Stupid but obligatory "Are we better without DMC?" thread

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

See? How hard was that to say?

 

[New Era]

See? How hard was that to say?

Same thing I've been saying for years, but thanks for helping me compose it in an easy to understand format.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I beg to differ; I'd argue that you've saying rather more than that, and actually kind of talking around it, but never actually saying it. Your mileage obviously varies, though.

 

[New Era]

I beg to differ; I'd argue that you've saying rather more than that, and actually kind of talking around it, but never actually saying it. Your mileage obviously varies, though.

That's not the only reason I want him traded, but it is a big part. Ultimately, this is entertainment for most of us. I haven't been entertained in the 7 years he's been here.

 

[Sam0ah]

Nope, Nope, Nope..... Much better team with Cousins!

 

[carmichaeldave]

I like the point that @carmichaeldave just made on the radio: people who don't like Cousins would have found a way to use this game as a jumping point to get their Cousins hot takes off, regardless of the outcome. Kings win, "OMGZ, we're better without Cousins!" If they had lost, "OMGZ, Cousins cost us a game with his whining!"

Now, of course, he immediately had to take it a step too far after that, with that "You're not a real fan" business, but the point is taken. I've got to take exception to that last part, though: miss me with that No True Scotsman Kings Fan nonsense, Dave. There are a lot of fans who annoy me with how they conduct themselves, but there is no such thing as a "right" way to be a fan

First off, thanks for listening. I know I always say that to people, but you have many options for your entertainment (or whatever you can call it) in the morning, I never take for granted someone taking the time to tune in. So thank you!

I'm glad you brought that up. I don't say stuff like that lightly. Its a very sensitive subject, and a very strong accusation when you call into question someone's "fandom". I guess the better turn of phrase would've been "to ME, you're not........."

Example:

1. bandwagon fan
2. person who wears split jerseys (i.e. Kings and Warriors from the other night)

There's a bunch of examples. Is it condescending for me to think that way? Yes. Am I the arbiter of who is and isn't a "true fan"? Absolutely not. I'm as full of crap (or more) than the next guy. But that's how I view them in my brain, and I express it and am honest.

I was not saying if you dislike DMC you aren't a true fan. If you think the game is more enjoyable. If you hate the bitching at the refs. Etc. I get it, I really do. And I also agree to a certain extent.

I interact on boards and social media as much as I possibly can. I think its vital to not be in the proverbial "ivory tower" and always remember my roots, which came from commenting on the old Bleachermob.com forums etc. I think the discourse on social media and message boards can be as good and sometimes better than anything you hear in "traditional media". That said, my timeline last night was garbage. I am seen (and rightfully so) as perhaps the most public defender of DMC. I get it. So when good/bad stuff happens, I get the crapstorm. Multiple, MULTIPLE people last night were telling me the team was better without him. I disagree, but whatever. But when multiple people tell me "FANS are over him, FANS think this way, NO ONE likes him", I hit the roof. Because one person does not speak for "fans", because "fans" are not one collective.

One phenomena I experience are the prairie dogs. The ones that only pop their heads out at opportune times. I never see them during the good DMC times, but lo and behold if he screws up, its the inevitable "SEE SEE SEE I TOLD YOU HE'S GARBAGE".

Now- If I recognize that you also pop your head out in the good times, and can see both bad and good, I'll respect you. But if you just pop up to hate on the guy when its convenient, I have no respect. TO ME.....you're not a Kings fan. You're a fan of being right. You put your ego ahead of what's best for the team, and any counter or proof against your agenda is a slap in the face, even if its best for the team. You're not a Kings fan, you're an agenda fan, and your opinions are biased. I can't respect that or take it seriously.

Example (and oh boy I'll try to be careful here): politics. There is so much inflammatory garbage out there, and for good reason involving our president. That's fine. I get it. But to some, he could literally cure cancer on PPV and simultaneously save a burning kitten from a car fire, and some would question his motives, talk about his hair, and god knows what else. Because they are so against, him, to admit he did ANYTHING right would be a blow to their ego. Those aren't patriots, those are egotists.

On the other hand, he could burn a kitten and throw it into a car fire on PPV, while simultaneously GIVING 1000000 people a terminal illness intravenously, and some would applaud him for being direct and showing everyone who's boss and making kitties great again. Those people aren't patriots, they are egotists. And I cannot respect their opinions.

I apologize for invoking politics, and I really tried to keep in as even-keeled as possible, but its the best example I could think of to illustrate my points. I am not the arbiter of patriotism either, but that's how I view things in my brain.

And to be sure, what I said about DMC applies to the ones in his camp too. I am a huge cheerleader of his, but I have called into question his attitude, decision making, and constant harping on the refs. I said on air the other day that I would sit down with him if I were Vlade BEFORE the extension and ask him what steps he would take to eliminate (or at least minimize) the issues, and if his response was "that's just me", I'd have him on the next plane out of town. I have asked him repeatedly to his face why he won't stop bitching at the refs, and have asked him if he realizes how much it costs his team. I think he appreciates honestly and being direct. My point being- If you are blind to EITHER the good or bad, same rules apply in my mind.

Slim, I respect your opinions enough to write this book, and I get how sensitive the "real fan" talk is. Whether you agree with me or not, I hope that expands and at least explains my thought process. I can't determine levels of fandom, its undeterminable. But in my brain, I have my own process. And I think that's ok.

Again, I appreciate you listening, even if its mainly for Kayte

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I generally agree with the sentiment of bandwagon/agenda/whatever fans, but I have to object to the notion that someone can designate themselves as the arbiter of "true" fandom. And, as a moderator on a message board, I tend to be very cognizant of the fact that such accusations quickly descend into the sort of flame wars that we try (with varying degrees of success) to avoid around here.

I agree one hundred percent about the fans who only show up whenever what's happening supports their narrative, and it's crickets otherwise, unless it's to go, "Yeah, but..." People who go full-Iraqi Information Minister the other way, in dismissal/denial about Cousins' flaws are also annoying, although I would vehemently oppose any suggestion that they are equally annoying.

But yeah, there does definitely appear to be some subsection of Kings Fans who comport themselves like they're bigger fans of being right than they are of the team; it is very hard not to give in to the temptation to ban them on principle.

Again, I appreciate you listening, even if its mainly for Kayte

What can I say? The listen-ability of the show increases by a few hundred fold, once football season is over.

 

[Spike]

2010-2011: Rookie season. Paul Westphal not exactly a great manager of personalities in the locker room. Still, team had a lot of momentum through the second half of the season and you could see glimmers of something coming together behind the Reke-Boogie tandem despite the complete fustercluck of a roster (the team had more bigs than this season's "too many bigs" roster and Landry and Dalembert combining to take a lot of Boogie's playing time AND a horrifying hole at SF wherein post-medicine-ball Cisco, Donte Greene, and pre-figuring out how to be an NBA player Omri vied for the starting spot). Team went 24-58 but you could sorta see them starting to go somewhere. Sure Boogie punched Donte Greene, but let's be fair, who didn't want to punch the man?

Best six players: Reke, Boogie, Marcus Thornton, Dalembert, Beno, Landry Not a fantastic bunch, seeing as how Boogie was still a rookie with questionable basketball habits and Reke struggled with the pressure of following up a historic rookie run, but one that you could see winning more games than they'd lose with a little more seasoning.

2011-2012: Ah, yes. The disaster year. This is the moment where the Kings Titanic runs into an iceberg. Over the offseason, the team inexplicably replaces its first solid shot blocker role-player big in half a decade with Chuck Hayes, who in return for his huge contract shows up with a heart condition, gets fat, and sorta just festers on the bench (where he rightfully belongs as a decent effort guy on a playoff team, which we weren't). Geoff Petrie also decides to pass up Kawhi and trade the pick and Beno (who was playing pretty well as our third guard) for a "solution" to our SF debacle, John Salmons, and is pressured by the Maloofs into picking Jimmer, who also immediate shows up and reveals a complete inability to dribble the ball past half court at the NBA level, thus completely crushing our once solid guard depth chart, at least until IT shows up and heroballs his way into the starting lineup. To cap it all off, Geoff decides to trade Omri and a first to Cleveland for JJ Hickson, who also decides to completely suck his way into us cutting him midway through the year. In other words, we got rid of all of our good role player vet-ish guys and a 1st for a bunch of sucky dudes who don't play in the NBA any more and IT.

Then, when the season starts, the team loses any and all momentum left over from the feel-good young guns run of the last season (though to be fair, most of that team's roster was now playing elsewhere) and fires Westphal, who at this point seemed more interested in getting in pissing matches with his locker room than with actually coaching. In his place, the Kings elevate Keith Smart, a friendly natured Nelly-disciple who promptly installed a smallball run-and-gun system completely antithetical to our roster of future All-NBA big men (Boogie and a completely ignored and lazy Hassan), penetrating, defending machine Tyreke Evans, and random old dudes just here for the pay check. To Smart's credit, his system did a good job of giving IT space to grow into an NBA player and I'm sure Marcus Thornton enjoyed jacking up 16 shots a game. Not exactly a winning team, though to be fair, Boogie did have a big role in getting Westphal fired but that firing was probably going to happen sooner or later regardless.

Best six players: Boogie, Reke, MT (rapidly devolving from pesky undersized scorer SG into lazy chucker), IT (before Brad Stevens taught him how to play defense), Jason Thompson, John Salmons. Uh yeah. Anytime Jason Thompson is one of your best players (a running theme as you'll see), your team probably isn't going to be winning too many games. Also that talent drop off between player number four on the list and player number five is horrifying. So yeah, eff Boogie.

2012-2013: In preparation for a Seattle move, the Maloofs starting saving money, scaring Petrie into passing on his favored Damian Lillard to pick Thomas Robinson because he was afraid of not having a power forward on the roster. Marcus Thornton's basketball devolution continues, allowing IT to leapfrog him into the starting lineup. Also Keith Smart was still the coach and John Salmons was still our starting small forward for some reason. T-Rob also completely flames out, allowing Jason Thompson to once more call himself a starting power forward.

To combat Keith Smart's system's aversion to defense Petrie picks up James Johnson who occasionally plays good defense but mostly just spends his time doing dumb things like a blind version of Lebron. Jimmer also still can't figure out how to dribble the ball.

Best six players: Boogie, Reke (now starting to show his propensity for injuries), IT, Jason Thompson, MT, John Salmons. The same six guys so, yay, stability! Unfortunately stability is only good when your roster doesn't feature a backup big man rotation of Chuck Hayes/Travis Outlaw/Thomas Robinson for most of the season. In a blatant attempt to salvage something of value from the T-Rob Hindenburg, Geoff trades him (and more!) to Houston for Patrick Patterson, who finally gives the Kings a power forward option whose main redeeming traits appears to be having the physical characteristics of an NBA big man. Between the out-of-his-depths coach and the complete and total lack of NBA talent, it's hard to put this losing season on Boogie, especially as the last half of the season was spent with most of the league checking out the latest Seattle restaurant recommendations.

2013-2014: A new regime and a new coach! And also a GM who decided to start things off by hemmoraging talent, jettisoning Reke in a clunky sign-and-trade in which we wound up with Robin Lopez, an ideal defensive fit for Mike Malone's system and alongside Boogie, and decided to trade him for Greivis Vasquez, a backup guy who can't play defense and came to the Kings and played the worst basketball of his career, instead. Good going Weasel! He also signs Carl Landry for some reason. Carl Landry then immediately gets hurt and misses most of the year.

The season starts with Malone still installing his system and learning how to be a head coach on the fly. He's also trying to teach defense to a squad that has spent the greater part of the last two seasons actively trying to find ways to let the other team score faster so they could get the ball back and jack up more shots. The front office genius also decide to trade the team's best defender Luc Mbah a Moute to Minnesota for a guy who would later go on to be called a Coke Machine to play small forward.

But hey D-Will actually plays better than expected and it looks like the team might have a not-sucky small forward! And then Pete miraculously pulls off a not-horrible trade, turning a struggling P-Pat, benched Greivis, Chuck Hayes, and the Stanky Fish for Rudy Gay, Quincy Acy, and Aaron Gray. Rudy gives the team a third player how actively doesn't suck and if you squint you can see the makings of some sort of a big three in Boogie, IT, and Rudy. They actually play .500 ball when all three guys are together, which unfortunately wasn't much due to random injuries. IT's heroballing tendencies become a little more pronounced but the team is starting to look like they can get something going if the front office can give Mike Malone a couple of more pieces to work with and stop farting around with guys like Royce White and Sim Bhullar. We also traded swirling pit of basketball despair Marcus Thornton for Reggie Evans, giving us our first legitimate gritty role playing big man since who knows when. Ben McLemore also shows flashes at time (also flashes of suckiness).

Best six players: Boogie, Rudy, IT, Ben Mclemore, Jason Thompson, Derrick Williams.

The Kings manage to make up for the horrific exchange of Reke for a turd sandwich by picking up our first good small forward since Ron Artest. Boogie and IT continue to develop. McLemore and D-Will are exciting, yet frustrating young pieces. Jason Thompson is still there but what the hell. There's room for improvement but the team appears to have finally started getting on the right track after the disastrous end of the Maloof regime. A new arena is coming! Things are coming up roses! Hooray!!!!

2014-2015: Unfortunately, the only thing the Kings love more than being bad at basketball is shooting themselves in the foot.

Not having learned from his last horrible offseason, the Weasel once again gets rid of one of his best assets in IT, this time managing to get even LESS in return than he did in the Reke move. Saving his ultimate bad decision for the actual season, Pete then precedes to accidentally give Mike Malone role players for his system, signing Darren Collison to replace IT, and picking up Omri on a minimum contract. He also signs Ramon Sessions but the less said about that the better.

Vivek also drafts Nik Stauskas, whose main highlight as a King can be primarily attributed to bad closed captioning.

You know the story. Mike Malone's system appears to be working. The Kings are playing defense and Boogie has made the leap and become a bonafide superstar. The starting five isn't just good, it's, according to the numbers, defensively one of the best in the league. The Kings are winning games despite having a horrible bench. Unfortunately Boogie gets a freak illness but the Kings appear to be weathering the storm.

Then disaster strikes. Hurricane Pete randomly decides to fire the first not-terrible coach his team has had in a decade and replace him with Ty Corbin, who he promptly tells to run like hell. The Kings do and the wheels come off the wagon. After playing brilliant defense to start out, the Kings revert to old habits and blow up.

In a desperate attempt to save things, Vivek hires George Karl, who in his defense appears to have only been coach in name only for most of his tenure, delegating a lot of his work to assistants.

There's no way we can really pin much blame on Boogie this season aside from maybe encouraging him to try to boost his immune system.

Best six: Boogie, Rudy, DC, Ben, Omri, Jason Thompson.
PDA accidentally brought in two good free agents in DC and Omri. Rudy is also locked into a new contract (that Pete tricked him into by saying Mike Malone would be here to stay). Boogie is also very good at basketball. Jason Thompson is still here but that may just be by virtue of the Kings having no bench for most of the season.

2015-2016: IT'S WAR!

George Karl decides to open the offseason by alienating Boogie, immediately forging an impenetrable wall between himself and the locker room. He also makes weird comments about some of his players through out the season, including claiming Seth Curry wasn't an NBA player (not sure why though, seeing as he has a dad and all).

Vlade is the GM now and has a busy offseason: doing the infamous Philly swap trade (ridding us of Jason Thompson once and for all), using that space to sign Rondo, Kosta, Marco Bellinelli, James Anderson, and Caron Butler, and drafting Willie. He also brings back Quincy Acy and signs the NBA's most famous sibling in Seth Curry.

All these moves somehow seem pedestrian in the face of the Weasel Regime and Kosta and Rondo have good seasons. Marco unfortunately does not. As the season winds down and there is more drama with Karl and the team, the team starts resting guys and still manages to pull off a 33 win season. Should have been more but the situation was completely toxic and while Boogie didn't help matters, let us not pretend that having notoriously hard to get along with George Karl and Rajon Rondo around really helped matters.

Best six: Boogie, Rudy, DC, Rondo, Kosta, Omri. Hey look! NBA players! And no Jason Thompson. Rondo spends most of the season cherrypicking his way into a great statline and putting up question efforts on defense but he was, regardless, one of the better players on the squad. Boogie also begins turning into a 7 foot tall version of James Harden. Kosta finally gives the team a good roleplaying big man.

2016-2017: New arena! New (non-sucky) coach! New (non-sucky but old) role players! Results still to be determined.

None of these are excuses. They're just the circumstances surrounding the franchise.

I feel like we just need to copy/paste this about 3 times a year. Maybe we could create a job for that? Probably not a mod - they seem like busy people. Seem like.

 

[Flopi]

Short answer :

Last 4 seasons (Vivek era) :
Without Boogie : 11 W - 42 L (20.75%)
With Boogie : 100 W - 146 L (40.65%)

Next question ?

 

[pshn80]

Our team play with Cuz has mproved over the last 10 games or so. In my view it has been Cuz who has changed the most. Last night's result didn't really surprise me because I believe the rest of the team has been there more than Cuz. Also last night's game didn't have to put up with the distraction of temper tantrums and running conversations with refs. Also Cuz effects the pace and ntensity of play more than he rest f the team, both for the better and for the worse.

All that being sad Cz is a special asset for this team and with his continued improvement this team really needs him.

 

[VF21]

Wow. Sorry I'm not reading all of that. I assume it's a rerun of histoty which I watched. Still excuses as far as I'm conserned. If he is that tallented then we should have won more.

Any credibility you may have ever had around here was probably lost with this comment. Tetsujin spent a lot of time on a very informative post, and you really should read it. But that's okay. don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

 

[VF21]

I feel like we just need to copy/paste this about 3 times a year. Maybe we could create a job for that? Probably not a mod - they seem like busy people. Seem like.

Set up some kind of reminder and I'll do it. I'm old and retired and just sitting at home anyway.

 

[Bricklayer]

As I do not need a radio audience I can freely express my dripping disdain for the anti-Cuzzes. I could do it very colorfully and in emasculating fashion (or the female equivalent), but its not necessary here.

What is necessary is to note that ANYONE pointing to last night's game as an example of why we are better without Cuz is being a dishonest twerp. Last night was the culmination of exactly the culture we have been building up with Cuz. We have fought all year long. We lead the entire league in close games. Our surge back into games we appear out of is so routine at this point I just count on it and refrain from haranguing the team until we kick it into gear.

This is the culture we have been building this year. We fight and we battle and we hang on. And DeMarcus Cousins has been right in the thick of that from the beginning. Last night was the first time in a long long time the team showed it would do that even without him. Its a very good thing. We are forming up a scrappy battling crew behind not only, you asshats, one of the greatest centers to ever play the bleeping game, but also one of most over the top competitors we have in the NBA. You can't form a culture like this with a Kevin Martin or Peja or whichever softy it is who's poster the anti-Cuzzes shed their gentle tears over.

 

[VF21]

First off, thanks for listening. I know I always say that to people, but you have many options for your entertainment (or whatever you can call it) in the morning, I never take for granted someone taking the time to tune in. So thank you!

I'm glad you brought that up. I don't say stuff like that lightly. Its a very sensitive subject, and a very strong accusation when you call into question someone's "fandom". I guess the better turn of phrase would've been "to ME, you're not........."

Example:

1. bandwagon fan
2. person who wears split jerseys (i.e. Kings and Warriors from the other night)

There's a bunch of examples. Is it condescending for me to think that way? Yes. Am I the arbiter of who is and isn't a "true fan"? Absolutely not. I'm as full of crap (or more) than the next guy. But that's how I view them in my brain, and I express it and am honest.

I was not saying if you dislike DMC you aren't a true fan. If you think the game is more enjoyable. If you hate the bitching at the refs. Etc. I get it, I really do. And I also agree to a certain extent.

I interact on boards and social media as much as I possibly can. I think its vital to not be in the proverbial "ivory tower" and always remember my roots, which came from commenting on the old Bleachermob.com forums etc. I think the discourse on social media and message boards can be as good and sometimes better than anything you hear in "traditional media". That said, my timeline last night was garbage. I am seen (and rightfully so) as perhaps the most public defender of DMC. I get it. So when good/bad stuff happens, I get the crapstorm. Multiple, MULTIPLE people last night were telling me the team was better without him. I disagree, but whatever. But when multiple people tell me "FANS are over him, FANS think this way, NO ONE likes him", I hit the roof. Because one person does not speak for "fans", because "fans" are not one collective.

One phenomena I experience are the prairie dogs. The ones that only pop their heads out at opportune times. I never see them during the good DMC times, but lo and behold if he screws up, its the inevitable "SEE SEE SEE I TOLD YOU HE'S GARBAGE".

Now- If I recognize that you also pop your head out in the good times, and can see both bad and good, I'll respect you. But if you just pop up to hate on the guy when its convenient, I have no respect. TO ME.....you're not a Kings fan. You're a fan of being right. You put your ego ahead of what's best for the team, and any counter or proof against your agenda is a slap in the face, even if its best for the team. You're not a Kings fan, you're an agenda fan, and your opinions are biased. I can't respect that or take it seriously.

Example (and oh boy I'll try to be careful here): politics. There is so much inflammatory garbage out there, and for good reason involving our president. That's fine. I get it. But to some, he could literally cure cancer on PPV and simultaneously save a burning kitten from a car fire, and some would question his motives, talk about his hair, and god knows what else. Because they are so against, him, to admit he did ANYTHING right would be a blow to their ego. Those aren't patriots, those are egotists.

On the other hand, he could burn a kitten and throw it into a car fire on PPV, while simultaneously GIVING 1000000 people a terminal illness intravenously, and some would applaud him for being direct and showing everyone who's boss and making kitties great again. Those people aren't patriots, they are egotists. And I cannot respect their opinions.

I apologize for invoking politics, and I really tried to keep in as even-keeled as possible, but its the best example I could think of to illustrate my points. I am not the arbiter of patriotism either, but that's how I view things in my brain.

And to be sure, what I said about DMC applies to the ones in his camp too. I am a huge cheerleader of his, but I have called into question his attitude, decision making, and constant harping on the refs. I said on air the other day that I would sit down with him if I were Vlade BEFORE the extension and ask him what steps he would take to eliminate (or at least minimize) the issues, and if his response was "that's just me", I'd have him on the next plane out of town. I have asked him repeatedly to his face why he won't stop bitching at the refs, and have asked him if he realizes how much it costs his team. I think he appreciates honestly and being direct. My point being- If you are blind to EITHER the good or bad, same rules apply in my mind.

Slim, I respect your opinions enough to write this book, and I get how sensitive the "real fan" talk is. Whether you agree with me or not, I hope that expands and at least explains my thought process. I can't determine levels of fandom, its undeterminable. But in my brain, I have my own process. And I think that's ok.

Again, I appreciate you listening, even if its mainly for Kayte

I pretty much agree with almost everything you said...and I want to thank you for taking the time to say it.

 

[Suicide King]

It's weird...they had 2 scenes and I must have clicked the reveresed one

Makes sense.

 

[Suicide King]

I don't like Player DeMarcus Cousins. I know he's good, but I just can't stand him, and I would enjoy rooting for the team more, if he weren't on it.

Thank you. I dont have to agree with you to give what your saying a like.

There are things I don't like about DMC also but I do like him a lot overall.

I appreciate and respect your honesty.

 

[Suicide King]

That's not the only reason I want him traded, but it is a big part. Ultimately, this is entertainment for most of us. I haven't been entertained in the 7 years he's been here.

On this point and speaking only for myself:

I am a huge fan of DMC. Don't think for a minute it is lost on me the potential that trading him this season for the 2 Nets picks and change ( both kinds) would bring. It is very tempting. It could be the better route in the long run. We just dont have the luxury or knowing the long term outcome of both scenarios.

I guess for me , with the path I've traveled thus far in life, it comes down to the ride-or-die mentality I have with people sometimes. And with Demarcus, I will ride-or-die.

 

[ppine]

The Kings play better old school share the ball style. Everyone knows they have to contribute. They don't pass to the post and wait. There is no complaining and working the officials for the most part. They are some advantages without him, but more disadvantages.

To be objective about it, trading Cousins should be considered but only if it means two or more players that can really help the team.

 

[bajaden]

First off, thanks for listening. I know I always say that to people, but you have many options for your entertainment (or whatever you can call it) in the morning, I never take for granted someone taking the time to tune in. So thank you!

I'm glad you brought that up. I don't say stuff like that lightly. Its a very sensitive subject, and a very strong accusation when you call into question someone's "fandom". I guess the better turn of phrase would've been "to ME, you're not........."

Example:

1. bandwagon fan
2. person who wears split jerseys (i.e. Kings and Warriors from the other night)

There's a bunch of examples. Is it condescending for me to think that way? Yes. Am I the arbiter of who is and isn't a "true fan"? Absolutely not. I'm as full of crap (or more) than the next guy. But that's how I view them in my brain, and I express it and am honest.

I was not saying if you dislike DMC you aren't a true fan. If you think the game is more enjoyable. If you hate the bitching at the refs. Etc. I get it, I really do. And I also agree to a certain extent.

I interact on boards and social media as much as I possibly can. I think its vital to not be in the proverbial "ivory tower" and always remember my roots, which came from commenting on the old Bleachermob.com forums etc. I think the discourse on social media and message boards can be as good and sometimes better than anything you hear in "traditional media". That said, my timeline last night was garbage. I am seen (and rightfully so) as perhaps the most public defender of DMC. I get it. So when good/bad stuff happens, I get the crapstorm. Multiple, MULTIPLE people last night were telling me the team was better without him. I disagree, but whatever. But when multiple people tell me "FANS are over him, FANS think this way, NO ONE likes him", I hit the roof. Because one person does not speak for "fans", because "fans" are not one collective.

One phenomena I experience are the prairie dogs. The ones that only pop their heads out at opportune times. I never see them during the good DMC times, but lo and behold if he screws up, its the inevitable "SEE SEE SEE I TOLD YOU HE'S GARBAGE".

Now- If I recognize that you also pop your head out in the good times, and can see both bad and good, I'll respect you. But if you just pop up to hate on the guy when its convenient, I have no respect. TO ME.....you're not a Kings fan. You're a fan of being right. You put your ego ahead of what's best for the team, and any counter or proof against your agenda is a slap in the face, even if its best for the team. You're not a Kings fan, you're an agenda fan, and your opinions are biased. I can't respect that or take it seriously.

Example (and oh boy I'll try to be careful here): politics. There is so much inflammatory garbage out there, and for good reason involving our president. That's fine. I get it. But to some, he could literally cure cancer on PPV and simultaneously save a burning kitten from a car fire, and some would question his motives, talk about his hair, and god knows what else. Because they are so against, him, to admit he did ANYTHING right would be a blow to their ego. Those aren't patriots, those are egotists.

On the other hand, he could burn a kitten and throw it into a car fire on PPV, while simultaneously GIVING 1000000 people a terminal illness intravenously, and some would applaud him for being direct and showing everyone who's boss and making kitties great again. Those people aren't patriots, they are egotists. And I cannot respect their opinions.

I apologize for invoking politics, and I really tried to keep in as even-keeled as possible, but its the best example I could think of to illustrate my points. I am not the arbiter of patriotism either, but that's how I view things in my brain.

And to be sure, what I said about DMC applies to the ones in his camp too. I am a huge cheerleader of his, but I have called into question his attitude, decision making, and constant harping on the refs. I said on air the other day that I would sit down with him if I were Vlade BEFORE the extension and ask him what steps he would take to eliminate (or at least minimize) the issues, and if his response was "that's just me", I'd have him on the next plane out of town. I have asked him repeatedly to his face why he won't stop bitching at the refs, and have asked him if he realizes how much it costs his team. I think he appreciates honestly and being direct. My point being- If you are blind to EITHER the good or bad, same rules apply in my mind.

Slim, I respect your opinions enough to write this book, and I get how sensitive the "real fan" talk is. Whether you agree with me or not, I hope that expands and at least explains my thought process. I can't determine levels of fandom, its undeterminable. But in my brain, I have my own process. And I think that's ok.

Again, I appreciate you listening, even if its mainly for Kayte

I find that people are going to lump you into whatever you said last, and forget what you may have said in the past. Of course, since I tend to write books as well, I'm sure some see the length of my post, and just skip it. The fact is that early on, even before we drafted Cousins I defended him. Mainly because I felt he was a huge talent, and because after a little investigation, I discovered that all the facts of many of the incidents weren't being reported. For instance, while at Kentucky a video was shown of Cousins, on his back, punching an opposing player who was on top of him in the face. What wasn't shown was just before that, the opposing player had intentionally elbowed Cousins in the neck.

I found that there was two sides to almost every story, and for some reason Cousins was getting the worse of it. At that time I was painted as a drinker of the Kool Aid where Cousins was concerned. More recently though, when I criticized Cousins for failing to get back on defense because he arguing with ref's, I was called a Cousins hater by one person and another took umbrage with me for being so critical of Cousins. Well, because I'm critical doesn't mean I hate Cousins, or want him traded. Everything isn't either/or. But that seems to be the world today. You have to pick one side or the other. Which is nonsense!!!

As far as the question, would we be better without him, I don't know how you answer an abstract question. The only fact in that question would be that Cousins is gone. How? Did we trade him, and for who or what? Are we better in the immediate, or in the long term? If the question is a simple, would we be better right now if Cousins dropped dead, or disappeared into thin air, and we got nothing in return for him, the answer is hell no! If the question is would we be better if we traded Cousins for Lebron and Durant, the answer is yes. Any questions?

 

[kingsboi]

I find that people are going to lump you into whatever you said last, and forget what you may have said in the past. Of course, since I tend to write books as well, I'm sure some see the length of my post, and just skip it. The fact is that early on, even before we drafted Cousins I defended him. Mainly because I felt he was a huge talent, and because after a little investigation, I discovered that all the facts of many of the incidents weren't being reported. For instance, while at Kentucky a video was shown of Cousins, on his back, punching an opposing player who was on top of him in the face. What wasn't shown was just before that, the opposing player had intentionally elbowed Cousins in the neck.

I found that there was two sides to almost every story, and for some reason Cousins was getting the worse of it. At that time I was painted as a drinker of the Kool Aid where Cousins was concerned. More recently though, when I criticized Cousins for failing to get back on defense because he arguing with ref's, I was called a Cousins hater by one person and another took umbrage with me for being so critical of Cousins. Well, because I'm critical doesn't mean I hate Cousins, or want him traded. Everything isn't either/or. But that seems to be the world today. You have to pick one side or the other. Which is nonsense!!!

As far as the question, would we be better without him, I don't know how you answer an abstract question. The only fact in that question would be that Cousins is gone. How? Did we trade him, and for who or what? Are we better in the immediate, or in the long term? If the question is a simple, would we be better right now if Cousins dropped dead, or disappeared into thin air, and we got nothing in return for him, the answer is hell no! If the question is would we be better if we traded Cousins for Lebron and Durant, the answer is yes. Any questions?

What about for KAT or Embiid?

 

[Siranthony]

This quote is pointless. First if we did not have Cousins we would have traded for other players. Also the team practices with Cousins daily. I would love to see a season without him so the team could gel with someone else.

This year there have been several times our bench looked better than the starters. That included last night. We have some better players now and a better coach.

In previous years, all we had was Cousins. I don't think that is the case any more.

Short answer :

Last 4 seasons (Vivek era) :
Without Boogie : 11 W - 42 L (20.75%)
With Boogie : 100 W - 146 L (40.65%)

Next question ?

 

[Siranthony]

Look I am very aware of everything that happened. No one has spend all that time spelling it out to me. He is obviously motivated to write all of that. But he will have to write a lot more excuses if Cousins is here another five years and the team is strapped to afford any other players.

Any credibility you may have ever had around here was probably lost with this comment. Tetsujin spent a lot of time on a very informative post, and you really should read it. But that's okay. don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

 

[kupman]

I am not anti-Cuzz, but I am anti losing. As long as he is the best player on a very losing team, he will be criticized. Honestly, his antics could not change at all and I would be far less critical of him if we won at least %50 of our games. I am also not going to play the "it's everyone else's fault," game. When he has the ball in his hands as much as he does and takes as many shots as he does, he will bear much of the responsibility for the wins and losses.

 

[Blob]

The Kings are 16-47 without Boogie. A one game sample does not erase that.

 

[ApolloDaGod]

Well... whats our record with him... compared to our record without him?

 

[IfAt1st]

At that time I was painted as a drinker of the Kool Aid where Cousins was concerned. More recently though, when I criticized Cousins for failing to get back on defense because he arguing with ref's, I was called a Cousins hater by one person and another took umbrage with me for being so critical of Cousins. Well, because I'm critical doesn't mean I hate Cousins, or want him traded. Everything isn't either/or. But that seems to be the world today. You have to pick one side or the other. Which is nonsense!!!

Such a good post.
I wish I could Like it twice.

To me it is absurd that posters who were the most vocal Cousins supporters for YEARS, are now being viewed/accused as Anti-Cousins simply because we point out where he is still making significant mistakes and we may be getting sick of his crapty attitude, entitled behavior which costs his team many points a game and makes it so he is suspended multiple games, etc etc etc.

The addiction that society has with false equivalency, and the inability to see any nuance in positions is maddening.
Everything is so superficial, "are they with me or against me?" nowadays.....

 

[ParniValjak]

Do those members of the "Get rid of Cousins" brigade EVER ask themselves what might be his trigger points for the behavior they cannot seem to stand?

I am in no way making excuses here. Cousins should be handling his the situations MUCH better and he has gotten better but not good enough in that aspect of his make up. We are all different and should not be judging someone because they do not behave like we would. It's small minded.

To those blinded by the hate for him, this will sound like yet another excuse but judge him on the symptoms, look at the cause and try to fix that and the symptoms will take care of themselves.

 

[kingsboi]

Do those members of the "Get rid of Cousins" brigade EVER ask themselves what might be his trigger points for the behavior they cannot seem to stand?

I am in no way making excuses here. Cousins should be handling his the situations MUCH better and he has gotten better but not good enough in that aspect of his make up. We are all different and should not be judging someone because they do not behave like we would. It's small minded.

To those blinded by the hate for him, this will sound like yet another excuse but judge him on the symptoms, look at the cause and try to fix that and the symptoms will take care of themselves.

with time comes maturity, with maturity comes accountability, with accountability comes awareness.

 

[Siranthony]

Do those members of the "Get rid of Cousins" brigade EVER ask themselves what might be his trigger points for the behavior they cannot seem to stand?

I am in no way making excuses here. Cousins should be handling his the situations MUCH better and he has gotten better but not good enough in that aspect of his make up. We are all different and should not be judging someone because they do not behave like we would. It's small minded.

To those blinded by the hate for him, this will sound like yet another excuse but judge him on the symptoms, look at the cause and try to fix that and the symptoms will take care of themselves.

Every year people say Cousins would be great if only we had x, y, and z. There is always some problem getting in the way (Cousins does not count as a problem). This year we are about as close as we ever will be. We have a great coach. We have some motivated players and some talented players. Yet the wins and losses trend exactly the same. We are disappointed time and again with the personality of this team. A team that almost never wins the games they are supposed to but give us hope by beating the top teams in the league. When they aren't taking other teams seriously enough, Cousins is having personality issues and getting techs. They almost never play for four quarters. This has been going on indefinitely. I'm tired of it. I have been tired of it for two and a half seasons. It is not going to change. This is who the Kings are with Cousins.

 

[Boogie_Fever]

I wouldn't trust this one...
It seems to indicate Kawhi is a much worse defender than Harden...

He's Absolutely not as good as him since Kawhi has to guard the best perimeter nightly BUT it at least shows that Harden isn't as bad as a defender as people claim he is. He's playing fantastic team defense this year.