Sacramento's biggest flaw? The PF spot

[Catalyst]

Sacramento's largest flaw right now is their PF position. This is a team that's used to having a 20/10/4 All-Star player that they could run their offense through.

Some people may argue that the SG position is more crucial right now, but if you look at the difficulty of finding a good big man vs finding a good SG, you start to see where our focus should be.

I'll start with who we have on our roster.

Kenny Thomas: At 6'7 you're looking at having a VERY difficult time matching up with the rest of the PFs in the West. And considering that rebounding has been Sacramento's consistently worse weakness, having a guy this short at this position is not a good solution. Kenny does have some skills to bring to the table, but I think most of us would agree that his ideal role would be coming off the bench.

Brian Skinner: As much as I like Skinner, his lack of offense seems to limit his minutes with Adelman. I'm not sure how our new 'defensive focus' will change things, but I'm assuming not a ton. Skinner is a very good shot blocker and a pretty good rebounder. He's 6'9, strong and plays the other PFs in the league well. His offense on the other hand doesn't bode well for him being on the floor as his jumper and post game are limited.

Besides switching Brad to PF and trying some weird combo that probably wouldn't work out well, our options are limited.

Petrie has said in the past the hopes of finding a good big man at the position we pick in the draft is highly unlikely, so that means we should be looking at other options. Mine are....

Trade to get a higher draft pick: Dallas traded Antawn Jamison last year and got the 5th pick in the draft. They ended up with Devin Harris as their future PG whom they're very happy with. It's possible that Sac could do something similar. One idea would be trading Bobby Jackson to the Nets for the 15th pick in the draft. The Nets get a great back up for Jason Kidd and we get a higher pick.

Trade for a PF: Wild speculation to follow. I'm going to toss out some names and explain why.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim: Shareef is an unrestricted FA and Portland would probably be willing to accommodate a sign and trade. He's a PF with good offensive skills. His passing doesn't jump out at you, but he does have solid passing ability. He's also Bibby's former teammate.

Stromile Swift: This guy has talent, but he's a bit of a question mark for work ethic. He'd be a gamble and personally I'd rather go for a younger player or a more sure thing. That said, what is there is pretty good. VERY athletic, good rebounder, good defender and he also happens to be an unrestricted FA. He should command a nice offer for some team considering his age and upside. This would probably be a hard player for Sac to land.

Kurt Thomas: Defense, rebounding, some offense. This would be bringing in a solid player vs. trying to bring in a star. It all depends on where the team wishes to go, but he could probably be had much easier in a trade than the other two people I mentioned. Plus, Isiah seems to be almost as bad as the previous NY GM, maybe the Knicks would trade us their draft pick AND Kurt Thomas for some scrubs, heh.

I had hoped for more options, but right now those are all that come to mind.

The PF spot is so crucial to this team, especially considering what we're lacking right now. I think it's paramount that we fix that position as soon as possible.

Feel free to add your opinions.

 

[Catalyst]

I also wanted to add I think our best choice at this point is finding a way to move up in the draft. Either this year or for next season -- or future seasons.

I honestly feel we're in "rebuild in the fly" mode and our best chance of getting back to being a contending team would be to find a young big guy to fill the roles we need.

I've also just named the holy grail that every NBA team is searching for. Big men are a premium in this league and one of the main reasons why I'm so happy we have Brad Miller.

Finding a great young big man is rare.

 

[KA_2]

I'd try and draft Simien (brittle, but could be great if healthy) or Taft (bad attitude, but with the right coaching could also be great) with your #1. I'd look at May with your #2. Ike Diogu might still be available at your pick, but I doubt it, his workouts have been positive and his wingspan measured out to be a Brand-esque 7'4", and he's nearly 6'9" to boot (and not 6'7"-6'8" as originally thought at Arizona).

Either way, Kings need shot blocking in the worst way.

 

[SactoGreg]

Catalyst,

While I agree that the 4 needs attention, I respectfully disagree it's the biggest area of concern for the Kings.

IMO, the Kings need to focus on improving at the 5. As you suggest, big men are rare. But if the Kings had a decent center to establish a low post presence (something completely missing from the Kings offense), take up some space in the paint, defend, REBOUND and block a few shots, PFs like Kenny Thomas would flourish. Furthermore, I'd like to see Miller get more minutes at the 4, depending on matchups.

The Kings just don't have any answer at center. As good as Brad is, he's just doesn't match up well with many centers, and his defense is a liability in the paint. His passing is above average, and he can shoot from the outside. But is shooting 18 footers what you want out of your center offensively?

To be honest, there really isn't a wrong answer on what the Kings need to improve. The unfortunate fact is, the Kings have many holes that need repair...

 

[Bibby_Is_Clutch]

I agree with you Sacto, I think we need to focus on getting a dominant center who can score down low with authority and also be a shot blocker who can run (Ben Wallace type with more offensive options). You know who wouldve been a good pickup would have been Nazr Mohammed from the Knicks. Maybe a Webber trade could have occured there and brought in Nazr and maybe Thomas and a draft pick. Who knows but Nazr looks solid in the playoffs. He can score, he hustles, blocks shots and is what we need.

If we go for a lower pick then Im assuming there arent many top 10 teams willing to trade their pick? or if we are willing to trade what it takes to get a lower pick.

Also, rememmber Brad played well at the 4 2 years ago when Peja was lighting it up for 25 a night so if we can get ahold of a good center then we can play Brad at the 4 and see how he does.

 

[Alacron]

Catalyst,
IMO, the Kings need to focus on improving at the 5. As you suggest, big men are rare. But if the Kings had a decent center to establish a low post presence (something completely missing from the Kings offense), take up some space in the paint, defend, REBOUND and block a few shots, PFs like Kenny Thomas would flourish. Furthermore, I'd like to see Miller get more minutes at the 4, depending on matchups.

If we could get a 4 who's good around the basket, that would work too. Although we do need an inside presence, it's also good to have a big guy who can work outside as effectively as Brad.

If there's any way we can get Elton Brand (other than trading Bibby or Miller) I say go for it.
~~

 

[Pollardo!]

Sacramento's largest flaw right now is their PF position.

I have to disagree. I'd have to say that while we have two servicable semi-starters in Thomas and Skinner; our biggest hole is actually at shooting guard. And while I'd rather have a Star 4, than a Star 2, I think that our biggest concern this off-season should be signing a Larry Hughes (type). I say type, because the money he'll command is unfortunately going to be far too rich for our blood.

 

[hrdboild]

The other issue I think is that veteran PF/C types are an expensive commodity in the NBA. We've got a much better shot at getting a difference maker at SG than PF or C with the players we have available for trade and the MLE. That is unless you're willing to sacrafice a core guy to get a PF and open up another hole somewhere else. Maybe that's the best solution, but I don't see a lot of players that would make that option worthwhile. Which is why the trade up in the draft and take a PF/C type is such an appealing option. Whoever we draft is going to be signed for three years at a salary we can afford and there's even a chance they'll be a bargain at that price. That sounds better I think than overpaying for a veteran. Unless we can combine the contracts of Thomas, Skinner, Corliss, maybe Jackson or Otag too and get a PF that way which would be ideal. The SG spot is an easier hole to fill (Mo could do a competant job of it and maybe Special K too after playing in summer leagues with the guys). And we probably could get a veteran SG who would help us with the MLE.

 

[VF21]

It's interesting to say our biggest flaw is at the PF.

IMHO, the biggest flaw is that we have gone from an elite contending team (look at 2002-2003) to a merry band of mismatched parts, underachieving players in key positions, and a payroll that is larger than the budget of some third-world countries.

We are a team - quite frankly - in crisis, and for more than just what's happening on the court. We are a team with owners who are suddenly acting like they have the business acumen of Bozo the One-Legged Monkey. We are a team with a coach who has done an admirable job in nearly impossible situation and has watched as his future was bandied about in the press without so much as a "by your leave" by those same owners. We are a team with a rapidly deteriorating arena - and no apparent spokesperson from the owners willing to educate the public about the need to replace it. We are a team whose owners have raised ticket prices AGAIN although there's no question the product taking the court will not even be as good as last year's model.

We are a team in the middle of an identity crisis. Are we one player away from being elite again? Do we have to trade away one of our four remaining players (or more) from the good-old days to even have a hope of remaining in the playoffs? Are we going to sink into the morass of mediocrity and have to slowly climb our way out of the sludge - again?

I've said it a million times. I love this team. And I will continue to love this team. But I'm not willing to buy the theory that everything will be okay if we just:

a. Get a real PF
b. Get a real SG
c. Draft a really good player with the 23rd pick
d. Any combination of the above

I am totally and completely baffled about the Maloof's attitude towards our team, our coach, and US. They seem to be taking it for granted that we - the long-time loyal fans - will continue to blindly follow them wherever they lead. IMHO they're telling us how nice the Emperor looks in his new clothes.

Well, I have a news flash:

The Emperor is NAKED!

 

[Catalyst]

It's weird seeing probably the most positive person on this board saying how bleak we look -- that person being VladeFan21. Understandable, but it is weird. She's usually so upbeat.

I do agree that none of the moves we could do are likely going to put us back up with the elite teams, but we're in a rebuilding mode and it's going to take awhile of building something to get us back there. My idea is one that I hope will help -- you have to walk before you can run.


Now to reply to the other guys. As far as bringing in a dominant low post center I'm assuming you guys mean a defensive center here. Because there's ONE -- in the entire league -- dominate center on both ends of the court and that's Shaq. ONE.

There's a few centers with a great offensive low post game, but lack severely at other areas. And there's a few more great defensive low post centers out there, but again -- they lack offense.

I find it funny you guys mention Nazr Mohammed of all people. Now, Nazr is a solid player, but this isn't a guy that was blowing things up in Atlanta when he was one of their go-to-guys, nor was he having a stellar stint when he was traded from the Knicks.

Do you guys even realize that Nazr averaged CONSIDERABLY better numbers in NY this year than he did in San Antonio?

 

[Bricklayer]

I didn't even notice Nazr being mentioned, but I ahve to agree, that's not answer at all. Completely middling center just on the right team with the right teammates and part of a big big lineup.

There are rumors that Jamaal Magliore is available, and that isinteresting. But he's no star himself, and if we did go get him it would presumably be to build the NBA's slowest Magliore/Miller C/PF combo. And while Jamaal is a rugged player, he's really not much of a shotblocker himself. We'd be big, tough, and slow as molasses.

 

[Warhawk]

I didn't even notice Nazr being mentioned, but I ahve to agree, that's not answer at all. Completely middling center just on the right team with the right teammates and part of a big big lineup.

There are rumors that Jamaal Magliore is available, and that isinteresting. But he's no star himself, and if we did go get him it would presumably be to build the NBA's slowest Magliore/Miller C/PF combo. And while Jamaal is a rugged player, he's really not much of a shotblocker himself. We'd be big, tough, and slow as molasses.

Hey, you forgot about Greg "Greased Lightning" Ostertag....

 

[Catalyst]

Who I think would be great on our team is a Jermaine O'Neal/Elton Brand type of PF. Now that said, those happen to be two of the best PFs in the league and are the franchise players of their respective squads.

Finding a guy like that outside of the draft is rare, although it does sometimes happen through trades.

We have a nice asset in Brad Miller that he can slide to the 4 if needed, but I think people are too quickly forgetting that at the start of this year Brad Miller was regarded as one of the top centers in the league -- and he still is.

It's VERY difficult to find a big man with Brad's passing ability, rebounding skills, toughness and offensive game. He's one of the very few complete center packages in the league and we're lucky to have him.

Finding a great center is more difficult than finding a great PF.

 

[Rowdyone]

Phoenix is trying to trade Shawn Marion who played PF for them this year at 6'7". I really don't think we have what Phoenix wants, a quick 5 with shotblocking ability (Delembert?) but wouldn't it be cool to see him in our lineup ?

 

[Bricklayer]

Who I think would be great on our team is a Jermaine O'Neal/Elton Brand type of PF. Now that said, those happen to be two of the best PFs in the league and are the franchise players of their respective squads.

Finding a guy like that outside of the draft is rare, although it does sometimes happen through trades.

We have a nice asset in Brad Miller that he can slide to the 4 if needed, but I think people are too quickly forgetting that at the start of this year Brad Miller was regarded as one of the top centers in the league -- and he still is.

It's VERY difficult to find a big man with Brad's passing ability, rebounding skills, toughness and offensive game. He's one of the very few complete center packages in the league and we're lucky to have him.

Finding a great center is more difficult than finding a great PF.

Brad's problem is that he is NOT a complete center package, or even close. He's just as limited in his own ways as the post/power center who can't dribble, pass, shoot. Brad can't block shots, defend, or post, and he's really a farily middling rebounder. I can't recall the last time I've seen a center of his overall caliber who opponents so vigorously ignored on defense -- guys from Cs all the way down to PGs just run right at him with complete impunity and he seems helpess to do anything but just stick his arms up and hope. Normally unsuccessfully hope I might add.

He's still one of the best centers in the league because of what he CAN do, and barring a KG trade just about indispensible if we want to try to run the same big man high post offense. But he's a 15 and 9 type player, and whether you stick "All Star" in front of that or not, its All Star by default because of the terrible lack of centers right now. 10-15 years ago he may not even have been Top 10 (Hakeem, David, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning, Deke, Vlade, Smits, Daugherty, Seikaly etc.).

Think the biggest thing is not that Brad is that good, but just that there are so FEW good centers that your odds of grabbing one of the few other talented ones are much less than getting yourself a very talented PF.

 

[Bricklayer]

Phoenix is trying to trade Shawn Marion who played PF for them this year at 6'7". I really don't think we have what Phoenix wants, a quick 5 with shotblocking ability (Delembert?) but wouldn't it be cool to see him in our lineup ?

I saw that article over at Realgm, and I have to say I think its bogus. Its just an OpEd, and the guy who wrote doesn't cite anything or anyone, not even a secret source, to back up his claim Marion will be dealt. he jsut thinks it will happen. And even his reasoning is shaky -- lack of depth is ok in March but doesn't work in June?? Uh...other way around dude.

 

[Catalyst]

Brad's problem is that he is NOT a complete center package, or even close. He's just as limited in his own ways as the post/power center who can't dribble, pass, shoot. Brad can't block shots, defend, or post, and he's really a farily middling rebounder. I can't recall the last time I've seen a center of his overall caliber who opponents so vigorously ignored on defense -- guys from Cs all the way down to PGs just run right at him with complete impunity and he seems helpess to do anything but just stick his arms up and hope. Normally unsuccessfully hope I might add.

What center in the league can dribble? It's not something you look for in a 5.

The remark about his defense seems odd to me. He had a bad season this year, but Miller is generally regarded as a good defender around the league. Not a team defensive guy, but man to man. If you're saying team defense, then, yeah, he's nothing special.

As far as not being a good rebounder, he averages almost 10 a game since he's been with the Kings. Brad's 9.3 rebounds per game this season was 3rd among centers behind, yep you guessed it -- Shaq and Ben Wallace.

 

[rexb_kings]

Now to reply to the other guys. As far as bringing in a dominant low post center I'm assuming you guys mean a defensive center here. Because there's ONE -- in the entire league -- dominate center on both ends of the court and that's Shaq. ONE.

Since Kings lost Divac,CWebb,DChristie last season. Was just thinking, what if the Kings just traded them in the first place for Shaq maybe we won't be thinking or writing in this thread right now. And to think Ginobili was a FA that summer. whew...! we need better foresight not hindsights...

sorry guys..just one of my what ifs...

 

[SacTownKid]

You want to know where the team is headed???

The maloofs and Petrie HAVE already told us!

They are builing around Peja, Bibby, and Miller. So from that I don't gather they are looking to bring in a superstar to take the attention away from these three. Rather bring in the right peices AKA role players, to put around them. Whether you agree or disagree on it being the right decision, that is what has been said. Could that change tommorrow? sure. But right now this is what we know.

1. Rick Adelman will be the coach next season
2. The team is being built around Peja, Miller, and Bibby.
3. The teams focus is going to be on defense more than ever before
4. The Kings will draft the best player available at #23, meaning it could be a PG, SG, SF, PF, or C.

Sometimes I like Petries secretive manner, but it sure makes for a lot of speculation and uncertainty. Oh well.

P.S. I for one would try putting Otag in the lineup. Brad and Otag have said they are planning to show up IN SHAPE for once and I would give them a shot.

Tag and Miller are good friends and their games are very different and could really work well together (as seen for a brief time in the playoffs before Rick somehow forgot to pair them up ever again.)

I was watching some game tape from last season (yes I record the games as well. I find that by looking back at tape you really grasp what each player adds to the team while he is on the court as opposed to worrying about the outcome.) He literally consistently tree topped every other player on the court and grabbed rebounds, blocked and/or altered shots, and did other things Brad doesn't. Of course he also looked like crap on offense but still, he did what we need. He and Brad could become a very effective combo! Everyone will hate it b/c he isn't some "big name guy", or he is "out of shape" but its got potential.

 

[Catalyst]

I believe I've read the same articles as you have and I don't see that that's the direction the Kings are going for sure.

Has it been hinted at? Yes.

Is it for sure? No.

The Maloofs and Kings management are having a meeting here in Vegas pretty soon to decide the future of the team. I'm working under the assumption the decision on where to go will be decided there. Especially considering that Geoff Petrie would probably like to have some input on where the team should go.

 

[SacTownKid]

What center in the league can dribble? It's not something you look for in a 5.

The remark about his defense seems odd to me. He had a bad season this year, but Miller is generally regarded as a good defender around the league. Not a team defensive guy, but man to man. If you're saying team defense, then, yeah, he's nothing special.

As far as not being a good rebounder, he averages almost 10 a game since he's been with the Kings. Brad's 9.3 rebounds per game this season was 3rd among centers behind, yep you guessed it -- Shaq and Ben Wallace.

Thats the thing. I used to watch Brad in Chicago and I swear he wasn't as crappy on D as he is now. He just needs to be more aggressive.

You can tell when he is on the court he is just trying everything possible to not commit a foul. In Chicago he was a reserve so it wasn't that big of a deal but I think a lot of his lacking on defense has more to do with not wanting to have to ride the pine in foul trouble.

 

[chelle]

I think VF is right. Our biggest flaw is that we have no real idea of our identity. I am VERY disappointed in how the Maloofs have treated Adleman this summer. If they wanted a new coach, they should have told him that they were looking. He should NOT have found out from the media. I am also concerned that with a probable lock-out and the draft coming in just 2 weeks, they still have not all met together to discuss next season. Adleman has not even talked to the Maloofs this summer even after all the Phil hoopla? Up until this year, one of the strengths of this team has been their cohesiveness. I no longer see that. Yes, we need many things.
1. A PF or center, depending on where Miller plays and if Tag can get into shape and out of RA's dog house.
2. Peja needs to be signed to an extension or traded this SUMMER.
3. We need an off guard, desperatly. As much as I like Evans and Martin, they are NOT ready to be starters on a playoff team.
4. The powers that be need to get a new coach or put their 100% solid support behind Adleman.
5. Defense must be the single biggest focus of improvement for all players involved.
6. Bibby needs to lead by word and deed or get out of the way for a new leader.

With all these needs, there is still one bigger.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand."
My biggest hope for this off season - that we get it together. Literally.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

I think we do have a above average PF, Brad Miller, what we lack is a physical Center...

 

[BigWaxer]

VF is right don't have to think about it...

IF no moves are made we will be lucky to make the playoff's next year.

 

[G_M]

VF is right don't have to think about it...

IF no moves are made we will be lucky to make the playoff's next year.

I completely disagree with that.

If the Kings went into next season with their current roster plus some small tweaks they would win 50-55 games. Assuming, several things.

1) Ostertag is in shape avoids and can play 15-20 effective
minutes if needed.

2) Bjax play at the same level he did prior to his injury

3) Defensive minded SG is added to the roster.

4) Darius is back or similar role player.


The problem is they would once again get spanked in the playoffs.

 

[hrdboild]

3. We need an off guard, desperatly. As much as I like Evans and Martin, they are NOT ready to be starters on a playoff team.
6. Bibby needs to lead by word and deed or get out of the way for a new leader.

I thought Evans did a better job the one game he played major minutes than Mobley did in that Seattle series.

Bibby does lead by deed. If you're referring to his poor playoff performance, every jumpershooter is going to have cold stretches. He was still passing the ball and making plays.

 

[chelle]

I thought Evans did a better job the one game he played major minutes than Mobley did in that Seattle series.

Bibby does lead by deed. If you're referring to his poor playoff performance, every jumpershooter is going to have cold stretches. He was still passing the ball and making plays.

Don't get me wrong. I think that Mike has proven that he is and can continue to be our leader. I have complete faith that he will do so again this season. What I meant by that comment is that he must improve in the areas (DEFENSE) that he said he would do this off season. If he does, I believe the others will follow. If not, I do not believe we will see much improvement in the others. He is the player whose performance I worry about the least.

I am also working on the assumtion that we will not have Mobley since he opted out, which I am not that upset about. However, I think Mo needs some more time coming off the bench before we can count on him as a solid starter. What about BJax being our starting 2 guard?

 

[allrightythen]

While I didn't mind the Webber trade, it was the final straw in completely changing the Kings identity. One of the problems was that no one knows even now what it was changed into. I like the players who make up the Kings current "core" but I think in order to be a championship contender a change needs to be made. I would not mind seeing two of them leave if it meant a real gamechanging type player was brought in. Its been said several times that the Kings are rebuilding but need a few minor tweeks, but i don't know if any amount of tweeking will be help enough to make a difference. If our core does stay the same, I think the PF spot is the most important with the SG spot a close second. The PF spot seems more important simply because I would think the Kings would want someone with some offense as well as defense, while the SG spot doesn't need to be all that offensive given our current roster.

 

[Bricklayer]

What center in the league can dribble? It's not something you look for in a 5.

The remark about his defense seems odd to me. He had a bad season this year, but Miller is generally regarded as a good defender around the league. Not a team defensive guy, but man to man. If you're saying team defense, then, yeah, he's nothing special.

As far as not being a good rebounder, he averages almost 10 a game since he's been with the Kings. Brad's 9.3 rebounds per game this season was 3rd among centers behind, yep you guessed it -- Shaq and Ben Wallace.

1) Defense - Brad is a flat out bad defender, something that was hinted at last year when our defense collapsed with him replacing Webb, but was sadly confirmed this past season when exactly what I described happened time and again ad nauseam. If you watched the games all season, there was no other possible conclusion. Players have absolutely no respect for his defensive capabilities, and he is not only ignored, but seems to be wearing some some sort of giant green light around his neck which seems to cause guys to get twice as aggressive in his presence and intentionally go right at him. Beyond the occasional surprise block, I can't remember the last time he actually altered somebody's shot. It is not coincidence that the Kings became a bad defensive team at the same time that he began to see major minutes (not all his fault either obviously). The play that finished our season this year was incredibly appropriate.

Now he's a big ole hoss, and frowns and grimaces and complains a lot. And I think that's where the deception lies. He LOOKS like he should at least be mean. But other than setting an occassional hard blindside pick, there are no bodies flying around in there, he's slow on rotations, and he couldn't challenge me on penetration. And man to man any player of his size or larger who feels active just devours him in the post and plays over and around him. While Mike is busy making heroes of the Stoudamires and Marburys of the league, Brad gets lit up by the Joel Pryzbillas, Chris Kamans and Jerome Jameses.

Before really watching him game to game with the Kings, I would have at least thought of him as a tough ole hick on defense, perhaps just remembering his tag teaming of Shaq with Oakley or what not. But I think its clear now that what we've had is his deficiencies were covered up by bigtime shotblockers etc. in O'Neal and Brand.

2) Rebounding -- did this analysis during the season. But 9.3 sounds fine until you realize that he plays more minutes than just about any other center in the league. Actually it is still "fine". But his per48 min numbers were a mediocre 12.0rpg, which ranked #51 of 113 centers in the league last year.

 

[AriesMar27]

Don't get me wrong. I think that Mike has proven that he is and can continue to be our leader. I have complete faith that he will do so again this season. What I meant by that comment is that he must improve in the areas (DEFENSE) that he said he would do this off season. If he does, I believe the others will follow. If not, I do not believe we will see much improvement in the others. He is the player whose performance I worry about the least.

I am also working on the assumtion that we will not have Mobley since he opted out, which I am not that upset about. However, I think Mo needs some more time coming off the bench before we can count on him as a solid starter. What about BJax being our starting 2 guard?

if we play a lot of zone defence... starting bobby would be nice and it would be 1 more reason to keep house.... trading thomas and corliss are big this off season... ive been pushing for a thomas/corlis for boozer trade since the day we got them....

i just pray that tag gets into shape and we can start miller at the 4, then just sub darius and skinner in for them which would be a smaller faster version of the same thing....

or... trade thomas for a sg and start skinner at center with brad at the 4... thats what detroit does... ben is 6'8 and rasheed is 7' subbing in darius and tag would be like switching the sizes....