So, is Marvin living up to expectations? (split)

How is Bagley comparing to your expectations?


  • Total voters
    95
  • Poll closed .
#91
Why am I seeing lots of people say that Bagley needs to play C? He's done a fine job at PF so far. He's not much of a floor spacer at the moment, but he is going to develop his 3pt shot over time. He's got the bounce and athleticism to play PF.

I say all of this because I think him and WCS could make a very good front court duo for the future if they both keep up this pace and improvement.
Defensively it seems like he's done a better job when he's able to go after shots in the paint and he doesn't stretch the floor on offense very much at the moment. Giles doesn't seem to be as strong and seems way undersized at the 5 but his outside shot looked better in SL and preaseason. When they're on the floor together I think their positions should be switched but if Bagley is playing with WCS then he should be at the 4 because WCS is obviously a 5.
 
#92
Why am I seeing lots of people say that Bagley needs to play C? He's done a fine job at PF so far. He's not much of a floor spacer at the moment, but he is going to develop his 3pt shot over time. He's got the bounce and athleticism to play PF.

I say all of this because I think him and WCS could make a very good front court duo for the future if they both keep up this pace and improvement.
I’m sold on WCS being a core piece for this team going forward. Giles isn’t ready yet.
 
#93
By the way, if anyone wants to compare Bagley and Doncic, I looked up their per 36 numbers, which is the only fair way to do it since Doncic is averaging around 33 minutes a game.

Doncic: 19.0 ppg - 15.9 attempts per game - 43.5% fgp - 31.8% 3pp - 5.9 rpg - 4.5 apg - 4.5 tov's - 1.0 spg - 0.3 bpg - Ortg 97 - Drtg 123

Bagley: 20.7 ppg - 14.3 attempts per game - 60.0% fgp - 25.0% 3pp - 10.3 rpg - 2.3 apg - 3.2 tov's - 1.8 spg - 2.1 bpg - Ortg 113 - Drtg 117

Only four games, so a bit early to draw conclusions. But obviously, Bagley has the edge so far.
It's pretty obvious Bagley is going to have better stats then Doncic.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
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And a better impact. But Doncic is flashy and I think that's what people wanted.
i doubt anybody wanted flash at the expense of substance and impact for the Kings. my assesement is that your assesement of why people want(ed) Doncic is wrong :)
We have a thread (or two) for discussion of Luka - this isn't it. :p
 
Bagley has been basically everything I expeted him to be. His amount of blocks has been a positive surprise but on other aspects just what I thought. Very high energy, playing close to the rim, great athletisism, good rebounder, good finsisher around the hoop, passable 1-1 defender, not (yet) a good team defender, best suited at center on a heavy switching defense and spread offense, not spreading the floor (yet), one of the most one handed players in the league atm.

To me it was never a doubt that Bagley will average something like 18/10 if he gets enough minutes. It was allways about a)previous very heavy investments on big man position b)value of his skill set compared to another prospects and c) historical data that suggest that offensive minded (while not being elite defensively) big men are not that valuable.

From now on its about how we can utilize his skill set and how are we going to build with/around him. To me its clear that him and Willy wont be a very good fit going forward since neither of them really space the floor so hopefully Wcs is traded and we get a decent return from him.
 
I'm more curious why fans undervalued Bagley.
Well in my case it was ignorance.

I saw that the knocks on him were shooting and defense. I couldn't imagine a player like that being anything more than a garbage man big, and therefore a total misfire of a pick at 2. I was pretty disappointed when his name was called (he was probably my last choice).

After watching him play and seeing that combination of fire, athleticism, and fluidity... well, I'm warming up to the pick.

It's going to be fun watching him develop over the next few seasons. Considering he's already putting up good numbers with limited skills, it's fun to imagine where he'll be in year 2 and 3. Marvin is also going to be perfect with Fox, so I can see why Vlade went that direction on draft night.

And for the record, I wanted Luka because he looked like a sure thing (and he hasn't disappointed thus far), but if Bagley is dropping 20/10 (if not more!) in a couple seasons, I could care less what Luka is doing.
 
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"Somewhat worse than expected" does not necessarily mean "poorly". It could just be a reflection of very high expectations.
Well, Marvin did say his goal was to win MVP this year ;)....I kid. I love the way he’s playing. I feel like the game against the Wiz was probably his worst, and he still put up 11 and 8 in 23 min. He seemed a little out of sync with he turnovers, which all seemed like legit calls to me but probably more ticky-tack than is usually called on a nightly basis.
 
Way better than I thought. I wanted jjj at #2 but Bagley has made me a believer. He's so fluid for a guy his size and the defense was not at all expected by me. He's a future star from the looks at it, if we could do the draft over right now he'd be my guy at two.
JJJ looks like he will also be very good. I really don’t think you could go wrong with either, just slightly different skill sets. Given the pace the kings are trying to play, and with fox running things, I’m not disappointed in the choice.
 
Some thoughts so far:
The stuff coming out around the draft is that MB3 was chosen for a couple reasons: 1) he was arguably the most NBA-ready prospect, and 2) he would fit better alongside Fox than Luka.

Here's the concerning things about those two points:
1) He's the only top 4 guy who doesn't start and play big minutes, and Luka looks far more NBA ready at this point.
2) All the starters, with the exception of SF position, are monsters who carry the bulk of production. Luka would have fit right in and moving Bogey to the bench would have given the team that much more depth.

I don't mean this to be a Luka v MB3 post, but this is related to the expectations that were set both by the team and experts. Now, some additional thoughts:

-His FT shooting is poor. The line doesn't change and the hoop is still 10' high, so if guys get into the show can't shoot consistently, it is very likely they never will. It is rare for a poor FT shooter to make significant improvements (but possible).
-He needs to learn to use his off hand. Sorry, but he is so crippled on offense and around the basket, he doesn't even try the most basic finishes with his left. This is very concerning. And before the responses come in, what I mean by crippled is that his options are so limited it results in poor plays, missed shots, blocked shots, turnovers, etc. If he had an off hand, he'd be doing waaaay better.

He's a high energy guy that is going to draw fouls, and he needs to be able to both finish around the basket and finish at the line. The counter point is going to say "well he's got room to improve then!", yes, but I'll refer back to point number 1 that he's not the most NBA ready prospect if he has major holes in his game that limits his productivity for the team. Nobody is asking him to put the team on his back, but for the pick, we should be seeing a starter playing starter minutes and finishing like a NBA starter would. I just don't think he's as good as advertised, but I hope he will get there sooner than later.
 
1) he was arguably the most NBA-ready prospect
I'm not sure where this comes from. He skipped a year of high school and was ineligible one year and is basically still learning. He was seen as a mega-high ceiling guy for some since he has a contagious enthusiasm and is still very raw. Others saw him having more of a Shareef-like big numbers on a bad team career arc, but I don't think he was ever seen as the guy that gave us the best chance if the goal was to draft the ROtY or have the highest win shares in year one. I think almost universally that was seen as Ayton or Doncic and both were seen as being more NBA ready particularly Doncic who is a multi year pro.

I haven't gotten to see him enough to rate him so I'll just say I'm happy with what I've seen so far, particularly that we're able to ease him into the game. He'll get his minutes and I think we've seen that given time Joerger is able to integrate guys and they will make the jump. They also seem to have great chemistry and are playing well together and it's shown with the results on the court. All that poo-pooing culture and creating a winning attitude yet here we are with 20% of some people's projected win total 2 weeks into the season.
 
I'm not sure where this comes from. He skipped a year of high school and was ineligible one year and is basically still learning. He was seen as a mega-high ceiling guy for some since he has a contagious enthusiasm and is still very raw. Others saw him having more of a Shareef-like big numbers on a bad team career arc, but I don't think he was ever seen as the guy that gave us the best chance if the goal was to draft the ROtY or have the highest win shares in year one. I think almost universally that was seen as Ayton or Doncic and both were seen as being more NBA ready particularly Doncic who is a multi year pro.

I haven't gotten to see him enough to rate him so I'll just say I'm happy with what I've seen so far, particularly that we're able to ease him into the game. He'll get his minutes and I think we've seen that given time Joerger is able to integrate guys and they will make the jump. They also seem to have great chemistry and are playing well together and it's shown with the results on the court. All that poo-pooing culture and creating a winning attitude yet here we are with 20% of some people's projected win total 2 weeks into the season.
Marvin would've been picked at the very top of the 2017 draft if the rules allowed it... Thats in part where it comes from.
 
I'm not sure where this comes from. He skipped a year of high school and was ineligible one year and is basically still learning. He was seen as a mega-high ceiling guy for some since he has a contagious enthusiasm and is still very raw. Others saw him having more of a Shareef-like big numbers on a bad team career arc, but I don't think he was ever seen as the guy that gave us the best chance if the goal was to draft the ROtY or have the highest win shares in year one. I think almost universally that was seen as Ayton or Doncic and both were seen as being more NBA ready particularly Doncic who is a multi year pro.

I haven't gotten to see him enough to rate him so I'll just say I'm happy with what I've seen so far, particularly that we're able to ease him into the game. He'll get his minutes and I think we've seen that given time Joerger is able to integrate guys and they will make the jump. They also seem to have great chemistry and are playing well together and it's shown with the results on the court. All that poo-pooing culture and creating a winning attitude yet here we are with 20% of some people's projected win total 2 weeks into the season.
Agreed.

Ayton and Doncic was always the most NBA ready, it wasn't even close.

Bagley is being brought along slowly, like Fox was last year. He is learning the pace and watching from the bench to start the season, like Fox. Bagley will be starting by Christmas.

I think Bagley will finish his rookie year with good numbers. Probably in the 14 points, 7.5 rebounds, 2 assist, 1.0 blocks in about 28 min per game level, once he gets his feet wet. :)
 
Marvin would've been picked at the very top of the 2017 draft if the rules allowed it... Thats in part where it comes from.
But so would Doncic or Porter, either way it's always based on potential unless it's a rare case where it's a Duncan or LeBron. And even since then we've seen guys like Wiggins come in with ridiculous hype and be the third guy on very bad teams.

Just for example - I don't think anyone thought Fultz or Ball were the most NBA ready in 2017. Hell even Fox - a lot of folks knew there'd be more NBA ready talent later in the lotto but that he'd be a great long term prospect. Sometimes I feel like we've learned nothing from Tyreke.
 
2) he would fit better alongside Fox than Luka.
Well, Yes and No.

Seeing Fox really take off as the main ball handler, you can see why Vlade didn't want to take the ball from his hands.

It could have been the case that when they met with Doncic before the draft, he told them that he wants to be the point guard. I think the Kings envisioned having a clear secondary ball handler next to Fox, like Bogdan. Maybe they didn't want to split the ball handling duties from their young point guard.

The Kings are 4-3 right now and you can see that this is Fox's team. No If, Ands or Buts about it. And I think that is what Vlade envisioned when he drafted Bagley to be the inside force to Fox's speed and ball handling.

As you can see in Dallas, Dennis Smith and Doncic are splitting balI handling duties pretty evenly and they are 2-5.
Look at what is happening in Lakerland where their young point guard (Lonzo Ball) is splitting ball handling time with Lebron taking the ball out of Lonzo's hands, and they are 2-5.

It could be the case where Vlade just saw a better fit with Bagley, and he thinks Bagley has a higher ceiling. Doncic will be very good and is more NBA ready now, but that doesn't mean that in 2 or 3 years that Bagley can't be the better NBA player.
 
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I think the Kings have a lot of faith in Bogdan Boganovic, and likely saw Luka Doncic as offering a duplicative skill set in a lot of ways (despite the fact that he's got star potential). Couple that with the reality that the Kings clearly want to play fast, with the ball in Fox's hands, and it's much easier to see why the team drafted a superathlete and rim runner supreme like Marvin Bagley over Doncic.

For the first time in years, it seems like the Kings truly do have a plan and a vision for this team. Though drafting Bagley may have rankled many among Kings fans who had starry eyes at the prospect of drafting Doncic instead (I count myself among them -- he was 1B to Bagley's 1A on my board for the second pick), I think it might be more prudent to celebrate the fact that the Kings are no longer wandering around in the goddamn dark. Instead of Vivek, Vlade, and Joerger looking like the Three Stooges, bumbling about with no clear direction, they look like the Three Musketeers, united in their quest to transform this team. That kind of synergy between ownership, management, and coaching staff is essential. It's what made the Kings teams of the early 2000's hum so effortlessly.

Every decision the franchise has made since the end of last season, from drafting Bagley, to attempting to sign Zach Lavine, to signing Nemanja Bjelica, to pushing the pace at an ungodly speed as the regular season opened, to their newfound emphasis on taking extremely high percentage shots (a recent Ringer piece states that the "Kings are generating and converting shots at the rim at top-10 rates" and that "just nine of the Kings’ 178 3-point attempts have come with a defender within 4 feet of the shooter") points in the direction of a very obvious teamwide identity. And the players are buying in. Willie Cauley-Stein has never looked better. DeAaron Fox looks like an all-star in waiting. Bjelica looks like the smartest veteran signing since Vlade himself donned a Kings uni. And Marvin Bagley looks like the ideal beneficiary of all this team play.

I've been as cynical as any among kf.com's members as these twelve years without a playoff appearance have passed, and even I cannot help but be deeply encouraged by the fact that my expectations have been shattered through 7 games. Now, it could all go belly-up tomorrow. The Kings are exactly the kind of franchise that would tease tantalizing early success only to fold in on themselves when the pressure of sustainability rears its head. Something similar happened to the Magic last year after a strong start. But color me excited to consider the possibility of what it might mean if they actually could sustain this level of success.