shaka zulu
Bench
There is a diffrence between Superstars and Great ones.Tracy mcgrady is a superstar.But larry Bird was a GREAT ONE.The Freak said:
Stojakovic @b92.net
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
shaka zulu said:
You are aware that Larry hurt his back and missed a significant chunk of the latter half of his career with that injury, right?
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
rhuber said:
Word!
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
Bricklayer said:
Really? You sure he wasnt afraid of the pressure and competition too, like Webber?
Bricklayer said:
ahhhh... but psychologically speaking, back injuries are not the same as ankle injuries. You see, ankle injuries are foot related. We use our feet to run when frightened -- see the relationship? Back injuries on the other hand, being closer to the heart... and reserved for the "Great Ones".
Don’t believe me? Here’s proof!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
rhuber said:
Well as long as you posted that CREDIBLE link, I believe you.
VF,
While I agree this article is most likely slanted by the author to make a splash, after reading it, I wasn't that surprised. That is what I have a problem with here. Peja may not have said it, but if I read it in the Bee from him it really wouldn't surprise me. Coming into the season, I was more inclined to agree with Peja, or at least to be sympathetic to him. Webber came back and it appeared as though Peja suddenly lost his place in the offense. then Vlade departed in the offseason. So, when he requested a trade, I understood how he could be frustrated by what was occuring. I didn't necessarily agree with how he handled himself but I wasn't mad.
The way Peja has conducted himself this season though has been dissapointing to say the least. He used to be known as the guy who never stopped moving on offense and would wear down his defender and be all over the court. I remember the way he moved and he isn't moving like that this year. The guy is not putting his all into it, and that just simply is NOT professional. What makes this even more frustrating is that Chris Webber has suddenly apparently turned the corner and become a professional. Although he's still battling physical troubles the guy has been a leader and has simply brought 100% every time out. I always respected his talent but disliked Chris for his pinache for doing the unprofessional especially after his free agent year fiasco, and his pot shots at team mates after last season's playoffs.
Peja may not have said these things to a reporter, but he's said them loud and clear the way he has played this year. If he is going to pout through the year I'm all in favor of trading him. Cat suddenly makes him more expendable giving us a second deep threat to go with Mike, so if we can land another top flight SF ala Sean Marion ( probly no longer available ), Paul Pierce (not sure how the salaries would match up ), Carmello Anthony (maybe throw in Bobby and try to steal Nene too), Richard Jefferson, or maybe even throw Artest's name back into this mix ( we might be able to pry Bender away for free given Artests insanity).
Either way, I don't want a guy on the team who doesn't want to give his all for it, and Peja has not given it his all this year. Mitch was my favorote basketball player of all time and I firmly beleive one of the most underrated 2 guards of his era, BUT when he checked out on the team his final year I knew it was time to say good bye no matter how loyal and great he had been before. Peja is doing the same thing Mitch did his final year.
While I agree this article is most likely slanted by the author to make a splash, after reading it, I wasn't that surprised. That is what I have a problem with here. Peja may not have said it, but if I read it in the Bee from him it really wouldn't surprise me. Coming into the season, I was more inclined to agree with Peja, or at least to be sympathetic to him. Webber came back and it appeared as though Peja suddenly lost his place in the offense. then Vlade departed in the offseason. So, when he requested a trade, I understood how he could be frustrated by what was occuring. I didn't necessarily agree with how he handled himself but I wasn't mad.
The way Peja has conducted himself this season though has been dissapointing to say the least. He used to be known as the guy who never stopped moving on offense and would wear down his defender and be all over the court. I remember the way he moved and he isn't moving like that this year. The guy is not putting his all into it, and that just simply is NOT professional. What makes this even more frustrating is that Chris Webber has suddenly apparently turned the corner and become a professional. Although he's still battling physical troubles the guy has been a leader and has simply brought 100% every time out. I always respected his talent but disliked Chris for his pinache for doing the unprofessional especially after his free agent year fiasco, and his pot shots at team mates after last season's playoffs.
Peja may not have said these things to a reporter, but he's said them loud and clear the way he has played this year. If he is going to pout through the year I'm all in favor of trading him. Cat suddenly makes him more expendable giving us a second deep threat to go with Mike, so if we can land another top flight SF ala Sean Marion ( probly no longer available ), Paul Pierce (not sure how the salaries would match up ), Carmello Anthony (maybe throw in Bobby and try to steal Nene too), Richard Jefferson, or maybe even throw Artest's name back into this mix ( we might be able to pry Bender away for free given Artests insanity).
Either way, I don't want a guy on the team who doesn't want to give his all for it, and Peja has not given it his all this year. Mitch was my favorote basketball player of all time and I firmly beleive one of the most underrated 2 guards of his era, BUT when he checked out on the team his final year I knew it was time to say good bye no matter how loyal and great he had been before. Peja is doing the same thing Mitch did his final year.
ReinadelosReys
Starter
We know you are out there!
After they spent most of day talking about "ATM-gate"
, Grant's echo mentioned this article...and what a suprised quoted word for word the translation found on this site! Now, I don't know for sure, but I am going to guess that Mike Lam is not fluent in the Serbian language, but he sure could read that translation as if he wrote it himself....
After they spent most of day talking about "ATM-gate"
, Grant's echo mentioned this article...and what a suprised quoted word for word the translation found on this site! Now, I don't know for sure, but I am going to guess that Mike Lam is not fluent in the Serbian language, but he sure could read that translation as if he wrote it himself....
ReinadelosReys
Starter
They just did again! This time Koz! Will someone give these people some credit!
ovrush said:
This is truly troubling to me as a Kings fan.
Why? Because now it's apparently Pedja's turn to be the brunt of a lot of misplaced anger and hostility over some comments that were allegedly made and twisted out of all proportion.
I don't have a problem at all with Pedja's on the court performance. He isn't slacking, IMHO. There is NO basis for comparison between Pedja and Mitch.
You say you disliked Chris because of his potshots at teammates. Well, those "potshots" were pretty much spun way out of all context. Now, this year, Pedja has the target on his back all because some media types like to create controversy or problems.
I judge Pedja by his actions on the court and, as I said, I haven't seen any intentional decline in his play. If anything, he's become MUCH better defensively.
I'm sorry but I'm a Kings FAN and I find it deplorable that one of our players is being subjected to so many unwarranted attacks on his character.
If he chooses to go elsewhere in FA, I'll wish him well. If Petrie trades him, I'll wish him well. As long as he's wearing the uniform of the Sacramento Kings, I'll root for him. If you choose not to, that is - of course - your choice but to accuse him of pouting, etc. is just wrong IMHO.
Just my three cents...
I LOVE THIS TEAM! Every single one of them.
shaka zulu
Bench
he should have retired right then and there,He had already been the great one by then.Bricklayer said:
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
As an aside, I'm inclined to agree with Ovrush.
Peja has NOT brought his best this season. And the most likely explanation IS simply that he is not 100% dedicated to the team at this point. His comments have been consistent with his play.
Now the only question for me, and the only thing keeping me from an "he must go" attitude, is the question of whether its a conscious thing with him, or just a morose defeated attitude. I'm not buying the taking the off season off thing. We're halfway into the season now, and Peja is better than this. Or can be. In any case, if he has really quit on us, Ovrush is right, he's got to go. If its subconscious and he just truly doesn't believe in the team anymore...well that might be salvageable, but its not much better. Just at least doesn't involve intent and pouting. But still a serious chemistry issue that can infect the rest of the team.
I don't think defending the Kings means defending the players even if they are consciously letting the team down. In fact just the opposite. Peja has to make up his mind whether he's with us or not. And he has to quit sending stupid little hints and innuendo. If he wants out, man up and say it and we accomodate him and get somebody who's willing to bust his *** to make this happen for us. If not, then he has to buckle down and shake off the defeatism and bring his best every night. But half-assed is not going to do it. No way we can win a championship with our #2 guy with one mental foot out the door.
Peja has NOT brought his best this season. And the most likely explanation IS simply that he is not 100% dedicated to the team at this point. His comments have been consistent with his play.
Now the only question for me, and the only thing keeping me from an "he must go" attitude, is the question of whether its a conscious thing with him, or just a morose defeated attitude. I'm not buying the taking the off season off thing. We're halfway into the season now, and Peja is better than this. Or can be. In any case, if he has really quit on us, Ovrush is right, he's got to go. If its subconscious and he just truly doesn't believe in the team anymore...well that might be salvageable, but its not much better. Just at least doesn't involve intent and pouting. But still a serious chemistry issue that can infect the rest of the team.
I don't think defending the Kings means defending the players even if they are consciously letting the team down. In fact just the opposite. Peja has to make up his mind whether he's with us or not. And he has to quit sending stupid little hints and innuendo. If he wants out, man up and say it and we accomodate him and get somebody who's willing to bust his *** to make this happen for us. If not, then he has to buckle down and shake off the defeatism and bring his best every night. But half-assed is not going to do it. No way we can win a championship with our #2 guy with one mental foot out the door.
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Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
shaka zulu said:
If you love what you do, you dont quit.
Bricklayer -
You've made some valid points. In fact, the sub-conscious part I could somewhat agree with. I just don't think Pedja is capable of consciously letting his teammates down. And I think that's where I was attempting to defend him.
But the bottom line is that he does have to suck it up and play. Play as hard as he can. As you say:
Ovrush - I'm sorry if I read too much into your comments and over-reacted. I am just so heartily tired of all the soap opera stuff. It shouldn't be all drama all the time. You made some good observations. I'm sorry if I tended, on first glance, to dismiss them.
GO KINGS!!!
You've made some valid points. In fact, the sub-conscious part I could somewhat agree with. I just don't think Pedja is capable of consciously letting his teammates down. And I think that's where I was attempting to defend him.
But the bottom line is that he does have to suck it up and play. Play as hard as he can. As you say:
Bricklayer said:
Ovrush - I'm sorry if I read too much into your comments and over-reacted. I am just so heartily tired of all the soap opera stuff. It shouldn't be all drama all the time. You made some good observations. I'm sorry if I tended, on first glance, to dismiss them.
GO KINGS!!!
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
VF21 said:
Word. Look what all the drama did to the Lakers...
bozzwell
Starter
Bricklayer said:
If GP trades him this year and you're not immediately knocked off with how much Kings benefitted from the trade you will know for sure that Pedja was traded because he was not salvagable.
At least there is onw constant with the Kings that is a hundred percent lock everytime. If GP trades a player it's because he had to or because he was able to pick someone's pockets.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
bozzwell said:
The thing is the sorts of names that you could conceivably trade Peja for all have problems of their own -- Pierce (been accused of quitting himself in Boston); Artest (psycho); Carmelo (selfish and immature) etc. Any and all COULD work out great for us. Any and all could also be a huge problme and make things worse. The problem with even Petrie trading a guy like Peja is that there is such a limited group of players out ther who are clear upgrades, and even the dumbest GM knows who they are for the most part. Somehow I doubt Geoff can pull off a Peja for LeBron swap.
SacKings384
Starter
The thing I don't like about Peja... Is that he doesn't seem to have that fire... That, we must win... It's always "We saw what we did wrong, and we have to play better" Even when they asked him, will you be thinking about this loss when you go to San Antonio, he just said they will play better. I wanna hear "I'm so dissapointed, and I want to go back To San Antonio and blow them out on their home floor" Peja can't be traded though, with Artest off the market, not much we can get for him with that salary... And now that Doug is gone, he can't be packaged with a big salary...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
SacKings384 said:
Sure he can traded.
Peja for Artest works.
Peja/Bobby/Darius for Pierce works
Peja/Bobby/Darius for Anthony/Nene works
etc.
Just a question of whether moving him is wise or not.
SacKings384 said:
He may not have the fire. If anything, the NBA may be more of a job to him and less a driving force. For him the World Championships and representing his country might well be the thing that lights his fire. If so, he's not going to change no matter where he goes.
SacKings384
Starter
Bricklayer said:
Well obviously he can be traded. But trading him for Artest would basically ruin our season. Trading Peja Bobby and Darius is too much for pierce... And I am not an Anthony fan... I don't think any trade would be in the best interest of the Kings... But who knows... Maybe GP can work some magic...
VF-
No problem, I understand where you are coming from. I get very annoyed with the trade threads as well. I think Brick summarized my point well.
If Peja is committed to the team and wants to win then he's one of my favorite players and I wouldnt trade him for anyone. I just don't see him playing to his potential right now and it really bothers me.
I agree with Brick though that any trade of Peja is risky. Especially since Peja is not necessarily doing his best to up his trade value right now. If he goes somewhere else and suddenly regains his fire and starts playing like the MVP he was last year (which is probly a decent bet) then GP looks bad. Additionally, it's very difficult to trade talent for talent mid-season. Normally big mid season trades are for players whose contracts are expiring or salary dumps where one team gets better and the other team loses salary. I can't remember many mid season trades where two guys without expiring contracts that were top level talents were traded. The Mobley-Christie deal is about as close as it comes.
No problem, I understand where you are coming from. I get very annoyed with the trade threads as well. I think Brick summarized my point well.
If Peja is committed to the team and wants to win then he's one of my favorite players and I wouldnt trade him for anyone. I just don't see him playing to his potential right now and it really bothers me.
I agree with Brick though that any trade of Peja is risky. Especially since Peja is not necessarily doing his best to up his trade value right now. If he goes somewhere else and suddenly regains his fire and starts playing like the MVP he was last year (which is probly a decent bet) then GP looks bad. Additionally, it's very difficult to trade talent for talent mid-season. Normally big mid season trades are for players whose contracts are expiring or salary dumps where one team gets better and the other team loses salary. I can't remember many mid season trades where two guys without expiring contracts that were top level talents were traded. The Mobley-Christie deal is about as close as it comes.
Stojakovic
Bench
I just read this whole thread, and man ... what comedy !
Thanks shaka !
Thanks shaka !
GoGoGadget
All-Star
bdouble013 said:
I wasn't aware that shaka had enough credibility to create a "whooooosh."
I'd think it would sound more like the sputtering "fffft" you get at the end of a can of Reddi-Whip.
Stojakovic
Bench
VF21 said:
I thought about posting a seperate thread for this a few weeks back, but I ended up not posting at all. Vladimir Radmanovic was recently interviewed and asked something along the lines of "how nice would it be to get the NBA ring this year with Seattle" , and he responded with "forget the ring...nothing would make me happier than winning the European Championships with the national team this year."
I wonder what the Sonics response would be if they found out he actually said that. That's pretty unprofessional, but a lot of players coming over from Europe have that mentality.
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