The Kryptonite to King's Offense

SacDoug

SacDoug

G-League
It is starting to look like every team in the NBA has figured out how to shut down the King's offense. Houston did it last night and they turned a blowout defeat into a blowout victory. Minnesota did it and the Kings struggled all night to get their offense going.

They are guarding Brad Miller with a forward and leaving their center around the basket. This is shutting down Brad's game and making life difficult for Shareef and Bonzi. I usually see the whole offense break down to a lot of 1 on 1, quick shots and bad shot selections.

This is working because:

1. Brad Miller can't play with his back to the basket
2. Brad Miller isn't strong enough to back the defender up to the paint and score
3. Brad Miller isn't fast enough to get past his defender

This would have never worked in years past. Vladi would easily postup a forward or just shoot over them. Even if a team could shut down Vladi, the offense could still run through Webber.

The King's need to learn how to counter this. Brad Miller needs to make a team pay when they guard 7' of him with a 6' 7" forward. They need to run the offense through Bibby when a team takes Miller away.
 
This is a good point. I am not sure how to counter this, but maybe if they have their Center on Shareef or Thomas, it be good to put them up high and have them just burn the big guy guarding them off the dribble. If they drive and a second man comes, then Brad should be open for a jumper as it will likely be his man or a wing man coming in. Thomas and Shareef should be able to get past most Centers in the league.
 
maybe a little more general than that, any physical or moderately athletic team can take the kings out of the groove. and without the crisp passing, they're dead in the water.
 
You will notice that same switch being made on teams with Peja and Bonzi.

Certain irony to us finally getting a couple of post players, and then getting burned for it because of the long time limitations of our old "core".

Teams switch off a forward onto Brad, and then play a huge center on Reef -- bye bye to offense from both. Then they switch off an OG on Peja and play a stronger forward on Bonzi, and amazingly again bye bye to both. Peja has long had far more problems with little defenders who stick with him than big guys who his game seems tailored to beat.

I've also noticed the same thing with Kenny recently -- teams putting smaller, quicker guys on him is disrupting the simple offensive game he has -- either shoot a jumper, or if the big guy lumbers at him, put it ont eh floro and drive. Well now people are going small with guys capable of flattening out on him and challenging the shot while still beign able to recovere on the drive, and he's got nothing.

There is definitely a book. A well organized, heavily footnoted book.
 
lets not forget big guards on bibby..... maybe we should try to trade peja for pierce... that'd be almost as nice as artest..... maybe nicer depending on how you look at it.....
 
i read on espn that celtics need a better PG, so it's not like we can send them hart or price.:rolleyes:

whoever we trade and whatever we get back, i know we need two things: 1) a vocal leader or 2) bench ability.
 
Good points ... all good points.

Not sure if KNOWLEDGE or KNOWING HOW TO HANDLE IT is enough to go toe-to-toe with ATHLETICISM AND SPEED.
 
Bricklayer said:
You will notice that same switch being made on teams with Peja and Bonzi.

Certain irony to us finally getting a couple of post players, and then getting burned for it because of the long time limitations of our old "core".

Teams switch off a forward onto Brad, and then play a huge center on Reef -- bye bye to offense from both. Then they switch off an OG on Peja and play a stronger forward on Bonzi, and amazingly again bye bye to both. Peja has long had far more problems with little defenders who stick with him than big guys who his game seems tailored to beat.

I've also noticed the same thing with Kenny recently -- teams putting smaller, quicker guys on him is disrupting the simple offensive game he has -- either shoot a jumper, or if the big guy lumbers at him, put it ont eh floro and drive. Well now people are going small with guys capable of flattening out on him and challenging the shot while still beign able to recovere on the drive, and he's got nothing.

There is definitely a book. A well organized, heavily footnoted book.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised Peja has never figured out the Bird approach and just shoot over them.
 
I've tuned out on the rest of the league recently. How bad are you guys gettin hurt on penetration to the rim? Is that still a problem with this year's roster changes?
 
Gargamel said:
I've tuned out on the rest of the league recently. How bad are you guys gettin hurt on penetration to the rim? Is that still a problem with this year's roster changes?
Click to expand...

Ahem. You couldn't have been tuning out the league THAT much have you? ;)

Reef's our leading shotblocker at 0.8. Bonzi is #2 at 0.6. Brad is taking the year off. The rim is open for business 24/7.
 
Bricklayer said:
...The rim is open for business 24/7.
Click to expand...

And there have reportedly been sightings of "express lanes" for anyone wanting to get there even faster.
 
VF21 said:
And there have reportedly been sightings of "express lanes" for anyone wanting to get there even faster.
Click to expand...

That's only for ten completely demoralizing point guard throw downs or less.
 
Bricklayer said:
Ahem. You couldn't have been tuning out the league THAT much have you? ;)

Reef's our leading shotblocker at 0.8. Bonzi is #2 at 0.6. Brad is taking the year off. The rim is open for business 24/7.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize Sac was 7-11, that's for sure.
 
SacDoug said:
Brad Miller needs to make a team pay when they guard 7' of him with a 6' 7" forward. They need to run the offense through Bibby when a team takes Miller away.
Click to expand...

exactly
 
This is a good thread.

Other teams' strategies that are beating the Kings make perfect sense given our current roster - it's depressing and a little disillusioning at the moment. All the more so b/c I just can't see things changing without serious roster moves. Sure I can see us hovering at .500 or above if things get better (that's a sad thought) but Barkley was right (cant' believe i just said that) when he said after the game against houston that for however much we loved or hated Webber, he (and vlade at one point, you could argue) was the go-to-guy and made the others in the core (peja, bibby, and brad) that much better because he found them for open shots. If we are going to continue to run the offense that we do, we need someone who can not only capably attract that kind of attention and be a legitimate threat, but have the ability to see the open people of screens or moving without the ball. We simply don't have that person and if that person is not available via trade, it makes sense to reconstruct the offense (which would likely mean a coaching change) or just try to maximize what we have and expect a very sub-par season and a better first round pick for next year. Let's be realistic, our defense is not going to get that much better without significant roster change, so if we are going to make something of this season it's going to be to find somebody who can better draw out the skills of brad, peja and mike as shooters who do well with efficient, creative, and well-timed ball movement.
 
hoops4kings said:
I'm surprised Peja has never figured out the Bird approach and just shoot over them.
Click to expand...


In the good o' days, if Peja was guarded by someone much shorter than him, the Kings would call out, "mouse in the house", get Paja the ball and he would shoot over them. That is a long forgotten tactic, today.
 
I don't know that Miller can't handle it as much as we don't have the right mix in general to run it. I think Miller works quite efficiently in the PO, but as mentioned above the book on our roster is a best seller and everyone knows how to stop the rest of the guys. Miller does very well from his high post position and when his jumper is on (and he's not afraid to use it) he is lethal.

I don't think this lineup is completely hopeless offensively. They have plenty of talent to score. What I would like to see whether within the PO or not is more attempts to create mismatches where guys can be effective (as in Reef/Bonzi in the post, Peja on the wing, etc. .). Trying something like that might create more double-teams and maybe create open shots for the other 4 jumpshooters we have on the team.
 
While everyone keeps talking about the Princeton offense, I have actually seen very little of it in quite a while. And that is just one more part of the problem IMHO.

The Kings are a ship without a rudder. They have no idea what they're going to do from play to play. As Adelman said, they don't trust each other so even plays Adelman draws up to come out of time outs, stuff that generally works pretty well, aren't working.

Calling what we've been seeing on the floor recently the Princeton offense is probably what's making Coachie look as though he must have stepped in something bad and is now smelling it on his shoe.
 
What is happening is this.

The other team is upping their defense late in games, the kings usually don't do the same. Then the kings make a bunch of dumb mental errors, and turn the ball over several times. Next, they start running down the floor and just jacking up shots. They forget about their offensive system.

The Princeton offense will always create open shots, both outside, and inside -> via backdoor cuts (Regardless of the opposition's defensive prowess). They just don't utilize it for the whole game. Either early, and they get way down. Or late and they are caught (Lose their lead) :mad:

The starters have veery little margin for error too, since the bench hasn't contributed much. :eek:
 
In order for backdoor cuts to work, people have to be moving and trusting that moving without the ball will actually get them the ball. That's not happening.

In order for backdoor cuts to work, players have to be making good passes to the cutter. That's not happening - very much.

The Princeton offense is, right now, the least of our problems. Until and unless this team finds an identity (I'm suggesting they check ebay), it's not going to matter what offensive scheme they try to use. It's not going to work on a consistent basis.
 
The good news is that SAR is learning to set Webber-style screens on the perimeter, and against the Rockets he was able to free up Bibby and Peja for some shots. Once SAR and Bonzi learn the offense more we might see some more Princeton-esque cuts and more flow on offense. Hopefully.
 
SacDoug said:
In the good o' days, if Peja was guarded by someone much shorter than him, the Kings would call out, "mouse in the house", get Paja the ball and he would shoot over them. That is a long forgotten tactic, today.
Click to expand...

Good point. What about Bibby's tear drops? He used to be pretty much automatic with those, even over Shaq. I can't remember last time he shot one.
 
SacDoug said:
It is starting to look like every team in the NBA has figured out how to shut down the King's offense. Houston did it last night and they turned a blowout defeat into a blowout victory. Minnesota did it and the Kings struggled all night to get their offense going.

They are guarding Brad Miller with a forward and leaving their center around the basket. This is shutting down Brad's game and making life difficult for Shareef and Bonzi. I usually see the whole offense break down to a lot of 1 on 1, quick shots and bad shot selections.

This is working because:

1. Brad Miller can't play with his back to the basket
2. Brad Miller isn't strong enough to back the defender up to the paint and score
3. Brad Miller isn't fast enough to get past his defender

This would have never worked in years past. Vladi would easily postup a forward or just shoot over them. Even if a team could shut down Vladi, the offense could still run through Webber.

The King's need to learn how to counter this. Brad Miller needs to make a team pay when they guard 7' of him with a 6' 7" forward. They need to run the offense through Bibby when a team takes Miller away.
Click to expand...

I don't see this as an issue so far. You are drawing the conclusion from one game (Houston). That's the first time I saw that switch, correct me if I'm wrong.

The biggest problem of our Princeton offense is our Swiss Cheese defense. When you are up by 10 points your shot is much more confident, cause the miss is not such a big deal. But when you are down six, 5minutes in the fourth, you are passing the ball, looking for that perfect shot, which is just not gonna happen. Defenses are tighter at those moments, you have to take a riskier shot. I see this with all of our "core" guys every night. It would be another story if we have some confidence that we can make some stops on the other end of the floor. It automaticaly brings you confidence on offense.
 
frankie said:
Good point. What about Bibby's tear drops? He used to be pretty much automatic with those, even over Shaq. I can't remember last time he shot one.
Click to expand...
i can't remember the last time bibby was in the lane.
 
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