The big picture

[The Hammer]

One thing that seems to be puzzling me about this franchise is that I don't see a cohesive plan for the future about accomplishing what supposedly this team is trying to do: win a championship. Are we rebuilding completely? Trying to rebuild on the fly so that the franchise keeps attendance up and doesn't have any losing seasons? Trying to win it all with what we have? There have been many interesting things revealed and stated in the threads about this whole AI thing, but the main question that remains in my mind is: What in the bejeezus is the plan?

Do people think Petrie has one? Is it getting compromised by the Maloofs trying to meddle? Did it get derailed by a funky start to this season? Have we been preparing, and will continue to prepare for the '07 off-season and draft? Do you think Petrie is toying around to see what the plan should even be?

 

[nbrans]

One thing that seems to be puzzling me about this franchise is that I don't see a cohesive plan for the future about accomplishing what supposedly this team is trying to do: win a championship. Are we rebuilding completely? Trying to rebuild on the fly so that the franchise keeps attendance up and doesn't have any losing seasons? Trying to win it all with what we have? There have been many interesting things revealed and stated in the threads about this whole AI thing, but the main question that remains in my mind is: What in the bejeezus is the plan?

Do people think Petrie has one? Is it getting compromised by the Maloofs trying to meddle? Did it get derailed by a funky start to this season? Have we been preparing, and will continue to prepare for the '07 off-season and draft? Do you think Petrie is toying around to see what the plan should even be?

"The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

 

[The Hammer]

Well I'm not talking about anything too detailed here. Just a general approach.

 

[tyrant]

i dont know what's going on with petrie. he's made some great trades in the past. webber, bibby, clark, jim jackson, the artest trade that saved our season last year. its just that for the past 2 years they've been ignoring what we need the most. a big man. a championship cannot be won with the front court we have now. unless we had a duo like a healthy artest and iverson.

 

[tyrant]

Trying to rebuild on the fly so that the franchise keeps attendance up and doesn't have any losing seasons?

basically

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Do people think Petrie has one? Is it getting compromised by the Maloofs trying to meddle?

I'm starting to question whether Petrie does have a plan or whether its just the Maloofs meddling too much.

The AI thing screamed quick fix, even though it was an opportunity to bring in a major talent and someone who would attract interest to the franchise again. I would have been ok with the deal but obviously its a spur of the moment opportunity that presented itself not something you plan for.

I believe the coaching change signified the franchise's intention to go forward with a major rebuild even though that's not how it was sold to the fans. But I suspect the lukewarm reaction Kings fans have had to the team may be driving the Maloofs to rethink this strategy and go back to trying to "patch the leak" which I think is a mistake at this point.

But a lot of the leak has been created by Petrie's inability or unwillingness to bring in any type of defense oriented big player into the mix to solidify our front court. This has been an ongoing problem for several seasons now and has to be considered independent of anything the Maloofs have done to meddle with the rest of the team.

 

[nbrans]

I think people might be reading too much into the inability to get AI.

Hall of Famer is/was available. It's a no-brainer to go for this team to go for it. Didn't work out. Sucks for us fans who got our hopes up, but life in the NBA goes on, just as it did for the teams that missed out on Artest, and the ones who missed out on McGrady, and Shaq, etc. etc. etc.

 

[VF21]

Part of this isn't about the team at all. It's about the "instant gratification" syndrome suffered by a lot of fans.

Teams peak and then ebb. It's part of the process. Our team has been trying, IMHO, to maintain a certain number of wins while trying to rebuild for the next GREAT team. I don't know if that was the right way to go or not.

I believe the coaching change signified the franchise's intention to go forward with a major rebuild even though that's not how it was sold to the fans. But I suspect the lukewarm reaction Kings fans have had to the team may be driving the Maloofs to rethink this strategy and go back to trying to "patch the leak" which I think is a mistake at this point.

I'm tempted to believe just the opposite. I think the Musselman hiring was the attempt at the quick fix. They may now be having to face the reality of a true rebuild this off-season.

 

[Bricklayer]

No plan for winning. Just trying not to lose. This A.I. thing itself was really just a desperate stab, and with its failure, we're now probably in an even worse position than we were before.

I mean, virtually EVERYTHING we've done in recent years has been reactive and half assed. Our two very middling free agents (Reef, Salmons) both fell in our laps when deals they had with other teams fell apart. We firesaled Webb to absolutely zero effect -- panic move. We've shipped off pieces for multiple pretty good guards in the last year of their contracts, then made passes at resigning them, but failed. Acquired "flexible pieces" that have in the end turned up to be unmovable. Keep inviting long shot kids to camp every year with semi-gauranteed money, and then in the end cutting them. Got a wacky potentially cancerous team leader who again just fell into our lap when his erratic behavior uinexpectedly blew up hs former team. Fired a 700 win coach with no real plan on who to replace him wiht, tried to replace him with the family friend, got talked out of that, went wiht the kid who interviewed best... There is no plan. And consider this: how bad would this franchise be right now if Kevin, a #20 something pick in the draft, hadn't blossomed? That's really the only move keeping this thing from being a debacle.

At some point you just have to grow up, give up the ghost, and hatch an actual plan to come around strong in a few years.

 

[nbrans]

No plan for winning. Just trying not to lose. This A.I. thing itself was really just a desperate stab, and with its failure, we're now probably in an even worse position than we were before. At some point you just have to grow up, give up the ghost, and hatch an actual plan to come around strong in a few years.

Er, worse than before? How is that? Does that mean that all 10 or however many teams that inquired/put in offers for AI are also worse?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm tempted to believe just the opposite. I think the Musselman hiring was the attempt at the quick fix. They may now be having to face the reality of a true rebuild this off-season.

Its possible, but then I look back to the coach Whiz scenario, which to me seemed like a setup to tank the season. I think the Maloofs realized they couldn't sell that to the fans and so they went with a marketable option. I like Muss, I'm pretty sure I was the first person that suggested bringing him in on the boards when Adelman was sent packing, but I also don't think he's anywhere near a championship caliber coach. Nor were any of the other options we were considering, they were all young guys with lots of perceived upside with little or no experience as head coach.

I think you're dead on with "instant gratification". Its hard to go from where we were to where we are, even for us old timers. I know I find myself losing interest during blowouts when I used to be riveted to the screen knowing a comeback was iminent.

 

[The Hammer]

No plan for winning. Just trying not to lose. This A.I. thing itself was really just a desperate stab, and with its failure, we're now probably in an even worse position than we were before.

I mean, virtually EVERYTHING we've done in recent years has been reactive and half assed. Our two very middling free agents (Reef, Salmons) both fell in our laps when deals they had with other teams fell apart. We firesaled Webb to absolutely zero effect -- panic move. We've shipped off pieces for multiple pretty good guards in the last year of their contracts, then made passes at resigning them, but failed. Acquired "flexible pieces" that have in the end turned up to be unmovable. Keep inviting long shot kids to camp every year with semi-gauranteed money, and then in the end cutting them. Got a wacky potentially cancerous team leader who again just fell into our lap when his erratic behavior uinexpectedly blew up hs former team. Fired a 700 win coach with no real plan on who to replace him wiht, tried to replace him with the family friend, got talked out of that, went wiht the kid who interviewed best... There is no plan. And consider this: how bad would this franchise be right now if Kevin, a #20 something pick in the draft, hadn't blossomed? That's really the only move keeping this thing from being a debacle.

At some point you just have to grow up, give up the ghost, and hatch an actual plan to come around strong in a few years.

Agree with pretty much everything you said. But I would add: Kevin may be the brightest part of our future. Perhaps our approach has been trolling around in the dark and searching for any bright lights, and using that to define and guide where you go. Well, we got one with Martin. I'm not saying that we bank on him being the future face of the franchise, but he's definitely a major keeper. Now, perhaps the question is, what do you add to him?

 

[Bricklayer]

Er, worse than before? How is that? Does that mean that all 10 or however many teams that inquired/put in offers for AI are also worse?

1) we were doing the talking, not the Sixers, not the media. Different thing.

2) those teams weren't shopping an absolutely core key guy with an opt out clause in his contract

3) but yes, several of them I think will be hurt. Golden State especially were idiots for dangling Baron's name unless they actually pull off the deal (in which case they are still idiots -- makes no sense), Names can be floated by media, kids, picks, secondary players. But you can't actively pursue a trade with tempermental main guys and fail. Now you've laid a big turd in your own locker room. And when those guys then have the ability to return the favor and just walk away...oh yeah. Now you've made things worse than they were to start. Great for team cohesiveness and that all for one spirit.

 

[chelle]

I have to agree. It seems that the moves we have made over the past 3 seasons were not part of a "master plan" as I had hoped, but merely a reaction to other things. I think, sadly, that it is time to enter a full rebuilding mode. Not a fix-it-on-the-fly type of thing. The problem now is how will it affect the arena deal. We need a new arena to keep them in Sac. But will the average fan stick around and support a new arena AT ALL, or even keep attending games if we do not at least have the facade of being a competitor each year?

 

[chelle]

1) Now you've laid a big tur\ in your own locker room. And when those guys then have the ability to return the favor and just walk away...oh yeah. Now you've made things worse than they were to start. Great for team cohesiveness and that all for one spirit.

That is what I am worried about now.

 

[nbrans]

1) we were doing the talking, not the Sixers, not the media. Different thing.

2) those teams weren't shopping a guy with an absolutely core key guy wiht an opt out clause in his contract

3) but yes, several of them I think will be hurt. Golden State especially were idiots for dangling Baron's name unless they actually pull off the deal (in which case they are still idiots -- makes no sense), Names can be floated by media, kids, picks, secondary players. But you can't actively pursue a trade with tempermental main guys and fail. Now you've laid a big tur\ in your own locker room. And when those guys then have the ability to return the favor and just walk away...oh yeah. Now you've made things worse than they were to start. Great for team cohesiveness and that all for one spirit.

I just don't think it's such a big deal. When a better player is available you go for it. I mean, was Petrie supposed to sit around and worry about people's feelings?

Bibby already said he's opting out. What was there to lose?

Either this team goes for it and is aggressive or you sit back because it might upset Bibby. I'll take aggressive, thanks.

 

[VF21]

I just don't think it's such a big deal. When a better player is available you go for it. I mean, was Petrie supposed to sit around and worry about people's feelings?

Bibby already said he's opting out. What was there to lose?

Either this team goes for it and is aggressive or you sit back because it might upset Bibby. I'll take aggressive, thanks.

Actually, neither Mike nor his agent have said any such thing. It's been speculated and someone posted a misleading thread here where they made their own opinion look like fact, but Mike has not - to my knowledge - made any such announcement and I'd be really, really, really surprised if he had.

 

[Bricklayer]

I just don't think it's such a big deal. When a better player is available you go for it. I mean, was Petrie supposed to sit around and worry about people's feelings?

Bibby already said he's opting out. What was there to lose?

Either this team goes for it and is aggressive or you sit back because it might upset Bibby. I'll take aggressive, thanks.

I don't mind aggressive, like it in fact -- but when you fall short there are consequences.

There are 7 teams clealry pulling away in the West. Leaves 1 lousy guaranteed first round exit playoff spot for everybody else to fight over. We're already struggling, hurting, chemistryless, needing to come together. And now by failing we've made it even harder to do so. Not impossible, but harder and teetering. One major injury, one player demanding a trade, and we are tumbling. Worst part is that since we don't have a plan, I have little hope we wise up, cash out, and go with it. There are few merits to winning 38 games and missing the playoffs to draft #14 rather than winning 28 games and missing the playoffs wiht a roster full of kids and the #6 pick. Actually almost no merits.

 

[nbrans]

Actually, neither Mike nor his agent have said any such thing. It's been speculated and someone posted a misleading thread here where they made their own opinion look like fact, but Mike has not - to my knowledge - made any such announcement and I'd be really, really, really surprised if he had.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Still. I don't think there's anything to lose. Either Mike picks up the option, the Kings have cap room or they re-sign him to a new deal. It's not a bad situation for the Kings no matter what happens.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Regardless of whether Bibby is opting out or not, from all the AI talk it sure seems like Bibby and Artest aren't seeing eye to eye and if that's the case Bibby is gone.

 

[piksi]

Regardless of whether Bibby is opting out or not, from all the AI talk it sure seems like Bibby and Artest aren't seeing eye to eye and if that's the case Bibby is gone.

and Ron will follow soon too

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

No plan for winning. Just trying not to lose. This A.I. thing itself was really just a desperate stab, and with its failure, we're now probably in an even worse position than we were before.

I mean, virtually EVERYTHING we've done in recent years has been reactive and half assed. Our two very middling free agents (Reef, Salmons) both fell in our laps when deals they had with other teams fell apart. We firesaled Webb to absolutely zero effect -- panic move. We've shipped off pieces for multiple pretty good guards in the last year of their contracts, then made passes at resigning them, but failed. Acquired "flexible pieces" that have in the end turned up to be unmovable. Keep inviting long shot kids to camp every year with semi-gauranteed money, and then in the end cutting them. Got a wacky potentially cancerous team leader who again just fell into our lap when his erratic behavior uinexpectedly blew up hs former team. Fired a 700 win coach with no real plan on who to replace him wiht, tried to replace him with the family friend, got talked out of that, went wiht the kid who interviewed best... There is no plan. And consider this: how bad would this franchise be right now if Kevin, a #20 something pick in the draft, hadn't blossomed? That's really the only move keeping this thing from being a debacle.

At some point you just have to grow up, give up the ghost, and hatch an actual plan to come around strong in a few years.

Wasnt that what Utah just did?? I digress...

 

[Bricklayer]

Wasnt that what Utah just did?? I digress...

Took a few years to come into focus but Utah basically did it the way its done: big cap room = Mehmet, Boozer. And then got themselves a high lottery pick to nab them a young star PG (Williams). Voila. Ak is like Kevin, a young surprising 20-something pick picked in the dying days of empire. So at that rate, since its taken the Jazz seven years since Ak was drafted, and we are in Yr 3 with Kevin, if we get to the actual rebuilding here we can maybe come out the other side in about 4 more years.

Whihc is why I continue to insist we speed it up -- cash out, load up on youth, trust Geoff to draft right.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Or we get lucky like the Spurs and hit the lotto on our first try and become contenders for the next decade. I don't think that's likely but even if we fall low enough where we can pick up a big with legit potential like the Lakers did with Bynum we'll be better off for it.

My only worry is that Petrie will draft another scoring swing man.

 

[DaMan]

Took a few years to come into focus but Utah basically did it the way its done: big cap room = Mehmet, Boozer. And then got themselves a high lottery pick to nab them a young star PG (Williams). Voila. Ak is like Kevin, a young surprising 20-something pick picked in the dying days of empire. So at that rate, since its taken the Jazz seven years, if we get to the actual rebuilding here we can maybe come out the other side in about 4 more years.

Whihc is why I continue to insist we speed it up -- cash out, load up, trust Geoff .

The wait and the losing is the worst thing about rebuilding. And it might take years for a team to get it done right, but when they do its worth the wait.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The wait and the losing is the worst thing about rebuilding. And it might take years for a team to get it done right, but when they do its worth the wait.

Actually it usually takes years to get right because the fans start screaming for results. A small market team with a history of losing should actually be able to overcome this easier than a city like Boston or New York, unfortunately we have the double whammy of an arena issue dogging the franchise right now.

 

[chelle]

Regardless of whether Bibby is opting out or not, from all the AI talk it sure seems like Bibby and Artest aren't seeing eye to eye and if that's the case Bibby is gone.

I must have missed that. What has happened between them that makes people think that they are having problems? I am not doubting you, but I have not seen any of this.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I must have missed that. What has happened between them that makes people think that they are having problems? I am not doubting you, but I have not seen any of this.

It seemed to be a recurring theme in the media articles that were snippeted in some of the AI discussion threads today. It was the first I heard of it too. How much is pure conjecture I honestly have no clue.

 

[The Hammer]

The wait and the losing is the worst thing about rebuilding. And it might take years for a team to get it done right, but when they do its worth the wait.

To me, the losing is actually not so bad if there is a feeling that there is a general positive direction being adhered to. Losing when you're trying to win is one thing, losing when you are building for an attack later on is different, you can take the games as learning processes and let players develop and learn. You become not so concerned with a W or L but with how your players are progressing.

 

[LMM]

I must have missed that. What has happened between them that makes people think that they are having problems? I am not doubting you, but I have not seen any of this.

Saw a blurb about it on one of the articles in the AI trade talks.

I chalk it up to rumors chewed as fact. I mean, why are those rumors just coming up now? If something, anything, was brewing between them, I'd think the bee would be all over it to sell newspapers.

Also, if Ron really did have a problem with Mike, I don't think he could keep his mouth shut.

Of course, I'm speculating just like most people are.