So are we tanking? Is it a bad thing?

#1
I don't know what else we could be doing?
From going with Stauskas whom the front office had to know would take time to get better
From getting rid of Thomas who might help us win more games
To firing Malone when the team started to get better
and having a lameduck in Corbin be coach

Is it a bad thing to keep our first round pick and go all out next season and then into 2016?

On the other side I realize players want to win now
What does this do to Cousins and Gay?
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#2
There is no amount of tanking that will help this team. We need to pick in the top 2 or 3 and I don't think a team with Cousins, Gay, Collison, Casspi, etc. simply can't lose that much. They still could make the playoffs as remote as that would be so play as if that is within sight.
 
#3
I'm afraid this explanation makes a lot of sense. I think the decision was made when the FO determined we didn't have the personnel to make it to the Finals. We all saw it when Cousins was taken out with the virus. Furthermore, they believed Malone should have been able to get more of those wins against bad teams. So it was decided that Malone also wouldn't be able to get us the ring. Also, if we don't get a top 10 pick we lose it- Malone would get us probably around the 12-15 pick range.

The only thing that doesn't fit with this theory is the whole NBA 3.0 and up tempo basketball identity. Now, this could be an elaborate conspiracy to make an excuse for Malone's firing and subsequent tanking, but there is little evidence supporting that.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#5
This is the big question ... and nobody has the answer. Or, at least, nobody who knows the answer is willing to say anything. That's why the whole Kings nation is up in arms. We deserve better.
 
#7
I think the argument could be made we were tanking a bit last year as well to be honest. Playing Ben all those minutes, trading away Thornton, sitting Thomas at the end of the season etc
 
#11
Judging by the comments made by the FO, I can't believe they are INTENTIONALLY tanking. You don't drop nearly a billion dollars of your own cheddar in terms of team, arena, and downtown investment to run the risk of alienating the fans and what few corporate entities there are here. Too much is on the line in terms of business rep and profit to do that. It just doesn't make sense.

Last year they were so busy cleaning up piles of dung everywhere that they literally could have done no wrong, so they were given a reprieve. But as many of us warned, this was going to be the year that "blind loyalty" was going to go away and a far more critical eye would be cast on the "on-the-court product". That has borne out. I think the learning curve has taken longer than they expected and they are making rookie mistakes along the way.
 
#12
If we're tanking we're headed in the right direction in terms of team performance but that direction stands a good chance of alienating the players we have now. If we're not tanking and the front office actually believed swapping Malone for Corbin would help us to make the playoffs, then the team in charge is clueless. Is one of those alternatives better than the other? Probably the first one, but how are you going to tell DeMarcus and Rudy to play hard, develop good habits, and wait for next year? Like I said in the last game topic, any plan that doesn't involve explaining to your key players why they need to be patient and why their hard work isn't being wasted is a poor plan. You can't hide it from them that you're sabotaging the team so either they're in the dark getting aggitated or they're aware of the end goal and preparing themselves mentally for the long haul.

I still think it's a foolish plan with very little chance of success. And anyone who would throw away a chance at making the playoffs for a chance to pick 8-10 in the lottery deserves what's coming to them. Maybe we would have been a few games out of the playoffs with Malone coaching the team but you take that chance, and go into next year knowing you need to win 5 to 6 more games not 20 to 25 more.
 
#13
You don't tank with DMC, Gay, and Collison... It just doesn't work that way. Why are we wasting DMC's best years? I fear DMC will go the route of KG, maybe one year the front office will be lucky enough to get some good vets in cheaply that will get him to the playoffs... There's nobody in the draft right now that will make or break a playoff team next year. Especially since we will probably barely squeak into the top 10 spots if we're extremely lucky. We won't get a top 5 pick.

You know what's more valuable than a top draft pick? Instilling winning values in the team. Getting the team on the same page with a gameplan. Putting our biggest star in a position to become a leader. Getting everyone on the floor to buy into what they're trying to accomplish. There's nothing more important than having a system and having guys know what they're supposed to be doing. These are NBA players. Literally that top 0.0001% of basketball players in the world. Put them in situations where they can thrive and we'll see even guys like Stauska, JT, etc. playing well. Instead we've thrown them out there with no gameplan, no head-coach, and no future. It's no wonder why there isn't any ball movement. These guys have no idea what the f they're supposed to be doing.
 
#17
Vivek is playing a very dangerous game. He just has to look as far as Santa Clara to see what could happen.

The 49ers move into a state of the art stadium with a great team and proceed to tank this season. The fans are ticked beyond anything possible. The team can't win at home. The stadiums flaws were constant and front and center all season. They fire a popular coach and now the franchise is in complete turmoil heading into next season when they will be hosting Super Bowl 50. The last 3 home games I saw tickets selling for half what they were worth. The good will Jed York and the 49ers had built lasted maybe a half a season.

It also needs to be pointed out that the niners were coming off being 1 play away from the Super Bowl the previous season. They were already a great team. The kings are in danger of being a horrible team in turmoil moving into a new stadium. Who's gonna pay the new arena ticket prices if this team is in rebuilding mode yet again?
 
#18
Yes, why fight for the playoffs now, when you can tank and maaaaybe draft a player who, in four years or so, can maaaaybe develop into someone who can help the team fight for the playoffs....in four years or so.
Wait you mean this isn't the nfl where draft picks make an impact right away.
 
#19
Yes it's a bad thing. No draft pick is going to turn the team around over night. Look at some of our recent lottery picks:
Stauskas - pretty worthless so far
McLemore - terrible last year, starting to look like a future baller this year
Robinson - bust
Jimmer - Bust

more importantly, have you seen how pissed off Cousins has been lately? 50 more games of this crap is not going to go over well
 
#20
One other point - this team as constructed was never going to make the playoffs, and getting to .500 was never really realistic, any objective fan pretty much knew it going in. There are still problems with long term and untradeable contracts. So I can't say the team tanked, but even I, as cynical as I am, was headed in the right direction -- until December that is.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#22
One other point - this team as constructed was never going to make the playoffs, and getting to .500 was never really realistic, any objective fan pretty much knew it going in. There are still problems with long term and untradeable contracts. So I can't say the team tanked, but even I, as cynical as I am, was headed in the right direction -- until December that is.
I don't agree at all that this team couldn't win half its games. It was on its way until Malone was fired.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#23
The only thing tanking right now is the number of people who are going to be willing to put up deposits for season tickets next year. And I don't blame them. I've already put any plans on attending another game on hold. I won't go through this again with the same amount of patience I had last time. My patience is done...

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#24
I'm starting to feel like Nik was a bad pick. Don't kill me, but I have a reason. I believe that SG is the most easiest position of basketball. Your job is essentially to shoot... It is also the most replaceable position.

Nik was regarded as one of the best shooters with decent ball handling. He lacks athleticism and quickness. Those things are not teachable which is why Nik has a low ceiling. Shooting is teachable and Nik has continued to struggle shooting.

This 2015 class is full of players with amazing high ceilings. Great athleticism, quickness, and speed. All of which Nik doesn't have. This 2015 draft will be special.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#25
It's a terrible thing if they are, which I'm not going to give them the credit yet that they even have a plan. This team can't take 2 steps forward and 8 back like they have thanks by in large to the front office. There needs to be sign that this team can compete with the leagues elite and then make the necessary personnel/game plan changes accordingly. Right now there isn't even really a way to gauge what's needed because of all the unnecessary negativity.
 
#26
One other point - this team as constructed was never going to make the playoffs, and getting to .500 was never really realistic, any objective fan pretty much knew it going in. There are still problems with long term and untradeable contracts. So I can't say the team tanked, but even I, as cynical as I am, was headed in the right direction -- until December that is.
Dude what are you talking about we were headed in the right direction and definitely could have made the playoffs. And how you can say we wernt gonna be a .500 team is mind boggling. We beat Portland, LaC, Phoenix, Memphis(ya I know), San Antonio, and, Chicago. Those are playoffs teams how you come up with we are an under .500 team off that is just crazy. We were 9-8 before DMC got sick than in December we played Toronto, Indy, orlando, Utah, LaL, Houston, det, okc, Milwaukee, LaL, GS, Phoenix, NY, Brooklyn, and Boston. The way we were playing + being close in these games without DMC I'd say we would have atleast been 11-4 at worst this month putting us at 20-12 putting us 6 in the west and this is with no bench if we has a decent bench we don't blow games vs Memphis/Dallas would have made is 22-10 if DMC doesn't get sick. You add a couple bench players and we are a top 5 team this year. Portland/Toronto didn't tank to become contenders they add a bench which took them there. I'll ask who has the better starters keep in mind our starters were number 1 in defense and were dominate.

Collison/Ben/Gay/JT/Cousins
Lillard/Wes/Batum/ALD/Robin
Lowery/DD/Ross/Amir/Jonas

I'll take our starters over those 2 contenders espiscially with Ben improving by the day.

Even with DMC injury if we keep malone no way we loose to MLK/Phx/ Brooklyn/ and Boston with cousins there. We would be 17-15 and the 8th seed if we kept malone and we have an easy march schedule full of east teams. At the break you can add to the bench with a trade. Example Nik/ DWill/landry/ray for kevin Martin/ Thaddeus young. Now you have 2 go to scorers off the bench add to casspi and ray. Instantly you have a a good bench that has the potential to out perform almost any bench in the league. With that bench/our starters at worst we are the 9seed which is an A+ season although I think we would make the playoffs when you look at our schedule after the break. If we made the playoffs I think we beat Portland or Houston and we could scare Memphis. This is all in Malones 2nd year with that success you can have a malone/cousins combo for 10 years. You know what all good teams have in common? Consistency at the coach spot we had that here and ****ed it over.

But hey let's go with plan B, tank. You kill the moral of the team Gay/JT are looking for a way out cousins is slowly becoming pre malone cousins. All this for a ****ing pick which will be 8-12. A pick which likely won't make a difference next year or the following year. Look at Nik he's suppose to be ready and he's struggling and he was a shooter. Look at the # 2 pick he was mediocre and he is considered a franchise player where we will pick we will get a role player who won't play his first 2 year. If we arnt good next year Gay will leave and if you think we will get talent close to gay comming through free agency than I've got some bad news for you.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#27
We are all going to speculate on our own merits and I've come to the conclusion that this is a tanking year...I know that doesn't make sense considering you went out and got Collison and resigned Rudy but until we hear from the men themselves...and even then, we don't know what to believe so speculate at your own risk.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#28
We are all going to speculate on our own merits and I've come to the conclusion that this is a tanking year...I know that doesn't make sense considering you went out and got Collison and resigned Rudy but until we hear from the men themselves...and even then, we don't know what to believe so speculate at your own risk.
So you honestly don't think the players should be trying to win? I wonder if they told Rudy that when they extended his contract.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#29
So you honestly don't think the players should be trying to win? I wonder if they told Rudy that when they extended his contract.
Of course they should, no question. The front office probably views it differently though and the players can go out there and play and worry about the front office's crazy antics at the end of the year, they obviously don't want to play for Corbin and with good reason, he is a rental. Go out there and play for your teammates and establish something promising.