King Baller
All-Star
Skal does seem to be growing as we watch. This is the guy people keep saying "needs to get stronger and in the weight room":
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The Kings Future Might Be Brighter than One Thinks
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Skal does seem to be growing as we watch. This is the guy people keep saying "needs to get stronger and in the weight room":
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Yes.
There must be a book of diplomatic phrases GMs can use. Some of the phrases have already been mentioned on this forum. Never promise anything and there are ways of doing that without being offensive. Then again, Vlade, like most of our team is a rookie. Unfortunately Vlade is not glib with the English language. It would do him well or someone in his department to have a clarifying chat with all the agents. Can't hurt. Throw in a little mea culpa and it could go a long ways. I personally, and I don't recommend this to anybody, would call Boogie and try my best to clear the air with him. This would have nothing to do with the Kings' reputation but it would be a kind and manly thing to do when you know you have hurt one of the most loyal Kings to wear a Kings jersey. That's just me. We are all human. We all screw up. We all can be decent about our relationships.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Perhaps he hired Fegan because Fegan is charming and a bit of a con man or maybe he figured Fegan would cover for Boogie's innate lack of aggressiveness in interpersonal relationships.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
He has muscle. There is only so much muscle you can pile on his anemic frame. I haven't noted his lack of weight or strength hurting him.Skal does seem to be growing as we watch:
King Baller
All-Star
DeMarcus did know the Kings were shopping him a couple of days before the All Star game. Fegan began making his calls to teams when Vlade shared the info of possible trade moves.
How do we know what exactly was discussed between Cousins and Vlade?
King Baller
All-Star
There is one thing we can be sure of. Watching a 200+ million dollar business deal evaporate had to infuriate Fegan and Demarcus.
King Baller
All-Star
Call it what you will, IMO, young man is NOT anemic.
whozit
Starter
I honestly don't know why he hired him. But if he either of those two possibilities you listed were true, it would look even worse. Take the first one, Fegan pulled the wool over him. Then why is he still with him? Remember, he values loyalty and honesty. And the second, even worse. I can't con you (lack of aggressiveness in interpersonal relationships) or get the most out of you then I'll just have my stooge do it for me.
I seriously doubt it was either one. He was an agent known for getting the best deal for his client and that was probably all there was to it. I was just trying to point out, that neither side is necessarily on the up and up. Vlade screwed up in his handling of it but I suspect there is some "he said, she said and the truth is somewhere in between."
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Skal does seem to be growing as we watch. This is the guy people keep saying "needs to get stronger and in the weight room":
Him adding weight is overrated IMO. He can be a fine player without having to put on all that extra weight, which would slow him down. This guy seems to be doing just fine with his frame, length and athleticism.
jcassio
Starter
I'm happy that you know exactly what should have been done. Assuming there are no variables, so it can all play out just the way you imagine it. But wait, the real world is filled with variables. Some we anticipate. Some we don't. Your script actually sounds reasonable. If only life were that predictable.
ParniValjak
All-Star
So now people should burry their heads into the sand and ingore the mess because we don't know all the variables.
Here is a genuine question for you, can you remeber who was the last respected franchise to make such a mess of a trade of its franchise player, or even an all-star as Vlade and the Kings did here? Genuine question!
To be fair, he was asked how the trade should have been handled which pretty much demanded that he relate how he could have envisioned it happening. I pretty much agree with him. Granted, there are things we don't know but we do know what we saw unfold on Twitter as Woj broke the story during the All-Star Game.
Can I answer by just giving you three names? Brian Skinner, Corliss Williamson and Kenny Thomas.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
He said "respected franchise."
ParniValjak
All-Star
Even the trade itself was handled a heck of a lot better than this one. Sure the trade for flexible pieces was a terrible trade for the Kings but did Petrie come out continuously, publicly saying Webber won't be traded? I don't believe he did. Did Petrie give a huge whack to Chris Webber on the way out?! Definitely not! I remember vividly the "those memories remain the property of the Sacramento Kings" line!
I think what the Kings got in return is probably comparable but how the whole trade was handled was chalk and cheese.
King Baller
All-Star
Don Nelson traded Rookie of the Year Chris Webber after making the Playoffs. Nelson did not get along with CWebb and Webb had an out in his rookie deal under the old rules.
jcassio
Starter
Like I said, your script sounded reasonable. But it also showed no awareness of what if this, or what if that, and then what? Because, as my post was attempting to suggest, things don't always work out the way we plan. So, no, I'm not suggesting you bury your head in the sand. I'm just suggesting that you may want to build some variables into your script before you send it to Vlade. That way, when things don't go according to plan, Vlade can adapt and respond in the best way available.
KingsFanGER
Starter
I think at this point, there is nothing left to debate with how the trade went down. Some people are just happy, that DMC is gone, no matter how ugly the return is or how unprofessional Vlade Divac looked in the process. Some people like to point those things out and are viewed as the Debby Downer's by the fans, who want nothing more than to move on.
What matters most for me is:
Prior to the trade we were in a situation, where SAC had a loyal player willing to extend his contract, that was capable of winning quite a few games a year just on his own. The way to go forward was to teach this player winning habits, to adjust his reckless style of play in a way that would lead to smarter play in the end of games, to good effort at all times and to keeping his teammates involved and engaged. We were well underway to do this, once we got an above average coach, who this player liked and trusted, which basically took us 6 seasons to accomplish. A few won trades or one or two good FA signings and we could have been a solid team battling for the Playoffs and still with room to grow, once our young guys improve.
Now after the trade we are in an all too familiar situation. We are back to the drawing board. Back to hyping up young players in the hope to find the next guy. Back to "wins don't matter". Back to hoping for next year.
People like to get behind that, because now you can root for the Kings without expectations and without expectations things tend to be a whole lot less frustrating, when the wins don't come. The angry spirits of the fans can be soothed by the "potential" of the young players and when one of them dissapoints, there is always the next shiny new toy to rave about.
But ultimately this will all lead to a situation very similar to what we have prior to the DMC trade. Hopefully we come up with some young guy able to win quite a few games on his own in the near future. Then once again it's about finding the right philosophy for this guy to succeed and finding the right teammates to complimate him, it's about teaching him the ways to win, to play smart while being the focal point of the opposing D and to handle the pressure of late game situations. All this needs to be done while dealing with his very specific personality. It's the DMC situation all over again and even the often talked about personality issue might not be easier. After all every personality can cause trouble. A wild and mean spirit might be difficult to handle, but other personalities aren't necessarily easier to handle and work around.
At some point in a few years wins will matter once again and all the talk about next year and potential of shiny new toys won't soothe the spirits of the fans anymore. Than the difficulty to find the next guy able to put up 25/10/5 and able to win games doing that might show.
To me this always hoping for the next year just feels so old and the overvaluing of most younglings feels so weird. Everybody with a 6'10 body able to knock down a jumpshot suddenly turns into LaMarcus Aldridge 2.0 and every guard not tripping over his own feet while dribbling suddenly reminds people of a young Klay Thompson. Of course every player once got drafted. But I have a strong believe, that it's what happens after the draft, that is most important to a players career. To be LaMarcus Aldrigdge 2.0 you have to go through the same development stages - you have to work on your game and you have to learn how to impact games the way LaMarcus does. This will take years and years and most players will never reach the level of LaMarcus Aldridge. What's key is the ability of a franchise to teach a player the very specific ways to his very own success.
Now the past tells us a few things about the development ability of the Kings franchise:
We couldn't teach winning ways to any of our upper echolon talents over the past few years. At some area the development always was subpar, regardless if we are talking about Tyreke, IT or Demarcus. With our average talents the results were even worse.
So looking forward for me it's extremely unlikely, that the Kings turn the corner in a few years and finally do things the right way. We lack patience and most of all we lack expertise. The coaching staff might be league average right now, but it's also the weakest link and will be the first to blame once results aren't showing.
No matter how hard I'm rooting for Skal or Buddy - it's a gigantic step from young rookie to franchise player and the odds are entirely against our guys.
SAC was able to produce one franchise player over the last decade and you can't rule out, that ironically the character and the mindset of said player, was the reason he succeeded in an environment, that was completely unstable and hindered any kind of development.
What matters most for me is:
Prior to the trade we were in a situation, where SAC had a loyal player willing to extend his contract, that was capable of winning quite a few games a year just on his own. The way to go forward was to teach this player winning habits, to adjust his reckless style of play in a way that would lead to smarter play in the end of games, to good effort at all times and to keeping his teammates involved and engaged. We were well underway to do this, once we got an above average coach, who this player liked and trusted, which basically took us 6 seasons to accomplish. A few won trades or one or two good FA signings and we could have been a solid team battling for the Playoffs and still with room to grow, once our young guys improve.
Now after the trade we are in an all too familiar situation. We are back to the drawing board. Back to hyping up young players in the hope to find the next guy. Back to "wins don't matter". Back to hoping for next year.
People like to get behind that, because now you can root for the Kings without expectations and without expectations things tend to be a whole lot less frustrating, when the wins don't come. The angry spirits of the fans can be soothed by the "potential" of the young players and when one of them dissapoints, there is always the next shiny new toy to rave about.
But ultimately this will all lead to a situation very similar to what we have prior to the DMC trade. Hopefully we come up with some young guy able to win quite a few games on his own in the near future. Then once again it's about finding the right philosophy for this guy to succeed and finding the right teammates to complimate him, it's about teaching him the ways to win, to play smart while being the focal point of the opposing D and to handle the pressure of late game situations. All this needs to be done while dealing with his very specific personality. It's the DMC situation all over again and even the often talked about personality issue might not be easier. After all every personality can cause trouble. A wild and mean spirit might be difficult to handle, but other personalities aren't necessarily easier to handle and work around.
At some point in a few years wins will matter once again and all the talk about next year and potential of shiny new toys won't soothe the spirits of the fans anymore. Than the difficulty to find the next guy able to put up 25/10/5 and able to win games doing that might show.
To me this always hoping for the next year just feels so old and the overvaluing of most younglings feels so weird. Everybody with a 6'10 body able to knock down a jumpshot suddenly turns into LaMarcus Aldridge 2.0 and every guard not tripping over his own feet while dribbling suddenly reminds people of a young Klay Thompson. Of course every player once got drafted. But I have a strong believe, that it's what happens after the draft, that is most important to a players career. To be LaMarcus Aldrigdge 2.0 you have to go through the same development stages - you have to work on your game and you have to learn how to impact games the way LaMarcus does. This will take years and years and most players will never reach the level of LaMarcus Aldridge. What's key is the ability of a franchise to teach a player the very specific ways to his very own success.
Now the past tells us a few things about the development ability of the Kings franchise:
We couldn't teach winning ways to any of our upper echolon talents over the past few years. At some area the development always was subpar, regardless if we are talking about Tyreke, IT or Demarcus. With our average talents the results were even worse.
So looking forward for me it's extremely unlikely, that the Kings turn the corner in a few years and finally do things the right way. We lack patience and most of all we lack expertise. The coaching staff might be league average right now, but it's also the weakest link and will be the first to blame once results aren't showing.
No matter how hard I'm rooting for Skal or Buddy - it's a gigantic step from young rookie to franchise player and the odds are entirely against our guys.
SAC was able to produce one franchise player over the last decade and you can't rule out, that ironically the character and the mindset of said player, was the reason he succeeded in an environment, that was completely unstable and hindered any kind of development.
Siranthony
Starter
Hey Vlade handled the situation diplomatically as far as I can see. He said "they are going to have to back the truck up" and that they field calls all the time but aren't actively shopping him. Sounds like the best way to put it without upsetting your temperamental asset. They probably had every intention to keep him otherwise. But then there is the situation with Cousins behavior on the court. I know a lot of people don't care about that or even like that about Cousins. But how many times where there probably conversations about changing that behavior in the future? How many times could Cousins have promised to be better? Only to do it again and again. Problems with coaches, refs, fans, media and who knows what else went on. Who is to say the Kings weren't going to sign Cousins to a long term deal right up until the last tirade and two tech performance. Who's to say that wasn't the last straw? I know some fans are upset they lost they're favorite player. I really think the Kings will be OK in the future.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Nothing says diplomacy like trading a guy while he's playing in the all-star game and then letting the media tell him.
KingsFanGER
Starter
No offense, but you like to think the Kings will be OK in the future based on what?
Because all I see is a limited amount of potential and uncertainty, if this potential will ever be reached.
Two years in and one of our building blocks of the future, still has no idea how to rebound and how to protect the rim. Player development is extremely difficult to predict, but so far it doesn't look all that great in SAC.
Larry David
Starter
I don't see adding muscle as Skal's primary concern. He will add muscle at some point. It's between the ears.
At Kentucky, there were a lot of instances where he did not compete from a physical standpoint, backed down, bailed out of possessions because of the physicality. Which is why positing a video of a chase down block doesn't, to me, address that concern. While playing PF isn't the task it was in the 90s, it's still a really physical grind every night and a monumental physical task on nights with certain matchups.
Skal has shown talent and flashes on the offensive side of the ball. Whether he's a sub or a foundational piece going forward probably turn on how he physically competes on every possessoin when he plays, in particular when it gets rough. Perhaps he's no longer the guy he was a year ago and those other GMs were wrong. But, if he's not willing to grind out almost every possession while putting up points, the same foundational issue remains and may not be solved by the strength he later adds.
At Kentucky, there were a lot of instances where he did not compete from a physical standpoint, backed down, bailed out of possessions because of the physicality. Which is why positing a video of a chase down block doesn't, to me, address that concern. While playing PF isn't the task it was in the 90s, it's still a really physical grind every night and a monumental physical task on nights with certain matchups.
Skal has shown talent and flashes on the offensive side of the ball. Whether he's a sub or a foundational piece going forward probably turn on how he physically competes on every possessoin when he plays, in particular when it gets rough. Perhaps he's no longer the guy he was a year ago and those other GMs were wrong. But, if he's not willing to grind out almost every possession while putting up points, the same foundational issue remains and may not be solved by the strength he later adds.
King Baller
All-Star
As we know Vlade informed Fegan two days before ASG that DMC was being shopped and the possibility was there for a trade. Fegan made his calls and did his agent thing pretty much pooping on the deal. This involved a 200+ million business deal and Fegan just played hard ball all the way.
Here is an interesting article. Fegan is at odds with former employer ISE. ISE is owned by Burkle:
Link here--> https://www.forbes.com/sites/darren...of-poisoning-employers-business/#3b377c2c7b5a
https://www.forbes.com/sites/darren...of-poisoning-employers-business/#3b377c2c7b5a
Here is a piece from the article. I think there is more going on here than meets the eye:
"ISE has also announced that it hired two-term Mayor of Sacramento and NBA All-Star, Kevin Johnson to serve as a Vice Chairman and assist with corporate vision and strategy."
whozit
Starter
I put that article up in another thread/post except it was just a "wiretap" on RealGM. There's always two sides to the story and sometimes neither side is right.
whozit
Starter
Conspiracy theory. More than meets the eye?
Webber saying he was going to own a team. ISE owned by Burkle. Burkle the one time "whale" in the Seattle saga. Kevin Johnson, former mayor of Sacramento and key player in keeping the Kings in Sacramento hired by ISE. Webber in town.
Connect the dots. Vivek getting cold feet about the continued payouts. Team at record valuation. His controlling interest with only 20% of team ownership. Cold feet and financially prudent time for a disliked/despised owner who himself loves the limelight to cash out.
Wishful thinking? Most likely but one can always hope. Now back to regular programming ................................
Nothing wrong with having talks to trade a guy during the AS game. The wrong part in Vlade's move was telling Cousins' agent he was trying to move him because you know agents have big mouths. Did Vlade even have a chance to tell DMC after there was a handshake agreement? In today's world, the media likes to present rumors before the facts come to light so it's possible the media torpedoed any opportunity.
whozit
Starter
It was reported DMC refused Vlade's call after the fact. It didn't look like there was a chance before word got out. And it got out quickly. Still looks bad. Given the returns made it look even worse.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Joe Axelson, in his previous tenures with the then Royals, and later the Kings traded away such unknowns in their prime as Norm Van Lier, Oscar Robertson (HOF), Nate Achibald (HOF), and Jerry Lucas (HOF). He then came to the Kings their first year in Sacramento and totally destroyed the team in three short years.
The Warriors in 1980, traded Robert Parish and the 3rd pick in the draft (Kevin McHale) to the Boston Celtics for the rights to Joe Barry Carroll.
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