 said:
[font=&quot] No offense, but you clearly haven't followed the situation, at all. Phil himself said that he believed [font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot] had nothing to do with him not being resigned. He even said he understood why Buss decided to resign [/font][font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot] and trade Shaq, and that he might do the same thing in the same situation.

Shaq has also said the same thing, that Kupchak and Buss had far more to do with him being traded than [/font][font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot]. Of course, let's not forget Shaq asked to be traded in the first place.

The theories that [/font][font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot] somehow orchestrated all of this were cute in July, but they've been thoroughly debunked since. If you'd like more examples, I'd be willing to list why it's literally illogical to think [/font][font=&quot]Kobe[/font][font=&quot] orchestrated the breakup. At worst, he was one of three egos that couldn't coexist with the other two. That much can't be denied.
[/font]
[/font]
No I don't disagree with you, Buss and Kupchchak made all the decisions BECAUSE of conversations they had with Kobe. Whatever... Karma has taken it's effect. Good luck making the playoffs.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#22
Gargy your appoligies for the Kobster would hold a little more H2O if Phil or Shag had a single nice thing to say aobut the boy wonder. Lets fance it neither of them want to ever work with Kobe again and they have let the wole palnet know it. As I have said in other post not one former associate of Kobe's has ANYTHING nice to say about him. Cold and calucualting adulterer is as nice as it gets. Take it and cut your losses trying to defend the punk on this web site.
 
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#23
HndsmCelt said:
Gargy your appoligies for the Kobster would hold a little more H2O if Phil or Shag had a single nice thing to say aobut the boy wonder.
:lol: Yeah, right, Celt. Like you were hanging on their words before they left the Lakers. Mr. Sacramento Queens and Mr. Semi-Civilized Hicks...

Lets fance it neither of them want to ever work with Kobe again and they have let the wole palnet know it. As I have said in other post not one former associate of Kobe's has ANYTHING nice to say about him. Cold and calucualting iadulterer is as nice as it gets. Take it anad cut your losses trying to defend the punk on this web site.
I'm not defending him so much as erasing misconceptions.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#24
Ah, but we are so fond of our misconceptions, Gargy! They've helped us through many long lean years.

;)

Ya know I luv ya, right???

Check out the new thread in the Lounge...

:D
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#25
If you want to "erase missconceptions" about Kobe you would do better to expalin who he is and what he is doing, rather than snipe at particualrs of verbage that you find unnrealistic. In short if the opinion that Kobe has edged or pushed out every member of the organization that stood between him and being the undisputed team leader, is inaccurate, then by all means bring some new information to light (with links plaese) But arguing the semantics of Kobe getting rid of Phil Vs. Phil not being hired back is it's self missleading.
 
#26
HndsmCelt said:
If you want to "erase missconceptions" about Kobe you would do better to expalin who he is and what he is doing, rather than snipe at particualrs of verbage that you find unnrealistic. In short if the opinion that Kobe has edged or pushed out every member of the organization that stood between him and being the undisputed team leader, is inaccurate, then by all means bring some new information to light (with links plaese) But arguing the semantics of Kobe getting rid of Phil Vs. Phil not being hired back is it's self missleading.
We shouldn't presume to know who he really is, which is exactly what the media does and the fans buy into -- which is exactly what causes misconceptions. There have been many people who've both praised and criticized Kobe.

As far as bringing light to him not pushing Shaq and Jackson out, I've been doing that all day now. Shaq and Phil were on SportsCenter last Sunday saying why they really left. Nothing semantic about it. The same reasons I gave for them leaving came directly out of the pusses of Shaq, Phil, and Buss -- right there in living color on the boob tube. You were too busy reading Dostoevsky, right? ;)
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#29
Ah, so this is going to become a literary thread - a discussion of 20th century Russian novelists?

Mea culpa ... again.

I'll leave your gentlemen to your discussion. I'm presuming there will be brandy and cigars on the veranda at some point?