The Kevin Durant "Hot Take" Omnibus thread
- Thread starter funkykingston
- Start date
No point in really "hating" KD for this.
He's just a ****ing *****. A weakling. That's kind of beneath "hate". You hate what you fear, not what you despise as weak and fickle. Those people you treat with the contempt they deserve. They are lesser and not really deserving the respect and honor of being "hated". Not even the 'heel" of Slim's vid. Just the heel's pathetic pet fetching the paper for his new masters.
He's just a ****ing *****. A weakling. That's kind of beneath "hate". You hate what you fear, not what you despise as weak and fickle. Those people you treat with the contempt they deserve. They are lesser and not really deserving the respect and honor of being "hated". Not even the 'heel" of Slim's vid. Just the heel's pathetic pet fetching the paper for his new masters.
http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/05/kevin-durant-explains-****-you-dion-waters-game-2
Hmm... ok, let's ask KEVIN DURANT. lol
Calling me a drama queen, go fight yourself.
They could still do it:
The only contracts they have on the books for next year are Klay, Draymond and Zaza which amounts to 37 million.
If you factor in Curry and Iggy's capholds (and there is a chance they'll just give up on Iggy or get a discount) it's another 33 million which puts us at 70.
A max for Durant at 35% of a 107 cap is 37 million which would allow them to max him and get to the cap.
Then they would resign Iggy and Curry with bird rights.
So even if they can't get a discount out of Iggy and still want to keep him they would be able to re-sign Durant and still keep a core of:
Curry, Klay, Iggy, Durant, Draymond and Zaza and than fill it up with whoever they can get with exceptions and minimum contracts.
It does cripple them from making any more multi-year signing if Durant wants full max next year- but this 6 guys combined are still going to be the best the NBA has to offer and there will be plenty of veterans willing to go there to chase a ring for cheap.
The only contracts they have on the books for next year are Klay, Draymond and Zaza which amounts to 37 million.
If you factor in Curry and Iggy's capholds (and there is a chance they'll just give up on Iggy or get a discount) it's another 33 million which puts us at 70.
A max for Durant at 35% of a 107 cap is 37 million which would allow them to max him and get to the cap.
Then they would resign Iggy and Curry with bird rights.
So even if they can't get a discount out of Iggy and still want to keep him they would be able to re-sign Durant and still keep a core of:
Curry, Klay, Iggy, Durant, Draymond and Zaza and than fill it up with whoever they can get with exceptions and minimum contracts.
It does cripple them from making any more multi-year signing if Durant wants full max next year- but this 6 guys combined are still going to be the best the NBA has to offer and there will be plenty of veterans willing to go there to chase a ring for cheap.
Meh, they were plenty formidable without him, it's not like he makes them any MORE formidable to us. We haven't won a game against that team in forever, so if they can now beat us by more is not a factor. so what. He did single handedly decimate another powerhouse in the West, so that actually benefits us. None of that is the point. The point is, he took the cowards way out. The focus of sports is supposed to be COMPETITION. He just basically cashed in his SuperStar card to ride the Warriors coat tails. Nothing he wins with them (if he wins) means anything in my eyes. He just said, publicly, that he can't win with a roster built around him, playing alongside another super star, so he sold out. Weak, pathetic. Contrast that to Boogie, who keeps fighting no matter the crap he has to deal with
I personally do not care that Durant joined GSW. They were my second favorite team before Joe Lacob killed it for me. It is not about this team, even thought I live in Bay Area and now I have to hear this KD celebration everywhere I go. I know that we are not winning the title next year, so I could care less. It is the fact that he joined a team that was already a favorite to win the cup is what bothers me. I would have had the same reaction if he had joined Cleveland, another cup favorite. Just thought he was different kind of guy. Still cannot believe he decided to leave his team (it was his team and he knew how important he was for the city) just to get a ring. I understand why Zaza joined GSW to get a ring, because he is a follower, filler. Durant is the man. You have a title contender already, it is not like he is in DMC's shoes, who is wasting his prime time in Sacto (lets be honest about that). Man, I miss 1990s. I miss that NBA.
And I feel for OKC fans. A small market team a-la Sacramento, they had a chance to win it and .. bum. Who knows when they will have a chance again. At least they have a really good and tested front office.
And I feel for OKC fans. A small market team a-la Sacramento, they had a chance to win it and .. bum. Who knows when they will have a chance again. At least they have a really good and tested front office.
The thing that I don't think KD is considering or understanding in his "at all costs" pursuit of a ring is that (if it ever happens) it's likely going to ring hollow not only among peers, fans and media -- but in his heart as well.
As a player of KD's stature -- a former MVP, scoring champ and top 5 player -- how can you possibly feel satisfied or validated when you KNOW the team you're playing for can and has won a title without you?
IMO, he could have joined any team not named Golden State or Cleveland and it would be different.
As a player of KD's stature -- a former MVP, scoring champ and top 5 player -- how can you possibly feel satisfied or validated when you KNOW the team you're playing for can and has won a title without you?
IMO, he could have joined any team not named Golden State or Cleveland and it would be different.
Much to my personal consternation, I am beginning to come around to the idea that, whether I like it or not, we are greatly overestimating how much that actually matters to today's player.
And, you know what? In the abstract, I have empathy for an athlete being like, "Hey, **** y'all, I'm not going to go against my own best interests, just to satisfy your notions of what kind of competitor I should be." I can empathize with that... it's still weak, though.
And, you know what? In the abstract, I have empathy for an athlete being like, "Hey, **** y'all, I'm not going to go against my own best interests, just to satisfy your notions of what kind of competitor I should be." I can empathize with that... it's still weak, though.
Man this one was kind of a shocker. All KD did during his entire tenure was say how much he loved OKC and how he hated superteams (on twitter and interviews) he was entrenched in that community and largely seen as a guy to competitive to pull something like this. He was never as politically correct as Lebron when it came to his loyalty to the team that drafted him. This is a terrible occurrence for small markets because unless the superstar cornerstone wins a chip within that second contract the are probably going to leave no matter what lip service they have paid to keep the fans happy and spending their money.
Also this was in the works long before this season with curry and iggy recruiting KD since the world games. With Boogie's contract coming up soon don't think that players from other teams won't be in his ear about joining them. Not saying that all of this loyalty talk from Boogie is BS but now we have seen that all of that doesn't mean anything when the player actually has a say in where they play.
Also this was in the works long before this season with curry and iggy recruiting KD since the world games. With Boogie's contract coming up soon don't think that players from other teams won't be in his ear about joining them. Not saying that all of this loyalty talk from Boogie is BS but now we have seen that all of that doesn't mean anything when the player actually has a say in where they play.
While there's nothing inherently wrong with that I do think that the shifting trend calls for the NBA to review its policies and how its structured. And quite sadly, I think that having "power" consolidated in a handful of teams would be in the NBA's economic interests when tapping the global market as we see in the case of football (soccer).
You're probably right.
While I'm far from being a professional athlete or anywhere close to where these guys are --- I think most of us can at least relate from a competitive or competition POV. I love to win at each and everything I do. And like the famous saying goes, I hate losing more than I love to win. But having said that, there is a bit of ethics involved. I would never feel good about winning or "not losing" by cheating or taking shortcuts. I just can't relate as to how that would satisfy anybody. It's like pairing up with the smartest guy in class to turn in a project that you contributed very little to. He didn't need your help, so how can you feel proud about the 'A'?
Same logic applies here for me. And I guess I just thought more of KD than he actually thinks of himself.
This move signaled an acknowledgement from KD that he's not good enough to win it on his own -- even with a damn good supporting cast. Let's not forget, he was part of the reason they choked a 3-1 lead against the Warriors. Dude isn't a true superstar and he just admitted it with this move. He's a very good player that apparently believes that he needs the very best team and talent around him in order to get it done.
He's not Lebron. He's not Kobe. He's not Steph. That's ok though. At least he "might" get a ring as the 2nd or 3rd fiddle.
While I'm far from being a professional athlete or anywhere close to where these guys are --- I think most of us can at least relate from a competitive or competition POV. I love to win at each and everything I do. And like the famous saying goes, I hate losing more than I love to win. But having said that, there is a bit of ethics involved. I would never feel good about winning or "not losing" by cheating or taking shortcuts. I just can't relate as to how that would satisfy anybody. It's like pairing up with the smartest guy in class to turn in a project that you contributed very little to. He didn't need your help, so how can you feel proud about the 'A'?
Same logic applies here for me. And I guess I just thought more of KD than he actually thinks of himself.
This move signaled an acknowledgement from KD that he's not good enough to win it on his own -- even with a damn good supporting cast. Let's not forget, he was part of the reason they choked a 3-1 lead against the Warriors. Dude isn't a true superstar and he just admitted it with this move. He's a very good player that apparently believes that he needs the very best team and talent around him in order to get it done.
He's not Lebron. He's not Kobe. He's not Steph. That's ok though. At least he "might" get a ring as the 2nd or 3rd fiddle.
Whose ethics, though? Again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I also feel at some level like there's an unreasonable expectation by our generation to expect subsequent generations to share our sensibilities. Players of Durant's generation do not consider it "unethical" to go and play with your homeboys. They don't see it as "cheating" or "taking shortcuts."
You may also be assuming too much when you compare it to "pairing up with the smartest guy in class to turn in a project that you contributed very little to." We don't know how much Durant is going to end up contributing. What happens if he leads them in scoring and rebounding (not out of the question, given the current makeup of their roster) and wins the MVP, and then continues to lead them in the Finals, and wins Finals MVP (which would be one more than Stephen Curry, btw). You still going to say that he contributed very little?
The only thing that we can say without interjecting sentiment into it is that it's pretty unprecedented for a player who's been an MVP in the league to join a championship favorite, while still in his prime. And, even then, "true" free agency hasn't really been a thing long enough for there to be a credible counterfactual.
You may also be assuming too much when you compare it to "pairing up with the smartest guy in class to turn in a project that you contributed very little to." We don't know how much Durant is going to end up contributing. What happens if he leads them in scoring and rebounding (not out of the question, given the current makeup of their roster) and wins the MVP, and then continues to lead them in the Finals, and wins Finals MVP (which would be one more than Stephen Curry, btw). You still going to say that he contributed very little?
The only thing that we can say without interjecting sentiment into it is that it's pretty unprecedented for a player who's been an MVP in the league to join a championship favorite, while still in his prime. And, even then, "true" free agency hasn't really been a thing long enough for there to be a credible counterfactual.
I hear some KD supporters on TV/radio saying this is the same as LeBron going to Miami. No, it's not.
LeBron went to a Heat team that was either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round for 3 years straight. They had the big three but that was about it. Most of everyone else were veterans that wanted a ring or young players and they had to build it into becoming champions.
KD is going to a fully build championship team that was 1 game away from being back to back champs. The supporting cast on this Warriors team vs the Heat at that time is not comparable.
Worse of all, KD is going to a team that just won 73 games, has the reigning MVP and just beat him after he was up 3-1.
I understand if players want to leave if their team has no chance of winning. But the Thunder had a good chance, I would say 50/50, to beat the Warriors next season. It was going to be hard but it's a challenge. KD took the easy way out and instead of accepting that challenge, he crippled the Thunder by leaving so it's almost a guarantee that they will be back at the finals.
If he must leave, he could've went to the Spurs or any other contender and build. You don't go to the 73 wins team that just beat you. I would have to agree with Stephen A on this that this is the weakest move ever by a superstar.
LeBron went to a Heat team that was either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round for 3 years straight. They had the big three but that was about it. Most of everyone else were veterans that wanted a ring or young players and they had to build it into becoming champions.
KD is going to a fully build championship team that was 1 game away from being back to back champs. The supporting cast on this Warriors team vs the Heat at that time is not comparable.
Worse of all, KD is going to a team that just won 73 games, has the reigning MVP and just beat him after he was up 3-1.
I understand if players want to leave if their team has no chance of winning. But the Thunder had a good chance, I would say 50/50, to beat the Warriors next season. It was going to be hard but it's a challenge. KD took the easy way out and instead of accepting that challenge, he crippled the Thunder by leaving so it's almost a guarantee that they will be back at the finals.
If he must leave, he could've went to the Spurs or any other contender and build. You don't go to the 73 wins team that just beat you. I would have to agree with Stephen A on this that this is the weakest move ever by a superstar.
To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you either.
But to clarify myself, I also don't consider it wrong or against ethics to play with your homeboys. The manner in which the Heat were constructed is pushing the envelope of taking shortcuts, IMO, but I don't have that much of an issue with it. LeBron and Bosh went to a team that was basically reassembled and wasn't considered the deepest and most talented team in the league before they arrived. Miami didn't win the title the year before or set records for regular season wins nor were they the odds on favorite in Vegas for the upcoming season before they made their move.
If I was in their shoes, I would have been able to compete under those circumstances and still feel I was an integral part of what got us there and put us over the top.
This KD/Warriors thing is vastly different.
I'll say that they most likely would have won it without him. They already have. While they didn't win a couple weeks ago, it took an all-time great play from one of the greatest players of all time (and some luck) to keep it from happening again. If those same two rosters faced off again right now, I'm pretty sure GSW would still be the heavy favorite. Heck, they were already the favorite for 2017 the very next day.
I don't care what KD does next season. The Warriors accomplished things no other team ever has all without him. They didn't need him to win 73 games. They didn't need him to win the title the year before.
They may win 80 games this season and sweep every playoff series and be even more dominant. In that regard, he will have contributed something. But that level of dominance isn't needed to get the job done. It's overkill. They already had enough to get the job done, even if they misfired once, and KD won't be a BIG reason why they did it. He'll be a complimentary reason.
Shaq could have probably joined up with Chicago during their run instead of going to LA. I don't ever recall that ever being discussed as a possibility. I don't recall Steve Nash, in his MVP prime, seriously considering going to any of the reigning championship teams that beat his Mavs/Suns teams along the way.
That's never been how the game is played. Players of that stature generally want to do it on their own. That's part of the reason Kobe and Shaq broke up. Kobe didn't want to ride anyone's coat tails and had to prove to himself and everyone else that he was an alpha.
But to clarify myself, I also don't consider it wrong or against ethics to play with your homeboys. The manner in which the Heat were constructed is pushing the envelope of taking shortcuts, IMO, but I don't have that much of an issue with it. LeBron and Bosh went to a team that was basically reassembled and wasn't considered the deepest and most talented team in the league before they arrived. Miami didn't win the title the year before or set records for regular season wins nor were they the odds on favorite in Vegas for the upcoming season before they made their move.
If I was in their shoes, I would have been able to compete under those circumstances and still feel I was an integral part of what got us there and put us over the top.
This KD/Warriors thing is vastly different.
I'll say that they most likely would have won it without him. They already have. While they didn't win a couple weeks ago, it took an all-time great play from one of the greatest players of all time (and some luck) to keep it from happening again. If those same two rosters faced off again right now, I'm pretty sure GSW would still be the heavy favorite. Heck, they were already the favorite for 2017 the very next day.
I don't care what KD does next season. The Warriors accomplished things no other team ever has all without him. They didn't need him to win 73 games. They didn't need him to win the title the year before.
They may win 80 games this season and sweep every playoff series and be even more dominant. In that regard, he will have contributed something. But that level of dominance isn't needed to get the job done. It's overkill. They already had enough to get the job done, even if they misfired once, and KD won't be a BIG reason why they did it. He'll be a complimentary reason.
Shaq could have probably joined up with Chicago during their run instead of going to LA. I don't ever recall that ever being discussed as a possibility. I don't recall Steve Nash, in his MVP prime, seriously considering going to any of the reigning championship teams that beat his Mavs/Suns teams along the way.
That's never been how the game is played. Players of that stature generally want to do it on their own. That's part of the reason Kobe and Shaq broke up. Kobe didn't want to ride anyone's coat tails and had to prove to himself and everyone else that he was an alpha.
They were even closer than that. They were less than 1 minute and a breathtaking chase down block away from going back to back.
I couldn't agree any more.
The thing that really disturbed me is, other than Stephen A -- KD seems to be getting a free pass on this from many in the media. Those same guys that rail LeBron to no end.
I was actually surprised to hear Jim Rome's take on it this morning. He didn't criticize KD at all.
Call me crazy, but had the final 1 minute of GM7 a few weeks ago unfolded slightly differently and LeBron did the same thing KD just did --- he'd be getting raked over the coals for it. I have little doubt of it. But KD gets the free pass because he's "likeable" and wants to win so badly (allegedly).
With regard to Stephen A., I mostly agree with his take, but he really only harped on the fact that KD joined the team that beat him the year before. He never mentioned that same team won 73 games and was already widely considered the deepest, most talented team in the league and are favorites to win it all this upcoming season. Those are enormous factors that shouldn't be glossed over or ignored.
Would Peyton Manning had been given a pass had he joined the Patriots during the time period when he couldn't beat them and advance to a Superbowl? Even as well liked as he is, I doubt it.
I couldn't agree any more.
The thing that really disturbed me is, other than Stephen A -- KD seems to be getting a free pass on this from many in the media. Those same guys that rail LeBron to no end.
I was actually surprised to hear Jim Rome's take on it this morning. He didn't criticize KD at all.
Call me crazy, but had the final 1 minute of GM7 a few weeks ago unfolded slightly differently and LeBron did the same thing KD just did --- he'd be getting raked over the coals for it. I have little doubt of it. But KD gets the free pass because he's "likeable" and wants to win so badly (allegedly).
With regard to Stephen A., I mostly agree with his take, but he really only harped on the fact that KD joined the team that beat him the year before. He never mentioned that same team won 73 games and was already widely considered the deepest, most talented team in the league and are favorites to win it all this upcoming season. Those are enormous factors that shouldn't be glossed over or ignored.
Would Peyton Manning had been given a pass had he joined the Patriots during the time period when he couldn't beat them and advance to a Superbowl? Even as well liked as he is, I doubt it.
Counterpoint: it wasn't even a month ago that a whole bunch of us (including you, IIRC) were calling the Warriors title run a fluke, and declaring small ball dead, and saying that they would have had trouble getting back. Now that they've got Durant, you're on that, "Eh, they could have gotten to the Finals without him." What makes you so sure of that, when you were equally sure after Game 7 that they couldn't?
I've most definitely been critical of the Warriors title run in 2015, and smallball in general (for reasons that I won't bother repeating for brevity's sake), but I don't recall ever stating that they would have trouble getting back next year (if I did I'm sure someone will quote it). I hope that's the case, but I wouldn't bet against it.
I'm not sure of anything other than their recent accomplishments occurred without KD. So if they happen to accomplish the same with KD, what does it really say for his impact?
I'm not sure of anything other than their recent accomplishments occurred without KD. So if they happen to accomplish the same with KD, what does it really say for his impact?
They were even closer than that. They were less than 1 minute and a breathtaking chase down block away from going back to back.
I couldn't agree any more.
The thing that really disturbed me is, other than Stephen A -- KD seems to be getting a free pass on this from many in the media. Those same guys that rail LeBron to no end.
I was actually surprised to hear Jim Rome's take on it this morning. He didn't criticize KD at all.
Call me crazy, but had the final 1 minute of GM7 a few weeks ago unfolded slightly differently and LeBron did the same thing KD just did --- he'd be getting raked over the coals for it. I have little doubt of it. But KD gets the free pass because he's "likeable" and wants to win so badly (allegedly).
With regard to Stephen A., I mostly agree with his take, but he really only harped on the fact that KD joined the team that beat him the year before. He never mentioned that same team won 73 games and was already widely considered the deepest, most talented team in the league and are favorites to win it all this upcoming season. Those are enormous factors that shouldn't be glossed over or ignored.
Would Peyton Manning had been given a pass had he joined the Patriots during the time period when he couldn't beat them and advance to a Superbowl? Even as well liked as he is, I doubt it.
I couldn't agree any more.
The thing that really disturbed me is, other than Stephen A -- KD seems to be getting a free pass on this from many in the media. Those same guys that rail LeBron to no end.
I was actually surprised to hear Jim Rome's take on it this morning. He didn't criticize KD at all.
Call me crazy, but had the final 1 minute of GM7 a few weeks ago unfolded slightly differently and LeBron did the same thing KD just did --- he'd be getting raked over the coals for it. I have little doubt of it. But KD gets the free pass because he's "likeable" and wants to win so badly (allegedly).
With regard to Stephen A., I mostly agree with his take, but he really only harped on the fact that KD joined the team that beat him the year before. He never mentioned that same team won 73 games and was already widely considered the deepest, most talented team in the league and are favorites to win it all this upcoming season. Those are enormous factors that shouldn't be glossed over or ignored.
Would Peyton Manning had been given a pass had he joined the Patriots during the time period when he couldn't beat them and advance to a Superbowl? Even as well liked as he is, I doubt it.
I'm a bit surprised by the media mostly being on KD's side as well. But that also tells us how much they hated LeBron, for whatever personal reason it might have been. It can also be Nike being more ready this time and had their PRs do all the groundwork with the media before the announcement to make it a lot more favorable for their #2 star.
I was surprised by Rome's take also, way too soft for his personality. For those that have listened to him through the years, they would've been expecting to turn on the radio and hear Rome belittling KD with the help of various email quotes and sound effects on repeat.
I understand the flip side of the argument being why does he have to please anyone and he should be allowed to go work for a better company etc etc. But Kevin Durant knows the truth. The fact is that he will be 28 yrs old when the season starts with no rings and the Warriors all stars being 28 or younger scares him.
It's not that Durant doesn't understand the value of fighting through adversity to win the championship. It's just that he is scared of how difficult it is and what if he retires without ever winning the chip.
We are talking about KD, a guy who once said he was "Tired of being #2 in everything" when asked about finishing second to LeBron in the MVP votings and losing in the finals. The Warriors' players and FO can say all the right things about not caring about whose team it is and they would love for KD to be MVP. At the end of the day, everyone knows he is going to Curry's team, the reigning MVP.
Last edited:
I still feel like that's trying to have it both ways, though: you just got done agreeing with @Peter_Gibbons' assessment that the Thunder, with Durant, would have had a 50/50 chance of beating the Warriors. How do you reconcile the Warriors having a 50/50 chance of losing to OKC, with having any particular confidence that they could have won without him?
actually, i think KD gets a free pass from a number of sports writers because the warriors are "likable." i'm not really sure durant himself is all that likable, from a media standpoint. he's a bit short on personality and he can be rather bristly when in front of a microphone or on camera. but in the minds of many, the warriors are the best thing that's ever happened to the sport, thus kevin durant now falls under the umbrella of that critical darling protection. so many "hot takes" of golden state's collapse in the finals were charmin ultrasoft and lovingly generous. it made me gag to see a team that nearly lost a 3-1 lead in the western conference finals and actually lost a 3-1 lead in the nba finals treated so well by the very same media outlets that have castigated a host of lesser teams and players for failing to win it all. that said, there might not be another team in nba history who will bear more pressure to win a title than the '16-'17 warriors. if they should somehow come up short of a championship (unlikely an outcome as that is), then we'll definitely see the raking over the coals that you're talking about...
I'll give you another "actually" perspective on that: why was James raked over the coals and Durant, relatively speaking, is not? Maybe because two wrongs don't make a right. What if, instead of sports writers and analysts saying, "Well, we crucified LeBron, so we've got to crucify Durant, too, for the sake of consistency", what if instead, they decided, "Well, we crucified LeBron, and we were way out of pocket in doing that, and we should stop doing that to athletes in the future"?