Strategy for Game 2 (merged)

[VF21]

We also need to start fouling people. You know, actually touching them and causing them to either miss their shots or not be able to set to take them in the first place?

And it might be nice if we remembered the word TEAM.

Other than that, I think kingkung had some good tips.

Bottom line, however, is that if the team that showed up yesterday shows up Tuesday I won't have to worry about missing American Idol.

 

[SacTownKid]

TEAM DEFENSE. Simple, easy, and very doable.

 

[kingkung]

TEAM DEFENSE. Simple, easy, and very doable.

I have to disagree...

team defense against the SPURS... not simple or easy, and doable, but requiring tremendous intensity (one might even say "infinite intensity") and chemistry most likely beyond three months.

 

[DaMan]

Great discussion so far guys. Looking back at my own post and what everyone else has to say, there's quite a few of us who agree on putting Bibby on Bowen. In game 1, Popovich had Bowen guarding Bibby at times, so I feel we should respond and have Bibby guarding Bowen and Artest guarding Parker. Parker is the scorer and the passer for the Spurs, so shutting him down is most important going by Game 1. Parker may slow down if someone is very physicial with him whereas Ginobili doesn't care who's guarding him or if there's a brickwall in front of the basket. That's why I think it's better to try Artest on Parker.


Much like some others have stated, we could try using Martin as a starter and put Bonzi on the bench. I think our ball movement will be better to start off the game and our bench will be more effective with Bonzi there.

This would create the following match-ups defensively ..

Bibby on Bowen
Artest on Parker
Martin on Manu
KT/Shareef on Duncan
Miller on Mohammed

As I mentioned earlier, the Spurs bench has better shooters, but our bench (Garcia, Bonzi or Martin, Shareef) is more athletic. I hope Adelman can somehow use that to our advantage.

I totally agree with you and i also think when sar comes in the game i think we should feed him in the post and slow down the game. Therefore this would force the spurs to double down low (because he has shown that he could score on the spurs pretty easliy during the season) Then he could kick it out to artest, bibby, martin and however is open for the jumper.

 

[DaMan]

I have to disagree...

team defense against the SPURS... not simple or easy, and doable, but requiring tremendous intensity (one might even say "infinite intensity") and chemistry most likely beyond three months.

I really have to agree, the only team that could guard the spurs that effectively is the pistons.

 

[VF21]

I, too, would like to see a POST game developed considering we've been talking the past month about how nice it is to actually have a post game.

Unfortunately, that requires trust between players. You have to pass the ball away and trust that someone else will get the job done. The guy on the wing has to believe the guy in the post can and will get the basket.

We're seen glimmers of that trust so we know they can build on it. They have to believe it, however, and when you're down 20+ and already frustrated about the lack of team play, it's kinda hard to pass the ball away instead of just jacking it up yourself.

 

[kingkung]

Other than that, I think kingkung had some good tips.

Thank you, VF. My tips, which I posted before the series started, are what I gathered from both watching the Spurs on TV, and, believe it or not, playing them on the playstation. It's amazing; video games are so incredibly accurate with their player/team info now that simulating matchups on a PS2 actually gives you surprising insight about a team. It's obviously not perfect, but the game has the Spurs' advantages and tendencies down pat, and gives you a fundamental understanding of what will and will not work against them. And it's only going to get more and more lifelike. Yay, technology!

Maybe Adelman should pick up an X-Box.

 

[VF21]

I really have to agree, the only team that could guard the spurs that effectively is the pistons.

That's not completely true. It might be that the only team consistently able to guard the Spurs could be the Pistons but we don't know that. We have to force them out of their comfort zone - we have to play better defense and we have to maintain focus. We have to make sure Parker isn't able to stroll inside whenever he chooses. We have to keep their perimeter shooters from getting those wide open looks, even if it means pulling the double team off Duncan, which others have mentioned. We have to switch off and try different combinations. We need to take advantage of whatever mismatches pop up during the game. In other words, we cannot waste one single possession.

The Spurs can be beat. But it takes a concerted effort by every single member of the team and the coaching staff. Come in without that focus ... and you get spanked on national TV.

 

[kennadog]

I totally agree with you and i also think when sar comes in the game i think we should feed him in the post and slow down the game. Therefore this would force the spurs to double down low (because he has shown that he could score on the spurs pretty easliy during the season) Then he could kick it out to artest, bibby, martin and however is open for the jumper.

And if I were the Spurs that's what I'd do defensively. Make the Kings try to win on outside jumpers. Bibby can get hot (and occassionally Brad), but if I'm the Spurs, I'd let Artest and Martin, or whoever, throw up jumpers. Kings do not have reliable outside shooting. Pretty easy, if you only have to really worry about 1 outside shooter.

So the Spurs can pack the paint with guys that are just, for the most part, a lot taller than our players down there. And let's face it, Brad does not play 7'. He has no vertical and he doesn't look particularly log-limbed, either, to me.

Did it look to anyone, like Brad was passing up shots again yesterday? Maybe it had to do with whatever his fingers were taped for. I didn't hear what Grant and Jerry said happened to his fingers. Did anybody else?

EDIT: Accckkk, my post is too negative. I do think the Kings can play much better defense (offense, too) than what they displayed yesterday. But when you are not as talented and experienced, especially as a team, you will have to do it with major focus, intensity and hustle. And play smart.

 

[DaMan]

I, too, would like to see a POST game developed considering we've been talking the past month about how nice it is to actually have a post game.

Unfortunately, that requires trust between players. You have to pass the ball away and trust that someone else will get the job done. The guy on the wing has to believe the guy in the post can and will get the basket.

We're seen glimmers of that trust so we know they can build on it. They have to believe it, however, and when you're down 20+ and already frustrated about the lack of team play, it's kinda hard to pass the ball away instead of just jacking it up yourself.

I really do agree with u VF21, but we need to develop this trust now because if we don't we mgiht be out of the playoffs.

I should have not said we should only develop a post game with sar, but with artest and wells too because they all have showed that they have great postup games. To me we should slow down the game and run the first unit offensive throught artest in the post then with sar in the second unit.

 

[kennadog]

I really do agree with u VF21, but we need to develop this trust now because if we don't we mgiht be out of the playoffs.

Which is why it was unrealistic to expect us to go far in the playoffs. Unfortunately, trust takes time together. Being good takes a lot of practicing and playing together. We just have not had that time. If, there are no more major shake-ups, maybe we'll get a group that gets to have that time together. Every time you blow-up a team, you start from scratch, again.

 

[DaMan]

And if I were the Spurs that's what I'd do defensively. Make the Kings try to win on outside jumpers. Bibby can get hot (and occassionally Brad), but if I'm the Spurs, I'd let Artest and Martin, or whoever, throw up jumpers. Kings do not have reliable outside shooting. Pretty easy, if you only have to really worry about 1 outside shooter.

So the Spurs can pack the paint with guys that are just, for the most part, a lot taller than our players down there. And let's face it, Brad does not play 7'. He has no vertical and he doesn't look particularly log-limbed, either, to me.

Did it look to anyone, like Brad was passing up shots again yesterday? Maybe it had to do with whatever his fingers were taped for. I didn't hear what Grant and Jerry said happened to his fingers. Did anybody else?

EDIT: Accckkk, my post is too negative. I do think the Kings can play much better defense (offense, too) than what they displayed yesterday. But when you are not as talented and experienced, especially as a team, you will have to do it with major focus, intensity and hustle. And play smart.

In my opinion that is why we bench wells and start martin. With that we have Brad, Bibby and Martin who could shoot from the outside and post up Artest down low. And also i really don't think the kings will shoot like that again when open, they just need to take better shots.

 

[kennadog]

And also i really don't think the kings will shoot like that again when open, they just need to take better shots.

Well that's certainly part of what I'm hanging my hat on for now.

 

[DaMan]

Which is why it was unrealistic to expect us to go far in the playoffs. Unfortunately, trust takes time together. Being good takes a lot of practicing and playing together. We just have not had that time. If, there are no more major shake-ups, maybe we'll get a group that gets to have that time together. Every time you blow-up a team, you start from scratch, again.

I wished we had that team Unity we had a few weeks back right after the artest deal and won like 8 in row, if i remember right, to get into the playoffs.

 

[kennadog]

I wished we had that team Unity we had a few weeks back right after the artest deal and won like 8 in row, if i remember right, to get into the playoffs.

Part of that was the "honeymoon" effect, I'm sure. The kind of unity the Spurs have, the Pistons have, the old Kings had, does not happen that quickly. Real trust is developed by being tested and being proved solid. There is no subsitute for time and everyone doing what they are supposed to do to show they can be trusted.

 

[VF21]

In my opinion that is why we bench wells and start martin. With that we have Brad, Bibby and Martin who could shoot from the outside and post up Artest down low. And also i really don't think the kings will shoot like that again when open, they just need to take better shots.

What you're failing to realize is that Adelman is NOT going to start benching starters in the playoffs for players who have never faced the playoffs before. It is NOT going to happen. Should it? Probably not.

The starting lineup is a constant that generally brings at least a bit of continuity to a team. If you start messing with that on a game to game basis, guys honestly don't feel secure and don't have a definite idea of what their role is. It does more harm than good.

SAR might rather be a starter but he knows right now his role and what is expected of him coming off the bench. Kevin Martin isn't ready to be the starting 2-guard for the Sacramento Kings in the playoffs. He needs more experience, more time to learn that things are different in the post-season.

Just my three cents, but I've watched a lot of Kings basketball and I would be FLOORED if Adelman benched KT and Wells. The message it would send would destroy the team chemistry entirely IMHO at this point.

 

[DaMan]

What you're failing to realize is that Adelman is NOT going to start benching starters in the playoffs for players who have never faced the playoffs before. It is NOT going to happen. Should it? Probably not.

The starting lineup is a constant that generally brings at least a bit of continuity to a team. If you start messing with that on a game to game basis, guys honestly don't feel secure and don't have a definite idea of what their role is. It does more harm than good.

SAR might rather be a starter but he knows right now his role and what is expected of him coming off the bench. Kevin Martin isn't ready to be the starting 2-guard for the Sacramento Kings in the playoffs. He needs more experience, more time to learn that things are different in the post-season.

Just my three cents, but I've watched a lot of Kings basketball and I would be FLOORED if Adelman benched KT and Wells. The message it would send would destroy the team chemistry entirely IMHO at this point.

I know it might be out of the norm for rick and may cause more harm then good but if we get tossed around again, some changes need to be done to try to get a win as coach, thats RA job. Like he said if it ain't broke don't fix it, and this looks its broke so lets find a why to fix it.

 

[VF21]

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I'm simply trying to point out the myriad of reasons why it won't happen. I've watched the game of basketball for over 40 years. There are some things you do in video basketball that simply don't translate to real game situations.

If you take Kenny Thomas and Bonzi Wells out of the starting lineup without a damned good reason why, you are begging for MAJOR trouble on and off the court. And there is NO good reason to do it. Before you talk about making a change like that, you push your existing starters to play up to their potential or even their average. You do not smack them and send them to their rooms and expect them to be happy about it. It won't happen.

It's not who's in the starting positions that matters. It's that the entire team didn't play like a team.

Do you actually watch the games? I ask because I think if you had watched the games these past couple of months, you would be better able to understand what I'm talking about. We need TEAM focus not more divisions.

 

[King4Life]

Popovich benched Ginobili last year in the playoffs against the Nuggets. Ginobili still got a lot of playing time and it never hurt his ego. I think benching Bonzi for Martin would be ok in that respect. I know Bonzi doesn't got Ginobili's attitude, but I think he'd understand considering it's merely a strategy move as opposed to a way of saying that he's not good enough to be starter.

 

[RaY Z]

i say put sampson in for miller...

at least you'd get some rebounding and a shotblocker in the middle...

 

[kingkung]

If you take Kenny Thomas and Bonzi Wells out of the starting lineup without a damned good reason why, you are begging for MAJOR trouble on and off the court.

Are you talking about KT and Bonzi (players w/ attitude) specifically? I have no opinion on whether we should switch the starting lineup, but I do have an opinion on whether the starting lineup can be switched.

Maybe that is the way it is right now, but it really shouldn't be that way... it's very unfortunate that it's so. It's the role of the coach to have executive decision on the starting lineup, and it's the players' responsibilities, as professionals, to accept the coach's decision. Actors don't determine when a scene is finished, or what scenes are placed into a movie; directors do. That's not saying the coach should be a dictator, but the coach should feel comfortable switching the starting lineup at any time if he feels he is making the best decision for the team. I'm not condoning Larry Brown's "different starting lineup every game" method, but an occasional switch at an important time is an appropriate action for any coach.

I don't understand why it matters so much to the players whether they start or not. Particularly if one knows that he is an integral part of the team regardless. Bonzi and Kenny are absolutely needed on this team, so what does it matter whether they start playing at 00:00 or with 3:20 left in the 1st?

Again, I have no opinion whether they should be switched out, only that Adelman needs to feel comfortable switching them out if he has a solid reason for doing so. If not, then he doesn't have sufficient control of the team, end of story.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Popovich benched Ginobili last year in the playoffs against the Nuggets. Ginobili still got a lot of playing time and it never hurt his ego. I think benching Bonzi for Martin would be ok in that respect. I know Bonzi doesn't got Ginobili's attitude, but I think he'd understand considering it's merely a strategy move as opposed to a way of saying that he's not good enough to be starter.

Our bench simply isn't experienced enough in playoff situations to make that an option.

I don't remember the exact stat, but heading into yesterday's game, we had a total of 79 (I think) games' worth of playoff experience sitting on our bench. And of that 79 games, 63 of them belong to Corliss. The rest of our reserves are rookies, Kevin, Hart, and Reef.

 

[VF21]

Are you talking about KT and Bonzi (players w/ attitude) specifically? I have no opinion on whether we should switch the starting lineup, but I do have an opinion on whether the starting lineup can be switched.

I am indeed talking specifically about KT and Bonzi, since those are the players DaMan was talking about.

Popovich benched Ginobili last year in the playoffs against the Nuggets. Ginobili still got a lot of playing time and it never hurt his ego. I think benching Bonzi for Martin would be ok in that respect. I know Bonzi doesn't got Ginobili's attitude, but I think he'd understand considering it's merely a strategy move as opposed to a way of saying that he's not good enough to be starter.

You can think that but you would be WRONG, very wrong. Bonzi would have every reason on earth to be upset if, all of a sudden, Adelman started switching out VETERAN starters for playoff rookies.

We aren't the Spurs. What works for Pop might or might not work for Adelman but the playoffs is NOT the time to experiment.

This whole discussion is predicated on an error anyway, IMHO. I don't think replacing KT and Bonzi with SAR and Martin at the beginning of the game would do anything to improve our overall game. It wasn't Bonzi and KT that lost us the game. It was the way the whole bleeping team "played."

A couple of you seem to be looking for quick fixes, the one or two things you could do that would make everything different. It's not that simple and yet, in another way, it's very simple. The Kings have to play Kings ball. It's not about who starts as much as it's about the attitude of the entire team. You're looking at roster changes. I'm talking about an entire different mindset...

 

[Folsom Al]

Boy Scout Motto

Be Prepared

 

[VF21]

That's not saying the coach should be a dictator, but the coach should feel comfortable switching the starting lineup at any time if he feels he is making the best decision for the team.

I don't think Adelman would hesitate, IF he thought it was best for the team. That's the basic conceptual difference. Adelman doesn't do a lot of starter switching because he apparently doesn't think it's a good thing to do. I think that's a pretty clear indication of the value he places on it.

 

[kingkung]

Yeah, substituting the starting lineup doesn't seem to make too much sense now... but then maybe it would peeve KT and Bonzi enough to play with more intensity? I don't agree or disagree, really. I have no idea what would happen.

 

[VF21]

Oh I can tell you what would happen, with about a 99.99% level of confidence in my "prediction."

Kenny Thomas would be useless. He would be angry, he would show it in every way possible AND he would take every opportunity to say so in the direction of any/all microphones, quite possibly leading to a suspension.

The whole idea of switching Martin out for Bonzi just has no justification or basis in reality so I'm not going to paint a scenario but I would assume/expect him to react negatively also. He has earned his starting spot back. To take him out to put in a youngster who performed WORSE than he did in the debacle yesterday would be a massive insult.

 

[nebs]

At the start of the Kings current 8 straight playoff appearance run, very first game in 1999 vs the Jazz, the Kings lost by 30. They came back to nearly win that series.

Remember when Webber came out in the first minutes of game 2 after that 30 point loss and put a HARD pick/foul on Stockton? That set the tone for the rest of that series. I think we need something similar to get us going.

 

[VF21]

Attention Brad Miller:

Setting picks in the open court is not against the rules. Remember?




Uh-oh. I suppose that might appear as though I'm advocating hard play. Oh dear me...

 

[DaMan]

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I'm simply trying to point out the myriad of reasons why it won't happen. I've watched the game of basketball for over 40 years. There are some things you do in video basketball that simply don't translate to real game situations.

If you take Kenny Thomas and Bonzi Wells out of the starting lineup without a damned good reason why, you are begging for MAJOR trouble on and off the court. And there is NO good reason to do it. Before you talk about making a change like that, you push your existing starters to play up to their potential or even their average. You do not smack them and send them to their rooms and expect them to be happy about it. It won't happen.

It's not who's in the starting positions that matters. It's that the entire team didn't play like a team.

Do you actually watch the games? I ask because I think if you had watched the games these past couple of months, you would be better able to understand what I'm talking about. We need TEAM focus not more divisions.

VF21, i know must of these things won't happen that is what is so fun about a public fourm and espeaily a tread called "Strategy for Kings/Spurs Game 2", you can state an opinion.

For one thing i never once stated (after game 1) that to bench thomas in favor of sar because after game one i could see how weak our bench was and taking sar off the bench would make it even weaker and i told u that in another thread. And also starting sar would make our rebounding problem even worse. Just because i am sar fan and he is being benched doesn't mean i do not want whats in favor of the team.

But i was in favor in of benching Wells for Martin because puting Wells on the bench would would help bench production and help guard finely, like king4life said. And starting Martin would help spread the floor, which could really help if we decide to post artest down low and the spurs double. And am really hopeing that Martin could play well again, if he started again. So there are reason for my thinking.

And sometimes when teams are in desprate postions (which would happen if the kings lose game 2) things need to be done, so if benching wells (which is unlikey) is what should be done then so be it. I would just hope wells, just like sar, takes it like a man and do whats in favor of the team.

Yea, I have seen some kings games but its could of hard living all the way in the east coast. So i follow them on the radio(internet), national t.v., this forum and others, and espn, yahoo, and sportsline pbp.