The Sabonis Thread

hrdboild said:
Translation: If you want the foul, you HAVE to flop. How far we've come since curtailing blatant flopping was a "point of emphasis".
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And the problem is Domas is stronger than pretty much everybody in the NBA (Sans like Steven Adams) and actually plays through contact. He's not some weenie that flops every chance he gets.

Does anyone really think if KD was in that situation and Fox jumped on his back like that, there would be no call? Just hypocrisy at its finest.
 
ockingsfan said:
Even more ridiculous that Sabonis wasn't an All-Star this year! He literally leads the league in double-doubles, triple doubles and rebounding.

Pathetic by the NBA coaches for not selecting him into the All-Star game! :mad:
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their will always be a group of NBA people who absolutely hate Sabonis’s game and another group that love his game. I think Sabonis is probably one of the more polarizing figures in the game because he gives no rim protection and doesn’t stretch the floor but he has great counting stats. Also defense in your center is really important.

I’m not going to argue whether he is all-Star or not but I will post this podcast where Nate Duncan talks about him as one of the worst contracts in the NBA. It simply represents a school of thought that exists whether we like it or not…..

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274760/Duncd-On-Worst-Contracts-in-the-NBA-2024
 
sactowndog said:
their will always be a group of NBA people who absolutely hate Sabonis’s game and another group that love his game. I think Sabonis is probably one of the more polarizing figures in the game because he gives no rim protection and doesn’t stretch the floor but he has great counting stats. Also defense in your center is really important.

I’m not going to argue whether he is all-Star or not but I will post this podcast where Nate Duncan talks about him as one of the worst contracts in the NBA. It simply represents a school of thought that exists whether we like it or not…..

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274760/Duncd-On-Worst-Contracts-in-the-NBA-2024
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Nate Duncan is also a giant wet noodle who somehow had never been wrong in his life. All these dudes are trying SO hard to victory lap Sabonis-Hali and they can't without looking like total jackasses.

And the answer is a resound yes to him being an all star. There isn't a metric on earth or if you watch more than 30 seconds of him play that says otherwise.
 
It doesn't matter if Domas stats check some weenie's stat sheet as "counting stats" or some other metric they've made up. It doesn't matter if he passes some other test that shows he's a liability on the floor, blah blah. The most important stat is wins and he passes the winning test.

I don't know what happened to him on other 7/8 seed out of real contention range teams in the playoffs before he joined the Kings but I do know that after the stomp he was reffed differently in the remaining 5 games of the series and that played a major contribution to the Kings losing to the Warriors.

If the refs protected and treated him the same way as they did other "offense only" players 6'9 and taller he'd probably have better defensive metrics to show for getting blocks and shots defended instead of lame fouls or being forced to avoid contact.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
It doesn't matter if Domas stats check some weenie's stat sheet as "counting stats" or some other metric they've made up. It doesn't matter if he passes some other test that shows he's a liability on the floor, blah blah. The most important stat is wins and he passes the winning test.

I don't know what happened to him on other 7/8 seed out of real contention range teams in the playoffs before he joined the Kings but I do know that after the stomp he was reffed differently in the remaining 5 games of the series and that played a major contribution to the Kings losing to the Warriors.

If the refs protected and treated him the same way as they did other "offense only" players 6'9 and taller he'd probably have better defensive metrics to show for getting blocks and shots defended instead of lame fouls or being forced to avoid contact.
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Okay it gets old be the other side ……

but one of the main criticisms of Sabonis is he can’t lead you to wins in the play-offs. So far that criticism has held as every team of his has lost in the first round. If Sabonis wins in the playoffs like Jokic those criticisms will go away but for now every year it’s a “I told you so”.

and Sabonis doesn’t even try for blocks. It’s one reason his rebounds are high because he never gets out of position trying to block the shot.

I love Sabonis but good lord this board sometimes doesn’t even try to be objective and thoughtful.
 
We're not IN the playoffs without Sabonis.

He was completely taken out of the series by the refs last year after the stomp (also clearly laboring as a result of the stomp). That was really the first time he played for a team that probably should have won their series and the only time he played with HCA since 2020 was the COVID year and the playoffs were held in Florida.

2017 OKC 6 seed vs Rockets (lost to SAS in 2nd round)
2018 IND 5 seed vs Cavs (lost in Finals to GSW)
2019 IND 5 seed vs Celtics (lost to Bucks in 2nd round)
2020 IND 4 seed vs. Heat (lost in NBA Finals to LAL, also COVID year)

If he underperforms this year I'll accept the criticism.
 
sactowndog said:
Okay it gets old be the other side ……

but one of the main criticisms of Sabonis is he can’t lead you to wins in the play-offs. So far that criticism has held as every team of his has lost in the first round. If Sabonis wins in the playoffs like Jokic those criticisms will go away but for now every year it’s a “I told you so”.

and Sabonis doesn’t even try for blocks. It’s one reason his rebounds are high because he never gets out of position trying to block the shot.

I love Sabonis but good lord this board sometimes doesn’t even try to be objective and thoughtful.
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Fair to say we didn't get a real look at Domas in the playoffs last year?

Broken finger for 3 months.
-Stomped on by Draymond, roughly like game 3 right? Bruised Sternum
-Black Eye in what.. game 5 or 6?

Despite all that, despite Fox breaking his finger and clearly not being the same after it, despite HB and Huerter forgetting how to play basketball, we took the defending champs to 7 games.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
We're not IN the playoffs without Sabonis.

He was completely taken out of the series by the refs last year after the stomp (also clearly laboring as a result of the stomp). That was really the first time he played for a team that probably should have won their series and the only time he played with HCA since 2020 was the COVID year and the playoffs were held in Florida.

2017 OKC 6 seed vs Rockets (lost to SAS in 2nd round)
2018 IND 5 seed vs Cavs (lost in Finals to GSW)
2019 IND 5 seed vs Celtics (lost to Bucks in 2nd round)
2020 IND 4 seed vs. Heat (lost in NBA Finals to LAL, also COVID year)

If he underperforms this year I'll accept the criticism.
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I don’t disagree about we aren’t in without him.
 
The_Jamal said:
Fair to say we didn't get a real look at Domas in the playoffs last year?

Broken finger for 3 months.
-Stomped on by Draymond, roughly like game 3 right? Bruised Sternum
-Black Eye in what.. game 5 or 6?

Despite all that, despite Fox breaking his finger and clearly not being the same after it, despite HB and Huerter forgetting how to play basketball, we took the defending champs to 7 games.
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again I’m pro Sabonis and am not particularly interested in taking the other side here. But enough people who know basketball have significant reservations about his game. They aren’t all idiots or anti Kings as many on this board would want you to believe.

Hopefully for all of us Sabonis proves them wrong. I share season tickets, I want to go to a 2nd round playoff game.
 
sactowndog said:
I don’t disagree about we aren’t in without him.
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Do you disagree with my (and Jamal's) assertion that we didn't get a fair look at Sabonis last year? And that maybe in years prior he wasn't expected to advance beyond the first round?

I'm not petitioning him to be all defense or anything, just that many of the knocks on the guy seem undeserved.
If he averages .5 blocks per game, that is about half (.9) of all the centers around the league this season. So not great. But on the flip side of the coin, I can't translate that to just starters vs. guys who are crazy block specialists. Sabonis is listed at 6'10" so even if he was dedicating himself to get blocks is he going to average 2 a game? Doubtful.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Do you disagree with my (and Jamal's) assertion that we didn't get a fair look at Sabonis last year? And that maybe in years prior he wasn't expected to advance beyond the first round?

I'm not petitioning him to be all defense or anything, just that many of the knocks on the guy seem undeserved.
If he averages .5 blocks per game, that is about half (.9) of all the centers around the league this season. So not great. But on the flip side of the coin, I can't translate that to just starters vs. guys who are crazy block specialists. Sabonis is listed at 6'10" so even if he was dedicating himself to get blocks is he going to average 2 a game? Doubtful.
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He played all year with the thumb so hard to say it was a show stopper. I don’t have enough data on the stomp impacts to know for sure.

Sabonis lacks length so going for blocks is problematic. He just doesn’t have the tools. Blocks aren’t just about the ones you get bet also the shots you alter. Now if Sabonis could play on the perimeter you could play another player with him but at .9 3 point shots a game he doesn’t do that either. It’s that combination which makes some basketball personnel concerned and not fans.
 
sactowndog said:
again I’m pro Sabonis and am not particularly interested in taking the other side here. But enough people who know basketball have significant reservations about his game. They aren’t all idiots or anti Kings as many on this board would want you to believe.

Hopefully for all of us Sabonis proves them wrong. I share season tickets, I want to go to a 2nd round playoff game.
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Dude, I do not care about your appeal to authority or your one former NBA exec friend. I have a former NBA executive friend that's one of the analytics leads at BBALL Index. He's talked to me recently about how great Domas is and he doesn't understand the hate and criticism he's get. And that he's just awesome. So two can play that game.

It really is because he's a mold-breaker of what everyone think successful basketball players look like in the year 2024. Hali personifies everything they think a successful basketball player is. Simple as that. Despite tremendous offensive impact from both players. He's not Jokic on offense, so he's not "right" in for the modern game. And he's not Embiid/Bam/AD on defense, so he couldn't possibly be good enough to be considered as impactful as them.

If/when the Kings are in the 2nd round, I'm sure the Domas detractors will continue to find ways to diminish what he's accomplishing in a Kings uniform.
 
sactowndog said:
He played all year with the thumb so hard to say it was a show stopper. I don’t have enough data on the stomp impacts to know for sure.

Sabonis lacks length so going for blocks is problematic. He just doesn’t have the tools. Blocks aren’t just about the ones you get bet also the shots you alter. Now if Sabonis could play on the perimeter you could play another player with him but at .9 3 point shots a game he doesn’t do that either. It’s that combination which makes some basketball personnel concerned and not fans.
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It's reasonable to say Domas will play better without a broken thumb. Actually, he's proving it this year with him improving his play on last season.

It's reasonable to say Domas will play better without a bruised Sternum. A quick google search shows it's more difficult to take a full or deep breath. Seems important for a basketball player no?

It's reasonable to say Domas will play better without a black eye. Being able to see properly seems important in the game of basketball.
 
The_Jamal said:
Dude, I do not care about your appeal to authority or your one former NBA exec friend. I have a former NBA executive friend that's one of the analytics leads at BBALL Index. He's talked to me recently about how great Domas is and he doesn't understand the hate and criticism he's get. And that he's just awesome. So two can play that game.

It really is because he's a mold-breaker of what everyone think successful basketball players look like in the year 2024. Hali personifies everything they think a successful basketball player is. Simple as that. Despite tremendous offensive impact from both players. He's not Jokic on offense, so he's not "right" in for the modern game. And he's not Embiid/Bam/AD on defense, so he couldn't possibly be good enough to be considered as impactful as them.

If/when the Kings are in the 2nd round, I'm sure the Domas detractors will continue to find ways to diminish what he's accomplishing in a Kings uniform.
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again I said Domas was probably the most polarizing. Just a note polarizing means some absolutely love him and some hate him.

so your friend loves him. That doesn’t exactly negate my point. But of course everyone who doesn’t agree with you is an idiot.
 
sactowndog said:
again I said Domas was probably the most polarizing. Just a note polarizing means some absolutely love him and some hate him.

so your friend loves him. That doesn’t exactly negate my point. But of course everyone who doesn’t agree with you is an idiot.
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So do you wanna state that if Kings will underachieve this season then the main and biggest problem will be Sabonis? Haters gona hate and no need to affected by some crazy opinions ...
 
sactowndog said:
again I said Domas was probably the most polarizing. Just a note polarizing means some absolutely love him and some hate him.

so your friend loves him. That doesn’t exactly negate my point. But of course everyone who doesn’t agree with you is an idiot.
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"I'm just point out that this exists!" is a lame point. If you didn't believe it, why would you point it out? Why would any of us care what a wet noodle like Nate Duncan thinks? He's a lazy "smart" analyst and anyone who listens to him ramble figures that out very quickly. First and foremost, we're Kings fans that roots for our team. Of course I'm not going to be fully optimal in my thinking about this team. I love being a Kings fan and rooting for this squad. But guess what, the analytical side of me also recognizes how incredible impactful Domas is through a bevy of numbers. And how basically the second he's arrived here with Brown, we're a winning team. Those are irrefutable.
 
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Remi said:
So do you wanna state that if Kings will underachieve this season then the main and biggest problem will be Sabonis? Haters gona hate and no need to affected by some crazy opinions ...
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no I think Sabonis is playing to and maybe above his potential.

People in the business are either compensated by how they feel a player can or can’t help you win a championship. Or Reporters are compensated on communicating that opinion. People aren’t hating when they are basically doing their job.
 
The_Jamal said:
"I'm just point out that this exists!" is a lame point. If you didn't believe it, why would you point it out? Why would any of us care what a wet noodle like Nate Duncan thinks? He's a lazy "smart" analyst and anyone who listens to him ramble figures that out very quickly. First and foremost, we're Kings fans that roots for our team. Of course I'm not going to be fully optimal in my thinking about this team. I love being a Kings fan and rooting for this squad. But guess what, the analytical side of me also recognizes how incredible impactful Domas is through a bevy of numbers. And how basically the second he's arrived here with Brown, we're a winning team. Those are irrefutable.
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because this board is often so one sided and lacks any balanced perspective sometimes things need to be said. Certain people take delight in driving away those who don’t agree and it’s an attitude that bugs me. You see it with increasing frequency these days in all aspects of life.

and yes it is irrefutable that Sabonis has helped this team win in the regular system. It is also irrefutable that Sabonis has not made it past the first round of the play-offs. Now it could be due to injuries or it could be his game can be stopped offensively and exploited defensively in the playoffs when teams have more time to prepare.

Him improving from 3 and at the line will go a long way to changing that perspective. If he takes and makes 3+ a game at over 36% that will go a long way. Especially in the play-offs where giving Sabonis the 3 and helping off him will be the game plan.
 
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