SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Like most advanced stats, an answer looking for a question that fits. IIRC I remember hearing that stat heavily favors bigs. To the point where it's very hard to use as a metric position to position.
Shams Bomb! Keon Ellis and Dennis Schroder traded to Cleveland in 3 team deal. Kings acquire De’Andre Hunter
- Thread starter NewArena
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Like most advanced stats, an answer looking for a question that fits. IIRC I remember hearing that stat heavily favors bigs. To the point where it's very hard to use as a metric position to position.
Don't know how much you do or don't use twitter but Fox's wife isn't some backstage influence, she's front and center running internet PR for him and put together a sizable influencer army who all blame Domas for everything that happened to Brown. She got into an altercation with a player who was at one point in time a good enough friend to be in their wedding party on the court after Fox's homecoming. I view the fact that I acutely know who a player's wife is on about the same par as knowing a referee's name. It's generally not good.
Fox quit on Brown before he quit on us. Fox got Brown fired as much as anyone else on the team. Then used that as a trade demand. You believe what you want but to me those three sentences are truth.
LEBRON is BB Index's flagship stat and looking up their explanation it appears like it is very much dependent on how a team uses a player. So if a player goes against the other team's best player every night they are going to look bad unless they are lock down on D.
Then the "role average" convolutes things because BB Index assigns your role and they don't always get it right. But it appears BB Index requires paid membership so I couldn't get much info on Hunter.
LEBRON Introduction - Basketball Index
Read about BBall Index's LEBRON impact metric, a next level metric to estimate impact of NBA players since the 2009-10 season.
www.bball-index.com
serbiangoat
Starter
Hunter would have been a great pick up to pair with Keegan the season they made arguably the worst signing in Kings history in DDR when you had Fox.
The trade would be a win but the team is trying to tank.....
The trade would be a win but the team is trying to tank.....
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
Keon on a value contract was awesome. Keon on a veteran contract would be just ok.
Given how little of Keon's destiny we contractually controlled, we weren't in a position to extract a lot of value from trading him.
Trading Schröder is a puzzle though; the core question remains unanswered: is Perry still trying to build around Domas?
Given how little of Keon's destiny we contractually controlled, we weren't in a position to extract a lot of value from trading him.
Trading Schröder is a puzzle though; the core question remains unanswered: is Perry still trying to build around Domas?
Joshyjosh31
Starter
And what was the reason for not having control
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
So far, that's between Keon, Keon's agent, Monte, and Perry. From the outside, we're just guessing
For the record I adore Cardwell.....I dont care that he has no offense......and was unhappy that Kings management kept him out for a month or so into the season. Undrafted golden pickup. His Auburn highlights sold me in 5 mins or whatever.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
On this note, should note that Keon and Dennis have the same agent (also Keegs, so I dunno, be ready for a shocking trade) so they might’ve been a package deal.
Handful may be expecting too much, but how bout one 2nd round pick. Yes, Schroder was a poor free agent signing, and not a good first impression for the new General Manager.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Moves like this are usually precursor moves to something else. Opening up two roster slots makes it easier to trade a big contract (Domas?) for a couple of slightly smaller deals or a bigger deal and the cheap young guy you’re actually excited about getting on the roster.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
It’s not great I agree but at least it is a wing tandem. I would guess you are hoping the draft falls well and it’s a wing rotation. Or you ad expirings for 27 and pay to get one
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Clearing out the guard logjam also makes it so you can take a guard in the draft with absolutely no issues at this point. Peterson is big enough to be a wing but if we fall to five and get Flemings, there was a 75% chance Doug would have him coming off the bench behind Dennis for some reason.
Padrino
All-Star
Always a good sign when a GM trades his own ill-advised off-season acquisition to prevent his neophyte head coach from playing that ill-advised off-season acquisition too many minutes alongside the GM's other ill-advised off-season acquisition.
Padrino
All-Star
Damage control? Here's De'Aaron Fox in December:
"I don’t really have anything to say [about the Kings]. It is what it is. I wish [Keegan Murray] the best. Whether that is rebuilding, I want him to be in the best situation for him."
"The grass is greener on this side."
"I haven’t stopped smiling since I’ve been here."
The man wanted to leave, I don't think he was particularly conflicted about it, I don't think his wife or agent were pulling any kind of Machiavellian strings, and given everything that's happened within the Kings organization in the year since trading Fox, it's getting easier and easier for me to say, "Well, he did what he had to do."
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
Monte had one skill. Taking smallish guards early in the draft when others were drafting length.
None of that talent worked for us because you can’t use all those guards at the same time. But yeah sure you can say Monte was excellent at identify one type of player, wasting early picks on them, and extremely poor roster construction.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
Yep we are going to play a lot of bad teams and could easily end up 6 or 7 in the draft where you are looking at Brown or Wagler as well. Both would have just further impacted a backcourt not to mention the BPA at our 2nds could also well be a guard.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
And I absolutely get why. The only straw I can give you to grasp is Perry could not have moved Vivek to do a rebuild without signing a point guard.
Step 0: Get Vivek to realize a rebuild had to occur.
Step 1: unload acquired vets. <——. We are here
Padrino
All-Star
Indeed. There is a great deal of desire within the fanbase for something to happen, and would you look at that? Something just happened! I understand the impulse for many to celebrate simply because the Kings are not sitting idly at the trade deadline. It's good that the front office is making their calls and exploring all kinds of possibilities. In a vacuum, however, this trade does absolutely nothing for the issue of clarity. What are the Kings doing? That's what I want to know. And right now, there's no answer to this question, based on, as you noted, the unfathomable decisions that have been made since Scott Perry was hired.
Perry himself has said he expects it to take some time to turn the Kings into a sustainable winner. That's perfectly fine; I'm all-in for a patient rebuild. But if this trade is part of Perry's plan to turn the Kings into a sustainable winner, it's unclear to me how it assists with that goal. There may be follow up moves that bring us greater clarity, of course, but right now? I don't get it.
De'Andre Hunter is a wing with length. Huzzah! Can you believe it?! A wing with length!! We need one of those!!! Uhm, yeah... sure? Nearly a full teardown is what the Kings actually need, and Hunter is 28, oft-injured, has regressed as a shooter this season, has never really been a plus-defender despite his reputation, but you know what? None of that even matters, because what is the plan into which Hunter figures? Is he expected to be a long-term piece of the puzzle? Probably not. Is he expected to contribute to winning? Well, what's the point of that when Perry is calling for patience and the Kings desperately need to rely on their own lottery odds to do much of the heavy lifting in a rebuild?
So... is De'Andre Hunter just a stopgap then? If so, then the trade's only purpose was to clear up a guard logjam of Perry's own making. Necessary, perhaps, but hardly worth celebrating. Again, I understand the impulse for Kings fans to look at this trade and say, "Well, the Kings got a good player at a position of need, so it's a good trade." But that view just ignores so much important context.
I mean, somehow, the Kings are sending out a second rounder in this deal! Does that pick mean sh*t? No, not really. But at a time when the Kings need to be scrambling for youth and every future draft pick they can get their hands on, they just should not be in the business of trading younger-for-older and giving up picks of any kind. It's a ho-hum deal, meant to begin the process of unwinding the mistakes of the off-season while not committing the Kings to long-term money. Keon Ellis becomes a sacrifice Perry needed to make in order to revise his own plan. Not particularly auspicious, that.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
I’m not sure I would say we won the trade as much as it’s not as bad as most portray it. Yes we had to pay to dump Dennis but if we don’t sign Dennis we don’t move Vivek from point A to point B. We clear out some of the guard rotation. We shall see what happens next.
Entertaining to read the last 4-5 pages.
I think the biggest thing about the deal is that when we are supposedly in a 5 year window of building, most were not expecting to acquire a vet who is 28. Whether Hunter still has juice left, his shooting is definitely down this year, is secondary to what teams would usually do in a rebuilding window, which is getting younger assets/picks.
The balancing of roster, length , getting rid of Schroder, etc is fine, but this surely doesn’t seem to fit a rebuild.
I think the biggest thing about the deal is that when we are supposedly in a 5 year window of building, most were not expecting to acquire a vet who is 28. Whether Hunter still has juice left, his shooting is definitely down this year, is secondary to what teams would usually do in a rebuilding window, which is getting younger assets/picks.
The balancing of roster, length , getting rid of Schroder, etc is fine, but this surely doesn’t seem to fit a rebuild.
While I agree with everything you said, the team isn’t going to come out and say this is a stopgap move. They would be stupid to say anything like that.
I view it as a move to balance the team makeup a bit by cheaply picking up a distressed asset. If nothing else it helps clear up a logjam at guard a bit.
Not every move has to be a home run. Some can be singles or sacrifice flies.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
We unloaded some guards. I don’t consider that nothing. Hunter could be a one year rental or not depending on how our draft pick falls. If we end 5 6 or 7 he could be one of 2 wings we have.
Yes, but the move still doesn’t make sense if we are in a long term plan. I get the boxes it checks. And we used an apparent asset who other teams wanted to make a move for and we attached him for a 28 year old who would be more of a win now type move. Again, GM says one thing but then his move seems like the opposite of what he is saying.
Maybe Perry has more trades working where DDR is moved out and therefore, Hunter is much younger than DDR.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
Pretty credible to say Hunter is injured and sit him
Tizzy Flip
Starter
Looking at Perry’s track record, he favors bigger guards that can shoot and are playmakers…. Grimes, Quickly. I believe he was part of the Knicks when they signed Brunson too to what is now the best bargain in recent history. So when he got someone small, he made sure he got a premier scorer. He’ll have an elite group of guards to pick from in this draft who can score at every level. Peterson, Fleming, Wagler, etc. Not saying this is what he’ll do, but if the past is an indicator, he’ll want to upgrade the guard position and surround them with wings and a rim protector.
We’ll see after the trade deadline and the draft if this is his vision. Hoping he can execute it and somehow clear the glut of vets just interested in building up their legacy