The MMA thread

SLAB said:
Tito Ortiz is back in the UFC! Nice to hear, and you gotta wonder who he's going to fight and if he has anything left.
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Not only is Tito back, but so is Vitor Belfort ! He'll headline UFC 103 (I believe) against Rich Franklin. As far as Tito goes, I'd say set up bring Chuck out of retirement one last time :)
 
As a UFC fan I can only say Fedor's handler's are morons...

You have a golden opportunity to bring the potential Best Heavyweight in the World to the best League in the World for potentially the biggest MMA fight of all time, yet you don't because of selfish unreasonable demands...

I just hope one of the next UFC washouts or freak-show tomatoecans (BUTTERBEAN!~ lol) who venture over to Japan KTFO Fedor and keep him from UFC entirely.

Nothing against Fedor, who I have only read good things about, but his selfish greedy manegemnt team to get knocked on their butts.

Such a brilliant opportunity wasted by some moron handlers...
:mad:
 
SLAB said:
As a UFC fan I can only say Fedor's handler's are morons...

You have a golden opportunity to bring the potential Best Heavyweight in the World to the best League in the World for potentially the biggest MMA fight of all time, yet you don't because of selfish unreasonable demands...

I just hope one of the next UFC washouts or freak-show tomatoecans (BUTTERBEAN!~ lol) who venture over to Japan KTFO Fedor and keep him from UFC entirely.

Nothing against Fedor, who I have only read good things about, but his selfish greedy manegemnt team to get knocked on their butts.

Such a brilliant opportunity wasted by some moron handlers...
:mad:
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As sad as I am that Fedor did not come to an agreement with the UFC, at the same time in a way I'm also glad that this is happening to the UFC. I've been following the sport for years, and they have treated their fighters/associates like garbage. See Tim Sylvia (doesnt get his contract renewed, Dana goes out to call him a garbage fighter, idiot and a freakshow), see Jon Fitch & Christian Wellisch (gets his contract revoked after he refused to sign on to a UFC game license, off which he makes no profit, and in case of agreement he would not be able to feature in any other game other than one that the UFC approves of - they eventually came to an agreement and he signed a new contract ... went from headlining one event, to being the undercard on the next), Tito Ortiz, Randy Coutoure, Babalu, Dana's rant against Loretta Hunt (a lady journalist)...list goes on and on. Is there someone this guy has actually not bad mouthed (with the exception of the Fertitas) ?

It's hard to cheer for a company that's represented by an absolutely classless idiot like Dana White...plus, since the demise of PRIDE, the UFC is an absolute monopoly in MMA. So, in a way I'm glad Fedor did what he did (even though I do believe that they'll resolve it).
 
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Dana's not the most likeable guy but he's been brilliant for the growth of the sport. He claims the fighters get residuals from the tv shows and video games so maybe the pay isn't as bad as it seems but ultimately there needs to be the belief that a fighter can make tens of millions in one night for the public perception that these are the most elite fighters in the world to continue. Sylvia's one punch ko at the hands of Mercer doesn't help that perception either.

Fedor is not going to win, the UFC doesn't need him as much as he needs a stable organization to rule in. Its not like Strikeforce is going to pay him.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Dana's not the most likeable guy but he's been brilliant for the growth of the sport. He claims the fighters get residuals from the tv shows and video games so maybe the pay isn't as bad as it seems but ultimately there needs to be the belief that a fighter can make tens of millions in one night for the public perception that these are the most elite fighters in the world to continue. Sylvia's one punch ko at the hands of Mercer doesn't help that perception either.

Fedor is not going to win, the UFC doesn't need him as much as he needs a stable organization to rule in. Its not like Strikeforce is going to pay him.
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I don't buy into the whole Dana White brilliant thing. He saw an opportunity and pounced on it. He's lucky that boxing has nobody to draw interest in it anymore, Pride folded and there is nobody out there to challenge the UFC because nobody has the money to upstart a leauge. Fedor is looking out for himself, something I can't blame him for. I agree with Stojakovic, Dana White has treated the fighters like ****, only looking out for himself. Who's to say that if Fedor looses his first fight in the UFC Dana won't throw him to the wolves and stick him in a series of no name fights while he moves on to the next big thing? I think Fedor sees this and wants to be assured he will be compensated if something does go wrong.

having said that, it would be nice to see him fight against some worthy competition so I hope a deal does get done. At the end of the day these guys are all paid more per fight than I'll earn in 10 years working so I'm not really crying over them. I'm sure all of us would love to be paid for doing something we've all done for free at some point in our lives.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Dana's not the most likeable guy but he's been brilliant for the growth of the sport.
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I would argue that anybody in his position would have done equally as much for MMA as he did ... and perhaps with a little more humility. The UFC is cut throat ... they bad mouth every other organization (from Affliction to EliteXC), and that's why, there's a lot of non mainstream MMA fans who really dislike them. The sport grew in popularity, but is it as good as it was in the days when PRIDE was around ?

Either way, recently the UFC has improved in regard to their treatment of fighters, and Dana (thankfully) has been a bit more quiet lately.
 
Having watched UFC back in the original days there's no way I'd have predicted what it would have become today. Just no way. It was moving in a more mainstream direction but it was still considered a freak show up until about the time the first Ultimate Fighter happened. Other people tried and failed, Dana succeeded. I am not a fan but bashing him because anybody could do it just isn't right. Lots of people with lots of money have tried to establish competition and failed and it isn't because of fan loyalty to Dana White and the UFC.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Having watched UFC back in the original days there's no way I'd have predicted what it would have become today. Just no way. It was moving in a more mainstream direction but it was still considered a freak show up until about the time the first Ultimate Fighter happened. Other people tried and failed, Dana succeeded. I am not a fan but bashing him because anybody could do it just isn't right. Lots of people with lots of money have tried to establish competition and failed and it isn't because of fan loyalty to Dana White and the UFC.
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MMA was popular long before Dana White showed up. Yes, the old UFC was ghetto...but so was everything else. PRIDE was elite, and immensely popular in Japan and in Europe. In the U.S., there was very, very little coverage of PRIDEFC.
 
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Stojakovic said:
MMA was popular long before Dana White showed up. Yes, the old UFC was ghetto...but so was everything else. PRIDE was elite, and immensely popular in Japan and in Europe. In the U.S., there was very, very little coverage of PRIDEFC.
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It had a big underground dedicated fan base, sure. What Dana did was actually make it into a viable business and took it into the mainstream of consciousness. However elite PRIDE was they weren't profitable enough to remain independent. If anyone can do it why have Trump, Cuban, Shaw etc. failed to cash in? The floodgates have supposedly been open for the last 5 years now.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
It had a big underground dedicated fan base, sure. What Dana did was actually make it into a viable business and took it into the mainstream of consciousness. However elite PRIDE was they weren't profitable enough to remain independent. If anyone can do it why have Trump, Cuban, Shaw etc. failed to cash in? The floodgates have supposedly been open for the last 5 years now.
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They're not able to do it because the UFC has established a name, and let's face it...they've signed all the top dogs with the exception of guys like Fedor, Barnett, Gomi perhaps (even though he's pretty much over the hill nowadays). Their main attraction was Fedor, but you can only attract so many people with one fight. Hard to attract more people to buy Fedor vs whoever , when on the other side you have a card that mops the floor with any other org.

Pride was underground ? lol PRIDE was huge. The only thing they failed at was selling PPV's. The Japanese people would never pay for sports events, and PRIDE was always broadcast on Sky(something - forgot the name of the channel) which aired on national tv in Japan. When you have a company that airs its events for free, as opposed to one that has one-two million PPV buys at $40 or so, it's hard to compete. They tried to break into the market in the U.S. with PRIDE 31, etc. but it was a last ditch effort by PRIDE, and at that time it was far too late ... the UFC established its name.
 
Yes PRIDE was so awesome and huge that a total dipsh** like Dana White could drive them out of business in six and a half years. Maybe its time you give the guy some credit.

For the record I understand how huge PRIDE was in the MMA community, but here in the US MMA was an underground sport until TUF first started airing. Which interestingly enough was a FREE show and is credited with saving the UFC. So again, maybe its not as simple as you think. I can't stand the guy's public persona either, but its amazing what he's done and if you can't see that then you've got your personal feelings getting in the way.
 
The plus: seeing Fedor fight free (assuming you already subscribe to Showtime, which I do).

The bad: Strikeforce has 4 legitimate heavyweight fighters on their roster, their champion is hurt and the most intriguing prospect was shot down after campaigning to replace Barnett on the Affliction card.

I actually like Stikeforce for what it is (semi-regular, semi-live fights on a network I already pay for), they've been smart with money so I don't see why they go after Fedor especially with no talent in what is already a thin division world wide. This could bankrupt them.

I honestly don't see the logic behind this but Fedor is demanding his M1 promotion gets to co-promote every card and that's just not going to happen in an organization that has already invested a bunch of money building its own market in Europe.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Yes PRIDE was so awesome and huge that a total dipsh** like Dana White could drive them out of business in six and a half years. Maybe its time you give the guy some credit.

For the record I understand how huge PRIDE was in the MMA community, but here in the US MMA was an underground sport until TUF first started airing. Which interestingly enough was a FREE show and is credited with saving the UFC. So again, maybe its not as simple as you think. I can't stand the guy's public persona either, but its amazing what he's done and if you can't see that then you've got your personal feelings getting in the way.
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Alright, I see your point, but I still don't think he's nearly as responsible for the rise of MMA as people credit him with. Regardless, here's his response to Fedor signing on to strikeforce.

"Fedor is a f---ing joke," UFC President Dana White responded Monday after learning that Emelianenko had signed with Strikeforce. “He turns down a huge deal and the opportunity to face the best in the world to fight nobodies for no money!"
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I honestly don't see the logic behind this but Fedor is demanding his M1 promotion gets to co-promote every card and that's just not going to happen in an organization that has already invested a bunch of money building its own market in Europe.
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It's all about the co promotion. He'll make more money than he would anywhere else I believe.
 
Minus the swearing, White's take is correct. Should he say that publically? Probably not, but White's very public handling of this negotation has made Fedor and his manager the villain. Strikeforce has nobody. UFC bent over backwards to accomodate him giving him everything but the co-promotion and essentially guaranteeing him 5-6 million for the fight with Lesnar - which would have been his first fight. He's shown no ability to draw in the US so that's a hell of a deal - piggybacking on the hope that someone can take down Brock. I'm surprised White wants Fedor at all because he has a great cash cow in Lesnar - the more he wins the more upset everyone gets. As for Fedor. all it takes is one fluke loss in Strikeforce to send his value plummeting. He hasn't fought a legit threat in 3 years now. Everyone has an off night.

I'm more upset about what this potentially means for Strikeforce because I enjoy watching their fights. Hopefully they didn't overextend financially here.
 
UFC101 was a total trainwreck for me...

Three of the fights were pretty average, and very similar. Not fun.

Amir's fight got ended way early. As Joe Rogan said (paraphrase) "When youre knocked down, you can either cover up or stand up! Amir was trying to get to his feet!"
Awful stoppage.

Then Forrest got killed...I wanted him to win, but expected some sort of crazy brawl. Instead he gets KO'ed by a pawing jab from a backpedaling guy who has been mocking him through the whole 'fight'

And BJ Penn won. I want BJ to lose everytime. I don't know why, but I can't stand the guy.
:mad:
 
I only saw the last 3 fights plus the bonus. I like BJ, but I get the hate. He can be a little girl when things don't go his way. I didn't think he was in any danger coming into tonight.

I couldn't believe how Forrest went out, I knew he was going to lose but that KO punch was pathetic, though it looked like he also just quit at that point. Silva was kind of being a douche during the fight. I don't like him, I hope Hendo gets another shot and manages to finish the job.

I think my shoulder popped back out watching that kimura finish in the bonus fight. I actually have to work my arm into a similar position as part of my PT and I hate it more than anything, especially since unlike the other stretches and exercises I do I can't see an actual benefit of ever getting into that position.

eta: saw the Amir fight now. Did appear to be an early stoppage as Amir was trying to get back up. Also, weren't those punches to the back of the head illegal?
 
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SLAB said:
UFC101 was a total trainwreck for me...

Three of the fights were pretty average, and very similar. Not fun.

Amir's fight got ended way early. As Joe Rogan said (paraphrase) "When youre knocked down, you can either cover up or stand up! Amir was trying to get to his feet!"
Awful stoppage.

Then Forrest got killed...I wanted him to win, but expected some sort of crazy brawl. Instead he gets KO'ed by a pawing jab from a backpedaling guy who has been mocking him through the whole 'fight'

And BJ Penn won. I want BJ to lose everytime. I don't know why, but I can't stand the guy.
:mad:
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Indeed...I hate BJ Penn. I think my favorite part of his career will be when he gets old and retires, and of course the fight against GSP.

As far as the Silva-Griffin fight...I'd never seen anybody make an elite fighter look as amateurish as Anderson did to Forrest. I never thought Forrest was going to beat him (sure, puncher's chance is always there), but that was a little too much. It looked like Silva was fighting a kid.
 
Stojakovic said:
Indeed...I hate BJ Penn. I think my favorite part of his career will be when he gets old and retires, and of course the fight against GSP.

As far as the Silva-Griffin fight...I'd never seen anybody make an elite fighter look as amateurish as Anderson did to Forrest. I never thought Forrest was going to beat him (sure, puncher's chance is always there), but that was a little too much. It looked like Silva was fighting a kid.
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Yup, I think Griffin was too ashamed to stay in the ring, he just went straight to the locker room right after standing up.
 
That pretty much sums it up, they spent a minute feeling each other out with only one or two leg kicks thrown, then Bowles caught Torres and took him down, it was clear he was physically dominant at that point. It was then a bit of a chess match with Bowles establishing himeslf physically and Torres escaping. When it finally looked like Torres had the upper hand right there Bowles caught him and it was lights out.

The rest of the card was pretty action packed. Just like the lower weight classes in boxing it is tough not to love the WEC. A lot of people want UFC to merge them but I hope it stays on free tv for a long time to come.
 
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