So what is the problem with the Kings this year?

[nickmcclure]

Brilliant! Why didn't I think of that?

Lol, it was either that or "bad coach"

 

[bajaden]

I’d say it’s more likely that 12 players are just choking and making the coach look bad than it is that the coach is making 12 players choke, yes.

First off, I never said they should get rid of every player or that Westphal was fine. No need for strawman arguments here. I see the common denominator, I just don’t agree that blame for it rests solely with the coach.



How come after Shaq left, Phil Jackson couldn’t get out of the first round until they added Gasol to the roster? It couldn’t have been Gasol could it? Works both ways.

Obviously you have to have the players to win a championship. I'm not denying that. My point is that a very good head coach was able to make a difference. Its a subjective argument that neither of us can prove one way or the other. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Good discussion though.

 

[mac]

Obviously you have to have the players to win a championship. I'm not denying that. My point is that a very good head coach was able to make a difference. Its a subjective argument that neither of us can prove one way or the other. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Good discussion though.

I would say it falls on both the players and the coach. The coach is responsible for what is drawn up, for ensuring that everyone is on the same page and gets it, for managing player's minutes to achieve consistency and chemistry while taking advantage of matchups where possible. Landry ISO jumpshot from 18ft? Not going to win a championship any time soon. And who orders or allows these plays to happen? The coach. Who's responsible for guiding the young guys, pointing out and telling them how to correct their mistakes? The coach.

But then, it also falls on the players, but to a lesser extent because frankly our guys are either young or just not very good basketball players (by NBA standards). If we had a true veteran leader (For crying out loud Ime Udoka, Francisco Garcia???) he would direct guys and make up for where the coach lacks. Phil Jackson can afford to play the second last pick in the draft significant minutes, because the other 4 guys on the court will ensure that Caracter knows what he has to do.

Going back to the players - ultimately it's on them to hit shots. It's not Westphal's fault that Beno is bricking wide open 3s, nor is it his fault that an NBA team is 4th last in the league in FT shooting. Regardless of whether the coach is calling you out for it, as a player you should know that you're supposed to be moving without the ball. You should learn to set better screens. You should know that when you're 6'11 it's unlikely that you're going to steal the ball from the opponent's PG in the backcourt. You should stay focused throughout the entire game.

So ultimately it's the fault of the whole team. There's poor planning/preparation (coach) and there's poor execution for 48 minutes (players). Thing is, which is easier to change at this point? You could try to get a trade to get a different mix of players, but you may just end up with Jason Thompson shooting ISO 18ft contested jumpshots instead of Carl Landry.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

How come after Shaq left, Phil Jackson couldn’t get out of the first round until they added Gasol to the roster? It couldn’t have been Gasol could it? Works both ways.

But here's where coaching matters. Look at the team LA had. Their starting lineup was Smush Parker, Kobe, Luke Walton, Odom and Kwame Brown. They were bringing Chris Mihm, Devean George, Sasha Vujavic and Brian Cook off the bench. They had Bynum, but he was very mediocre and only played 338 minutes all season (I bring this up before someone else mentions him like he was a + for them).

Coaching that team to 45 wins and nearly upsetting the Suns in a 5 game series was a major coaching accomplishment. Could not have been done without Kobe in his prime, but we also are not expecting this year's Kings to win 45 games. Phil Jackson's coaching made a major difference there. A mediocre coach would not have coaxed 45 wins and a 5 game series with the Suns out of that team.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

To answer the initial question, three things:

1 - Tyreke's injury
2 - Youth (4 of our 5 starters are 20, 21, 22, 23)
3 - Coaching - I'm finding it harder to defend Westphal. He deserves to finish off the year, but if the season ended today, I would advocate for a new coach.

 

[SacTownKid]

To answer the initial question, three things:

1 - Tyreke's injury
2 - Youth (4 of our 5 starters are 20, 21, 22, 23)
3 - Coaching - I'm finding it harder to defend Westphal. He deserves to finish off the year, but if the season ended today, I would advocate for a new coach.

The only question I have is do we deserve to have to sit through it?

 

[Sptsjunkie]

The only question I have is do we deserve to have to sit through it?

Ha, depends, who know what kind of depraved things you have done outside of this message board. Personally, I'm probably paying for being an arrogant Lakers fan in a past life.

 

[jcassio]

To answer the initial question, three things:

1 - Tyreke's injury
2 - Youth (4 of our 5 starters are 20, 21, 22, 23)
3 - Coaching - I'm finding it harder to defend Westphal. He deserves to finish off the year, but if the season ended today, I would advocate for a new coach.

Your 3 are pretty much the same as mine, although I might add that the youth problem (in our case) is part youth and part BBIQ. We just seem to have a bunch of guys who are talented, but slow learners who keep repeating the same mistakes. I wonder if there's a single player on the Kings who reads anything more than text messages?

 

[Gary]

I wouldn't go as far as saying Evans is "injured". Didn't the paper pretty much say it's the mildest case and he should have no problems playing on it?

 

[jcassio]

I wouldn't go as far as saying Evans is "injured". Didn't the paper pretty much say it's the mildest case and he should have no problems playing on it?

It's somewhere between "injured" and "no problem playing on it."

I'm sure he's been told to let pain be his guide: if/when it gets too painful, don't play.
And probably not because he could make the plantar fascia worse, but because playing in severe pain tends to cause other injuries.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Your 3 are pretty much the same as mine, although I might add that the youth problem (in our case) is part youth and part BBIQ. We just seem to have a bunch of guys who are talented, but slow learners who keep repeating the same mistakes. I wonder if there's a single player on the Kings who reads anything more than text messages?

Partially agree. Think mostly youth. I think we have some smart players on the team. But part of youth is these mistakes and poor D, not just man D which most people think of, but even more is TEAM D. Our core is insanely young, it will come, although probably with a different coach.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

When basically every single major player on the team has taken a step back/is disappointing you have to look outside the personnel for your biggest culprits. The coaches are a good place to start, sometimes its chemsitry, but whatever it is its universal to everybody, not a player by player thing. Only gets more obvious when you consider our youth -- young players naturally improve just from learning, so not only should we not be stagnating, we should just naturally be getting better by doing nothing but maturing. None of that is going on. So, like I say look for the universal factors that touch everybody and you are will probably find your problems.

Brick, I have been agreeing with you way too much recently. Either that means I'm getting smarter, you're getting dumber, or the apocolypse is coming soon.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

1. Lack of players who can play both ends, resulting in sacrificing either defense or offense. Our offensive lineups give up easy fast break points and points in the paint. Our defensive ones give us about 3 FGs in a quarter.

Hey Mac, have a lot of respect for your opinions, but I disagree with this. The assumption here is that players are either one or the other and that it is that defining quality that makes a defense. Yes, having all invidually great definsive players helps, but D is much more about team D than just individual. Our best team in 2002 was one of the top defensive teams in the league, but Christie was the only player who was an above average individual defender at his position. Adelman's underrated coaching helped us find a great team D.

Look at the top defensive teams this year (by defensive efficiency):

Boston - great individual defenders
Miami - Ugh, a little bit of both, let's just say great
Chicago - Team D - Noah, Brewer and Deng are the only +s, Rose, Korver, Boozer, Gibson are all average at best
Orlando - Team D - Yes, Howard anchos the D, but Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Redick are AWFUL, Pietrus is solid
New Orleans - Team D - Okafor and Ariza is a big +s; Paul, Bellineli, West
Dallas - Team D - Chandler is more elite than he gets credit for, especially for man D; everyone else is mediocre, but they play great together


Keep going down the list and there is more Team D than 5 great individuals. You normally do need 1 or 2 good to great defenders, but at the end of the day, it is coaching. Coaches teach teams to play great team D. It may not be completley fair to blame Westphal considering our youth, but at the end of the day, it is our Team D, not our individual D, that is hurting us. It's not as if our offensive weapons are all slow and ineffective individuals (i.e. Korver & Trajon Langdon).