Teague vs. Rubio

[nbrans]

I know I'm not going crazy then... Yes you do have to watch the games. Then nbrans, why are you posting and comparing stats? Nobody is saying Teauge will not be good. He is just not the PG answer here. He's a scorer. It's a mentality you can't just turn on and off (unless you are one of the greats) and he has not shown he can run a team with his passing ablity. I think that's the major concecuss.

Good lord, does it all have to be either/or? You can ONLY use stats or ONLY watch the games?

It's a blend. You watch the games, you watch the stats, you try and think of comparisons and try to keep in mind chemistry and team needs and the types of players who succeed in the NBA.

 

[HighTopKicks]

I dont think anyone is trying to say teague is the ONLY guy who would be able to score for us in the final minute of a game. But if it comes down to a point where we need a bucket, and the other four guys cant get good looks to score for us in those final minutes, or cant get open, I would prefer a guy who can get us that bucket on his own, instead of having a very unproven scoring option out there with the defense knowing he is going to try and dish it off to someone else. I feel teague has proved himself as more of a guy who can get that bucket, and its pretty clear we dont currently have players who can create for themselves if dishing to their other 4 options are shut off. teague could fill that void for us.

Once again, I havent seen a ton of Rubio, so I'm not gonna say that eventually he cant be a guy that can make his own shots, but from what ive seen of teague, I know he has all the tools and then some to be a very potent offensive player when his team needs him to get buckets. I'm not against rubio, but ive seen a lot of teague and just reallly like what i see potential wise.

I understand what Nbans comments were about. Sometime I get a little frustrated, and sometimes I guess I just like to shake people up to check their resolve. I'm sure Teague would be a good option, but there's no guarantee that he would be better than Rubio.

Watch CP3 during the Kings game, and he didn't need to beat any one off the dribble. He didn't use blinding speed to get to open spots or to the rim. He played a simple pick & roll, then he made the correct decision & NO scored easily everytime. Rubio plays the pick & roll very well & has the BB IQ to make the right decisions. Depending on how he's defended, he's going to get a short jumper or layup, if that's denied then he's going to get it low to the big, and if that's denied he's going to find someone who is open, and if all that fails congradulations to the defense, game well played. And, I can live with that.

What I objected to mostly about nbans comments where his comments that our core players were incapable of getting open or making a open shot. Get real, Martin can't get open, not even with a couple of screens. For crying out load, we just got rid of Salmon, a guy who never used a screen to free up and go to the basket.

The idea that only a multipurpose PG is capable of taking a last sec shot to win the game is ludicrous. We have a game based on movement, screens & picks. The problem isn't that every team we play has better defenders and can shut down all of our offensive plays. The problem is we don't have the guy who can run the offensive plays. Who can get the ball to the guy coming off the screens when they are open. If the team is as bad at getting open as nbrans said, then the oponent is just going to double team the guy with the ball & clog up the lane. And, it wouldn't make any difference if we had MJ at the point let alone Teague.

 

[nbrans]

What I objected to mostly about nbans comments where his comments that our core players were incapable of getting open or making a open shot. Get real, Martin can't get open, not even with a couple of screens. For crying out load, we just got rid of Salmon, a guy who never used a screen to free up and go to the basket.

The idea that only a multipurpose PG is capable of taking a last sec shot to win the game is ludicrous. We have a game based on movement, screens & picks. The problem isn't that every team we play has better defenders and can shut down all of our offensive plays. The problem is we don't have the guy who can run the offensive plays. Who can get the ball to the guy coming off the screens when they are open. If the team is as bad at getting open as nbrans said, then the oponent is just going to double team the guy with the ball & clog up the lane. And, it wouldn't make any difference if we had MJ at the point let alone Teague.

Uhhhhh.......

Yeah. Sure. Wouldn't want MJ in crunch time because the other team might double him. The horror.

First of all, if you think Martin can create his own shot in crunch time I really don't know what team you've been watching the last couple of years. He's really not good at it. He's good at garbage points, he's good at open shots, he's good at creating when there are opportunities. He's really bad at getting the ball when everyone knows the Kings need to score and getting a good look.

And I think the notion that a point guard can't be the guy who gets you a shot when you need one would come as news to Chauncey Billups, Allen Iverson, heck, even Mike Bibby was our best chance for several years. It doesn't have to be a wing.

In case you haven't noticed, or rather, BECAUSE you haven't noticed, ball and player movement freezes up in the closing minutes of game because the defense cracks down, the refs swallow their whistles, and your ability to get a shot largely depends on the solo efforts of your players, not on your pretty ball movement and passing.

Sure -- all of our players can hit open shots. I'm not blind, and I never said they couldn't. They're not good, however, at getting the ball and getting a good look when everyone knows they're going to shoot it. And your best opportunity at getting good looks when you have someone who can hit shots breaking down the defense. If everyone knows your point guard is going to pass he's not particularly difficult to stop. You want someone who is a deadly threat to score. You HOPE people double him so someone else will be open. Your slow pass first point guard who everyone knows is going to pass ain't getting doubled.

It may be premature to be worrying about this when the team has 11 wins, and I get that. It's hardly the only reason to draft a player. But you're just spouting nonsense at this point.

 

[rainmaker]

There have been more than a few pg's with great scoring ability which haven't won anything(marbury, francis, b. davis) to name a few. Most of the great pg's came into the league with playmaking ability and improved their scoring over time(KJ, Nash, CP3, Parker). I would prefer having a pg with proven playmaking ability who can improve on offense rather than a scorer who will hopefully improve their playmaking.
There are very few pg's in league history that clear out at the end of games and take over with their scoring. I don't want our pg leading the team in scoring. I want everyone on the floor to be a threat, and anyone who is going to take over games like Lebron or Kobe is not on our roster or in this draft. We will have to acquire them through a trade. But that is not something I need in our pg.

 

[beb0p]

I'm so glad that somebody else agrees with me in the fact that the notion of pass first PGs not winning championships is ridicilous. This is a team game, and as such, the whole team has to be involved. How many championships did the lakers win with Kobe flying the ship? Ohhh... they needed a big man that nobody in the NBA (of the NFL im guessing) could stop. Funny. A shoot first PG kills his team in the way that it eliminates his teammates. When one guy is initiating and finishing a play, it relegates the rest of the team to just watch, making the offense as a whole easier to defend.

That is absolutely not the point anyone is making here. No one is longing for a shoot-first ball-hog like Marbury.

Look, it's not an either/or. You need a PG who can either spread the floor, defend, or both. That's it. Many of you think any PG who passes the ball is a pass-first PG and that's not the type anyone is proposing. Maybe I should have said "Old school, pass-first, can't shoot, can't defend, slow, but very unselfish PG who needs the ball to be effective."

In over two decades, no championship team has ever featured a slow PG who can't shoot and can't defend but nevertheless dominates the ball and make fancy passes. JWill is the closest to said type but he is quick, can space the floor, and he doesn't dominates the ball. Championship teams don't need the PG to pound the ball and create for others.

Name one championship PG who can't shoot, isn't quick, can't defend, but has a great bball IQ and great intangibles. That's the point I'm making. So please don't twist it into something else.

 

[Smills91]

I think the recipe for a successful PG to win a championshop with is a guy who is definitely pass-first, but can also hit a wide-open jump shot with range out to the 3 point line.

Rondo may be the lone exception to the rule, but even his jump shooting has been passable lately.

 

[beb0p]

I think the recipe for a successful PG to win a championshop with is a guy who is definitely pass-first, but can also hit a wide-open jump shot with range out to the 3 point line.

Rondo may be the lone exception to the rule, but even his jump shooting has been passable lately.

I won't say that pass-first is a requirement because guys like John Paxson, Sam Cassell, BJ Armstrong, and Derek Fisher are very trigger happy PG (to varying degree of course), but it helps if the PG can make great passes though it's not a necessity.

But there were many times at the 2008 Final when the Celts had to take out Rondo and inserted Eddie House, in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter no less, because they needed a PG who can space the floor. And I bet if the BBall God can make Rondo a much better shooter but takes away most of his passing ability, the Celtics would say go ahead do it.

 

[beb0p]

The idea that only a multipurpose PG is capable of taking a last sec shot to win the game is ludicrous. We have a game based on movement, screens & picks.

That's an interesting scenario in the context of Teague vs. Rubio.

Who'd you prefer to take a last sec shot, Teague or Rubio?

In my case, it's Teague hands down because Rubio can't shoot unless he's wide, wide, wide, wide open. But the chance that a last sec shot is wide open is minimal.

Another scenario, who'd you rather have the ball with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock? Teague or Rubio? For me, it's Teague again because he has the speed to create something out of nothing. Rubio usuallly needs a pick and roll to free himself and there's not enough time for that; and I've seen him struggled mightily when the pick n roll isn't an option.

 

[bench_blob]

I wouldn't put Rubio as a defender ahead of Teague -- Rubio seems to have great hands, but I'm really not convinced he's going to be able to stay in front of NBA point guards. And Teague also has good hands. At best the jury is out on that.

I of course haven't made any secret that I much, much prefer Teague. People have been passing around Rubio highlight reels. Have you seen Teague's?

How about this high flying act (and yes, offensive foul, but still):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrGMw7RrmI4&feature=related

Or this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMloa7mmJPU&feature=related

Want to see him get to the rim? Check out the FSU game recap video here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290450154

Want to see passing? Check out the BC recap video:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290390154

Meanwhile, he's shooting 50% from 3 point land. 50%!!!

The knock on him is that he's not really a point guard. But he's not playing point guard for Wake. He has good vision, but he plays off the ball and just isn't really called upon to make things happen. Ask Dino Gaudio why that is.

You want star power? Go with the freakish athlete who can shoot, get the rim, and handle. I'd much rather bet that Teague becomes a better passer than I would pray Rubio is going to be quick enough to handle the quick PGs. Teague can improve his passing. Rubio can't improve his quickness.

So...do you like him?

j/k Teague's game reminds me of Nate Robinson with better size. And Nate is turning into a real good pro. I just wish Teague had a better assist to turnover ratio and more PG instincts.

Obviously a lot of variables at play, but unless we do something stupid and start winning games, good likelihood Teague's on the board when we pick.

 

[bench_blob]

I haven't seen Rubio play, so I won't comment on him. I have seen Teague play several times, and I'm sold. Look, the guy has quickness of the quickest point guards in the NBA - Tony Parker, C. Paul, Connelly, D. Harris. Then he has a shooting touch as good as any guard in the NBA. That's all you need to know. If you want to have a guard with lightning quicks, who can get to the hole anytime he wants, who can create a shot anytime he wants, and who shoots "lights-out", then he's your guy. If you're obsessed about having a "true" point guard, then he's not. He'll just be drafted by somebody else and beat our brains in every time we play them.

And by the way, Teague can defend. I've seen him block the shots of guards while making up ground of about 10-12 feet. You don't see that everyday.

This is a great point, quickness is at a ridiculous premium across the league, when you look at guys like Monta Ellis, Chris Paul, our own Kevin Martin, even a guy like Dwight Howard abuses in the post because he's so quick off his feet.

I love the idea of us teaming up K-Mart with a PG who is equal or superior quickness. (Beno ain't that guy.) If we are going to build our team around K-Mart, we need players who are FAST.

 

[bench_blob]

And for all the Ricky Rubio fans, how about this for a worst case scenario/comparison (pre-car accident, to be fair):

Bobby Hurley.

Bobby Hurley had GREAT point guard instincts, always was looking to find the open man, knew how to run a break, did not have the size of Rubio, but....

...he was overwhelmed on the pro level because players were bigger, faster, stronger, and more skilled as scorers.

Neither Rubio and Hurley have shown a knack for scoring, have less than overwhelming athletic ability, and look to shoot only as a last option.

PGs nowadays have to be a consistent threat to score. Chris Paul took over as a scorer the other night when the game was on the line. Rubio scares me. I hope Geoff Petrie is having doubts too.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Bobby Hurley was listed 6'0 / 165 lbs. He was more like a skinny 5'10-5'11. Ricky Rubio is between 6'3-6'4 and probably still growing at 18 year of age.

 

[Gary]

And for all the Ricky Rubio fans, how about this for a worst case scenario/comparison (pre-car accident, to be fair):

Bobby Hurley.

Bobby Hurley had GREAT point guard instincts, always was looking to find the open man, knew how to run a break, did not have the size of Rubio, but....

...he was overwhelmed on the pro level because players were bigger, faster, stronger, and more skilled as scorers.

Neither Rubio and Hurley have shown a knack for scoring, have less than overwhelming athletic ability, and look to shoot only as a last option.

PGs nowadays have to be a consistent threat to score. Chris Paul took over as a scorer the other night when the game was on the line. Rubio scares me. I hope Geoff Petrie is having doubts too.

There were a couple comparisons actually.. I am going to go with both my, and Vlade4GM's worst case and mix them together..

Worst case for Rubio is a mix between Luke Ridnour and Jason Williams.

 

[Sarunas]

That's an interesting scenario in the context of Teague vs. Rubio.

Who'd you prefer to take a last sec shot, Teague or Rubio?

In my case, it's Teague hands down because Rubio can't shoot unless he's wide, wide, wide, wide open. But the chance that a last sec shot is wide open is minimal.

Another scenario, who'd you rather have the ball with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock? Teague or Rubio? For me, it's Teague again because he has the speed to create something out of nothing. Rubio usuallly needs a pick and roll to free himself and there's not enough time for that; and I've seen him struggled mightily when the pick n roll isn't an option.

Great great points beb0p...I just dont get where everyone is coming out with this, he doesnt look like he can run a team because he isnt doing so on wake forest. Well, he cant because for some reason Gaudio plays him at the 2, yet he still leads his team in assists. I dont think we can expect him to be leading and directing the offense when he doesnt always play at that position, but he still shows great vision and the ability to find open teammates, especially when his own offensive penetration and abilites opens players up. He makes much more happen with his passing than ben gordon ever did at uconn, not to mention his first step is quicker, and that in itself opens up teammates when he goes to the rack.

In all, I'm not saying rubio will never be able to develop skills to get off his own shot if he needs to, or that he will never get quicker, or that he wont ever be a good shooter...I thnik rubio will be a very good player. I just think teague has a higher cieling because he can create shots, he has elite quickness, he is a very good shooter, he has all those tools already. Personally I am all for picking guys with very high best case scenarios in the top 5, and I think teagues best case is better then rubios best case.

 

[Aenadin]

creating ones shot is easy... creating for others now that is more difficult
having the savvy and brains at a young age is something else too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhcl5WUjRZY&feature=PlayList&p=FA666B3B782C36F9&playnext=1&index=10

1:10-1:17 is pretty nifty

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

First of all, why on earth are people accepting as a truth that if you have a pass first point guard then that means in the end of the game he has to be the guy to shoot or get someone else a shot? That is simply ludicrous. If a team is going to be at the contending level there is going to be AT LEAST one guy that will be able to create/make his own shot at the end of the game. Plain and simple. We're talking about the NBA here, if a team is contending you're going to have some guys who can get themselves open.
Second, since when is Rubio a poor defender? One of his well known strengths is his D. Maybe he wont be quick enough to guard the Chris Pauls and Derrick Roses of the world, but he's 6'4" people. Move him over to the opponents 2 or 3 in those rare cases and he'll be fine.
Third, you guys say that no team with a distributing point has won a ship lately. While that is not true (See Williams, Jason; Rondo, Rajon) i'll grant it for the sake of argument. Just because a pass first point hasn't won a championship doesn't mean that not having one is the only way to win. Teams can't win a championship without a star player, oh wait, the pistons did. Teams can't win a championship without a dominate big man, oh wait, the bulls did. Teams can't win a championship without someone to stretch the floor and knock down threes, oh wait, the '99 Spurs did. etc. Point being, theres more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak..
Also, while I really think this whole Rubio v Teague thing is dumb, you guys keep screaming about the fact that Teague isn't the primary ball handler in Wake's offense.. so given that fact, his 3 TO's a game dont scare you? not even a little?

 

[nbrans]

Is Rubio's defense that great? Honest question, and please don't tell me what DraftExpress says. Against Team USA it didn't look particularly special and he got burned by CP3 on a fast break in particular. And in all the highlight reels I've seen of his defense online his Euro team is playing a 2/3 zone. Which, yeah, ok, he's getting steals, but it's not the same thing and is not going to happen in the NBA.

And how can it be great if even his defenders admit he can't hope to guard the Roses and Pauls of the world? He's a great defender, he just can't guard the good ones?

 

[nbrans]

Also, while I really think this whole Rubio v Teague thing is dumb, you guys keep screaming about the fact that Teague isn't the primary ball handler in Wake's offense.. so given that fact, his 3 TO's a game dont scare you? not even a little?

Blake Griffin turns the ball over 3 times a game. So does James Harden. So does Jordan Hill. So does Earl Clark. So does Al-Farouq Aminu. Greg Monroe turns it over 2.5 times a game.

It's college. The game is sloppy. Just about everyone who handles the ball for any length of time has 3 tos.

 

[Entity]

Blake Griffin turns the ball over 3 times a game. So does James Harden. So does Jordan Hill. So does Earl Clark. So does Al-Farouq Aminu. Greg Monroe turns it over 2.5 times a game.


It's college. The game is sloppy. Just about everyone who handles the ball for any length of time has 3 tos.

Just for ****s and giggles. Kevin Martin averages 2.8 TO's a game.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

Is Rubio's defense that great? Honest question, and please don't tell me what DraftExpress says. Against Team USA it didn't look particularly special and he got burned by CP3 on a fast break in particular. And in all the highlight reels I've seen of his defense online his Euro team is playing a 2/3 zone. Which, yeah, ok, he's getting steals, but it's not the same thing and is not going to happen in the NBA.

And how can it be great if even his defenders admit he can't hope to guard the Roses and Pauls of the world? He's a great defender, he just can't guard the good ones?

Alright first of all, i never said he was a great defender, I was only trying to push back against you saying hes a horrible one. Second of all, no he didn't look that great against CP3 which is what I stated in my original argument. Third, hes not as quick as Paul and Rose so he probably wouldn't be able to guard them consistently.. who can? So yeah, switch him over to the opponents 2 when we play the 4 or 5 teams that he would have difficulty with and we'll be a ok.

 

[beb0p]

So yeah, switch him over to the opponents 2 when we play the 4 or 5 teams that he would have difficulty with and we'll be a ok.

If there's only four or five teams who give him problem, I can stomach that. Although it's far from ideal.

But I counted eight PGs in the Western Conference alone who will give Rubio problems. Overall worse case scenario: we'll need to hide him in about half the teams we face.

However, I'm sure we'd all tolerate poor defense if the PG is some sort of future HOF kind of player. I think Rubio is good, but I just don't think he is franchise player good.

 

[ParniValjak]

They're not expectations, they're best case scenarios. There's a huge difference.

Teague's college stats as a sophomore:
20.3 ppg, 3.5 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 51% FG, 51% 3P, 83% FT

Harris's college stats as a junior:
19.5 ppg, 4.3 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 46% FG, 37% 3P, 79% FT

I just don't buy stats comparisons like these. It doesn't take into account the variables.

The system that teams run, the competition they face. Is it easier to put up big numbers against the teams that don't have as much talent?

This is considered a weak draft class. Can you tell me that a player X would put up the same numbers against this lot than say against last year's lot?!

And you seem to harp on about Rubio not being an athletic freak of nature but aren't you just a little bit concerned by Teague's A/T ratio. Especially considering he is not their primary ball handler?!

 

[HighTopKicks]

Uhhhhh.......

Yeah. Sure. Wouldn't want MJ in crunch time because the other team might double him. The horror.

First of all, if you think Martin can create his own shot in crunch time I really don't know what team you've been watching the last couple of years. He's really not good at it. He's good at garbage points, he's good at open shots, he's good at creating when there are opportunities. He's really bad at getting the ball when everyone knows the Kings need to score and getting a good look.

And I think the notion that a point guard can't be the guy who gets you a shot when you need one would come as news to Chauncey Billups, Allen Iverson, heck, even Mike Bibby was our best chance for several years. It doesn't have to be a wing.

In case you haven't noticed, or rather, BECAUSE you haven't noticed, ball and player movement freezes up in the closing minutes of game because the defense cracks down, the refs swallow their whistles, and your ability to get a shot largely depends on the solo efforts of your players, not on your pretty ball movement and passing.

Sure -- all of our players can hit open shots. I'm not blind, and I never said they couldn't. They're not good, however, at getting the ball and getting a good look when everyone knows they're going to shoot it. And your best opportunity at getting good looks when you have someone who can hit shots breaking down the defense. If everyone knows your point guard is going to pass he's not particularly difficult to stop. You want someone who is a deadly threat to score. You HOPE people double him so someone else will be open. Your slow pass first point guard who everyone knows is going to pass ain't getting doubled.

It may be premature to be worrying about this when the team has 11 wins, and I get that. It's hardly the only reason to draft a player. But you're just spouting nonsense at this point.

We can go at this until next yr, but it proves nothing. You say Rubio can't be the threat that Teague can, and I say prove it. Yes, I have been watching Martin, and I know about his ballhandling skills. But, in none of my 3 examples of how the Kings could score with a player like Rubio running the offense, did I suggest that someone needed to create his own shot or get free on his own. In fact, I stated that this is a team sport. And the best way to win, is with a team offense, and not a one on one player.

I admit it. I'm not certain that Rubio can be the man. There I said it. But, it's time for a change. What I am certain of is that making your final choice based on who might be best suited to score in the last seconds of a game, totally disregards how the other 47Mins & 40sec of the game were played. Also based on numbers from 82games.com the league wide aver. for game winning shots in the last 24 secs of a game for the 2003 to 2006 seasons was .292. So, the player with the ball at the end of the game, only made the shot 29% of the time, and that including the greatest stars in the NBA.

Heres the link:http://www.82games.com/random12.htm

I stand by my statement. I'd rather pick the player who can direct the offense and make the other players better. Instead, of the players who has the best chance to scorer during the last possession of the game 29% of the time.

 

[Prince_XY]

But.. I mean, look at this highlight reel: http://acbtv.acb.com/video/1247

First of all, the guys Rubio is playing against may be "men," but they are slow as hell men. It looks like it was shot in the NBA circa 1972.

It scares me more everytime I see the highlights again.

One of Rubio's teammate ( a tall guy ) who got the ball almost fell down in the process of passing the ball to Rubio - so weak.

The players are just terribly weak and slow it looks like a high school game.

I can't figure why people deny what is obvious in these highlights. Rubio is " deceivingly " fantastic because he is playing against probably the slowest and weakest Euro and supposedly " professional " players in these highlights.

Come on guys. Let us be very objective here. Better yet - just admit you have a crush on this kid if you cannot see the obvious on these highlights. J/K

 

[Oprostaj]

I give. Let's draft another shoot first combo guard with great college stats who can jump out of the gym. Maybe we'll get Steve Francis before he turned into Bonzi. The Euroleauge is a joke anyway, all those slow unathletic white people, the horror...

 

[nbrans]

I just don't buy stats comparisons like these. It doesn't take into account the variables.

The system that teams run, the competition they face. Is it easier to put up big numbers against the teams that don't have as much talent?

This is considered a weak draft class. Can you tell me that a player X would put up the same numbers against this lot than say against last year's lot?!

And you seem to harp on about Rubio not being an athletic freak of nature but aren't you just a little bit concerned by Teague's A/T ratio. Especially considering he is not their primary ball handler?!

Well, as I said previously I was only pointing out the stats because someone said Teague hadn't done anything to justify the hype and/or comparisons to Devin Harris. I'm not saying he's a sure thing to turn out as good as Harris (it's a best-case) or that the stats represent a one to one comparison. But considering the impact he has and his athleticism, comparisons are justified. Obviously the stats don't tell the whole story and I never intended them to. They just happen to be really good, particularly the shooting percentages, which are almost unprecedented when you factor in his volume of shooting and the fact that the college 3 point line moved back a couple of feet.

And yeah -- absolutely the biggest question mark about Teague is his assist to turnover ratio. I'm definitely concerned about it. It's not quite Gilbert Arenas-esque (his was negative in college), but it's worrisome. Even Teague's biggest supporters, if they're honest, would say that his transition to being a full time point guard is not a sure thing.

But here's why I and some others think he can do it: he's being woefully misused by Dino Gaudio. The background on Dino Gaudio is that his previous coaching jobs were at Army and Loyola Maryland. He was good friends with Skip Prosser and one of his assistants, was appointed head coach when Prosser died suddenly, and it's a feel-good story for the media. But I'm extremely unimpressed with his coaching.

Wake usually starts games with Teague as their point guard, but after about two minutes (why two minutes? Who knows) Gaudio usually brings in Ishmael Smith off the bench to run the point for half to two-thirds of the game. And Smith is LESS of a point guard than Teague. He basically either swings the ball or looks for his own shot. Teague plays off the ball and doesn't even touch the ball every possession. When he does get the ball often the shot clock is winding down and he has to make something happen. Wake's offense is basically: give Teague or Smith or James Johnson the ball and everyone else stands around and watches. By way of illustration: Wake scored 91 points against Duke and had 9 assists. 9 assists! On 91 points! It's insane.

Normally point guards get at least a couple of assists as a simple result of handling the ball so much, just passing to guys on the perimeter who hit shots or making entry passes. I mean, AJ Price from UConn averages 4.6 assists a game and he couldn't be less of a pure point guard. But because of Wake's unique "offense," not only does it result in fewer situations for Teague to pad his assist numbers, he's often driving into the teeth of the defense without even a screen, and it results in turnovers. In spite of all of this he still has the capacity to take over games with his scoring, provided Wake actually, you know, gets him the ball.

So yeah -- honestly I'm concerned about how Teague's game will translsate. It would be seriously unfortunate if he ended up like another Ben Gordon. But you see him swing the ball and make the right passes and make creative passes on the break, and you start to wonder what it would be like if he were handling the ball full time or if Wake's players moved properly without the ball. But for whatever reason Gaudio wants him playing off the ball, Wake's offense is what it is, and all you can do is wonder what if.

 

[gvucko]

I can't figure why people deny what is obvious in these highlights. Rubio is " deceivingly " fantastic because he is playing against probably the slowest and weakest Euro and supposedly " professional " players in these highlights.

Are you guys serious?!? Assessing the opposing players based on highlights? Sure, lets play this game.

I am sure you know this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFkfVQfLFO8

Let's make an assessment now, heck we have more than 6 min of highlights, more than enough to make a good, educated one, right?

Option one (we like the player staring):
* what amazing penetration skills. Can drive extremely well into traffic, resulting either in basket or drawn fouls.
* breaks his guards ankles all the time.
* superb passing skills.
* extremely fast hands in defense.

Option two (we dislike the player and argue the weak opponent makes the player "deceivingly" amazing):
* after all, that #4 player blocked is slow and can not jump, let alone finish below the rim,
* #9 extremely slow guard not able to contain a 70 old lady,
* that stupid #21 just gives fouls away all the time anyways,
* and anyways playing against no defense what so ever (this team is known for this)... my mother would fare better.

Please be serious. Yes, NBA is the ultimate challenge for any given player. No other league can really prepare you for it. But please. Do not think for a second that Eurolegue is what you see on that highlights clip (it is actualy a Spanish national legue but it is the strongest in Europe).

 

[gvucko]

gvucko was dumping on people for only looking at highlights and concluding Rubio can't play -- I'm just saying there's a lot more of that going the opposite direction, with plenty of people drooling over higlights without having taken the time to watch some of his games.

Actual I was referring to people who said that he looked amazing only due slow, no defense teams (players).

That is why I posted to examples: one suggesting that my countryman Beno is a freaking superstar.

You should have followed Ricky trough a couple of years to be hyped about him (as scouts are) because this year is really not a good year to assess him due his wrist injury.

Nonetheless, this year I had the opportunity to watch live his first Eurolegue game against my home town city Ljubljana (who by the way suck as hell this year, but this is not important, and no, there are 32 teams in the league, not 16. 16 is the second round).

He only played a couple of minutes that game but within 15 seconds of entering the game he did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqAoUHUNKrA..

This clip does not give the play enough credit but I stared and followed every move he made for those couple of minutes with my jaw wide open.

15 seconds... 15 seconds out of his injury. Come on!

 

[Hallama]

What I am certain of is that making your final choice based on who might be best suited to score in the last seconds of a game, totally disregards how the other 47Mins & 40sec of the game were played.

I know I'm taking this out of context, but my concern about Rubio isn't the last play of the game, it's the 4th quarter as a whole when teams tighten up on defense and you need a guy who can and will take tough shots, as well as make the right pass. I think Teague is a better 4th quarter type of player in the NBA over Rubio. Harden is better than both.

Maybe an old-school example would be the early JWill days where Adelman would take JWill out in the 4th and replace him with freakin' Vernon Maxwell and/or Jon Barry, who were very good 4th quarter players.

I'm willing to risk Rubio as a 1st or 2nd overall pick over Teague and Harden though. He may prove me wrong and that would be awesome.

 

[rainmaker]

I don't expect Rubio or any other 18 yr old to be able to take over an nba game in the 4th. But Rubio has been on the court at the end of some very close and competitive games, and contributed to a win. Rubio has developed as a player faster than any other european player by the age of 18, and we don't know how good he will be when he is 25.

Nowitzki/Parker/Gasol weren't ready to take over nba games when they were 18 or 19 yrs old, they weren't even ready to start for an nba team. They continued to develope, just like I think Rubio will continue to develope. But Rubio is agueably better at age 18 than any other european player was at his age.