L
Lopes
Guest
Sadly we keep changing our strategy which means no strategy. If it is true that Vlade and Vivek aren't on the same page about Cousins as reported, then that is very scary. Before you all flame me I said IF.
The Official We're Talking Playoffs Thread
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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Care to cite some credible sources?
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I am going to assume that you are not responding to me because of dude12's response and that the "Ignore" feature has spared me something.
I think New Orleans and Minnesota are still in the mix for the 8 seed. The Wolves have been playing a lot better since they made Ricky Rubio the primary playmaker again. Of course with him there's always a chance he gets injured and they're back to struggling with LaVine ill-suited to the PG position and Dunn not ready for a big role. New Orleans got a jolt when Tyreke started playing again. They need his firepower off the bench to stay in games and he compliments Anthony Davis. Technically Dallas, LA, and Phoenix aren't that far out either but it's harder to see those teams finding another level without making some roster changes.
Of all the "contenders" though, I think Denver has the best mix of talent so that's my prediction for who wins that final playoff spot. Portland needs to get a lot more from Harkless and Aminu to get back to the promise they showed last season. Lillard and McCollum are basically maxed out at this point, I don't see how they can play any better they already are. Aminu in particular has been a major disappointment after breaking out last year. And then there's us and the perpetual search for a reliable second banana and a knockdown shooter. Actually, the shooting hasn't been that bad. Lawson, McLemore, and Barnes are subpar but the rest of the regular rotation players have been pretty good from outside. There's some talent on this team, but they don't play well together particularly on the defensive end and there's nobody who can step up if Boogie is having an off-night. Rudy should be filling that role but he looks like he mentally checked out on the team early last season.
Of all the "contenders" though, I think Denver has the best mix of talent so that's my prediction for who wins that final playoff spot. Portland needs to get a lot more from Harkless and Aminu to get back to the promise they showed last season. Lillard and McCollum are basically maxed out at this point, I don't see how they can play any better they already are. Aminu in particular has been a major disappointment after breaking out last year. And then there's us and the perpetual search for a reliable second banana and a knockdown shooter. Actually, the shooting hasn't been that bad. Lawson, McLemore, and Barnes are subpar but the rest of the regular rotation players have been pretty good from outside. There's some talent on this team, but they don't play well together particularly on the defensive end and there's nobody who can step up if Boogie is having an off-night. Rudy should be filling that role but he looks like he mentally checked out on the team early last season.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Which must be the reason he is being actively shopped around the league right now.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-timberwolves-actively-shopping-ricky-rubio-212933973.html
Contract running out (2 years left), older than their core, injured A LOT. There are ancillary reasons for trading him. They also just drafted Dunn who's presumably their PG of the future. But this year at least they're a much better team running the offense through Rubio. Which could be a reason for trading him as well if Thibs is eyeing somebody at the top of the draft this year.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
It would do both parties some good if they parted ways, it's time for Dunn to be a full time starter. I'm anxious to watch him develop, I like his potential.
jcwkings
All-Star
Since Lillard came back they've returned back to mediocrity. Somehow they were playing much better without him.
NewArena
All-Star
we dont get blown out
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Doesn't change the fact that both teams are bad
I don't think anyone has forgotten. Philly is improving rapidly and still has a shot at making the playoffs while we're dead in the water. We could win only 10 more games the rest of the season, finish with a bottom 5 record and end up picking in the high teens anyway thanks to the pick swaps. And we still owe them another unprotected pick in 2019! This is the worst-case scenario playing out for real. Rudy Gay is no longer trade-able. Ben has torpedoed any remaining value he might have had. That's it. Nothing to trade, meager lottery prospects, no chance of luring veteran players to a 30 win team. It's a complete washout. If this actually happens I wouldn't be surprised if the league office comes up with some kind of "Vlade Divac" rule to prevent teams from trading first round draft rights to three different draft years in the same trade. That was unprecedented and now we see why.
Embiid looking like a future Hall of Famer in his rookie season, Philly finally winning a #1 overall pick last year, Rudy Gay going down with an Achilles injury a month before the trade deadline with an expiring contract pending -- the timing of all of this is just as bad as the Chris Webber injury against Dallas in the 2003 playoffs. It's been almost 14 years and we still haven't recovered from that setback. Things are looking pretty bleak. Nothing to do at this point but celebrate the beautiful new downtown arena and the fact that we still have a team to root for. For me at least, having lived through all of the re-location drama for years, that's always going to be the ultimate perspective shift. How bad can it be? We still have basketball. We may be going nowhere, but underdogs are fun to root for right?
IfAt1st
Starter
Well, that was an interesting ride this year.
But it's over now.
Any pretense at making the playoffs just went out the window tonight, after Rudy's Achilles injury and with Omri coincidentally out (again).
Nine games under .500 at the half-way point of the season, and likely only a couple wins out of the next 12 games, with the franchise likely starting to actively want to lose to keep the last draft pick.....
After the All-Star break, Demarcus will likely start some "rest games", WCS and Skal and Malachi will start seeing more play, and the tank will be on (effectively wasting the only benefit of having a tough early schedule).
Admit it, Brick - you guessed wrong on how this year was going to turn out, and you over-estimated the team's heart.
RIP, Kings 2016-2017.
But it's over now.
Any pretense at making the playoffs just went out the window tonight, after Rudy's Achilles injury and with Omri coincidentally out (again).
Nine games under .500 at the half-way point of the season, and likely only a couple wins out of the next 12 games, with the franchise likely starting to actively want to lose to keep the last draft pick.....
After the All-Star break, Demarcus will likely start some "rest games", WCS and Skal and Malachi will start seeing more play, and the tank will be on (effectively wasting the only benefit of having a tough early schedule).
Admit it, Brick - you guessed wrong on how this year was going to turn out, and you over-estimated the team's heart.
RIP, Kings 2016-2017.
giantking1355
Prospect
No they don't. They just spew out whatever makes them look smart.
That's the thing though. The Kings purposely tanking only helps the 76ers. I was censured because I thought Vlade's inexperience hurt the Kings during his early tenure, and his "gamble" seems like it may set the franchise back a couple of years.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
To be fair, he wasn't gambling on Rudy suffering a freak injury.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Thing is basically everyone who was not go all in for the sake of Cousins said that it was a terrible trade the moment in went down I was under the impression at the time that it was not as bad a move (was still against it) because it was my understanding that if the team failed again (which I thought they would) with the Karl team that Cousins would have no more excuses and be traded but off course Karl is the excuse and this seasons new excuse is Rudy is out for the year despite being 9 games under 500 (DJ could be the 16-25 GOAT n0w) since we "were about to turn the corner".
At least we got another excuse to add to the already long list
. Ref bias
. Tough schedule
. Team still adjusting from how bad Karl was
. Teams being ready for us since they were coming off a loss
. Bad roster
. Rudy Gay hurt
Oh sure, the Webber thing was much worse. We were probably the favorites to win a championship that year. I just mean that the injury when it happened felt like the worst thing possible at the worst time and in hindsight, we were never really competitive again. And in context of our current situation, losing Rudy and nosediving while Phily actually manages to start winning also feels like the worst thing possible at the worst time. Any silver lining to slipping of of the playoffs is gone.
Also, I like Rudy as a person and this is a terrible turn of events for him. Possibly career ending. I get that same knot in my stomach that I get thinking about Webber lying in a heap under the basket. For the team its the culmination of a string of bad decisions and bad luck which has seen us lose every decent player we've managed to bring in alongside Cousins effectively for nothing. You can't blame any one person. It spans multiple owners, GMs and coaches. We're just in a funk where everything we do backfires, sometimes spectacularly. The rest of the league isn't even laughing at our misfortune anymore. It's gotten so bad they just pretend we don't exist like the relative who's embarrassingly drunk at every family gathering and probably isn't going to change.
kingjatt
Starter
Moving Cousins for picks/prospects should be topic number 1 now in the front office. Does Cousins have more value now or when he is tying up 35% of the allowed cap space? He might not return as great yield as we think. I think they had a pipe dream of a healthy Cuz and Rudy duo making a playoff run this year(wishful thinking, not logical thinking) leading to Rudy re-signing but that is out of the window, the writing was already on the wall pre-injury that we were headed for a rebuild. We are now down another asset on an asset depleted team, time to go into asset acquisition mode and rent out cap space for picks and give the young guys some run. Its going to be a painful 5-7 years with no guarantee of success but its better than whatever we are doing now.
If we dont rebuild and try this signing washed up vets around cousins again then it will show the true dysfunction and ineptitude of this front office. Every single team besides the spurs has torn down and rebuilt into playoff teams or loaded with young talent since the last time we were good. With the freakin sixers possibly being better than our "veteran team" it really is time to bite the bullet.
I know Vivek wants to hold his head high around the warrior owners/silicon valley heads and all of that but nothing happens overnight and those guys took there lumps too. No more shortcuts, complete tear down and rebuild only!!
If we dont rebuild and try this signing washed up vets around cousins again then it will show the true dysfunction and ineptitude of this front office. Every single team besides the spurs has torn down and rebuilt into playoff teams or loaded with young talent since the last time we were good. With the freakin sixers possibly being better than our "veteran team" it really is time to bite the bullet.
I know Vivek wants to hold his head high around the warrior owners/silicon valley heads and all of that but nothing happens overnight and those guys took there lumps too. No more shortcuts, complete tear down and rebuild only!!
CyKings
Bench
The Kings can rebuild with Cousins. If I was Joerger, I'd play the guys who will be here for awhile (Temple, Richardson, Skal) more minutes and look towards the future. Get the young guys experience and not go for wins and to develop players. This way we get a top 10 pick and keep Cousins. What needs to be changed is how the people scouting see players. Whatever has happened the last 6 years or so in the draft is unacceptable with the amount of misses. The Kings have a star, they will likely not acquire one in FA, the draft is how they'd get a 2nd star player to pair with Cousins. For a small market, you have to be able to draft well, the Kings are one of the worst in the NBA. Until that changes, this is a ~30 win team whether Cousins stays or leaves.
kingjatt
Starter
Moving him should be a topic, whether they move forward with the plan should is on them, is one top 2-10 pick in the next 3 years (maybe) enough for Cousins to lead us to contention? what if the pick needs a few years develop or what if he busts, will we suck enough like the sixers did to keep tanking? That puts Cuz around 30-32 years old (maybe older) and on the downside without having made the playoffs once.
This roster and asset base is so depleted (who has less assets than us?) that a build around Cuz before he gets old is again wishful thinking and another attempt at a shortcut. My thinking is that the amount of talent required and development time needed might put us at the tail end of Cuz's prime all while possibly not landing that top pick with Cuz helping us pick up more wins than we should.
Sure we have our star and we love him and its tough to see him go but in terms of pure team building the discussion to move him needs to be had. The whole situation needs to be thought out carefully, which leads to another issue, do we have a front office that is capable(to make a trade for cuz) and be patient enough to see a rebuild thru?
CyKings
Bench
I don't necessarily disagree with you. Whether they trade Cousins or not, the Kings have to do better in the draft. The only players really left to judge is WCS (looking more like a bust) and the three rookies, who have not been able to crack the rotation. There needs to be changes to how they scout players and what they are looking for. The past 6 years prove something is not working and they need to reassess how they look at players. Until then, the Kings will be in mediocrity.
If they traded Cousins for 2 firsts and a young player or two, are you confident the front office would make the picks to help the rebuild? Based off of the last 6 years, I wouldn't be that confident that we'd get 1 or 2 players with similar value to Cousins ( a young player that has potential to be top 25 with years of development ahead).
The Celtics would be the team I'd ask if we went that route. I'd ask for Brown, their Nets pick this year plus Zeller for salary cap reasons.
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We are in the predicament that we are in because for the past 5 years the franchise has overvalued and enabled Cousins. We went "all in" on a guy who is a solid All-Star, but not a guy who can lead his team to the playoffs with solid vets around him. Hell, he's never won more than 33 wins and that was with a coach who he recently ran out of town.
The biggest problem now is that if we decide to trade him we aren't going to get as much value as one would think you would get. It's likely going to take a team that is desperate and willing to roll the dice. I don't see any reason the Celtics would trade for him at this point. Why would they? Same with the Lakers. Those were the 2 teams that had legitimate assets to give us for him.
Now we are likely stuck in an abyss of suckitude the next 5-7 years. Such is the life of a Kings fan.
The biggest problem now is that if we decide to trade him we aren't going to get as much value as one would think you would get. It's likely going to take a team that is desperate and willing to roll the dice. I don't see any reason the Celtics would trade for him at this point. Why would they? Same with the Lakers. Those were the 2 teams that had legitimate assets to give us for him.
Now we are likely stuck in an abyss of suckitude the next 5-7 years. Such is the life of a Kings fan.
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