Should Rondo Come Off the Bench?

twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
Is anyone else here preferring that Rondo comes off of the bench this season?

I'm neither upset or excited about the arrival of Rondo. Part of that being I don't think he fits with our core players (Cousins & Gay), the fact that he hasn't been playing well lately, and because of his locker-room issues. But the other part of me welcomes him knowing how good he was a few years back and the fact that Carlisle's coaching style is not a good match for Rondo.

I'm not overly confident or optimistic that he will return to his all-star level (sure would love to see it), but I do think he can be a solid PG for us. Not being very optimistic about him reaching the level he was at, I would rather have Collison start. Of course you have to keep in mind how Rondo is going to react if you don't start him, but if he respects the decision, I think Collison makes more sense in the starting unit.

Let's think about it. Collison already has chemistry built with McLemore, Gay, & Cousins based off of them all playing in the starting unit together last year. We know a Collison/McLemore/Gay/Cousins combination works. The jury is still out on Rondo. Not to mention that last year Collison/McLemore/Gay/Thompson/Cousins was one of the best starting units in the league. Swap out Koufos with Thompson, add another year of development for Cousins and McLemore, factor in a year of developing chemistry, and you should only see a stronger unit this year.

Diving into both Rondo's and Collison's skillsets, it makes sense why Collison would be a better fit. The starting lineup already has two players who handle the ball for ample time (Cousins & Gay). Adding a ball dominant PG to the mix could disrupt that flow/chemistry. Collison showed us that he is willing to defer and play off of Cousins and Gay, but pick up the slack when needed. Collison is also a much, much better shooter, and he can provide much more spacing for Cousins and Gay. Rondo would allow defenses to sag off of him and clog the middle.

When looking at the bench unit, I think Rondo's skillset fits much better there. A bench of Rondo/Belinelli/Butler/Casspi/Cauley-Stein would be very well balanced, and we wouldn't see any toes being stepped on. Belinelli, Butler, Casspi, & Cauley-Stein are not very good at creating their own shots. They get out and run, spot-up, & move without the ball to get their points. Well pairing 4 of those players with a ball dominant PG who's main focus is to setup his teammates is perfect. Since the other 4 players aren't good creators with the ball in their hands, Rondo's lack of shooting will rarely come into play since he'll (more often than not) be the one creating not finishing. I'm sure Rondo wouldn't mind having three good 3pt shooters around him (Belinelli, Butler, & Casspi) with a gazelle at C who will make lob passes much easier to complete.

So there you have it. There are my reasons why Collison starting and Rondo off the bench would be best for the team. What do you guys think?

PG - Collison/Rondo/Curry/Stockton
SG - McLemore/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi/Butler
PF - Cousins/Acy/Dukan
C - Koufos/Cauley-Stein
 
On paper I would like Collison to start, but I don't think there is a chance it will happen- and considering that things will probably go south with Rondo, I would start Rondo.

I have a lot of concern on how he will work on the court with Cousins and Gay, and the "Karl will solve it" approach is kinda tough for me to buy since his stint in Dallas showed exactly what you get from him when you try to dictate his moves... but we never know until we see it on the floor...

One last note is that I think that people forgot how good Collison (and the Collison-Ben-Rudy-JT-DMC five) was last year, maybe because he got hurt.
I know he is not a top-tier PG, but I doubt anyone can seriously point blame on him... sometimes teams give the place of good role-players to flashier names and end up losing because of it...
CNMRWB3UEAE0VL3.png


I just hope that's not the case.
 
Rondo isnt coming off the bench unless he is so bad we have no other choice. At which point he will be traded or waived. I see Rondo and Collison both averaging close to or at 30 MPG though.
 
No doubt in my mind Rondo should come off the bench but I doubt that happens. Like OP said we know with Collison starting that unit works that wasn't a problem. Let Rondo lead a 2nd unit that has shooters and players ho don't need the ball so succed. I do want rondo to work starting but teams will sag off and let Rondo beat them. Gay/DMC will have no space rondo and Koufos or WCS starting creats too much spacing problems.
 
Its not happening, so this is kind of a pointless discussion, but I'll shoot anyway:

Even if it weren't, no, Rondo is actually exactly the opposite of what you normally look for from a bench PG. A non-scoring super roleplayer like Rondo is the guy you start next to all your biggest guns, and try to get him to do everything else. Then you bring scoring punch off the bench. And that only makes more sense when you consider that a) Darren Collison has already really excelled as a bench PG with the Clippers; and b) that it seems likely that Ben is going to start again. That latter part is important because Belinelli is a very good handling/passing SG, so to take advantage of that you would probably want him as a supplemental ballhandler next to Collison, who is not he purest of PGs. On the other hand Ben almost has to watch the ball from his hand to the floor to keep from dribbling it off his own feet, so the better pairing with him could well be a ball dominant pure passing PG like Rondo.

Now if Belinelli shoots the lights out and wins the starting spot that factor no longer applies, but Rondo still isn't coming off the bench. It would just mean that Ben wasn't coming around and was likely to be the 4th of our 4 guards in minutes, as Collison would not only backup Rondo, but probably get some SG minutes as well alongside him. DC did that with Paul in Clipperland, and it played right into his corner three shooting strengths.

In any case, Rondo isn't coming off the bench. This was our play. We have, for the first time in Sacramento Kings history, a starting PG who has actually won a title in that role.
 
Bricklayer said:
Its not happening, so this is kind of a pointless discussion, but I'll shoot anyway:

Even if it weren't, no, Rondo is actually exactly the opposite of what you normally look for from a bench PG. A non-scoring super roleplayer like Rondo is the guy you start next to all your biggest guns, and try to get him to do everything else. Then you bring scoring punch off the bench. And that only makes more sense when you consider that a) Darren Collison has already really excelled as a bench PG with the Clippers; and b) that it seems likely that Ben is going to start again. That latter part is important because Belinelli is a very good handling/passing SG, so to take advantage of that you would probably want him as a supplemental ballhandler next to Collison, who is not he purest of PGs. On the other hand Ben almost has to watch the ball from his hand to the floor to keep from dribbling it off his own feet, so the better pairing with him could well be a ball dominant pure passing PG like Rondo.

Now if Belinelli shoots the lights out and wins the starting spot that factor no longer applies, but Rondo still isn't coming off the bench. It would just mean that Ben wasn't coming around and was likely to be the 4th of our 4 guards in minutes, as Collison would not only backup Rondo, but probably get some SG minutes as well alongside him. DC did that with Paul in Clipperland, and it played right into his corner three shooting strengths.

In any case, Rondo isn't coming off the bench. This was our play. We have, for the first time in Sacramento Kings history, a starting PG who has actually won a title in that role.
Click to expand...

When one of your main points is how Rondo/Collison fits with McLemore rather than how Rondo/Collison fits with Cousins and Gay, we have a problem. Is it important to address how he would fit with the entire starting unit? Of course. But not nearly as important with how he fits with our top two guys.
 
Rondo simply isn't a bench PG. And while I thought Collison was great for the Kings as a starter, he's shown himself to be a great sub too, something Rondo has never done.

And honestly I think that's why Rondo is the barometer for the Kings season. He's not built to be a bench PG. So he has to start and he has to play well for the Kings to contend for a playoff spot.

Either Rajon succeeds as a starter or he was a poor signing.
 
if Rondo comes off the bench for any reason baring injury we have failed as a team in where we need to be its as simple as that.

Karl is the perfect coach for Rondo style wise. Im not a Karl fan in terms of his man mangement skills and constant politicking which has followed him around his career but Rondo is the perfect fit for this offense at the point and Karl is his perfect coach. There is no reason why Rondo can not be what Payton was to the Sonics under Karl during their championship run years.

Collison is the perfect backup PG. He did a solid job as a starter and pushing him to the bench speaks positively of the depth we have built.
 
funkykingston said:
Rondo simply isn't a bench PG. And while I thought Collison was great for the Kings as a starter, he's shown himself to be a great sub too, something Rondo has never done.

And honestly I think that's why Rondo is the barometer for the Kings season. He's not built to be a bench PG. So he has to start and he has to play well for the Kings to contend for a playoff spot.

Either Rajon succeeds as a starter or he was a poor signing.
Click to expand...
I don't think that makes him a poor signing. He is on a 1 yr contract and let's face it top tier guards weren't begging to come here. I would say if he plays poorly it was a one dollar scratcher that didn't win.
 
Whoever starts or doesn't should be determined by one singular thing: how well they fit next to Rudy Gay and Demarcus Cousins. If this team is better with Collison next to them then the answer is simple and we all know Collison looked pretty good with them last year.

Before that though I really want to see what a unit of Rondo, Mclemore, Gay, WCS, and Cousins can do. I don't know if it's going to make life hell for Cuz inside offensively but there is no reason it can't make life hell for teams on the other end even if it does. The question then would be whether or not the lack of spacing offensively and possible subsequent move to a more perimeter oriented Cousins would be worth the potential defensively.
 
twslam07 said:
I agree. Just playing the "what if" game.
Click to expand...

Are you freaking kidding? You did all this for a "what if" game? What's next? Seeing if you can get people to agree to start Collison, Anderson, Casspi, Acy and WCS so we'll have the most awesome bench in the history of the NBA? Gee, maybe we should start a campaign to get DMC nominated for 6th man. :rolleyes:
 
PurpleHaze said:
Kings sign Rondo to one year deal for $10M just so he can warm the bench. Yeah, right.
Click to expand...


Then again, what other team was out there with any interest that he would have realistically started on from day 1? If anything I'd say the Kings paid the price to at least have the option. I didn't see any reports out there showing much interest from other teams let alone at that price tag. As we well know, Sacramento has never been a city afraid of a reclamation project, hopefully both sides are lucky to have each other regardless of how it goes down.
 
VF21 said:
Are you freaking kidding? You did all this for a "what if" game? What's next? Seeing if you can get people to agree to start Collison, Anderson, Casspi, Acy and WCS so we'll have the most awesome bench in the history of the NBA? Gee, maybe we should start a campaign to get DMC nominated for 6th man. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

There's always at least one overreaction in a thread, I guess your post will have to do...

Why can't I make a post about this? It's a valid discussion point. I agree that I don't think it will happen, but why can't we still discuss it? There's a reason why the thread is titled "should rondo come off the bench?" not "will rondo come off the bench?" No need to be such a sourpuss about it.
 
est.1999 said:
Why do you assume that 5 bench players will play together at the same time? We're going to run multiple sets of rotations throughout the season.
Click to expand...

Judging from what we saw last year. It doesn't mean there is only going to be two rotations (starters and bench players). Not everything has to be in absolutes.
 
I don't think Rondo had any intentions on coming off the bench when signing here...besides the obvious reason.
 
Rondo, Ben, Casspi, Rudy, Dmc.
More than enough space for Rondo.
And Rondo is used to play against a defense, that sags off of him and still played very effective in the past.
My only concern with Rondo is his defense. After years of playing alongside Bradley, can he still guard elite Pg's? Is the competetive spirit still there, that made him one of the leagues best defensive guards in the past?
 
VF21 said:
Are you freaking kidding? You did all this for a "what if" game? What's next? Seeing if you can get people to agree to start Collison, Anderson, Casspi, Acy and WCS so we'll have the most awesome bench in the history of the NBA? Gee, maybe we should start a campaign to get DMC nominated for 6th man. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

To be fair, this is a Kings message board. Every conversation about potential trades, signings, draft picks etc is a "what if" game. Every conversation about lineups, match ups, potential coaching adjustments, or about wish lists for new coaches etc is essentially a "what if" game.

And while I agree that it's unlikely that Rondo will be coming off the bench to start the season I don't think it's beyond the pale to wonder whether the Kings would be better off with Collison starting. He was a better (or at least more engaged/active) defender, a much better shooter and he pushed the pace the way Karl likes to. He was also a pretty good (IMO) compliment to Gay and Cousins. Rondo on the other hand has become a poor/disinterested defender, is a terrible shooter, doesn't attack the basket anymore - likely because he doesn't want to go to the line due to his sub 40% (!) FT%, and has always been more of a walk it up, half court PG. And how he'll compliment Rudy and Boogie is still an unknown right now.

And that's why we have to hope Rondo has a major resurgence. He's not built to be a backup PG and so if he's a poor starter then the Kings will be weak at the PG spot with just Collison being a known quantity - assuming he can stay healthy.
 
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