The Everything Jimmer thread

[Revrag]

Yahoo article:

Is Jimmer Fredette a bust? That remains to be seen. The Sacramento Kings surely have not gotten what they envisioned out of their 2011 first round draft pick. Jimmer was selected in the 2011 NBA draft in the first round with the number 10 overall selection.

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[VF21]

Here's the deal, fellow Kings fans:

We gained a number of new members when Jimmer was drafted, which is great. Unfortunately, their zeal for the guy they watched in college is sometimes a bit more than some of us jaded Kings fans are used to. So, in an effort to allow those who want to talk about Jimmer, their expectations, etc. without so many different threads dissolving into the same old debate between skeptics and believers, I'm starting this thread (thanks to one member for the suggestion!).

If you participate in the thread, KEEP IT CIVIL! There's plenty of room for friendly debate without it turning into player bashing, poster bashing, etc.

Thanks.

 

[upinsmoke]

I honestly feel he was drafted to sell merch/tickets because it just makes no sense to draft him knowing he would have to compete with all of our guards especially Thornton. As for expectations he could spread the floor sure but is a huge liablity on D so needs to address that before he can expect to see any kind of consistent mins.

 

[Spok22]

As Kings fans I think that our expectations of our rookies are bloated because of how well our other draft picks turned out.

 

[Bricklayer]

I honestly feel he was drafted to sell merch/tickets because it just makes no sense to draft him knowing he would have to compete with all of our guards especially Thornton. As for expectations he could spread the floor sure but is a huge liablity on D so needs to address that before he can expect to see any kind of consistent mins.

Actually there was a clear roster spot for him -- the one we cleared by trading Beno. IT obviously was just a longshot. But it wa going from Reke/Thornton/Beno to Reke/Thornton/Jimmer. Well...that would have been rational planning, although still questionable as an upgrade. From reports, Jerry's gushing et.c though do get a feeling that this wasn't jsut a miss as in a we took a step back from Beno miss, but a miss in that somehow they were thinking he was going to be a star because he had a Douby-level pre draft workout. Reke/Cousins/Jimmer! and all that. Not just a marketing ploy though. Front office got enthused, possibly Westphal, likely the Maloofs, who of course had decided after the Finals that you won with undersized shooters.

If he turns out to be a mistake, it was the same mistake Petrie made with Douby -- the high scoring undersized college combo guard who wows a shooting-centric GM with a great workout shooting display. An Achilles heel perhaps in someone who otherwise drafts rarely missed with his picks.

 

[pshn80]

I'm a before-Jimmer kingsfans.whaterer. I'm glad we drafted him and think he may develop into an NBA player. He really isn't a big plus player for us to date and in the process some of his handicaps have begun to show - handicaps which stand in the way of his being an instant success. Footspeed, strength. Sometines you can build those things and sometimes you can't. We'll see or if we don't, someone else will see. Management is always in the position of assessing whether a team can afford to give playing time as an investment in the future. I'm sure the question of how far out that future is comes into the equation. His attractiveness to fans will keep him around longer than some others in his position. He has market value at this point so if the Kings should decide to give up they can certainly get some value for him. Good luck, Jimmer, your hard work may make it happen sooner than later.

 

[BMiller52]

Actually their was a clear roster spot for him -- the one we cleared by trading Beno. IT obviously was just a longshot. But it wa going from Reke/Thornton/Beno to Reke/Thornton/Jimmer. Well...that would have been rational planning, although still questionable as an upgrade. From reports, Jerry's gushing et.c though do get a feeling that this wasn't jsut a miss as in a we took a step back from Beno miss, but a miss in that somehow they were thinking he was going to be a star because he had a Douby-level pre draft workout. Reke/Cousins/Jimmer! and all that. Not just a marketing ploy though. Front office got enthused, possibly Westphal, likely the Maloofs, who of course had decided after the Finals that you won with undersized shooters.

He's Quincy Douby now? Seriously? He's already averaging better numbers than Douby ever did, and he has some legit skills. This is kind of dumb to assume he won't ever turn out to be what they thought he'd be just because he's having an average rookie season with no offseason+summer league and 2 coaches on a team with 4 or 5 guards that should get playing time and no legit 3.

 

[spudfan]

Some value? What would you give for Jimmer? The way Reke and Cousins dominate the paint I always envisioned him as a target to dish to from the post. Shooting spot up shots in a Ray Allen type of role to be more specific. Some where along the line he became a primary ball handler who would drive and get caught up in the air which hasn't worked so well.

I really don't see who we could trade him for or who would want him that would make much of a difference for our team.

 

[Bricklayer]

He's Quincy Douby now? Seriously? He's already averaging better numbers than Douby ever did, and he has some legit skills. This is kind of dumb to assume he won't ever turn out to be what they thought he'd be just because he's having an average rookie season with no offseason+summer league and 2 coaches on a team with 4 or 5 guards that should get playing time and no legit 3.

You're right -- he will be Quincy Douby once he learns how to play defense.

But just realistically, you watch the NBA for any period of years you know that Jimmer fails 9 times in 10. Our particular Jimmer may be the 10th guy, who knows. Hasn't shown it yet though. Right now has all those classic great in college just no position in the pros markers going.

 

[Npliam]

You're right -- he will be Quincy Douby once he learns how to play defense.

But just realistically, you watch the NBA for any period of years you know that Jimmer fails 9 times in 10. Our particular Jimmer may be the 10th guy, who knows. Hasn't shown it yet though. Right now has all those classic great in college just no position in the pros markers going.

I would like a list of 9 Jimmers that haven't made it in the pros.

 

[spudfan]

I would like a list of 9 Jimmers that haven't made it in the pros.

I don't have a list of 9 Jimmers but here are the 10th picks since 2000. Some good guys in there!

2000: Keyon Dooling
2001: Joe Johnson
2002: Caron Butler
2003: Jarvis Hayes
2004: Luke Jackson
2005: Andrew Bynum+
2006: Mouhamed Sene
2007: Spencer Hawes
2008: Brook Lopez
2009: Brandon Jennings
2010: Paul George
2011: Jimmer Fredette

 

[rainmaker]

Thank god for this thread. I was beginning to worry Jimmer wasn't receiving the attention he deserves around here.

I for one will now rest easier at night.

 

[bajaden]

I'm not sure what this is really all about. To be honest, I doubt this would even be an issue if it hadn't been for come crazy, (Jimmer is a star) people on this fourm. There's no bigger fan of Jimmer than me, but I never thought for a moment that he was going to just waltz right in and be an instant star. There are a lot of misconceptions about Jimmer, most based on articles by pundits that don't have a clue. Jimmer is a point guard! He has never been a shooting guard in the strict sense of the moniker. He has PG skills, and he's blessed with great shooting skills. And because of those shooting skills, he was asked to take on the burden of carrying his team offensively.

Quincy Douby was a SG in college, and we tried to make him into a PG. In the process, I think his mind got so overwhelmed with trying to play the position, he lost all confidence, and became basicly worthless. Douby was blessed with very good athleticism. Jimmer on the other hand is just a decent athlete. And though much has been made of his poor defense at times, just what did anyone expect when he was told not to play defense at all at BYU, so he would stay out of foul trouble. That doesn't mean he won't every be able to play defense, it just means he's a liablilty right now, and will probably continue to be for some time. But there are a lot of PG's that have similar athleticism that are doing just fine in the NBA.

I personally think that PG is the most difficult position in the NBA to play. There are so many requirements necessary just to start with. But the main requirement, is experience. It took Steve Nash 5 years before he broke out and became a star. And I use him as an example, not because I think Fredette is the next Nash, but because Nash was known as an average athlete, that could shoot the ball.

His first year in the league, Nash averaged 10 minutes a game, 3.3 PPG, and 2.1 APG. Jimmer is averaging 20 MPG, and in the real world of a rookie PG, thats probably too many minutes. But Nash averaged 21 MPG his second year and averaged 9.1 PPG. Jimmer is averaging around 8 points per game. So in the scoring part, he's close to Nash in his second year.

Now what all of this means is nothing. Two different players in two different times. But the point is, this is normal, unless your blessed with John Wall's kind of athleticism. But then you'd probably be the first pick in the draft wouldn't you? And lets be honest. Wall still has a long way to go to reach the level of potential he's percieved to have.

I think Fredette will be just fine. Once everything slows down for him, you'll start to see improvement. He's a hard worker, and this next offseason is going to be a big one for him. He needs to take his ballhandling up a couple of notches, and probably get a little stronger, because some of the bigger guards are going to try and post him up. Just be patient folks. No one expected Jimmer to be the savior of the team. At least no one with any knowledge of basketball.

 

[BMiller52]

I'm not sure what this is really all about. To be honest, I doubt this would even be an issue if it hadn't been for come crazy, (Jimmer is a star) people on this fourm. There's no bigger fan of Jimmer than me, but I never thought for a moment that he was going to just waltz right in and be an instant star. There are a lot of misconceptions about Jimmer, most based on articles by pundits that don't have a clue. Jimmer is a point guard! He has never been a shooting guard in the strict sense of the moniker. He has PG skills, and he's blessed with great shooting skills. And because of those shooting skills, he was asked to take on the burden of carrying his team offensively.

Quincy Douby was a SG in college, and we tried to make him into a PG. In the process, I think his mind got so overwhelmed with trying to play the position, he lost all confidence, and became basicly worthless. Douby was blessed with very good athleticism. Jimmer on the other hand is just a decent athlete. And though much has been made of his poor defense at times, just what did anyone expect when he was told not to play defense at all at BYU, so he would stay out of foul trouble. That doesn't mean he won't every be able to play defense, it just means he's a liablilty right now, and will probably continue to be for some time. But there are a lot of PG's that have similar athleticism that are doing just fine in the NBA.

I personally think that PG is the most difficult position in the NBA to play. There are so many requirements necessary just to start with. But the main requirement, is experience. It took Steve Nash 5 years before he broke out and became a star. And I use him as an example, not because I think Fredette is the next Nash, but because Nash was known as an average athlete, that could shoot the ball.

His first year in the league, Nash averaged 10 minutes a game, 3.3 PPG, and 2.1 APG. Jimmer is averaging 20 MPG, and in the real world of a rookie PG, thats probably too many minutes. But Nash averaged 21 MPG his second year and averaged 9.1 PPG. Jimmer is averaging around 8 points per game. So in the scoring part, he's close to Nash in his second year.

Now what all of this means is nothing. Two different players in two different times. But the point is, this is normal, unless your blessed with John Wall's kind of athleticism. But then you'd probably be the first pick in the draft wouldn't you? And lets be honest. Wall still has a long way to go to reach the level of potential he's percieved to have.

I think Fredette will be just fine. Once everything slows down for him, you'll start to see improvement. He's a hard worker, and this next offseason is going to be a big one for him. He needs to take his ballhandling up a couple of notches, and probably get a little stronger, because some of the bigger guards are going to try and post him up. Just be patient folks. No one expected Jimmer to be the savior of the team. At least no one with any knowledge of basketball.

All of THIS.

 

[Bricklayer]

I would like a list of 9 Jimmers that haven't made it in the pros.

Quincy Douby
Eddie House
Dajuan Wagner
Bryce Drew
Steve Alford
JJ Reddick
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
Shammond Williams
Jerryd Bayless
Luther Head
Juan Dixon

etc.

come on. after the "well I used to be big in college" 6'6"/6'7" PF/C, the former college star 6'2"/6'3" tweener guard has just about the highest bust potential of any draftee, and is notorious for it.

 

[IfAt1st]

Actually there was a clear roster spot for him -- the one we cleared by trading Beno. IT obviously was just a longshot. But it wa going from Reke/Thornton/Beno to Reke/Thornton/Jimmer.

ding ding ding!

This is exactly right - if anything, the front office and coach got rid of the sole vet PG they had (Beno) just to free up the roster for Jimmer's potential.
Absolutely TERRIBLE bball move, IMO - you free up minutes on a roster AFTER someone shows their potential in the NBA, not before it.

If it wasn't for IT playing WAY better than the 60th pick almost ever has in the history of the lottery, Petrie would have been in big doo-doo for clearing the PG spot for Jimmer.

 

[roasthawg]

I don't post a whole bunch but I watch the games and Jimmer looks legit on offense. He seems to draw a bunch of attention when he has the ball, is a good passer, and is lights out when he gets hot shooting the ball. He's an above average offensive player already in this league imo.

Defensively is obviously the issue... given time I think both sides of his game will improve and he'll be a legit starter in this league when it's all said and done.

 

[BMiller52]

Quincy Douby
Eddie House
Dajuan Wagner
Bryce Drew
Steve Alford
JJ Reddick
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
Shammond Williams
Jerryd Bayless
Luther Head
Juan Dixon

etc.

come on. after the "well I used to be big in college" 6'6"/6'7" PF/C, the former college star 6'2"/6'3" tweener guard has just about the highest bust potential of any draftee, and is notorious for it.

Come on man a guy like JJ Redick wasn't even the main ball handler on his team, that was Paulus and Demarcus Nelson. That's totally different dude. JJ's whole game was coming off screens and cuts and recieving the ball when he was open. Jimmer showed ability to actually put his team on his back with the ball in his hands.

 

[Npliam]

Quincy Douby
Eddie House
Dajuan Wagner
Bryce Drew
Steve Alford
JJ Reddick
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
Shammond Williams
Jerryd Bayless
Luther Head
Juan Dixon

etc.

come on. after the "well I used to be big in college" 6'6"/6'7" PF/C, the former college star 6'2"/6'3" tweener guard has just about the highest bust potential of any draftee, and is notorious for it.

I thought that your list would look something like this. It confirms my suspicion that you just didn't watch him in college.

 

[VF21]

Thank god for this thread. I was beginning to worry Jimmer wasn't receiving the attention he deserves around here.

I for one will now rest easier at night.

Geez...

Is it so bad for fans of Jimmer to want to be able to post hopeful positive comments about their guy without being subjected to sarcasm, ridicule, etc? Jimmer and his fans have been targets of a lot of vitriolic rancor around here. Seems only fair and somewhat neighborly to at least back off on the rabid stuff. Personally, I think a few people around here need to just chillax. Let people express some hope and faith. It won't kill anybody else.

It's tough for newbies coming to this board, especially if they're here because their absolute favorite player has become a member of the Kings. I'd like to think that our members could welcome them instead of attacking some of them like a pack of wild dogs on a rabbit, you know?

 

[Lockehead]

I personally think that PG is the most difficult position in the NBA to play. There are so many requirements necessary just to start with. But the main requirement, is experience. It took Steve Nash 5 years before he broke out and became a star. And I use him as an example, not because I think Fredette is the next Nash, but because Nash was known as an average athlete, that could shoot the ball.

Im going to go a step further. While i agree experience is important, for a PG, what's most important it BBIQ.

Usually a PG, is the primary ballhandler. If he's not, then he's the guy everybody look towards to make a decision. BBIQ plays a big part in how effective a PG would be in that aspect.

With Jimmer, he doesnt have the experience, or the athleticism. But, he has a pretty good BBIQ. The term "BBIQ" may be ambiguous, in more ways than one, but I think, on the basketball court, BBIQ comes down to decision making. The higher BBIQ a player has, the better decisions he maks. I don't have a particular knock on Jimmer's game in which decision making has been a primary factor. The shots he takes are good. The passes he makes are good. There are times when he gets double teamed, and he has a tendency to pick up his dribble, but in one of the last recent games, i forget which, i saw Jimmer get double teamed at half court, seemingly trapped, and ended up dribbling out of the double team to find the open man under the basket. That tells me he's learning.

The point is that Jimmer has a good BBIQ. And if he's going to be PG, i wouldn't object. The fact that he's a good shooter only helps us out.

 

[rainmaker]

Geez...

Is it so bad for fans of Jimmer to want to be able to post hopeful positive comments about their guy without being subjected to sarcasm, ridicule, etc? Jimmer and his fans have been targets of a lot of vitriolic rancor around here. Seems only fair and somewhat neighborly to at least back off on the rabid stuff. Personally, I think a few people around here need to just chillax. Let people express some hope and faith. It won't kill anybody else.

It's tough for newbies coming to this board, especially if they're here because their absolute favorite player has become a member of the Kings. I'd like to think that our members could welcome them instead of attacking some of them like a pack of wild dogs on a rabbit, you know?

So sarcasm isn't allowed in this thread? Not sure I took a shot at any new members here or said anything rabid, given the first two posters in this thread have a combined 74K posts.

I would agree new members shouldn't be attacked like dogs on a rabbit. I'll keep that in mind. I actually think we all can do a better job of that. I mean, just the other day I was jumped on for criticizing Smart's substitutions.

So yes, I'll keep that in mind when posting, and hopefully the culture here will start to turn. For the record, I wanted Jimmer when we drafted him, and still believe he'll be a very good NBA player. I just wish some didn't take honesty as player bashing. If I point out Jimmer is hurting us on defense, it's not because I don't like him or don't want him to do well. I want every Kings player to do as well as possible. That's why when I criticize, I do my best to make it clear I'm criticizing a certain facet of a players game or a coaches style, so people don't think I'm just bashing a player. And when the 60th pick severely outplays the 10th pick, criticism can and should happen, if people are paying attention.

Jimmer will be fine. As I've said a number of times here, after a full off season and training camp I think we'll see a much more confident/effective player next year.

 

[King Baller]

I think Jimmer is going to work out as a PG. He will take time to develop and certainly he has to adjust to the speed of the NBA. He will look better as the year goes on and he practices with the team more. His real improvement will be in the off season as he develops his body as a NBA defender.

KB

 

[BMiller52]

Geez...

Is it so bad for fans of Jimmer to want to be able to post hopeful positive comments about their guy without being subjected to sarcasm, ridicule, etc? Jimmer and his fans have been targets of a lot of vitriolic rancor around here. Seems only fair and somewhat neighborly to at least back off on the rabid stuff. Personally, I think a few people around here need to just chillax. Let people express some hope and faith. It won't kill anybody else.

It's tough for newbies coming to this board, especially if they're here because their absolute favorite player has become a member of the Kings. I'd like to think that our members could welcome them instead of attacking some of them like a pack of wild dogs on a rabbit, you know?

Not neccesarily sure this should be aimed at rainmaker, but I agree with this post 100%. All of this. I don't want to name names but it seems like a few people(I think 1 or 2 might've gotten banned) were happier when Jimmer failed rather than hoping for him to succeed, or would rather he turn into Juan Dixon so they can say I told you so than for him to be successfull. I realize he hasn't played great and his play has been eratic, bordering from pretty good to pretty bad at different times, but if you consider the circumstances and the comparisons such as Kemba Walker he's doing about average. And another thing, just because IT has outplayed him at times doesn't mean that Jimmer sucks, it just means that almost every freaking team missed on IT.

 

[upinsmoke]

Yes Jimmer's a PG he actually looked fair a few games this season as well but he might also be the slowest PG in the league.Make no mistake I wish him the best because he''s rockin our colors but let me ask a question, realistically what is his ceiling/best case scenerio?

 

[BMiller52]

Yes Jimmer's a PG he actually looked fair a few games this season as well but he might also be the slowest PG in the league.Make no mistake I wish him the best because he''s rockin our colors but let me ask a question, realistically what is his ceiling/best case scenerio?

As long as he handles the ball and passes well and continues to become a good shooter, he'll be just fine and could easily be a good starter. How fast was Mike Bibby or Steve Nash? Jimmer actually tested out with a 32 inch vert or so at the combine, and had a pretty good 3/4 court sprint. He showed good agility and stuff. I think this whole misconception that he's slow and unathletic comes from his tentative play on the court and that he hasn't had enough time to adjust. He can easily be a good player. I'm about to get flamed here, but you all just look at him and say "oh he's white and under 6'4'' so he must be unathletic and slow". Anyone who watched him in college knows that's not the case, anyone who looks at his combine numbers knows that's not the case, and you guys would rather stereotype the dude than give him time. He's 6'2'' in shoes, or 6'2.5'' or something like that. That's about average size for the PG position there are plenty of guys like Lawson and Felton who are shorter than him. Does he need to gain MUSCULAR STRENGTH? Yes, but that is a whole other category and can be improved on with a full offseason under the kings training staff and not having any school obligations.

 

[bajaden]

Im going to go a step further. While i agree experience is important, for a PG, what's most important it BBIQ.

Usually a PG, is the primary ballhandler. If he's not, then he's the guy everybody look towards to make a decision. BBIQ plays a big part in how effective a PG would be in that aspect.

With Jimmer, he doesnt have the experience, or the athleticism. But, he has a pretty good BBIQ. The term "BBIQ" may be ambiguous, in more ways than one, but I think, on the basketball court, BBIQ comes down to decision making. The higher BBIQ a player has, the better decisions he maks. I don't have a particular knock on Jimmer's game in which decision making has been a primary factor. The shots he takes are good. The passes he makes are good. There are times when he gets double teamed, and he has a tendency to pick up his dribble, but in one of the last recent games, i forget which, i saw Jimmer get double teamed at half court, seemingly trapped, and ended up dribbling out of the double team to find the open man under the basket. That tells me he's learning.

The point is that Jimmer has a good BBIQ. And if he's going to be PG, i wouldn't object. The fact that he's a good shooter only helps us out.

I agree that he has good BBIQ. Right now his two biggest things are lack of experience, and ballhandling. In college his ballhandling was fine, but he's trying to do the same things in the NBA that he did in college, and its not working. The players are quicker, and smarter, and there's five of them on the court at the same time. I say that cynicly, but in college, on average, your lucky if there's one potential NBA player on every team you play. Its a huge jump to the NBA, and it just takes time for most players.

I also think that players like I. Thomas, who work out, and play in a lot of pickup games with already established NBA players in the offseason, have a heads up on players like Jimmer that haven't. Its certainly not a cure all, but it at minimun, it introduces the player to the speed of NBA players. Certainly doesn't hurt to be as athletic as Thomas either. Ya gotta love the little guy.

 

[Henkel]

I watched Jimmer in college and this idea that he's clearly a pg isn't accurate in my opinion. He ran a offense based around getting him 20+ shots a game. That's not an easy thing to do productively, but it isn't anything approaching the type of offensive system he would asked to run on the next level. And you can't just proclaim a player a natural pg when that's the only system he has ever proven himself capable of running.

If he wants steady minutes he needs to make strides defensively and unfortunately this is where his lack of athleticism will always put him at a natural disadvantage.

 

[Henkel]

As long as he handles the ball and passes well and continues to become a good shooter, he'll be just fine and could easily be a good starter. How fast was Mike Bibby or Steve Nash? Jimmer actually tested out with a 32 inch vert or so at the combine, and had a pretty good 3/4 court sprint. He showed good agility and stuff. I think this whole misconception that he's slow and unathletic comes from his tentative play on the court and that he hasn't had enough time to adjust. He can easily be a good player. I'm about to get flamed here, but you all just look at him and say "oh he's white and under 6'4'' so he must be unathletic and slow". Anyone who watched him in college knows that's not the case, anyone who looks at his combine numbers knows that's not the case, and you guys would rather stereotype the dude than give him time. He's 6'2'' in shoes, or 6'2.5'' or something like that. That's about average size for the PG position there are plenty of guys like Lawson and Felton who are shorter than him. Does he need to gain MUSCULAR STRENGTH? Yes, but that is a whole other category and can be improved on with a full offseason under the kings training staff and not having any school obligations.

I don't think it's just a strength issue. Jimmer is often physically overwhelmed on the defensive end. This isn't anything new for him, it happened a few times throughout his college career as well and was always a concern for him when moving to the next level. A concern which looks well founded so far.

I see a guy too slow to match up with most starting pg's and not physically, in more ways then just strength, capable of handling two's.

 

[BMiller52]

I don't think it's just a strength issue. Jimmer is often physically overwhelmed on the defensive end. This isn't anything new for him, it happened a few times throughout his college career as well and was always a concern for him when moving to the next level. A concern which looks well founded so far.

I see a guy too slow to match up with most starting pg's and not physically, in more ways then just strength, capable of handling two's.

Meh, there are a whole lot of PGs in this league that don't play defense or that need to play in a zone defense. Once he gets schemes for zones down and we get a shotblocker back there he will look a lot better. The guy didn't even have an offseason yet as a pro and you guys want to say he's a bust because of some things he supposedly can't do on defense, even though the combine testing through a bunch of water on that fire. I'm not buying it. He will learn better technique, throw on some more muscle, get smarter, and become better defensively. If Mike Bibby can survive on a basketball court so can Jimmer.

Edit: And it's not like anybody on this team is better than average defensively, which is going to expose a rookie PG's defensive problems even more. If we still had Dalembert and had gotten someone like Battier our defense would be a lot better Jimmer or no Jimmer. Cousins is a decent defender but he's not a shotblocker, JT is average but he makes a lot of mistakes, Hickson's defense is terrible, Hayes has been banged up and is more of a man guy than a shotblocker, Salmons can't guard 3s atleast not anymore, Donte is about average defensively with potential to be better, Tyreke is inconsistent, Thornton is somewhat of a matador himself, IT has speed but regularly gets out matched when it comes to size, and Garcia is actually a decent defender. Blaming the team's defensive shortcomings on Jimmer is like saying a band aid doesn't work because it's covering the wound where you just managed to stick a chainsaw into your leg(btw for anyone wondering that actually happened to someone when my mom worked as a desk person at a walk in medical center, the guy had gotten a chainsaw stuck in his quad/thigh lol).