Sacramento Kings

[John Galt]

well, at least I identify with the punch line - the R rated version that is: "...eff em all" (Vivek, PDA, Mully and #chillmuch Leslie for that matter)

 

[jaysutton2003]

Off topic, but I just watched a newscast from the last game of the season a couple years ago when the Maloof's were owners and we thought we were going to lose our team. I had an epiphany. Every time I get angry about the current progress (everyday since the firing), I go back and think of how lucky we are we have a team. Sometimes you have to take a step back to realize how lucky we really are.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Off topic, but I just watched a newscast from the last game of the season a couple years ago when the Maloof's were owners and we thought we were going to lose our team. I had an epiphany. Every time I get angry about the current progress (everyday since the firing), I go back and think of how lucky we are we have a team. Sometimes you have to take a step back to realize how lucky we really are.

smells like horse manure around here. a new member reminding us how lucky we are to still have the team. .. take the mask off gerbil

 

[jaysutton2003]

smells like horse manure around here. a new member reminding us how lucky we are to still have the team. .. take the mask off gerbil

I completely disagree with the front office and know we should have kept malone as the coach as all of the players bought into the new defensive half court winning system. We are still lucky to have a team in sac. There is no denying that fact. I'm new to posting but have been on this site for many years.

 

[Swaze]

smells like horse manure around here. a new member reminding us how lucky we are to still have the team. .. take the mask off gerbil

I know he even has the audacity to form complete sentences with capitalization and everything! This is clearly the sign of an educated man, most likely a plant from the front office.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Look at Pau Gasol. Guy is hoopin this year and just went out and dropped 46pts 18reb on the Bucks tonight.....

Back in LA, Mike D'Antoni had the dude hangin out on the perimeter shooting jumpers all day long and he eventually found himself on the bench because he wasn't good enough at run n gun....

sound familiar?

 

[itzcoatl]

It's not about "getting along". It's about differing philosophies which were essentially polar opposites.

This isn't akin to two mechanics trying to figure out how to swap out the engine on a Mercedes and their personalities simply need to come together to get the job done. In that scenario, there's generally a right way and a wrong way to accomplish the task, which is pretty much by the book. The influence of differing opinion doesn't have the same impact on replacing a car engine as it does on building a team. But when it comes to building a team, or building a business, or a number of other endeavors, you need those with the most influence to be on the same page. Getting along really isn't a part of it. Disagreements are more than welcome, but they still need to work towards a common goal. It's getting their visions and goals to align, which won't happen if their philosophies are so far apart.

And when a coach and GM are hired with opposing philosophies, it falls on the owner, who hired them both rather than doing it how it's normally done and finding a GM who shares his vision and allowing him to follow suit and hire a coach who also shares that vision.

I disagree with that. I think differing philosophies among professionals is generally a good thing because it provides different perspectives and ways of combatting problems.

I'm not understanding the relevance of the mechanic example. But it seems that you are suggesting that it is ok to have different philosophies where there is only one correct way of accomplishing a task, but that you cannot have differing philosophies where there are multiple ways of accomplishing a task? If I have misunderstood, please let me know.

There are a myriad examples where healthy debate and different philosophies have led to good outcomes. Look at the founding of the United States where many different political views came together to form one of the most influential and powerful nations on the planet.

PDA and Malone had the opportunity to listen to eachother and to create a system that melded elements of both philosophies. How that would have worked, I can't say because that would have been up to both of them.

We still don't have full information as to the full nature of the dispute, but it would appear as though neither was willing to compromise or give credence to the other philosophy. that was the big issue: lack of open minds.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I would like for KingsFanGer to publicly state exactly why he supports/defends PDA. For me PDA is a dead man walking and so I find it fascinating that anyone could support keeping him around.

I do not support Pda. Honestly I don't understand, whatmakes you think that.
I only said, that there are reasons for the Malone firing, that could be viable (pls note that I didn't write they are viable) . Those reasons were all regarding our offense. So if the Malone firing was a basketball related decision, the person who executed the firing has fallen for the assumption, that our defense wouldn't suffer - which is clearly a misconception, wether this is because of players not buying in, lack of leadership, lack of effort or subpar defensive gameplans and schemes.
The offense on the other hand was one dimensional under Malone.
The contending teams all play a different brand of offense - way more fluid, more ballmovement, more screens, quicker and constant player movement - which to me, not familiar with the stat "pace", is described best with a well paced fluid offense.
Unlike the majority of the users I believe, that this is the offensive vision PDA has in mind.
And I support this vision, cause I personally believe, that an offense completely reliant on one player won't be successful in the long run.
All those statements that PDA or Vivek or Mullin want to turn us into Denver or GS are not convincing me.
The major problem right now is not the vision itself, it's the proper execution of this vision and PDA clearly failed to do that.
Therefore I don't support PDA and I don't support the Malone firing, cause correct Vision or not, it didn't lead to a different offensive approach and messed up our defense.

 

[Pace]

Off topic, but I just watched a newscast from the last game of the season a couple years ago when the Maloof's were owners and we thought we were going to lose our team. I had an epiphany. Every time I get angry about the current progress (everyday since the firing), I go back and think of how lucky we are we have a team. Sometimes you have to take a step back to realize how lucky we really are.

That's a good way to look at it.

 

[Kingster]

I'm going to point out why most of my ire is directed at PDA more than Vivek.
This isn't to change your opinion or anything, but just so you see my reasoning.

After Malone was fired Vivek did an interview with News 10. After I heard the interview I was so upset I almost wanted to see the Kings lose every game for the rest of the season.
What upset me was the fact that Vivek seemed to believe that firing Malone and having Corbin as coach was going to get us more wins this season.
And the thing is, I believe that HE believed that to be true.

Now anyone who has watched a ton of basketball could tell you that firing Malone would crush this team and that the only way that maybe the team could be better is if you brought in a veteran winning coach, such as Karl.

But Vivek seemed to believe that the team would be better with-out Malone and with Corbin.

So to me it comes down to a simple question: Why would he believe that?

The only answer I can come to is that PDA and Mullin convinced him that this was the case and that if Malone was fired quickly enough and Corbin installed as soon as possible the Kings would have the best chance to make the play-offs.
We all know that Malone and PDA had philosophical differences, so I understand why PDA would want Malone fired. (Because if Malone went to the playoffs with his style Malone might have been able to win in a power struggle against PDA later down the line)

So...Vivek is a new owner and new to basketball. The guys he trusts sold him on the fact that Malone had to go...and he went with them. And PDA mostly wanted Malone gone because he figured that eventually it would come down between Malone and him and he had to take advantage of the Cousins illness situation as quickly as possible.

So Vivek green-lighted the firing, but I think he had to really be talked into it...and that falls squarely on the shoulders of PDA.

So I look at Vivek as un-informed and PDA as the person who did the hard work to convince him to torpedo the season.

If we find out later down he line that the firing of Malone was mostly a decision by Vivek I will have no problem shifting the blame to him...it's just that right now I believe it is mostly PDA.

I want to throw a couple of other variables into the speculative equation. First, I think it's fairly well documented that Vivek is predisposed to the running game (pace, etc.). In that respect, he wasn't a blank slate. He in fact hired PDA with that predisposition. Yes, he also hired Malone, who is not that kind of coach, but that decision was made in a time-pressured situation and Vivek felt he needed to hire him because he had some, but not all the characteristics he wanted as a coach. Reading between the lines, Malone probably wouldn't have been the hire if he Vivek in fact had several months to consider the decision. So it seems reasonable to believe that PDA's influence over Vivek had as much to do with working with, preying on, manipulating, Vivek's already established biases. (Pick the verb of choice).

 

[dude12]

I do not support Pda. Honestly I don't understand, whatmakes you think that.
I only said, that there are reasons for the Malone firing, that could be viable (pls note that I didn't write they are viable) . Those reasons were all regarding our offense. So if the Malone firing was a basketball related decision, the person who executed the firing has fallen for the assumption, that our defense wouldn't suffer - which is clearly a misconception, wether this is because of players not buying in, lack of leadership, lack of effort or subpar defensive gameplans and schemes.
The offense on the other hand was one dimensional under Malone.
The contending teams all play a different brand of offense - way more fluid, more ballmovement, more screens, quicker and constant player movement - which to me, not familiar with the stat "pace", is described best with a well paced fluid offense.
Unlike the majority of the users I believe, that this is the offensive vision PDA has in mind.
And I support this vision, cause I personally believe, that an offense completely reliant on one player won't be successful in the long run.
All those statements that PDA or Vivek or Mullin want to turn us into Denver or GS are not convincing me.
The major problem right now is not the vision itself, it's the proper execution of this vision and PDA clearly failed to do that.
Therefore I don't support PDA and I don't support the Malone firing, cause correct Vision or not, it didn't lead to a different offensive approach and messed up our defense.

Your comparing us to teams with the roster to run some of these offenses. None of those teams have Cousins or even a Cousins/Gay twosome. None of those teams have Cousins. Repeat, none of those teams have Cousins. And one of those contending teams is Memphis who we were more similar to....half court grind it out defensive team. They are successful because their roster and depth of roster is good and they play 2 the strengths of their big men which is not pushing the pace.

If you watched the Denver game, you saw us push the pace about as well as we have all year and we got blown off the court in the second half.

 

[dude12]

I want to throw a couple of other variables into the speculative equation. First, I think it's fairly well documented that Vivek is predisposed to the running game (pace, etc.). In that respect, he wasn't a blank slate. He in fact hired PDA with that predisposition. Yes, he also hired Malone, who is not that kind of coach, but that decision was made in a time-pressured situation and Vivek felt he needed to hire him because he had some, but not all the characteristics he wanted as a coach. Reading between the lines, Malone probably wouldn't have been the hire if he Vivek in fact had several months to consider the decision. So it seems reasonable to believe that PDA's influence over Vivek had as much to do with working with, preying on, manipulating, Vivek's already established biases. (Pick the verb of choice).

Probably....but why couldn't these knuckleheads fire Malone in the offseason instead of when they did....and that's a rhetorical question. A coach is fired when he's failing or when he's lost the team. Bizarro world. If PDA is not fired within 12 months, we are screwed.

 

[Kingster]

Probably....but why couldn't these knuckleheads fire Malone in the offseason instead of when they did....and that's a rhetorical question. A coach is fired when he's failing or when he's lost the team. Bizarro world. If PDA is not fired within 12 months, we are screwed.

I think that's where emotion must have come into it. They wanted to influence Malone to coach their way; he refused. Firing Malone in mid-season doesn't connote a well thought out plan. It connotes that Malone po'd Vivek and/or PDA when he refused to coach the game the way they wanted it coached and dismissed analytics in favor of defense in his press conference.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Your comparing us to teams with the roster to run some of these offenses. None of those teams have Cousins or even a Cousins/Gay twosome. None of those teams have Cousins. Repeat, none of those teams have Cousins. And one of those contending teams is Memphis who we were more similar to....half court grind it out defensive team. They are successful because their roster and depth of roster is good and they play 2 the strengths of their big men which is not pushing the pace.

If you watched the Denver game, you saw us push the pace about as well as we have all year and we got blown off the court in the second half.

I didn't compare the Kings to any team. I wrote about very general visions how to set up a successful NBA offense. And i didn't even mention running the floor or pushing the pace - if you want to restrict this term to the actual statistic of posessions per game.
But hey if you really want to discuss about this - can you please answer me, why roleplayers like Humphries or Speights (just to name a few) are able to adapt to a more fluid offense without major problems? Is this because of coaching?
Why do role players actually role to the rim on those teams i mentioned? Why do they get open looks time and time again? Why is the amount of easy baskets out of ball movement and player movement higher on those teams, from my personal viewpoint?

And the fact, that we have Cousins doesn't mean, that we have to use him the way we do now - like running him into double and triple teams, while our players are just bystanders watching him. The fact we have Gay doesn't mean we need him to throw up bad, forced shots from the dribble all the time.
Did you notice how often Cousins sets screens and rolls or pops out and is overlooked by anyone not named Collinson (actually you could see him barking at Rudy for that a couple of times or shaking his head on Ben)? Did you notice how Ben or Nik are still standing in those corners without any successfull backscreens?
I repeat - this is not about turning our lowpost oriented Kings into Golden State.
This is about finding our own personal way to get everyone on our roster more involved into the offense. It's perfectly fine to play through Cousins in the low- or high post, but this can't be our only viable offensive strategy moving forward, cause teams will try to take away this option and we already know, what will happen if they are successful. Why does Cousins commit that many turnovers?

And to repeat it once again - Memphis isn't similar to us in my opinion. Memphis is always mentioned here, because of their defense and the fact they have a decent Center and i totally agree, that you can be a defensive minded team and be successful. But the offense of Memphis is not similar to the way we run our offense. If we would run our offense the way Memphis does, you wouldn't see any criticism from me around here.
And to prempt the usual argument - yes i know that Memphis has developed chemistry and i know they have different players. But the Kings need to start somewhere and the FO believed after 1 full season, 1 full training camp and a couple of games into this season, that Malone wouldn't be able to adress our weaknesses in ball- and playermovement on the offensive end.
And i tend to agree on this.
But this doesn't mean, that I support PDA or am fine with the firing, like it actually took place.
I am not! As long as the weaknesses of our squad aren't fixed and we watch our team regress on the defensive end the whole affair was a giant failure and I can understand why some fans call for the head of PDA.

 

[funkykingston]

Since Malone was fired, the Kings have had the same record as the Lakers at 4-8. That's against one of the softer stretches of the schedule (7 home games including the Lakers and the Knicks, road games against Brooklyn, Boston and Minnesota) and with only one of those wins (OKC) being convincing. The Knicks are now the worst team in the NBA and it took the Kings OT to beat them at home.

If things don't change I wouldn't be surprised to see the Kings finish with a worse record than the Lakers. A month ago that thought never even entered my mind.

I can have a rational discussion about Malone's shortcomings as a coach especially as it pertains to the offensive end of the floor. I was of the opinion that Malone and the team would grow together and improvements would be made to the offensive as time went on. But it's also entirely possible that Malone just isn't a good offensive coach and could never be the guy to take the Kings to the next level. I can't pretend to know the answer.

But the issue to me isn't whether Mike Malone is a great coach or not. The issue is whether firing him 24 games in was the best move for the team. Clearly it wasn't.

I didn't expect much out of D'Alessandro's appearance on KHTK. But the one thing I was really hoping to hear from him was any logical reason for firing Malone in December instead of at the end of the season. And obviously I left disappointed.

What do I really want as a Kings fan? Not much. I want a team that competes each night and that I can be proud of. And I want a front office that gives me the sense they know what they are doing.

 

[chief bromden]

Off topic, but I just watched a newscast from the last game of the season a couple years ago when the Maloof's were owners and we thought we were going to lose our team. I had an epiphany. Every time I get angry about the current progress (everyday since the firing), I go back and think of how lucky we are we have a team. Sometimes you have to take a step back to realize how lucky we really are.

I agree, thanks for the post. It sucks to watch this team right now, but I'm glad they are still in Sacramento and have Cousins.

 

[John Galt]

smells like horse manure around here. a new member reminding us how lucky we are to still have the team. .. take the mask off gerbil

Well new member "Pace" liked the post from new member "jaysutton2003". More condescension from Leslie and friends - we're on to this one and it is pretty insulting.

 

[Tetsujin]

Off topic, but I just watched a newscast from the last game of the season a couple years ago when the Maloof's were owners and we thought we were going to lose our team. I had an epiphany. Every time I get angry about the current progress (everyday since the firing), I go back and think of how lucky we are we have a team. Sometimes you have to take a step back to realize how lucky we really are.

My house is burning but, heck, at least I have enough money to pay off the mortgage in ten years!

 

[206Fan]

Please speak for yourself. I've gone over Pete's resume before. Its an educated man's resume, but there is no intimidating brilliance indicated mandating kowtowing.

Now Vivek may be brilliant, at least in his fields. But then again we may be finding out the limitations of brilliance overapplied due to hubris.

Not aware if some of us here had over 15 years of inside basketball knowledge. My mistake.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That's cool; it turns out that D'Alessandro doesn't, either. And, either way, it doesn't translate to being smarter. You know who has "over 15 years of inside basketball knowledge"? Chris Mullin. Not even the apologists would try to argue that he's that smart.

Having "inside basketball knowledge" has **** all to do with being smart. It just means that you're connected.

 

[206Fan]

This is weak this isn't the first time a coach was there before a GM. Toronto was the same way and Casey was allegedly gonna be fired. They started winning and there GM adjusted and kept him. He didn't do sneaky bull poopoo like fire him when your star is hurt. It's simple we were winning PDA needed to grow up and build around they way we were playing. Not act like a little *****. What GM do you know that would fire someone simply because of style of play. He said winning didn't matter it's about style. Dudes a *****.

If they didn't get along behind closed doors, do you think he'd tell us?? They just didn't get along and it didn't work.
It isn't just simply because of different style of play..... They're not going to tell us other reasons.

 

[206Fan]

That's cool; it turns out that D'Alessandro doesn't, either. And, either way, it doesn't translate to being smarter. You know who has "over 15 years of inside basketball knowledge"? Chris Mullin. Not even the apologists would try to argue that he's that smart.

Having "inside basketball knowledge" has **** all to do with being smart. It just means that you're connected.

I meant smarter in basketball knowledge. I thought it was obvious since I was talking about being a basketball general manager??

 

[fansinceday1]

Look at Pau Gasol. Guy is hoopin this year and just went out and dropped 46pts 18reb on the Bucks tonight.....

Back in LA, Mike D'Antoni had the dude hangin out on the perimeter shooting jumpers all day long and he eventually found himself on the bench because he wasn't good enough at run n gun....

sound familiar?

Why do you complain so much? Can't you just be satisfied that we have a team? (sarc)

 

[206Fan]

Let me get this straight, you wanted our GM and Coach to act like adults because they are, but our players can act like kids even though they're adults?

At what point do you all think it should be ok to finally hold the players accountably? Lack of effort contributes to the majority of our loses.

 

[jaysutton2003]

Well new member "Pace" liked the post from new member "jaysutton2003". More condescension from Leslie and friends - we're on to this one and it is pretty insulting.

Member since March of 2006. New to posting not new to the site. Thanks.

 

[fansinceday1]

Since Malone was fired, the Kings have had the same record as the Lakers at 4-8. That's against one of the softer stretches of the schedule (7 home games including the Lakers and the Knicks, road games against Brooklyn, Boston and Minnesota) and with only one of those wins (OKC) being convincing. The Knicks are now the worst team in the NBA and it took the Kings OT to beat them at home.

If things don't change I wouldn't be surprised to see the Kings finish with a worse record than the Lakers. A month ago that thought never even entered my mind.

I can have a rational discussion about Malone's shortcomings as a coach especially as it pertains to the offensive end of the floor. I was of the opinion that Malone and the team would grow together and improvements would be made to the offensive as time went on. But it's also entirely possible that Malone just isn't a good offensive coach and could never be the guy to take the Kings to the next level. I can't pretend to know the answer.

But the issue to me isn't whether Mike Malone is a great coach or not. The issue is whether firing him 24 games in was the best move for the team. Clearly it wasn't.

I didn't expect much out of D'Alessandro's appearance on KHTK. But the one thing I was really hoping to hear from him was any logical reason for firing Malone in December instead of at the end of the season. And obviously I left disappointed.

What do I really want as a Kings fan? Not much. I want a team that competes each night and that I can be proud of. And I want a front office that gives me the sense they know what they are doing.

If anyone doubts this please go back to the earlier game threads. We were happy to see a team that had a chance to win each night. They were competing and they were a team. Thats all I want to see. Thats it.

 

[206Fan]

If anyone doubts this please go back to the earlier game threads. We were happy to see a team that had a chance to win each night. They were competing and they were a team. Thats all I want to see. Thats it.

Why is it that the team stopped competing? Because Malone was fired? Such a terrible excuse for players who are paid millions to play the sport they all love. Moving on is difficult, but if you aren't willing to go out there and compete every night, you shouldn't see any of the floor.

 

[sdballer]

I meant smarter in basketball knowledge. I thought it was obvious since I was talking about being a basketball general manager??

Isaiah Thomas was a gm. So was David Kahn. Etc

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I meant smarter in basketball knowledge. I thought it was obvious since I was talking about being a basketball general manager??

Well, there you go with your faulty premises, again. There's no rational reason to conflate having "inside" knowledge with being actually knowledgeable about basketball. David Kahn has nearly twenty years of "inside" basketball knowledge, and he might be "real world" smart, but he's a ****ing idiot when it comes to basketball. Kevin McHale, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, Ernie Grunfeld... I could give myself a cramp typing names of all the people who have years and years of experience and "inside" knowledge who are very bad at their jobs, and have shown no evidence at all that they're particularly knowledgeable about basketball.

D'Alessandro having "inside" knowledge proves that he has access to information that the rest of us don't; that's it. If he's bad at processing and interpreting that data, which is my contention, then he is not, in fact, smarter about basketball than the rest of us.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Let me get this straight, you wanted our GM and Coach to act like adults because they are, but our players can act like kids even though they're adults?

At what point do you all think it should be ok to finally hold the players accountably? Lack of effort contributes to the majority of our loses.

what do you want the players to do? They have no leadership, no direction, nobody holding them accountable. They were headed in the right direction and the rug was pulled out from under them. They are confused and betrayed.

they are out there playing unorganized pickup ball against well coached NBA teams. What do you expect?