Teague vs. Rubio

[Hallama]

But Rubio is agueably better at age 18 than any other european player was at his age.

Well, I think Sabonis takes the cake for that honor. But how much better do you really think Rubio is than Sergio Rodriguez? Sergio was pretty phenomenal at 18 as well. I think Rubio is better, just saying there isn't a HUGE difference.

Rubio's one really glaring weakness is creating and making his own perimeter shot, which really hurts a team in the 4th Q. Can he improve? Sure. I hope he does, especially if he becomes a King.

I'm on board with Rubio, the potential is immense, but there are holes in his game especially the NBA game.

 

[Gary]

Rubio can create for other players. That's what I would want him to do first and foremost. His offense will come along as he get older. He has natural BBall talent, and court vision. You cannot teach IQ...

 

[Dime Dropper]

Well, I think Sabonis takes the cake for that honor. But how much better do you really think Rubio is than Sergio Rodriguez? Sergio was pretty phenomenal at 18 as well. I think Rubio is better, just saying there isn't a HUGE difference.

Rubio's one really glaring weakness is creating and making his own perimeter shot, which really hurts a team in the 4th Q. Can he improve? Sure. I hope he does, especially if he becomes a King.

I'm on board with Rubio, the potential is immense, but there are holes in his game especially the NBA game.

What are you talking about? The gap between Rubio and Sergio is and was absolutely huge! Apart from there ability to make flashy passes, they aren't very similar (and Rubio is still a far superior passer).

I like Sergio and I think with PT he could be a good player, but he was never close to Rubios level.

 

[gvucko]

Well, I think Sabonis takes the cake for that honor.

I know this is not the time or the place for this debate but I respectfully dissagree. Drazen Petrovic takes the whole cake. But I do agree that Sabonis in next in line.

But Rubio... it is hard to say at this moment but... I really think that we are looking at Mozart here. Just hope that his game does translate to the next level.

In 10, 15 years time maybe I'll advocate that Rubio get's the cake.

As a European following basketball closely. Sergio was never as good as Rubio at the age of 18. IMAO he is not as good as Rubio even now.

just my 5 cents.

 

[Gary]

Kind of a dumb question where I don't have the answer, but I saw some questions asked about a team that won a championship w/o a scoring PG..

I pose this question.. How many teams have won the title where the PG is the leading scorer on the team? Or the second leading scorer? When was the last time this was done? Has it been done in the modern NBA game? Is Magic he last one?

I believe Billups was the 2nd scorer on the Pistons team, and Parker was 2nd on the Spurs but I don't remember a team that had won the championship where the PG was the leading scorer...

I actually don't know the answer to those questions so I am asking if anyone can post up the answers for me. Thanks!

EDIT: Wade is not technically a PG

 

[VF21]

This thread has been edited. Keep it about the topic at hand and you'll do fine. Keep it about posts and you'll do fine. Start making it about groups of people with whom you disagree or make it about race, creed, color, country of origin, etc. and it's not fine.

We have members of this forum from every continent of the world, with the exception of Antarctica. We're here to talk about the Kings primarily, with emphasis on the NBA because the Kings are an NBA team. We welcome discussions of other leagues in other countries, but the nationalistic claptrap is not going to fly any more now than it has in the past.

NOTE: I tried to keep the main points of discussion intact. Thanks all for understanding.

 

[nbrans]

I know this is not the time or the place for this debate but I respectfully dissagree. Drazen Petrovic takes the whole cake. But I do agree that Sabonis in next in line.

But Rubio... it is hard to say at this moment but... I really think that we are looking at Mozart here. Just hope that his game does translate to the next level.

In 10, 15 years time maybe I'll advocate that Rubio get's the cake.

As a European following basketball closely. Sergio was never as good as Rubio at the age of 18. IMAO he is not as good as Rubio even now.

just my 5 cents.

I'm really not very moved by the "prodigy" angle. Soooo many basketball prodigies have flamed out. For every Pete Maravich and Kobe Bryant, who were incredible from a really early age, there's 10 or 20 DeJuan Wagners and Sebastian Telfairs and Eddy Currys and Korleone Youngs.

Michael Jordan wasn't very good at age 15. Not even that great at age 18. I don't think you can look solely at how someone plays at age 18 and draw an upward line that doesn't stop.

Basketball ability peaks are largely determined by athletic ability and perfection of skills. Clearly Rubio is already a one of a kind passer on the order of the greats -- Nash, Paul, Kidd, Magic, etc. That kind of vision is incredibly rare. He's got it. I don't think there's any question about that.

But it's the rest of the game that will determine his peak. His athleticism, shooting, defense, etc. And the shooting (his abysmal form) and his athleticism (question mark) -- those will determine whether he plateaus or continues to peak. Because there's only so much that brilliant passing can do.

 

[nbrans]

Kind of a dumb question where I don't have the answer, but I saw some questions asked about a team that won a championship w/o a scoring PG..

I pose this question.. How many teams have won the title where the PG is the leading scorer on the team? Or the second leading scorer? When was the last time this was done? Has it been done in the modern NBA game? Is Magic he last one?

I believe Billups was the 2nd scorer on the Pistons team, and Parker was 2nd on the Spurs but I don't remember a team that had won the championship where the PG was the leading scorer...

I actually don't know the answer to those questions so I am asking if anyone can post up the answers for me. Thanks!

EDIT: Wade is not technically a PG

I don't think even the people who want more of a scoring point guard are envisioning someone who is going to come in and be the leading scorer. I personally don't want a Ben Gordon, but wouldn't mind a Chauncey Billups or Isiah.

But to answer your question: Chauncey averaged 0.7 ppg less than Richard Hamilton, and then you'd have to go back to Isiah and Magic as the last ppg leaders.

 

[Aenadin]

athlethicism vs IQ?

heres a very good example of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4

and may i remind you he was old and came from euro....

 

[Hallama]

I know this is not the time or the place for this debate but I respectfully dissagree. Drazen Petrovic takes the whole cake. But I do agree that Sabonis in next in line.

Ah yes, Drazen. Forgot about him. I wonder how good Kukoc, Divac, Sarunas, and Bodiroga were at a similar age?

I remember watching Petrovic warm-up before a Kings game (when he was with the Nets, not saddled to Adelman's Portland bench) and he never missed. Never. I was amazed.

 

[Hallama]

What are you talking about? The gap between Rubio and Sergio is and was absolutely huge! Apart from there ability to make flashy passes, they aren't very similar (and Rubio is still a far superior passer).

Sergio was a damn amazing passer when he was leading Spain in the U18 events. Could also hit a dagger from 3.

I agree Rubio is clearly a better player, but not "absolutely huge", imo. Just curious, have you watched a lot of their games? Because I'll admit I did watch most of Sergio's U18 run, but not Rubio's. What do you think makes their games so different?

 

[Dime Dropper]

Sergio was a damn amazing passer when he was leading Spain in the U18 events. Could also hit a dagger from 3.

I agree Rubio is clearly a better player, but not "absolutely huge", imo. Just curious, have you watched a lot of their games? Because I'll admit I did watch most of Sergio's U18 run, but not Rubio's. What do you think makes their games so different?

Yep, you are right that Sergio has eyes on the back of his head. Really creative passer and good vision. As I said, I think he can be good.

I was limited in what I saw of Sergio, but comparing what I saw from him and what I saw from Rubio, I think the gap is pretty significant. Rubio is a better defender, better passer, leader, intangibles etc. I don't really think there's a comparison, although that's not a knock on Rodriguez. I think he'd be an exciting player to have for the current team. With some playing time, he'd definitely bring some fans back to Arco.

I was probably a little hasty in saying there games are completely different. They are not awfully different, but I think Rubio offers alot more. He's already (arguably) the best PG in Europe - as an 18 year old.

 

[rainmaker]

I think there is a good possibility that Rubio's game might be better suited for the nba. Whether or not that translates to wins will have to be seen.

In the euroleague they slow the ball down much more on offense and don't run the pick and roll nearly as much as they do the the nba. In an nba game where his full court vision and playmaking ability he might flourish more than he has in europe. He could average 8+ assists as a rookie with more athletic wings playing with him than he has the chance to play with in spain.

Of course his jumper needs work, but I think his playmaking ability will actually be more impressive and more noticable over here.

 

[Kev.in]

With the way Rondo is playing (as an example), I'm not worried about the jumpshot if Rubio can take great care of the ball, keep all the scorers involved, defend, score when needed and lead a team. That's not a bad situation to have at point guard!

 

[nbrans]

With the way Rondo is playing (as an example), I'm not worried about the jumpshot if Rubio can take great care of the ball, keep all the scorers involved, defend, score when needed and lead a team. That's not a bad situation to have at point guard!

All we'll need is 3 hall of famers and we'll be set.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I don't think even the people who want more of a scoring point guard are envisioning someone who is going to come in and be the leading scorer. I personally don't want a Ben Gordon, but wouldn't mind a Chauncey Billups or Isiah.

But to answer your question: Chauncey averaged 0.7 ppg less than Richard Hamilton, and then you'd have to go back to Isiah and Magic as the last ppg leaders.

Chauncey and Rip are a good analogy for what we'd be shooting for with the current makeup of our squad. Rip/Kevin leading the team in scoring for 3 quarters of the game, but when everything bogs down, you need Chauncey/Teague to create the shot in the clutch.

 

[vikinginferno]

Chauncey and Rip are a good analogy for what we'd be shooting for with the current makeup of our squad. Rip/Kevin leading the team in scoring for 3 quarters of the game, but when everything bogs down, you need Chauncey/Teague to create the shot in the clutch.

Chauncey is a much better player than Teague can ever wish he can be. Chauncey isn't only a great shooter, defender, and finisher, but he is an amazing floor leader and brings poise.

 

[gvucko]

Ah yes, Drazen. Forgot about him. I wonder how good Kukoc, Divac, Sarunas, and Bodiroga were at a similar age?

I remember watching Petrovic warm-up before a Kings game (when he was with the Nets, not saddled to Adelman's Portland bench) and he never missed. Never. I was amazed.

I am not debating on euro players but this is related to Rubio, so I will post.

Rubios hype in comparison to mentioned above is greater, but maybe is that due the globalization, internet....

Kukoc is a legend in europe and was from the young age. Gary Payton played against him in young USA vs former Yugoslavija team back in the days. Latter on when he was asked about him he said... I do not remember much but a tall skinny guy burned us from 3 point land... Kukoc had in fact had 11 3 pointers that game (then full 6'11 but sub 200 pounds!).

Divac and Sarunas were thougt as a great tallent but never left a mark in Eurolegue at the young age.

Bodiroga was recognized by a hall of famer Kresimir Cosic at the age of 17 and taken to a smaller Italian club. Few years latter he emerged as a superstar.

Everyone of this guys had had the game of two for the books. But I do not recall a guy but Rubio at that age to have a series of games like that. In (I think 6 games) he had 3 triple doubles, 1 quadruple double, a shot from the center line for the overtime (and they won that one) with the numbers like: 51 points, 24 rebounds, 12 assists, 7 steals.

Yes, it was the EU16 championship (but still, played against the best euro players his age not some random club - to compare, I can not equate Drazens (at the age past 20) 112 points against (again my own home town) Olimpia junior basketball club to the Rickys number) but when comparing player at a certain age this feat is unprecedented.

But concerning Rubio... the attention he is getting is unparalleled to any of the guys above. The press is following his every move, the whole spanish nation, maybe even whole europe is looking upon him, expecting excellence day in and out. And the boy playing against men produces. And goes to school. Does not party all the time. Is a leader of his team (professional team) at the age of 18.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Chauncey is a much better player than Teague can ever wish he can be. Chauncey isn't only a great shooter, defender, and finisher, but he is an amazing floor leader and brings poise.

It took Chauncey five teams and six seasons to become that player, especially in regards to the leadership and poise. And those were the traits I was referring to mostly.

 

[Kev.in]

All we'll need is 3 hall of famers and we'll be set.

Lately they've been getting it done with 2.
Before they came together, the consensus on them was that only 1 was a lock as future HOF'er.
As a rookie Rondo put up a respectable ast:to ratio, was in the top 10 in steals and was a good defender, before KG and Ray Allen came over.
But he was a late first round pick, not an early lottery pick like Rubio could be. So the comparison is not "Rubio could be Rondo" but - look what a quality point guard can do for a team even if he isn't scoring 20ppg, or even in double figures, consistently.

 

[Oprostaj]

Lately they've been getting it done with 2.
Before they came together, the consensus on them was that only 1 was a lock as future HOF'er.
As a rookie Rondo put up a respectable ast:to ratio, was in the top 10 in steals and was a good defender, before KG and Ray Allen came over.
But he was a late first round pick, not an early lottery pick like Rubio could be. So the comparison is not "Rubio could be Rondo" but - look what a quality point guard can do for a team even if he isn't scoring 20ppg, or even in double figures, consistently.

Hold on... let me make Nbran's argument here..

[nbrans]But Rondo is much quicker than Rubio![/nbrans]



I kid, I kid... many people missed out on Rondo because he really is one of those players that bring intangibles to the table. He will never ever in a million years be a first, second, or even third option on a team. But put him somewhere where his duties are to get everybody invoved, and he shines.

I don't think Rubio will be anything close to Rondo, they are much different players. Rondo is being taught to always attack, always drive, always spread the floor for others and look to attack the basket. Rubio will have to have much more responsibilty with the ball, as I feel it will be in his hands much more, and defenses will focus on him more. It's not surprise that Rondo came out when defenses started having to focus on 3 other players that could kill them. I'm fairly certain many players would have inflated numbers if they played 1 v 1 more often. This is not a knock on Rondo, I just think he's more of a byproduct of the team, than the team is a byproduct of him, if that makes any sense... very good player in the right situation. mediocre one in ours. He lucked out.

 

[Sarunas]

Chauncey is a much better player than Teague can ever wish he can be. Chauncey isn't only a great shooter, defender, and finisher, but he is an amazing floor leader and brings poise.

Chauncey was a similar college player to teague, and as it was pointed out it took a looong time for chauncey to develop all of those skills. Obviously if we draft teague Im hoping it doesnt take him 6 seasons to put it all together because by then he would be on another team.

 

[upinsmoke]

This is ridiculous, LarryLegend. He's not Eric Gordon, he's not Gilbert Arenas, he's not Allen Iverson. Watch the games, or at least watch the videos I linked to. We can debate the degree to which he'll be a good passer and lead an NBA team, but he's not a pure 2, and he's certainly not a dime a dozen player.

Your on the money with that one my friend.

If we dont land the #1 pick or end up trading down teague would be the only way to go.