NME
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It wasn't meant as an optimistic post.
The Marvin Bagley thread
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It wasn't meant as an optimistic post.
People mention Shawn Marion sometimes in reference to Bagley and the more I see him play that's what I see in him. Does he have the potential to be more than that? Absolutely. Is he more than that right now? No. If he were the fifth pick instead of the second pick he might be looked at in a different light. The fact he has his flaws and the presumed #2 pick is now a generational talent doesnt help. Bagley has immense potential. Whether he reaches it or not is the big question. Most players show something. Fox made his jump in year two. We are looking for the same from Bagley. So far it hasn't materialized.
In defense of NME, this was the pre-draft question about Bagley. Can he make others better? Or will he produce empty numbers? So far to this point it is the latter
sactowndog
All-Star
It’s not even Luka that’s a problem. Not sure you take Bagley before the 5th pick at best in a redraft. JJJ would have been a great fit on this team.
Jackson looks good though his rebounding is underwhelming and that is the main knock on him. Part of the problem is style of play. Bagley looks awful in these half court sets. Fox is restrained. The kings need to play to their advantage. Last year teams respected the Kings, including several GS players. The team has gone away from what made them successful. Fox and Bagley and Buddy Hield benefit from the fast pace and transition. This half court non sense and slower pace works without Fox and Bagley. With them we need to run fast. Otherwise their talents are just being wasted.
Albatros
Starter
Wow, I do not see that comparison at all.
He's more of a Julius Randle type.
In fact it's quite evident he's not made this team better since coming back. He's the number 2 pick and right now I see a guy who runs the floor can give you some hustle points and boards off the bench. Holmes has comprehensively outplayed him in every regard.
Ok he's been injured, second year etc etc but he is never going to be what you want him to be. Let's hope I'm wrong, usually am.
His lack of understanding outside of dunking and going 1 on 1 is incredible, the guy literally does not understand how to play basketball it's amazing how he made it thus far not knowing how to play, his athletic ability really must be something else.
The guy has not drawn a single double team (all the talk while he was injured) since he's been back cause most teams would prefer to let him go one on one and if he did draw one I doubt he could pass it out/would even think about it.
The guy has not drawn a single double team (all the talk while he was injured) since he's been back cause most teams would prefer to let him go one on one and if he did draw one I doubt he could pass it out/would even think about it.
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This is a slap in the face to Marion a full out assault on his game
jcwkings
All-Star
Bagley is basically
Shawn Marion is a borderline HOF'er and was one of the most versatile defenders in the league. Marvin Bagley can't guard a single position on the floor. Right now he is a taller, skinnier Julius Randle with worse handle and feel. That's what you have with your #2 pick.
Not sure why you're defending NME. The comment you quoted was in response to sergmatt.
Albatros
Starter
When the team slowed down they played better. This run and gun stuff only gets you so far. Buddy has shot like crap in a lot of games and that's a big part of the plan with the quick offense gone.
We don't have any elite level players but when our two "stars" were out Walton was able to get a bunch of solid players to play at damn high level.
Since the "stars" have come back we've been garbage. Let's hope they'll bed in, as for Bagley, if you play him over 20 minutes you're likely to lose. Especially keeping him in for big minutes down the stretch.
Kings_of_California
Starter
Everyone seems down on Marvin right now. I'm just waiting for him to bust out with some 30/10 game and a W or something to hopefully boost everyone's spirits.
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Albatros
Starter
Randle has games like that too.
I can live with Randle comparison and at this point I hope he can be better than Randle but to even put him in Marion level is asinine. As insane as the fox being able to shoot like curry y’all last year when fox got hot for like 5 games from 3
The Effort Police
Starter
Right now, he's reminding of me of a skinnier, more athletic Jahlil Okafor.
I would say the fact that Bagley has a jump shot while Okafor has none would make that comparison poor at best.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
how about a Michael Beasley without all the offense?
The Effort Police
Starter
I'm thinking Jahlil Okafor on a bad day and torn between Jabari Parker and Julius Randle on a normal day.
King Baller
All-Star
How many games has MBIII played in his second season? How many full contact practices? If you just look at the +/- of this last game you could say he is not the issue.
IMO it will take some time before his game comes around.
IMO it will take some time before his game comes around.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I don't see the Jahlil comparisons, he is ground bound and has minimal athletic ability. He does have a decent post game though which is kind of moot now a days though.
The Effort Police
Starter
Mostly when I'm really down on him, like last night.
A more athletic Jahlil Okafor, and having a poor jumpshot instead of none at all. Strong post game, high draft pick, seemingly archaic skillset, puts up good counting stats their rookie year, absolute sieves defensively, regresses his second year (if Bagley keeps this up). They both even have annoying fathers.
Bagley is all potential. His game is raw. He has elite athletic ability and a second jump which helps with his rebounding. His second jump is the quality often compared to Shawn Marion. Maybe not the total player comparison is equal but the second jump part.
Dave Joeger last year compared Bagley and Fox to Westbrook and Durant. He saw something there too but at the same time he had his issues and heavily implied he wanted Doncic.
Bagley dominated high school basketball and he wasn't too shabby at Duke either. He obviously has underlying talent and potential. Will it come to fruition or not? We dont know. I havent looked up "late bloomers" in the NBA but generally in the second season the player shows a jump. Bagley has only played in a handful of games. The "eye test" says Bagley is a hard worker and wants to be great. The "eye test" also says his basketball IQ is quite low. In a "run and gun" system he looks a lot better because he gets dunks and fast break points. I think that's another reason he looks worse is the change into playing half court basketball. It seems like this style will always impact his level of play. Overall, this change from top 3 in pace to dead last is shocking. It's like taking the team into a system where the players dont fit. The championship Warriors run. They also play halfcourt but they tend to focus on running. I'm sure Klay Thompson wouldn't look quite as good in a half court focused system. That's what's so puzzling about the shift is Luke Walton coached THAT team. He should know. As far as Bagley, will he reach star level it's highly questionable but the coach also must instill a system tailored to his current personnel.
Dave Joeger last year compared Bagley and Fox to Westbrook and Durant. He saw something there too but at the same time he had his issues and heavily implied he wanted Doncic.
Bagley dominated high school basketball and he wasn't too shabby at Duke either. He obviously has underlying talent and potential. Will it come to fruition or not? We dont know. I havent looked up "late bloomers" in the NBA but generally in the second season the player shows a jump. Bagley has only played in a handful of games. The "eye test" says Bagley is a hard worker and wants to be great. The "eye test" also says his basketball IQ is quite low. In a "run and gun" system he looks a lot better because he gets dunks and fast break points. I think that's another reason he looks worse is the change into playing half court basketball. It seems like this style will always impact his level of play. Overall, this change from top 3 in pace to dead last is shocking. It's like taking the team into a system where the players dont fit. The championship Warriors run. They also play halfcourt but they tend to focus on running. I'm sure Klay Thompson wouldn't look quite as good in a half court focused system. That's what's so puzzling about the shift is Luke Walton coached THAT team. He should know. As far as Bagley, will he reach star level it's highly questionable but the coach also must instill a system tailored to his current personnel.
He's the brain/IQ of Skal and the athletic ability of Faried
I think you've been looking through rose colored glasses when it comes to Bagley. Defensively he's the Buddy Hield of big men and offensively he's done nothing to garner the king of attention you're suggesting he's getting. So far this year he doesn't look improved at all from last year. In fact it looks like he's regressed. He can't even make a post move without getting the ball swatted out of his hands.
Walton is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Put Bagley at the 5 and it balances the team on the floor offensively but it makes them a bottom dweller defensively. Put him at the 4 and it improves the defense by having someone that can defend at the 5 but now the offensive balance is out of whack because they don't fit together on the floor.
It's one of the main reasons I didn't want to draft him because he requires a unicorn big next to him to make it work.
NME
Starter
Exactly why my second choice was JJJ. He's a work in progress himself, but is infinitely easier to construct a team around. He can protect the rim and stretch the floor, so all you really have to worry about in a front court pairing is a strong rebounder to pick up his slack in that department.
but some are comparing him to hall of gamers kids closer to Okafor than Marion
Two bad comps do not make a good comp.
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