The one AND ONLY "Fire Adelman" thread for 05-06

[UclaKingsFan]

A Championship is what we have ALL hoped and prayed etc for. This team isn't it, by a long shot. At this point, hell yea, I'd settle for an above average team and 50 wins. Hell yeah. Far better than losing the majority of your regular season games, or not making the play offs at all. If you really think a different coach would all the sudden transform this team into a Championship contender, I really don't know what to say.

I think everyone would rather the Kings win the majority of their games rather than losing them. I'm always happy when the Kings win, and I loved the 2 year stretch when they were at the top of their game. However, I do think a coach with a different mentality would be able to get more out of the team. A tougher coach wouldn't tolerate Peja's unwillingness to dive for loose balls or crash the boards. A tougher coach wouldn't tolerate Thomas' whining over playing time. A tougher coach wouldn't tolerate the majority of the team refusing to play team defense. There is a reason Adelman is classified as a player's coach. He's too soft. Take a look at the recent list of coaches who have brought home the trophy. Brown, Popovich, Jackson. They aren't afraid to ruffle somebody's feathers, and they don't tolerate soft play or mental lapses in play like Adelman does. Granted, Adelman's style does have its upside, but the downside is costing the team in the post season. I honestly wish it were different. I appreciate that Adelman helped put Sacramento on the basketball map, and God knows that wasn't an easy thing to do. But if you aren't moving forward, you're moving backwards. And while a different coach may not necessarily turn this current squad into championship contenders, he would at least get them moving in the right direction with a tougher mindset and a commitment to defense, toughness, and effort.

 

[VF21]

ONEZERO - I seriously doubt if Rick Adelman would accept an extension if it was offered to him. The man is a top NBA coach. There are any number of teams who would be very happy to have him, and the Maloofs may have burned their bridge when they talked to Jackson behind Adelman's back.

People act like it's only the Maloofs decision. It's not. Adelman can decline an offer - and I strongly suspect he will.

 

[KP]

And while a different coach may not necessarily turn this current squad into championship contenders, he "would" at least get them moving in the right direction with a tougher mindset and a commitment to defense, toughness, and effort.

Change the "would" in that sentence to "could" or "probably wouldn't" and it might make that sentence true. Making changes just to make them=bad idea

 

[ONEZERO]

the problem with the kings-although sounds really silly- is the fact that everything and everyone surrounding them is too nice. the coaches are too nice. the players are too nice. the owners are too nice. the fans are too nice, etc... nobody rattles them and makes them get their heads on straight. its hard to get a reality check when nobody gets on your case. a tough minded coach can do that. while the fans and owners may be too nice, if the coach is an *******, then it can transform the players mentality into a strong willed mentality.

 

[UclaKingsFan]

Making changes just to make them=bad idea

Responding to posts without reading them=bad idea. I am very clearly citing the reasons why I think we need a coaching change. I am not simply advocating change for the sake of change. I respect and can appreciate the validity of the posts that are opposing mine, as long as they have also taken the time to read what I've said before responding.

 

[VF21]

My MAIN complaint about this thread is that it is IMHO too early. Adelman is in the last year of his contract; we have an entirely new look to our team. Why not wait, just a little, and see what Adelman can do? Two games does not a season make...

If Adelman can't get through to the players - or they just don't seem to be getting the message - by the All-Star break, then perhaps it is time for him to move on.

Personally, I just think Rick Adelman has earned a little better treatment and consideration than he's getting from some people on this board.

 

[ONEZERO]

ONEZERO - I seriously doubt if Rick Adelman would accept an extension if it was offered to him. The man is a top NBA coach. There are any number of teams who would be very happy to have him, and the Maloofs may have burned their bridge when they talked to Jackson behind Adelman's back.

People act like it's only the Maloofs decision. It's not. Adelman can decline an offer - and I strongly suspect he will.

homestly, i wouldnt really complain. honestly

 

[sloter]

My MAIN complaint about this thread is that it is IMHO too early. Adelman is in the last year of his contract; we have an entirely new look to our team. Why not wait, just a little, and see what Adelman can do? Two games does not a season make...

If Adelman can't get through to the players - or they just don't seem to be getting the message - by the All-Star break, then perhaps it is time for him to move on.

Personally, I just think Rick Adelman has earned a little better treatment and consideration than he's getting from some people on this board.

Of course it is too early for this year, but if the Kings don't play up to their expecations by mid season, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets fired.

 

[thesanityannex]

VF21-


You and I both know all Adelman needs is some red gatorade.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I also disagree that a more strict coach couldn't alter the mentality of this team. If someone is soft, bench him, if Pedja plays soft, don't give him 40 mins a game. Give him 5. Next time he's on the court, in his contract year, he'll make sure to dive for the loose balls.

Either that, or he'll cry to his buddy Joe, and get the coach fired; I know which likelihood I'd have my money on...

Not only am I certain that a "disciplinarian" couldn't get through to this particular collection of players, but I'm so certain of it, that I'd almost like to see it happen, just for the train wreck; I'd expect the "unintentional comedy" value to be off the scale.

 

[KP]

I am very clearly citing the reasons why I think we need a coaching change.

And I am very clearly citing the reasons why you are wrong. A new coach won't just automatically make this team tougher or better. More than likely given Adelmans track record they would probably do worse. You say you like Adelman but as your grand total of posts has climbed they've gotten bashier and bashier, ending with the typical "soft" bash at the end there. Adelman will never win a championship, the Kings will never win a championship because his system doesn't work in the playoffs... give it a rest. This team came within some missed free throws of the NBA Finals and most probably an NBA title. His system was good enough to get that team in a position to win but they choked their free throws. How was that his fault exactly? The fact is this team has showed some toughness and had their share of post season success these past few years, which you will see when they can't even make the playoffs any more. You'll be praying for some of Adelmans "soft" coaching then.

 

[uolj]

Someone please explain where the team has underachieved in the post-season, and where Adelman's coaching contributed to that underachievement.

Someone please explain how Adelman could be so bad at emphasizing defense, yet still have one of the best defenses in the league for several years in a row, including the #2 defense in the year his team was favored to win the championship.

The reality is that there at least as many reasons to fire him (for several years now) as there are to keep him.

I've seen people say this, and I've seen people give their reasons, but I've yet to see somebody defend those reasons when obvious flaws in the reasoning are pointed out.

Sure there are real reasons why another coach might do better, but I rarely see them mentioned.

 

[UclaKingsFan]

My MAIN complaint about this thread is that it is IMHO too early. Adelman is in the last year of his contract; we have an entirely new look to our team. Why not wait, just a little, and see what Adelman can do? Two games does not a season make...

If Adelman can't get through to the players - or they just don't seem to be getting the message - by the All-Star break, then perhaps it is time for him to move on.

Personally, I just think Rick Adelman has earned a little better treatment and consideration than he's getting from some people on this board.

I agree with you on this point. If people want to fire Adelman solely because of the team's performance in these first two games, then it is way too early to be making that kind of assessment. Two games does not a season make.
I'm curious though, if for some reason (and I don't believe this will happen), the team did not improve its performance over the course of the season at all, at what point would RA's supporters decide to let Adelman go, or would you let him ride the season out in its entirety, whether it be because he's earned at least that much or you think he'll be gone at the end of the season anyway?

 

[Coach]

UCLAKingsfan, I agree with a lot of what you say.

But I disagree with your overall assessment of Rick Adelman as a coach. He is a terrific coach. It is no coincidence that his teams consistently win and that, for the most part, players who play for him perform at much higher levels than they did ever before or after playing for Adelman (Drexler, Duckworth, Webber, Christie, Bibby, Jackson, Miller, Pollard).

But I do agree with you that he has his weaknesses. He does defer to the veterans too much. And he is not a "take charge" type coach -- he is much more the "players' coach." Sometimes, if a team has grown a little complacent, a more authoritarian approach can shake things up, in a positive fashion.

Therefore, if Adelman gets fired, it won't be because he is not a great coach. It will be because a different style is needed. The worst thing we could do would be to fire him and replace him with another "players' coach", like Elston Turner or Wayne Cooper. If we make a change, we need someone to come in and kick some ***. Unfortunately, Pat Riley is unavailable. But Eric Musselman comes to mind.

 

[VF21]

I agree with you on this point. If people want to fire Adelman solely because of the team's performance in these first two games, then it is way too early to be making that kind of assessment. Two games does not a season make.
I'm curious though, if for some reason (and I don't believe this will happen), the team did not improve its performance over the course of the season at all, at what point would RA's supporters decide to let Adelman go, or would you let him ride the season out in its entirety, whether it be because he's earned at least that much or you think he'll be gone at the end of the season anyway?

Interestingly enough - and somewhat ironically - if you would have read my post carefully (the one you quoted), you would have seen that I answered your question.

This thread is simply premature, whether you're fan of Adelman's or not. The man has earned the right to a decent opportunity to show what he can do with all the new talent on the team.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

UCLAKingsfan, I agree with a lot of what you say.

But I disagree with your overall assessment of Rick Adelman as a coach. He is a terrific coach. It is no coincidence that his teams consistently win and that, for the most part, players who play for him perform at much higher levels than they did ever before or after playing for Adelman (Drexler, Duckworth, Webber, Christie, Bibby, Jackson, Miller, Pollard).

But I do agree with you that he has his weaknesses. He does defer to the veterans too much. And he is not a "take charge" type coach -- he is much more the "players' coach." Sometimes, if a team has grown a little complacent, a more authoritarian approach can shake things up, in a positive fashion.

Therefore, if Adelman gets fired, it won't be because he is not a great coach. It will be because a different style is needed. The worst thing we could do would be to fire him and replace him with another "players' coach", like Elston Turner or Wayne Cooper. If we make a change, we need someone to come in and kick some ***. Unfortunately, Pat Riley is unavailable. But Eric Musselman comes to mind.

Fair enough, and I can at least agree with you on principle... but Eric Musselman? He couldn't even keep Golden State in line; why would a team of disgruntled and disillusioned veteran players listen to him?

 

[KP]

E Muss....

 

[KP]

Someone please explain where the team has underachieved in the post-season, and where Adelman's coaching contributed to that underachievement.

Someone please explain how Adelman could be so bad at emphasizing defense, yet still have one of the best defenses in the league for several years in a row, including the #2 defense in the year his team was favored to win the championship.
I've seen people say this, and I've seen people give their reasons, but I've yet to see somebody defend those reasons when obvious flaws in the reasoning are pointed out.

Sure there are real reasons why another coach might do better, but I rarely see them mentioned.

Anyone? Anyone? Good post Uolj, though I doubt you'll get a response.

 

[Coach]

Musselman did finish second to Greg Popovich in NBA Coach of the Year voting in 2002-03.

http://www.nba.com/news/coy_030428.html

 

[thesanityannex]

And, once again, I have to wonder: If not Adelman, who exactly is it that will come in and work the miracle that will transform this team into CHAMPIONS!!
.

Bill Belichick

 

[UclaKingsFan]

And I am very clearly citing the reasons why you are wrong. A new coach won't just automatically make this team tougher or better. More than likely given Adelmans track record they would probably do worse. You say you like Adelman but as your grand total of posts has climbed they've gotten bashier and bashier, ending with the typical "soft" bash at the end there. Adelman will never win a championship, the Kings will never win a championship because his system doesn't work in the playoffs... give it a rest. This team came within some missed free throws of the NBA Finals and most probably an NBA title. His system was good enough to get that team in a position to win but they choked their free throws. How was that his fault exactly? The fact is this team has showed some toughness and had their share of post season success these past few years, which you will see when they can't even make the playoffs any more. You'll be praying for some of Adelmans "soft" coaching then.

This is a much better post than saying "making changes just to make them=bad idea." This isn't a disgusting Lakers board, so you'll have to excuse me if I hold everyone here to a higher standard. God knows I get my fill of inane, empty headed basketball discussion while down here in SoCal.
To respond to your post, I am not bashing Adelman. If you read through the posts, I do think he has the ability to be a good coach. You can't argue with the man's track record. The man gets his teams W's. However, there is also no arguing with the fact that he can't get his teams over that championship hump. You can focus on the team's inability to make their free throws in that emotionally scarring game 7, but what about their inability to hold on to a 20 point lead on the road in game 4? What about their inability to hold on to a 10 point lead in the second half of game 7 in their own house? And yes, the missed free throws also played their part. The team choked. They couldn't handle the pressure, they couldn't tough it out. They were a direct reflection of their coach, and it absolutely killed me. No one wants the team to win more than me, whether it be under Adelman or somebody else. My only point is that I don't think the team will win a title under Adelman. That doesn't make RA a bad coach, just not a championship caliber one.

 

[thesanityannex]

Someone please explain how Adelman could be so bad at emphasizing defense, yet still have one of the best defenses in the league for several years in a row, including the #2 defense in the year his team was favored to win the championship.
.

The team he had was full of "capable" defensive players who bought into the team defense concept.

 

[Coach]

Uolj, I would agree that that Adelman has not underachieved in the post-season.

I'm not sure where you get your Adelman defensive stats though. How are you defining that? Points scored against? Opponent's field goal percentage? I don't recall Adelman ever coaching a particularly good defensive team, although he has coached some very good defensive players (Cliff Robinson and Christie, for example).

But I still stand by my earlier post.

 

[thesanityannex]

. If you read through the posts, I do think he has the ability to be a good coach. You can't argue with the man's track record. The man gets his teams W's. However, there is also no arguing with the fact that he can't get his teams over that championship hump.

not many coaches can get over the championship hump. last I recall, it has only been one coach a year.

 

[VF21]

Okay, for what it's worth:

uclakingsfan, I don't know if you're a troll or not. Time will tell. But you've helped bring one thing back - debate without insult.

I've missed that over TDOS.

I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Of course, if you ARE a Laker mole in disguise, I'll retract the above quote and run you through with a lance.

 

[KP]

Musselman did finish second to Greg Popovich in NBA Coach of the Year voting in 2002-03.

http://www.nba.com/news/coy_030428.html

http://www.nba.com/news/coy_030428.html[/quote]Coah There is a reason why he still doesn't have a coaching job even after a couple of years now and no... it's not that he finished second in the coach of the year voting in 02-03.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Musselman did finish second to Greg Popovich in NBA Coach of the Year voting in 2002-03.

http://www.nba.com/news/coy_030428.html

You'd think people'd be beating a path to his door, then...

 

[KP]

This is a much better post than saying "making changes just to make them=bad idea." This isn't a disgusting Lakers board, so you'll have to excuse me if I hold everyone here to a higher standard. God knows I get my fill of inane, empty headed basketball discussion while down here in SoCal.
To respond to your post, I am not bashing Adelman. If you read through the posts, I do think he has the ability to be a good coach. You can't argue with the man's track record. The man gets his teams W's. However, there is also no arguing with the fact that he can't get his teams over that championship hump. You can focus on the team's inability to make their free throws in that emotionally scarring game 7, but what about their inability to hold on to a 20 point lead on the road in game 4? What about their inability to hold on to a 10 point lead in the second half of game 7 in their own house? And yes, the missed free throws also played their part. The team choked. They couldn't handle the pressure, they couldn't tough it out. They were a direct reflection of their coach, and it absolutely killed me. No one wants the team to win more than me, whether it be under Adelman or somebody else. My only point is that I don't think the team will win a title under Adelman. That doesn't make RA a bad coach, just not a championship caliber one.

And what about there ability to go into LA and win aginst the toughest strongest team in the last decade in their own house? Or what about their ability to hit huge shot after huge shot ending with Bibby's winning shot in game 5, after they supposedly had their heart ripped out by Horry in game 4. Those must have also been reflections of their coach too right? You can also quit lecturing me on what to read or what to think about your posts. I can come to my own conclusions.

 

[UclaKingsFan]

Interestingly enough - and somewhat ironically - if you would have read my post carefully (the one you quoted), you would have seen that I answered your question.

This thread is simply premature, whether you're fan of Adelman's or not. The man has earned the right to a decent opportunity to show what he can do with all the new talent on the team.

I did read through your post. The question wasn't posed because I neglected to see the line where you said that perhaps it would be time to make a move if the team had not improved by the all-star break, it was posed because of it. The "perhaps" suggested that you might do it, so I was merely asking for something a little more specific. The post aroused my curiosity as to when RA supporters would be willing to change their minds is all.

To be fair, I would change my mind if I were to see RA assert more energy into our defensive game, and to reprimand his players for a lack of effort or defense. Those are the qualities that I believe can take our squad to the next level. They may not be enough to win a championship this year, but they will get us on our way.

 

[UclaKingsFan]

Okay, for what it's worth:

uclakingsfan, I don't know if you're a troll or not. Time will tell. But you've helped bring one thing back - debate without insult.

I've missed that over TDOS.


Definitely not a Laker mole. I have a broken TV and coffee table after Game 4 of the WCF to prove it. I just wanted to get in on some spirited debate about our Kings. I can't get any intelligent basketball discussions going down here in LaLa land, so I decided to throw my hat in the ring here.
And yes, it has been fun debating with you all.