The Hammer
All-Star
Does anyone have insider and care to give us the scoop? I noticed they have Big Cuz on the lead photo for the story.
Synopsis of ESPN Summer Grades for Kings?
- Thread starter The Hammer
- Start date
They gave the Kings the second highest offseason grade, an A-. Basically, the loved the Cousins pick, even with the red flags. They also though the Dalembert move was a good one due to his strengths and the capseason flexibility it allows us this offseason.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I'm sorry but we don't deserve an A. Only one team deserves an A and we know who that is. I would say we are in the B range, we addressed our biggest weakness, yes, but we have to see if that benefits us this season or not, too early to tell now, we will see in couple of weeks!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Of course we deserve an A of some sort. Taking into account draft position, we had one of the better draft nights I can recall. And that was after making a very nice patch-the-hole move by getting Dalembert. Even getting Luther Head to come to camp on a non-guaranteed deal looks like a nice little score. Not perfect, but if you are going to use the Miami insanity as the only people who can get As, then no team is ever going to get an A again. We are a LOT stronger than we were only 5 months ago, adn we've accomplished it while retianing huge capspace for next summer.
SacKings7
Starter
Our moves aren't about this season, they're about the future, i.e. drafting Cousins and not using our cap space on an overrated player.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
True, but it's good to see this season what we have in each player, obviously we aren't going to see the whole package because there are two rookies and one vet.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
We should probably wait longer than just one season since it'll at least be a couple of years before Whiteside develops (or doesn't) and for our team to fully mature. It' generally foolish to grade a draft based on one year. Three years down the line, then we can all eat our birds.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
As you wish..
Telemachus
Starter
When giving out grades for the off-season (prior to the start of the season), you can only base it on what we think the moves will do to help the team. If you are going to do a wait-&-see, then why give any grades at all. There are no sure grades when giving them prior to the season (not even Miami). And based on what moves the Kings made and the results most think are likely to happen, I don't see how they can a grade lower than an A.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Hell, even if the wheels fall completely off the bus, we'd still get at least a C by virtue of getting rid of Nocioni.
The Hammer
All-Star
Well, you'll have to disagree with me then, too.
If you're giving a grade at this point, it is precisely based on speculation, so the logic that you give a B at all, due to not knowing how it will all pan out makes no sense.
I'd give us a straight A actually. I really don't see how we could have done better. I like the Pooh Jeter signing too.
We got our guy. We also got an incredible bonus in Whiteside, we got rid of what bad contracts we could. We got a great defensive goalie, we rid ourselves of yet more softness...for once I think ESPN got this one (close to) right.
Last edited:
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I have a right to give out a grade before the season if I choose to. Now, whether you all homer Kings fans don't agree with me, well I can't help you with that. I am giving them a B prior to the season just based on filling our needs. Overall grading consists of offseason activity.
Heuge
Starter
Even I am giving Petrie an A, and I think he has killed this franchise over the last few years. I'm really not sure what we could have done better short of relocating to a place with a nightlife and a beach and making Reeke become BFFs with Durant and Howard.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
You sir are entitled to your own opinion, I'm not going to give A's so easily though. That is why this is a message board and we can agree on things and disagree on more things.
Given what we had to start with (#5 and #33), I think we had the second-best offseason of any team in the NBA. Obviously the Heat came in at #1. But look at what we did.
At #5 we got the player who is expected to be the best center in the draft. In fact, he's almost certainly the best true center to come out since Brook Lopez in 2008, probably the best since Oden in 2007, and given Oden's injuries, might become the best center to come into the league since Dwight Howard in 2004. Yes, John Wall is going to be good, but there's still a good chance we got the #1 or #2 player in the draft.
At #33 we got a very tall, very long, athletic prospect big man, who was the best shotblocker in the nation last year. We've already seen his abilities in summer league, and on top of his weakside defensive help abilities, he has a sweet-looking jumper that should become very reliable out to 16-18 feet over time. Time and the weight room may turn him into a beast down low, too. He's a kid we considered at #5 (if Cousins was gone), and he dropped to us at #33. He's probably a few years away, but a kid with the defensive potential of a Marcus Camby with a better offensive game is a steal in the late lottery, much less in the second round.
And what else did we do? We traded the offensive potential (and defensive liability) of Spencer Hawes along with the disgruntled Andres Nocioni to the Sixers to get Samuel Dalembert, a defensive and rebounding linchpin, whose large contract is up at the end of the year.
Using the #5, the #33, a slowly developing player with offensive potential, and a throwaway contract, we've changed our frontline from one of the weakest and shallowest in the league to probably the deepest, and one which in a few years is likely to be one of the top handful in quality, if not the outright best. And we did this without spending huge cash. We're going to have massive cap room next offseason. Outside of the Heat, I simply don't see a team who outperformed expectations more than the Kings (though I welcome arguments if anybody thinks they can pinpoint one). And #2 out of 30 is definitely worth an A, on any grading curve I've ever seen.
At #5 we got the player who is expected to be the best center in the draft. In fact, he's almost certainly the best true center to come out since Brook Lopez in 2008, probably the best since Oden in 2007, and given Oden's injuries, might become the best center to come into the league since Dwight Howard in 2004. Yes, John Wall is going to be good, but there's still a good chance we got the #1 or #2 player in the draft.
At #33 we got a very tall, very long, athletic prospect big man, who was the best shotblocker in the nation last year. We've already seen his abilities in summer league, and on top of his weakside defensive help abilities, he has a sweet-looking jumper that should become very reliable out to 16-18 feet over time. Time and the weight room may turn him into a beast down low, too. He's a kid we considered at #5 (if Cousins was gone), and he dropped to us at #33. He's probably a few years away, but a kid with the defensive potential of a Marcus Camby with a better offensive game is a steal in the late lottery, much less in the second round.
And what else did we do? We traded the offensive potential (and defensive liability) of Spencer Hawes along with the disgruntled Andres Nocioni to the Sixers to get Samuel Dalembert, a defensive and rebounding linchpin, whose large contract is up at the end of the year.
Using the #5, the #33, a slowly developing player with offensive potential, and a throwaway contract, we've changed our frontline from one of the weakest and shallowest in the league to probably the deepest, and one which in a few years is likely to be one of the top handful in quality, if not the outright best. And we did this without spending huge cash. We're going to have massive cap room next offseason. Outside of the Heat, I simply don't see a team who outperformed expectations more than the Kings (though I welcome arguments if anybody thinks they can pinpoint one). And #2 out of 30 is definitely worth an A, on any grading curve I've ever seen.
The Hammer
All-Star
I'm both disagreeing with your grade, and I am disagreeing with your logic for giving the grade, that you can't really be sure until it plays out. But by no means am I saying you don't have a right to give a bad grade on faulty logic. Everyone has that right.
Now, back to disagreeing with your grade. If you think we got a B, why don't you tell us what you think an A would have been. And saying the Heat makes no sense cause as Brick said you'd give one A in you're entire lifetime.
Because to fill our biggest need better we maybe would have had to get Okafor, but then you're looking at locking in longterm salaray, and then you sacrafice flexibility next offseason, so I think Dalembert was the PERFECT pickup, and I think trading Hawes and Noc were the PERFECT peices. Any other way of filling that need really creates other problems.
Now to the draft. There is no way in tarnation we could have done better, on any planet, in any universe. Now again, name me a way it could have gone better. And I assume you mean trading for some picks... but who would you have traded? All our young guys have to much potential to trade at this point, and they're cheap. Perhaps you could say something like we could have packages Cisco, Hawes, Noc and JT for another top five pick, or a superstar, but we don't need a superstar right now, not with the salary obligations, and who would have traded a top five pick? Perhaps we could have wrangled away Minny's pick? But then who do we draft?
Realistically, I just don't see very many scenarios that could have been better for us this offseason.
Last edited:
K
Kingsguy881
Guest
I'll tell you the only fan of the NBA who agrees with you buddy. Laker fan. Go to any NBA website and posters there say pretty much the same thing as what ESPN said, the Kings are one of their top 3 things they want to see coming into next season due to their offseason moves, the first 2 usually being Miami's new team and the further development of OKC. Sorry bud, you are surrounded by purple and yellow on that island, and even some of their fans grudgingly give the Kings kudos for their offseason moves.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
So what exactly are you saying....that I'm a Lakers fan? Why? Just because I'm not giving the Kings an A everyone thinks i'm not a fan. typical.
Chupacabra
Starter
Booyah!
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I guess I can explain to you why I didn't give them an A. First off, and I'm repeating myself here, I gave them a B at the highest because we don't know how Cousins/Whiteside are going to work out, I don't expect much from Hassan til a couple of years anyways. As for DeMarcus, I want to see him do some impressive things his first year, 10/8 or so is not out of the question. Now, until he can prove that he is legit and can bang with the big boys and can keep himself in good condition, I will further await to see if I change my grade by the end of the season.
Regardless if Miami wins a title or not the first year, when you can join 3 all-stars on one team, that's an A period. Nocioni/Hawes trade, I loved it! I hated both players with passion and I was excited to see them go and Dalembert to come in. Samuel will give us rebounding/defense, how much that will help us in the W/L column we will have to wait.
Draft, I was fairly satisfied with it. We needed a big who has the potential to be a low post threat with other weapons. We drafted a shot blocker with great potential. I don't mind that we didn't get other draft picks, because let's face it, Petrie isn't known for doing any of that anyways.
In conclusion, the way I see it compared to the way you see it, is different. That's okay, you give an A and that's fine. I give a B and I'm getting hounded.
Without having seen the article, I'm a bit confused how Oklahoma City comes out with a better grade than we do. In the draft they got Cole Aldrich but they had to trade two later first round picks and take on Mo Pete's contract to move up. Peterson may find a role with that team and Aldrich will help their center depth this year, but overall I don't see that they got considerably better talent-wise from the team they had last year. Interior toughness/depth is still a weakness and they failed to significantly upgrade at the SG position. The only other major off-season development for them has been Durant and Westbrook excelling in Team USA play but that's a mixed-bag for me because they're going to come into next season hoping for an extended playoff run with more experience but also more mileage.
Thinking about which teams had good off-seasons, Miami is obviously number 1. Boston was very active but a lot of those moves are questionable/desperate (Shaq, Jermaine O Neal, Delonte West, Adam Morrison?!). I could see that going either way for them. They also picked up Avery Bradley in the draft which will have more of a long-term impact. Milwaukee is one team that's under the radar more or less that had a good off-season I think. Not great (because they overpaid) but they added depth where they needed to and re-signed Salmons. Chicago was certainly active but I wouldn't call Boozer/Korver/Watson a huge upgrade. It moves them into "solid playoff team" status though. New York picked up Stoudamire/Felton/Randolph which is a lot more talent than they've had in awhile but hardly world-beating. New Jersey picked up Favors but they struck out on all the big free agents so that's got to be seen as disappointing overall. And Washington got lucky with Wall, but the whole Gilbert Arenas situation remains unresolved both on the court (chemistry with Wall?) and off the court (bad PR, locker room maturity issues, ENORMOUS contract) so I wouldn't call that an A off-season.
So all in all, I think the combination of added talent and cap flexibility should place us right after Miami for off-season grades. Not many teams can find a way to completely rebuild their front-court depth in one off-season (one and a half if you want to lump in the Landry trade). But then to do so while also cutting costs and buying yourself more cap flexibility for next year? Unheard of!
EDIT: Forgot about Utah. If any team in the West deserves to be ranking above us, Utah may have a case. They lost Boozer to free agency but got Al Jefferson for nothing which is an upgrade in more ways than one because Jefferson is better (I think) and younger. I think they could have done better than Gordon Hayward in the draft (Paul Geaorge perhaps?) but they like to draft system guys over there so maybe it works out for them. Then they added Raja Bell who's typically been a solid playoff veteran. Al Jefferson and Deron Williams could be an elite inside-outside combo and if Hayward works out too then they're set for a long playoff run.
Thinking about which teams had good off-seasons, Miami is obviously number 1. Boston was very active but a lot of those moves are questionable/desperate (Shaq, Jermaine O Neal, Delonte West, Adam Morrison?!). I could see that going either way for them. They also picked up Avery Bradley in the draft which will have more of a long-term impact. Milwaukee is one team that's under the radar more or less that had a good off-season I think. Not great (because they overpaid) but they added depth where they needed to and re-signed Salmons. Chicago was certainly active but I wouldn't call Boozer/Korver/Watson a huge upgrade. It moves them into "solid playoff team" status though. New York picked up Stoudamire/Felton/Randolph which is a lot more talent than they've had in awhile but hardly world-beating. New Jersey picked up Favors but they struck out on all the big free agents so that's got to be seen as disappointing overall. And Washington got lucky with Wall, but the whole Gilbert Arenas situation remains unresolved both on the court (chemistry with Wall?) and off the court (bad PR, locker room maturity issues, ENORMOUS contract) so I wouldn't call that an A off-season.
So all in all, I think the combination of added talent and cap flexibility should place us right after Miami for off-season grades. Not many teams can find a way to completely rebuild their front-court depth in one off-season (one and a half if you want to lump in the Landry trade). But then to do so while also cutting costs and buying yourself more cap flexibility for next year? Unheard of!
EDIT: Forgot about Utah. If any team in the West deserves to be ranking above us, Utah may have a case. They lost Boozer to free agency but got Al Jefferson for nothing which is an upgrade in more ways than one because Jefferson is better (I think) and younger. I think they could have done better than Gordon Hayward in the draft (Paul Geaorge perhaps?) but they like to draft system guys over there so maybe it works out for them. Then they added Raja Bell who's typically been a solid playoff veteran. Al Jefferson and Deron Williams could be an elite inside-outside combo and if Hayward works out too then they're set for a long playoff run.
Last edited:
Um, the same can be said for EVERY team's draft/trades. Including the Heat. We don't know how that will work out, now do we? We can guess, but we don't know. So how can you give them an A?
The Hammer
All-Star
Exactly. kingsboi your logic got busted, just admit it.
I'm also a little shocked that while you loved the Dally trade (I did, too) you only thought our draft was OK????? Are you nuts? Our draft was insane! Whiteside at 33? Are you kidding me?
But we can agree on one thing. You are getting hounded for giving us a B. You are definitely getting hounded.
Fear the Putin
Starter
That's all fair and dandy.
But...if you're gonna base a grade on the terms of the unknown in terms of rookie production and how they will pan out since they haven't played a single game, then no team including the Wizards can be given a grade at all. If you have that approach, then there is no possible way of grading an ideal that simply doesn't exist.
If you are giving a B, that means there still exists the possibility of an A, yet your grading approach is to grade only on offseason acquisitions/deletions sans draft picks.
Also, what constitutes an A for you? Is the scale different for young rebuilding teams as opposed to teams contending for a chip?
You're not being hounded. You simply started calling people who don't agree with you "homer Kings fans" and only stated a reasoning on the second page of this thread after repeating numerous times that it's your "opinion".
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
That's fine with me, keep on hounding.
When did I say draft was OK? I said I was "fairly satisfied" which means pretty good atleast in my terms.
How can I give the Heat an A, when they haven't played? 3 All-stars on one team usually works out more often than not, so I'd say it's the safe bet.
kennadog
Dog On It!
I only looked at the grades for the West. I'll have to go back later and read the grades in the East. The Kings got an A-, falling just below OK who he gave a straight A.
As pointed out above, OK got the A basically because the nice, easy, quiet re-signing of Durant. OK is kind of the darlings of the analysts right now.
As pointed out above, OK got the A basically because the nice, easy, quiet re-signing of Durant. OK is kind of the darlings of the analysts right now.
kingsnation
All-Star
I don't think you're a Laker fan, I hate when a whole board "hounds" one member and I understand where you're coming from regarding your trades logic. However, how in the world can you be "fairly satisfied" with our draft?
Is it solely base upon the unknown potential? Based on the value we received at our picks, we robbed many other teams based solely on potential. DMC easily could've gone Top 3 and just might be THE best player of this draft. And Hassan at 33?! There was a point a while back when even he was a projected lottery pick.
Is this just about wanting more picks? Who would've you rather have us draft? John Wall? What, in other terms, would have made you "satisfied" with the draft as opposed to "fairly?"
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Well an A shouldn't be so easy to get, so I'm sticking with my guns.
Scale is def. different for rebuilding/contenders. Were rebuilding for a reason, they are contenders for a reason.
I call them "homer Kings fans" because they see A in drafting two rookies who never played, getting a shot blocker who is a one year rental.
Similar threads
- Sacramento Kings On SI
- Personnel moves
