The Jimmer Experiment

[HereWeBoogie]

We had Omri fans claiming he wasn't getting enough time or shots and if given a chance he'd be our SF solution.

god i remember that nonsense. i absolutely hated Casspi

 

[Glenn]

I am fed up with this team and let's not pretend like we are going anywhere. Let's use this year to experiment. I don't give a $hit about who fits with who. We have won 4 games and at this rate will win 20 games this year. I can't believe that the arguments that deal with minutia are thought to be important. **** who doesn't fit with who. Let's experiment and see if we can hit 22 wins on the season.

I'm a Kings fan first and a Jimmer fan second. Don't anyone lump me in with the group of people who put Jimmer above the team. This is ridiculous.

 

[Glenn]

Turn the reigns over to Jimmer? The reigns are with Cuz if he decides to play and Reke and it will never be different. Do people think that the reigns now are with Brooks? Give me a break. Hyperbole ya know is not useful in a discussion. A shooter opens the court for Reke and Cousins which is exactly what a lot of people who have been shocked by this idea have been pontifically telling me for a few years.

 

[bajaden]

Until Jimmer can show he can succeed off Reke the way Brooks has, no point in starting him, and our defense would suffer as Brooks is a fair amount better than Jimmer defensively. Right now while Jimmer has improved, it's with the ball in his hands, and if we're starting him next to Reke he has to play off Reke just as Brooks has done. Call me skeptical that that would happen.

What Jimmer fans are missing is that what Jimmer is excelling currently at doesn't fit with Reke/Cuz. Jimmer so far has been much better with the ball than without, and we're not going to be a better team for simply letting Jimmer do his thing while Reke/Cuz watch. Not at all. If Jimmer can shoot as he is now when off the ball, then it might work at some point, but thus far in Jimmers career he's not hitting many when playing off the ball.

Actually, if you watch carefully, Jimmer really doesn't have the ball in hands that much. He does bring the ball up now most of the time, but usually makes a pass as soon as the ball is across midcourt. I'll grant you that when he tries to score, he has the ball in his hands, but his attempts per game aren't that many, especially when compared to last year. He plays off the ball fairly well, as does Brooks. IT is the better defender, but Jimmer is a much better shooter coming off screens. One of IT's weaknesses. IT is a good spot up shooter, and probably has the ball in his hands more than either Brooks or Jimmer.

Having said all that, I don't think Jimmer is ready to start, unless we went to a 3 guard lineup, which I'm not in favor of, but could live with at this point. All in all, this team is a freaking mess. Nothing a good coach couldn't fix though.

 

[rainmaker]

No, you're missing the point. This team SUCKS. You lose NOTHING by starting Jimmer and seeing what happens, while also possibly gaining more wins, more attendance, and a better chance at keeping the team in Sacramento. My gosh, I have never seen someone so protective over trash results. You're being ridiculous.

Really, you don't think I realize this team sucks? Just where ahve you been? The difference between you and I is you thinking because the team currently sucks it's the perfect time to get your boy into the starting lineup.

You've ruined any chance of objectivity on this issue and what would help the team with your constant Jimmer this and Jimmer that posts in every thread.

 

[sdballer]

Turn the reigns over to Jimmer? The reigns are with Cuz if he decides to play and Reke and it will never be different. Do people think that the reigns now are with Brooks? Give me a break. Hyperbole ya know is not useful in a discussion. A shooter opens the court for Reke and Cousins which is exactly what a lot of people who have been shocked by this idea have been pontifically telling me for a few years.

I don't believe Jimmer has shown a strong ability to play of the ball and he has excelled most when controlling the ball and looking for his own shot. He has the second highest usage on the team and shoots more often per 36 minutes than anyone by Cousins. Starting him and playing him major minutes (if you are trying to play to his current strengths) is closer to handing him the reigns than it is to maximizing the starting lineup by adding a shooter. In theory you could be correct on how it should be explored. In Smart's reality...

 

[Bricklayer]

I'll grant you that when he tries to score, he has the ball in his hands, but his attempts per game aren't that many, especially when compared to last year.

I mentioned in another thread that Jimmer is chucking up more shots per minute this season than Kevin Durant. His play is antiethical to any sort of pairing with Reke or Thornton at the moment. This isn't college.

 

[rainmaker]

Actually, if you watch carefully, Jimmer really doesn't have the ball in hands that much. He does bring the ball up now most of the time, but usually makes a pass as soon as the ball is across midcourt. I'll grant you that when he tries to score, he has the ball in his hands, but his attempts per game aren't that many, especially when compared to last year. He plays off the ball fairly well, as does Brooks. IT is the better defender, but Jimmer is a much better shooter coming off screens. One of IT's weaknesses. IT is a good spot up shooter, and probably has the ball in his hands more than either Brooks or Jimmer.

Having said all that, I don't think Jimmer is ready to start, unless we went to a 3 guard lineup, which I'm not in favor of, but could live with at this point. All in all, this team is a freaking mess. Nothing a good coach couldn't fix though.

I watch just as closely as you, if not closer my friend. I never said Jimmer doesn't play off the ball, what I said was what he's improved at and excelled at so far is playing with the ball, basically, scoring with the ball.

The majority of shots Jimmer has made this year have come off the dribble, not running off screens without the ball which we see little of or spotting up. Going off college, Jimmer should be good playing off the ball and spotting up, but it hasn't translated yet to the NBA. Do I think it can? Probably, at some point. But right now Jimmer hasn't shown he's a good catch and shoot player in the NBA. Yes he makes that first pass, usually into the high post, but when he gets the return at some point he's not scoring off kick outs, but rather backing up, taking a few dribbles and either shooting, using a screen and coming off shooting, or uses the screen to get off a runner in the lane. That is exactly what guys do who are better on the ball than off. When I think off the ball shooter, I think Reddick and Korver, yet Jimmer relies on his dribble much more than they do, hence, he's better on the ball than off at this point.

BTW, I'd love nothing more than Jimmer to show he can be an asset off the ball and hit shots at his current %'s when playing off rather than just chucking off his dribble. I'd love for him to be able to excel playing off Reke and Cuz, and be good enough defensively that he isn't a liability. That would make our team better. A better shooting Beno who is better at spreading the floor. I'd love that. But imo Jimmer has not shown he can excel in that type of a role since coming into the league. The only who has on our team right now is Brooks, so the idea of others in this thread to blow up a Brooks/Reke pairing when it's our only recent positive is quite ridiculous to me at the moment. If Brooks keeps trending downward and Jimmer starts hitting his shots more off the ball and shows a better shot selection in a team concept, then I consider making the switch.

 

[treach1976]

I mentioned in another thread that Jimmer is chucking up more shots per minute this season than Kevin Durant. His play is antiethical to any sort of pairing with Reke or Thornton at the moment. This isn't college.

Jimmer is doing what the coach is telling him to do, go in and shoot. If Jimmer was playing 25 min a game, I'm thinking the coach might tell him something different. Unfair to judge his shot attempts based on his limited minutes and assigned role while in those minutes.

 

[Glenn]

In nay case it won't happen as Smart is still trying to figure out who fits best on this team, Jimmer or IT. And that's after 75 days of seeing the two players. This is crazy and if it was another franchise, I would even call it hilarious.

 

[bajaden]

I watch just as closely as you, if not closer my friend. I never said Jimmer doesn't play off the ball, what I said was what he's improved at and excelled at so far is playing with the ball, basically, scoring with the ball.

The majority of shots Jimmer has made this year have come off the dribble, not running off screens without the ball which we see little of or spotting up. Going off college, Jimmer should be good playing off the ball and spotting up, but it hasn't translated yet to the NBA. Do I think it can? Probably, at some point. But right now Jimmer hasn't shown he's a good catch and shoot player in the NBA. Yes he makes that first pass, usually into the high post, but when he gets the return at some point he's not scoring off kick outs, but rather backing up, taking a few dribbles and either shooting, using a screen and coming off shooting, or uses the screen to get off a runner in the lane. That is exactly what guys do who are better on the ball than off. When I think off the ball shooter, I think Reddick and Korver, yet Jimmer relies on his dribble much more than they do, hence, he's better on the ball than off at this point.

BTW, I'd love nothing more than Jimmer to show he can be an asset off the ball and hit shots at his current %'s when playing off rather than just chucking off his dribble. I'd love for him to be able to excel playing off Reke and Cuz, and be good enough defensively that he isn't a liability. That would make our team better. A better shooting Beno who is better at spreading the floor. I'd love that. But imo Jimmer has not shown he can excel in that type of a role since coming into the league. The only who has on our team right now is Brooks, so the idea of others in this thread to blow up a Brooks/Reke pairing when it's our only recent positive is quite ridiculous to me at the moment. If Brooks keeps trending downward and Jimmer starts hitting his shots more off the ball and shows a better shot selection in a team concept, then I consider making the switch.

Look, I'm not trying to say I'm better than you at analysing or that your better than me. And I admit, that after watching Jimmer for almost every game he played in college for two years, a lot of my judgement comes from those observations. I've gone back and rewatched everyone one of the last 4 games, not counting the pittiful Clipper game, trying to see exactly why things are as bad as they are. There are many times when Jimmer sets up on the right or left wing where he becomes open, and never gets the ball. There are other times when he sets up, and his man simply doesn't leave him. My point being, is that he does set up for the spotup shot and its not his fault he doesn't get the ball in that position.

In college, Jimmer was terrific at coming off screens and shooting the ball, and ironicly less successful at shooting off the dribble. For whatever reason, they're not bringing him off screens very much. They used to run double screens for Martin to get him open. Oh wait, thats right, Adelman was our coach then wasn't he? Look, I have no idea how good Jimmer is going to be. He could turn out to be pretty good, or he could be out of the league in 3 or 4 years. I perfer the former over the latter. I drew comparisons to Steve Nash, not to show that he's on his way to being the next Steve Nash, but to show you shouldn't give up on a player too early like the Sun's did. However, I don't think its time to start Jimmer. I actually like what Brooks has been doing for the most part. I just wish he wouldn't pass up wide open shots.

 

[Uncia03]

I believe that if Jimmer had stepped onto the court last year and played with the same confidence that he's displaying this season, he would have remained as a steady part of the rotation.
But he didn't have confidence, he played horribly, and the coach (rightly so) went to playing IT who was far and away the better player.

With that said, Jimmer is looking much, much better this season.
At this point I'm not ready to see Jimmer in the starting line-up. If, however, Tyreke and Brooks as a back-court begin to struggle a lot, and if Brook's play drops, then I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how it would work with Jimmer and Tyreke paired up.

I think we can all agree that the goal of the FO was that Jimmer was going to replace Beno's role on the team, and Jimmer botched that opportunity last year. If his hard work earns him another shot at it, I'm ok in letting him have it.

I also believe that if Jimmer were paired with Cousins and Tyreke in the starting line-up that he'd defer to both of them on the offensive end, so his shots/minute would probably drop considerably.

One more thing to consider.

Do you all remember Beno's first full season with us after signing his contract?
He was abysmal.
I believe that everyone (except for a fanboy or two) wanted him and his contract off the team.
When he was paired with Tyreke both his game and Tyreke's game meshed really well together.
Who knows...perhaps Jimmer is following the same pattern. A miserable first year, followed up by a year where things begin to gel.

 

[Glenn]

Do you all remember Beno's first full season with us after signing his contract?
He was abysmal.
I believe that everyone (except for a fanboy or two) wanted him and his contract off the team.
When he was paired with Tyreke both his game and Tyreke's game meshed really well together.
Who knows...perhaps Jimmer is following the same pattern. A miserable first year, followed up by a year where things begin to gel.

A lot of players seem to step up their game when paired with Tyreke.

 

[Spike]

A lot of players seem to step up their game when paired with Tyreke.

shhh...don't rattle the cages.