The inevitable "we're better without Fox" thread...split from game thread
- Thread starter Kings Faithful
- Start date
Interesting subject. While I'm not sure Vlade is done tweaking the roster, I can't see on paper how this team isn't perfect for him. Shooting bigs, athletic bigs to pair in pick and roll, shooting wings, defensive wings, a long range sniper tag team partner in the back court. Time will tell but it looks like the answers start on the floor from this point on.
No, im not basing it after one game. I started thinking this after our miraculous turn around when he first got injured. I promise this isnt a gut reaction based off of this game and i am by no means saying Fox isn't good and going to be a potentially great player.What i am saying is that THIS team flows better without him, and more specifically with Bogdon as the primary ball handler. In my opinion we are going to have to make a choice between Bogdon and Fox going forward. I personally like the style of play that Bogdon provides us (more passing/ playmaking, better half court, better shooting) than Fox (more speed, more iso). Fox is the best player on this team without a doubt. I just think he needs a different team around him than what we have.
No way they're better without Fox. At his best he can lead a team on both ends of the floor. Of course he needs to do this more consistently but at some point he'll get there.
Bagley on the other hand I'm not so sure. Bagley has some serious deficiencies in his game on both ends that need to be fixed. As of yet he doesn't play winning basketball, just a guy that gets his points and rebounds and the team loses. Defensively he's terrible. Offensively he doesn't create anything for others, doesn't run the pick-n-roll well, doesn't really play within a well oiled passing offense. He's been compared to Amar'e Stoudemire but Amare was running the pick-n-roll to great effect right of the gate with Marbury as his point guard. Of course this could all change and he could become a guy that plays winning/team basketball where he's also a devastating finisher on offense but he's not even close to being there yet.
Bagley on the other hand I'm not so sure. Bagley has some serious deficiencies in his game on both ends that need to be fixed. As of yet he doesn't play winning basketball, just a guy that gets his points and rebounds and the team loses. Defensively he's terrible. Offensively he doesn't create anything for others, doesn't run the pick-n-roll well, doesn't really play within a well oiled passing offense. He's been compared to Amar'e Stoudemire but Amare was running the pick-n-roll to great effect right of the gate with Marbury as his point guard. Of course this could all change and he could become a guy that plays winning/team basketball where he's also a devastating finisher on offense but he's not even close to being there yet.
The usual caveats apply here about trying to reintegrate a high usage player on the road after a long break. The timing is going to be off regardless when he's on the floor and then you have the domino effect of changing the rotation and upsetting the roles everyone has grown accustomed to. It's going to take a few games, maybe even a few weeks to sort those issues out.
The interesting thing to watch here though is the inevitable dissonance of a team playing at the slowest place in the league with one of the fastest players in the league running the point. Joerger tried it in Fox's rookie season and it didn't work so he switched it up and had the team force the tempo relentlessly last year. It's obvious that switching to a slower defense-focused game plan was our best shot to win without Fox and Bagley and the results speak for themselves. Can we go back to running now? Do we even want to? It's a coaching dilemma and that makes this discussion a little more involved than the usual knee jerk reactions. When you find something that works its hard to justify switching things up but you also don't want to commit to a style of play which minimizes the strengths of your best players and maximizes their weaknesses. One way or another something's got to give here.
The interesting thing to watch here though is the inevitable dissonance of a team playing at the slowest place in the league with one of the fastest players in the league running the point. Joerger tried it in Fox's rookie season and it didn't work so he switched it up and had the team force the tempo relentlessly last year. It's obvious that switching to a slower defense-focused game plan was our best shot to win without Fox and Bagley and the results speak for themselves. Can we go back to running now? Do we even want to? It's a coaching dilemma and that makes this discussion a little more involved than the usual knee jerk reactions. When you find something that works its hard to justify switching things up but you also don't want to commit to a style of play which minimizes the strengths of your best players and maximizes their weaknesses. One way or another something's got to give here.
I actually agree with this. Fox is crazy overrated as a defender. He gets lit up all the time but people only remember his highlight blocks and steals.
In Fox's defense (heh), expecting him to run the offense, push the pace, put up enough shots to be a nightly threat for 20+ points, AND play lock down defense is asking for a lot. But with the new slower pace we're playing at this season, I wouldn't mind it if he focused a bit more on the defense. He can be a stud on that end.
I loved the impact on O tonight. If our guys were hitting shots like they normally do, Fox would probably have had around 15 assists.
In Fox's defense (heh), expecting him to run the offense, push the pace, put up enough shots to be a nightly threat for 20+ points, AND play lock down defense is asking for a lot. But with the new slower pace we're playing at this season, I wouldn't mind it if he focused a bit more on the defense. He can be a stud on that end.
I loved the impact on O tonight. If our guys were hitting shots like they normally do, Fox would probably have had around 15 assists.
For us to be great, Fox has to become a lock down defender. We have others that can shoot. We don’t need him to be Dame. We do need him to become Gary Payton. Unfortunately, tonight he gave up straight line drives over and over and Charlotte repeatedly put he and Bagley in pick and rolls where neither looked good.
We have shooters. What we don’t have other than CoJo is a lock down perimeter defender. CoJo routinely took the best opposing player on defense allowing everyone a step down in challenge.
We have shooters. What we don’t have other than CoJo is a lock down perimeter defender. CoJo routinely took the best opposing player on defense allowing everyone a step down in challenge.