The nuts and bolts of the Martin trade

[jimbodan]

We will have to disagree then.. He's a pretty damn good defender for his size.. Haven't watched him a lot this year.. Maybe 5-7 games. Houston doesn't interest me much. Anyhow, he does play good defense. At least that's how I feel.

I think I might have misunderstood you though.. When you said "not a great defender" I took it as you thought he was a bad defender. My bad.

No he isn't a bad defender, and on this Kings team he will probably be one of our better defenders, just overall compared to the rest of the league he isn't that great, especially against bigger and taller PF's. Overall I'd say he is pretty average as a defender.

 

[Chupacabra]

I really doubt we get anything worthwhile in free agency.

I second this pessimism.

 

[NewArena]

I voted no. We traded a good starter for a good bench/border line starter. Kevin was not a fit for this team, but Kevin is a proven quality starter. Landry is a better fit for this team just not the type of player that will have a huge impact in my opinion. Landry isn't the defender or low post threat some people are making him out to be. For me the value we got doesn't match what we gave up. Its really that simple for me.

I don't think this was a terrible move and if things come together in free agency this move could end up as a good deal. At the moment I'm just underwhelmed.

And what kind of impact has kevin martin EVER made with us. I always laugh when people say what you just said about landry...yet they forget the fact that Martin and impact shouldn't be in the same sentence.

Players like martin are a dime a dozen. Oh and i agree with the fact that we need to do something this summer, just not your other points. I would also like to point out the fact that most of you keep talking about how we aren't going to be able to sign someone BIG in free agency. Well do some of you realize that cap space also allows you to take on salary in trades? It isn't all about simply signing player outright.

 

[Henkel]

And what kind of impact has kevin martin EVER made with us. I always laugh when people say what you just said about landry...yet they forget the fact that Martin and impact shouldn't be in the same sentence.

Players like martin are a dime a dozen. Oh and i agree with the fact that we need to do something this summer, just not your other points. I would also like to point out the fact that most of you keep talking about how we aren't going to be able to sign someone BIG in free agency. Well do some of you realize that cap space also allows you to take on salary in trades? It isn't all about simply signing player outright.

You have some short term memory. Kevin can impact a game, as your go to offensive threat not so much. We shall see what type of impact he has in Houston, if I had to guess... with the pieces they got, hes gonna have a impact on that team.

Speaking of stuff to laugh about, I don't think trades work like you think they do. You have to trade near equal salary in a trade unless you have a trade exception so cap room doesn't help with that.

 

[top10]

I would stay positive about this.

this is not about this year though. we are adding a better defender, 6th man.
currently, these are our main issues. our bench does not have enough impact and we lack in defence.
I'm sure, looking at the progress that our young players have been doing recently, that we are on our way up. Evans settles as a better player then Martin was, with a better match to our team spirit. Omri and Green are coming back from limbo, and will get better and better. Spencer has been decent last couple of months, and he is on a stead progress.
as we've seen, the effort (or lack of) that players do is catching, so hopefully, adding an energetic player will have added value above his own statistics.

 

[Bricklayer]

Speaking of stuff to laugh about, I don't think trades work like you think they do. You have to trade near equal salary in a trade unless you have a trade exception so cap room doesn't help with that.

If you are below the cap you are allowed to take back more salary than you trade out. The strict matching only applies to teams over the cap.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

I voted no, but would have voted yes if we had gotten the pick swap and the following year's pick from the knicks as part of the deal.

 

[Heuge]

Whoohooo we cleared space for....Rudy Gay on a max contract or better yet David Lee...

I want to trade draft picks and cap space for the Rockets GM.

 

[Rookie]

I like the trade because:

Remove the log jam and more minutes for Donte/Casspi
-I like this because Donte and Casspi are the future of the team core along with Tyreke. Last thing I want is for them to follow behind KMart. (Like someone stated in the past with Hawes and Millier)

Got a decent Forward to help JT to play inside.
-I don't follow him much but base on posters, he is a tough guy with good interior offense and play defense. Money for the value this guy is worth it more than KMart IMO.

More $$ more chance to get someone good for next season.
-Beside the draft, we got $$ to get a nice FA in the offseason. We may not be lucky enough to get the guy we want through FA but if we don't have the $$ we wouldn't have a chance.

KMart downfall
-Beside continue to be consistent on a 50ish game a season player, his offense this year has been falling. Tyreke and him hasn't work (and I'm one of the few that was believing it would work). He may or may not pick up his game but to hold onto him for something better could be a bigger mistake especially when we just want to develop our young core.


Importantly:
Right now it should all be about attitude and development. Getting another player that play tough is exactly what I like.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Whoohooo we cleared space for....Rudy Gay on a max contract or better yet David Lee...

I want to trade draft picks and cap space for the Rockets GM.

As has been pointed out by myself and numerous others that cap space is useful for more than just max contracts. Maybe there aren't any attractive bigs where we draft but there's a nice looking 3, well now we can trade that pick (or one of our guys at that spot) for just about any player we like because we don't have to match salaries.

We have all kinds of options and I'm sure Petrie isn't going to rush into a bad contract after all the work he went through to clear us out.

The Rockets GM gave up Donte and Omri for a one year rental on Artest. Rockets fans seem happy because it got them into the second round of the playoffs for the first time in a decade, but I don't really call that a great move. I think it will be 2 or 3 years before we can properly grade this latest trade.

 

[Heuge]

We have all kinds of options and I'm sure Petrie isn't going to rush into a bad contract after all the work he went through to clear us out.

What makes you so sure Petrie wont rush into a bad contract? (Garcia, Beno, Rahim) It seems to me like this GM has struggled with the offering players good contracts part of his job. (or even trading for them (Noc))

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Players like martin are a dime a dozen.

No, no they aren't. Martin is currently the #3 most efficient shooting guard of all-time (in terms of TS%). That is not a dime-a-dozen player in any reasonable sense of the word.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

What makes you so sure Petrie wont rush into a bad contract? (Garcia, Beno, Rahim) It seems to me like this GM has struggled with the offering players good contracts part of his job. (or even trading for them (Noc))

Those were all MLE deals when ownership was dictating the Kings be competitive on a budget. That isn't quite throwing max money around to anyone with their hand out.

 

[fnordius]

This trade might make us slightly better in the short term, since Evans + Martin was not a feasible idea anyway. I had been expecting Martin to be traded since draft night, so I got over the shock of this several months ago. But I expected to get more value for him... if not an equal quality player, at least a player who fills one of our more desperate needs pretty well.

Considering the economic climate, yet another cost-cutting more was probably inevitable, but, like most of the others Geoff's done since our peak, it doesn't make me more excited about the team's prospects. We gave up our big ender, our best expendable player, and a useful backup, yet our roster's still broken.

Although I think "yes" and "no" are both probably true to some degree, I felt that "no" was much more obviously so.

 

[Andre87]

Larry Hughes=MEH JUST MEH... we've got another Nocioni right there

 

[pshn80]

I would have liked to see the options just be "Yes" or "No" as while I'm voting yes, it's not about free agency.

But that's just me. I'm somewhat of a poll purist who believes qualifiers are merely attempts to get people to see a certain point of view. And that stems from a psychology class I took many years ago at American River College.

My psychology class was at Sacramento Junior College but I agree with you on the poll. In fact I didn't vote for the reason you point out. Good trade. Kudos to GP. I don't need to wait for summer.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Larry Hughes=MEH JUST MEH... we've got another Nocioni right there

Supposedly Larry Hughes has been bought out already, but he's an expiring contract which is quite the opposite of Noc.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

But I expected to get more value for him... if not an equal quality player, at least a player who fills one of our more desperate needs pretty well.

Honestly I haven't really watched him play much, but if the reports that he is a) a stellar 4th quarter player and b) great inside offense he does fit two needs right there. We still need a defensive guy up front but we weren't going to get a two way big for a one way guard. I thought we could get more for Martin as well but the injuries of the past 3 years have made his contract look really unattractive.

 

[Amory]

I voted "yes" but I wish that we got a little bit more out of him.

If we could have got another draft pick out of it then I would have been really happy.

 

[fnordius]

We still need a defensive guy up front but we weren't going to get a two way big for a one way guard.

We're #10 in terms of points scored; significantly above average!

We're #27 in terms of points allowed. #24 with regard to opponents' FG percentage. #25 in rebounding differential. #26 in blocking differential.

I'd gladly have settled for a solid defensive C who doesn't score.

 

[Superman]

We're #10 in terms of points scored; significantly above average!

We're #27 in terms of points allowed. #24 with regard to opponents' FG percentage. #25 in rebounding differential. #26 in blocking differential.

I'd gladly have settled for a solid defensive C who doesn't score.

Like who?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

We're #10 in terms of points scored; significantly above average!

Which is why we could afford to give away Martin who offers little besides offense. However we had no reliable inside-outside game and the end of the 4th quarter has pretty much been Tyreke vs. the world. And it hasn't worked. Now that he has someone who is a reliable inside 4th quarter threat we might be able to pull out some of those close games.

And if not, at least he only costs us 3 million and we have $$$ and a high draft pick coming our way.

 

[fnordius]

Like who?

Hard for me to say, since I took a break from watching much NBA basketball a few months ago, and am not very on top of other teams' rosters right now. But someone like Joakim Noah would have been about perfect from my perspective. Not saying that we could have gotten him specifically, but anyone 25 or younger, who can actually play C and defend okay would have met with my approval. Some young players who are still projects might have, too.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Here's one person's analogy of the NBA GM's and trades they made(rankings):

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/02/19/fanhouses-2010-nba-general-manager-swagger-index/

He has Petrie at #20 and Morey at #1. You wanna crown em' crown em'!!

 

[hardware_failure]

I think Kevin needed to be traded eventually, but I dont think the Kings got the better end of the deal. I think Petrie settled for less than he should have cause of the deadline, and maybe some pressure to get it done before then.

Too bad Haws wasnt part of the deal

 

[Superman]

Hard for me to say, since I took a break from watching much NBA basketball a few months ago, and am not very on top of other teams' rosters right now. But someone like Joakim Noah would have been about perfect from my perspective. Not saying that we could have gotten him specifically, but anyone 25 or younger, who can actually play C and defend okay would have met with my approval. Some young players who are still projects might have, too.

I happen to find Joakim Noah to be one of the most loathsome players in the NBA, but I know a lot of people would like to have him on this team. I'll give you that one.

But as for the "anyone 25 or younger..." thing, there aren't a lot of players out there like that. That's part of the reason we don't have one. I happen to like Carl Landry, although he's not anything special as far as building a team from the ground up is concerned. But this move was primarily designed for cap relief so that the Kings can be players in free agency and the trade market this summer, and if a big name player is available, we'll be able to make a play on him without concern for the salary cap and matching contracts and such because we'll be significantly under the cap for the first time in a while. It's a move that will hopefully make it easier for the team to be improved before next season.

That said, I think the team is better already. I don't think that Carl Landry is better than Kevin Martin (although I think a lot of teams would do a straight swap, given the salaries and impact), but I do think that he addresses a need on our team, and within a few weeks, I think we can be back to playing the way we were earlier in the season when we were actually above .500 for a few days.

There might be dream scenarios that we can play through in our heads for how this trade could have been better, but given who was available and what we wanted to do, I think we did okay. As of today, I'm giving the trade a C+, and if we improve because of the cap space this summer, it'll probably move up a full grade.

 

[JB_kings]

Hard for me to say, since I took a break from watching much NBA basketball a few months ago, and am not very on top of other teams' rosters right now. But someone like Joakim Noah would have been about perfect from my perspective. Not saying that we could have gotten him specifically, but anyone 25 or younger, who can actually play C and defend okay would have met with my approval. Some young players who are still projects might have, too.

I think the point is that it's easy to diagnose what you need. However that doesn't mean the other teams have to give you what you want. Big defensive minded centers are very rare and those teams that have them know that and they don't want to let them go. Even if you offer them a Kevin Martin.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I happen to find Joakim Noah to be one of the most loathsome players in the NBA, but I know a lot of people would like to have him on this team. I'll give you that one.

I'm sure we went there and were rejected.

 

[tonymixwell]

Martin deal

I'm sad to see Martin go, it seemed like the past couple of games, he started to look like his old self. Now he's in game shape and going to beast in Houston. However, I do like Carl Landry. He is a stud. He plays hard, and is willing to do whatever it takes to help the team. Overall, I think it was an OK trade but if I had to say yes or no, I'd go with NO, we should have held onto Kevin. Only the future will show the true colors of this deal...

 

[Kingstime]

I think the point is that it's easy to diagnose what you need. However that doesn't mean the other teams have to give you what you want. Big defensive minded centers are very rare and those teams that have them know that and they don't want to let them go. Even if you offer them a Kevin Martin.

Exactly I think Noah is on their untouchable list along with Mr. Rose of course. I read that a big road block in the Amare deal to Cleveland was JJ Hickson and he's not even a defensive minded 7fter. He's just a athletic energy 4 that is the recipient of many Lebron lobs to the rim.

I am fairly confident GP will draft our athletic shot blocking big that we need, I just hope he finds the most NBA ready one and I also hope he's there when we can pick him.

Once we get that guy in the draft I think anybody dissapointed in this trade will see what type of player we got in Landry, he's a stud of a player.