Sacramento Kings

[206Fan]

Well, there you go with your faulty premises, again. There's no rational reason to conflate having "inside" knowledge with being actually knowledgeable about basketball. David Kahn has nearly twenty years of "inside" basketball knowledge, and he might be "real world" smart, but he's a ****ing idiot when it comes to basketball. Kevin McHale, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, Ernie Grunfeld... I could give myself a cramp typing names of all the people who have years and years of experience and "inside" knowledge who are very bad at their jobs, and have shown no evidence at all that they're particularly knowledgeable about basketball.

D'Alessandro having "inside" knowledge proves that he has access to information that the rest of us don't; that's it. If he's bad at processing and interpreting that data, which is my contention, then he is not, in fact, smarter about basketball than the rest of us.

Faulty premise? Is that an insult? So Pete is a dumbass for resigning Cousins to a max? He's a dumbass for S&T an overpaid Reke for valuable pieces? He's a dumbass for trading pieces for a starting SF, one that we haven't had since Artest in the 07 season?? Pete has done quiet knowledgable things as a GM. He's not a dumbass like Khan.. He drafted Ben who's looking bright as a 3&D guy. Don't say he's the BPA, because if he was, why did 6 other teams pass up on him?

Pete has done a solid job as a GM, whether anyone wants to admit it. He found us one of the best back up PGs in the nba and signed him to a good contract.. Ramon Sessions, but he's stunk it up for our team. He was better thanCollison as a backup last year.

The only terrible move that Pete has done was fire Malone.

I bet most people hated the acquisition of a chucking Rudy Gay.

Pete is a decent GM.

I'm not protecting him, I'm just pointing the obvious goods he's done as our GM. Since a lot of people like to act like he's done nothing.

 

[dude12]

Saying PDA has done a solid job was a good answer about a month ago or so...this one move puts him in really crapty company. This one move has completely ruined the season....and that's about 58 games of the season that remained. He or they thought it was going to be a great move.

It's completely wasted another year of our franchise center and others, ripped hope and enthusiasm from the majority of the fan base, potentially has caused other potential future FA's to not come here because we don't have our crap together. I could go on but one gets the point. This ill-timed move trumps all his other moves and makes him a bad, bad GM right now. He and Vivek need to hire a guy like Karl to counter this crapty move....that would go a long ways in the eyes of a majority of the fan base and the players.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Faulty premise? Is that an insult? So Pete is a dumbass for resigning Cousins to a max? He's a dumbass for S&T an overpaid Reke for valuable pieces? He's a dumbass for trading pieces for a starting SF, one that we haven't had since Artest in the 07 season?? Pete has done quiet knowledgable things as a GM. He's not a dumbass like Khan.. He drafted Ben who's looking bright as a 3&D guy. Don't say he's the BPA, because if he was, why did 6 other teams pass up on him?

Pete has done a solid job as a GM, whether anyone wants to admit it. He found us one of the best back up PGs in the nba and signed him to a good contract.. Ramon Sessions, but he's stunk it up for our team. He was better thanCollison as a backup last year.

The only terrible move that Pete has done was fire Malone.

I bet most people hated the acquisition of a chucking Rudy Gay.

Pete is a decent GM.

I'm not protecting him, I'm just pointing the obvious goods he's done as our GM. Since a lot of people like to act like he's done nothing.

Most people could argue that a lot of Pete's "solid" moves were blind luck....

Rudy Gay? Hit or miss acquisition. And i'll give you a hint as to the two biggest reasons Rudy Gay in Sacramento has worked. One is DeMarcus Cousins, the other was Michael Malone

Dumping Isaiah and rolling with Collison? Looked like a bad move to most. Luckily for Pete, Derren fit in. But a smarter GM would probably have kept Isaiah around as the backup....

which leads me to my next point, RAMON SESSIONS. Pete brought him in. He's been horrible. Yet Pete still tries to force him on us.

Derrick Williams, Pete still insists is a great pickup...........

Letting Robin Lopez go to Portland when he could have been coming here in the Tyreke S&T. Yep, brilliant one there Pete.......

Now he's out here firing a coach that has ALL the players love/respect, most importantly the Kings 3 best players. He's handling business like a freakin amatuer (letting players find out about major team news on social media), etc

the list goes on and on. Pete has made a decent move or two, but even a broken watch is right twice a day. The guy has no track record and he's done more damage than good.

 

[macadocious]

206 - some of his moves have been good. The issue is he over values them. He admitted to this when he slipped up and basically said the fact that the Kings 2-18 record w/o Malone was a huge factor in his dismissal. He thinks the team without cousins is a pretty good team.

I'm not comparing Lebron to Cuz, but look at the Heat and Cavs without him, and they have other all star players.

 

[sdballer]

206 - some of his moves have been good. The issue is he over values them. He admitted to this when he slipped up and basically said the fact that the Kings 2-18 record w/o Malone was a huge factor in his dismissal. He thinks the team without cousins is a pretty good team.

I'm not comparing Lebron to Cuz, but look at the Heat and Cavs without him, and they have other all star players.

This. The lot damning part of his interview was his attitude around how the team had played without cousins. He honestly thinks a lineup of collison, Ben, gay, JT and hollins is good.

 

[randymoss1881]

What the hell there are people in here still discussing Malones short comings on offense. Who gives a **** dude was winning and the defense was going to be elite. You know who else had short comings on offense, the bulls/Memphis. He was in his 1st coachibg job don't you think he would have improved in that area jeez. The offense can be blamed on PDA where the hell are our shooters at? Get some shooters around Gay/DMC instead of going for josh smith/DWill.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Faulty premise? Is that an insult?

No, it's not an insult, it's an observation. There's nothing inherently insulting about it. With that said, I didn't say it to offend you, but if you took offense... :: shrug ::

And it is a faulty premise. In order to accept your premise, it requires one to believe that having inside basketball information automatically equates to being smart about basketball, and there's no rational reason to believe that that's true.

I'm not protecting him, I'm just pointing the obvious goods he's done as our GM. Since a lot of people like to act like he's done nothing.

I don't owe Pete D'Alessandro the benefit of the doubt, and I don't believe he deserves a free pass. The trouble with the "obvious goods he's done" is that they were obvious. He hasn't made any moves that the majority of the fan base was against, and then we had to come back and eat crow. It doesn't take inside knowledge or basketball smarts to sign DeMarcus Cousins to an extension. If you dropped out of school in the tenth grade, but have watched the Kings since 2010, you're qualified to know that we needed to extend Cousins. He doesn't get credit for that. Half the fan base still thinks that not resigning Evans was a bad move and, IYAM, time has yet to prove that that wasn't a mistake. I'll give him credit for salvaging the Evans trade by flipping Vasquez to get Gay, but I'm still not convinced that we got the best player in that whole exchange. I'm certainly not convinced that Gay at $14M is better than Evans at $11M.

I'll get off D'Alessandro when he makes more than one great move that couldn't have been seen coming by a middle school drop out.

 

[jdbraver]

No, it's not an insult, it's an observation. There's nothing inherently insulting about it. With that said, I didn't say it to offend you, but if you took offense... :: shrug ::

And it is a faulty premise. In order to accept your premise, it requires one to believe that having inside basketball information automatically equates to being smart about basketball, and there's no rational reason to believe that that's true.


I don't owe Pete D'Alessandro the benefit of the doubt, and I don't believe he deserves a free pass. The trouble with the "obvious goods he's done" is that they were obvious. He hasn't made any moves that the majority of the fan base was against, and then we had to come back and eat crow. It doesn't take inside knowledge or basketball smarts to sign DeMarcus Cousins to an extension. If you dropped out of school in the tenth grade, but have watched the Kings since 2010, you're qualified to know that we needed to extend Cousins. He doesn't get credit for that. Half the fan base still thinks that not resigning Evans was a bad move and, IYAM, time has yet to prove that that wasn't a mistake. I'll give him credit for salvaging the Evans trade by flipping Vasquez to get Gay, but I'm still not convinced that we got the best player in that whole exchange. I'm certainly not convinced that Gay at $14M is better than Evans at $11M.

I'll get off D'Alessandro when he makes more than one great move that couldn't have been seen coming by a middle school drop out.

Gay is better than tyreke. And enough to make up for the salary dif.

 

[captain bill]

Without rehashing the points that we can argue ad nauseum, I'll just say this:

Both PDA and Mike Malone have shown some shortcomings over the last season and half, but, for a rookie HC/GM combo, they were doing a fantastic job. Maybe Pete cared more about offense and Mike cared more about defense, but whether they would see eye to eye in having a talk about basketball philosophy over a coffee, it's pretty clear that Pete was good at making creative moves and Mike was good at molding the players that Pete got into the vision that Mike had on the floor.

More significantly, I am very concerned about Vivek as an owner moving forward. He made his money as an engineer, not a manager. He knows how to build and get his hands dirty, not necessarily recognizing talent and letting it do it's thing. He is obviously terrible at conflict management. Regardless of philosophy or personality or style or whatever, any owner worth his salt would have stopped the Malone firing. And that's the bottom line for me, no matter what was said or done behind closed doors.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Well new member "Pace" liked the post from new member "jaysutton2003". More condescension from Leslie and friends - we're on to this one and it is pretty insulting.

As jaysutton2003 pointed out, member since 2006. Obviously not a sock puppet. Pace's IP address indicates that they are posting from...well, they can tell you where if they want, but nowhere near California. Also very unlikely to be a sock puppet.

I think treating new posters like this is extremely disrespectful and reflects poorly on our site.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Gay is better than tyreke. And enough to make up for the salary dif.

I do not believe that this is axiomatic. Given the salary differential, it's subjective, at best.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

As jaysutton2003 pointed out, member since 2006. Obviously not a sock puppet. Pace's IP address indicates that they are posting from...well, they can tell you where if they want, but nowhere near California. Also very unlikely to be a sock puppet.

I think treating new posters like this is extremely disrespectful and reflects poorly on our site.

I haven't agreed with much you've had to say in the last two months, but I'll co-sign this, one hundred percent.

 

[fansinceday1]

what do you want the players to do? They have no leadership, no direction, nobody holding them accountable. They were headed in the right direction and the rug was pulled out from under them. They are confused and betrayed.

they are out there playing unorganized pickup ball against well coached NBA teams. What do you expect?

Exactly.
I really don't get why some people just don't get this. I don't care what business your in, if there is no leadership chaos ensues.

 

[John Galt]

As jaysutton2003 pointed out, member since 2006. Obviously not a sock puppet. Pace's IP address indicates that they are posting from...well, they can tell you where if they want, but nowhere near California. Also very unlikely to be a sock puppet.

I think treating new posters like this is extremely disrespectful and reflects poorly on our site.

Cap'n/Slim/Jay: I apologize (I still think it is possible that Pace is a spoof)

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Exactly.
I really don't get why some people just don't get this. I don't care what business your in, if there is no leadership chaos ensues.

I do feel that it's important to acknowledge, however, that there is a disconnect happening here. I wouldn't say that these guys necessarily disagree with the premise of the importance of leadership but, apparently, they have a fundamental disagreement about who the leader actually was.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Cap'n/Slim/Jay: I apologize (I still think it is possible that Pace is a spoof)

[Modding]

I would like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to use the 'Report a Post' function, if you suspect someone of being a sock puppet or a troll, or otherwise violating the rules.

While we appreciate your desire to keep the debate honest on both sides, the 'junior modding' is not needed.

 

[randymoss1881]

I do not believe that this is axiomatic. Given the salary differential, it's subjective, at best.

And at the salary DMC/Gay/Evans are making could have had both no problem with Collison.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Exactly.
I really don't get why some people just don't get this. I don't care what business your in, if there is no leadership chaos ensues.

Yep. Imagine if a boss at your work that every employee respected and worked hard for was fired and then they made some random guy the temporary boss, you had no clue what the next step was, but you all KNEW he wasn't going to be the long term boss. You are still supposed to do your job, but do you think production in the work place might suffer for awhile?

 

[Chubbs]

That's a good way to look at it.

I'm not going to be guilted into silence.

This "we saved the team, so stfu" thing isn't going to work.

First, PDA had nothing to do with that.

Second, Vivek was late to the game himself. Opportunistic if anything.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

I'm not going to be guilted into silence.

This "we saved the team, so stfu" thing isn't going to work.

First, PDA had nothing to do with that.

Second, Vivek was late to the game himself. Opportunistic if anything.

It's now changed to "Look at the shiney new arena being built, so STFU"

 

[itzcoatl]

Please speak for yourself. I've gone over Pete's resume before. Its an educated man's resume, but there is no intimidating brilliance indicated mandating kowtowing.

Now Vivek may be brilliant, at least in his fields. But then again we may be finding out the limitations of brilliance overapplied due to hubris.

Yes this is a good point. Hell, other than the direct basketball experience I would say my resume is more impressive than pete's - r at least I went to a much better law school. Wikipedia says he went to Nova Southeastern University School of Law, which I had never heard of before and which doesn't seem to be in top 100 law schools. (Yeah US news is not the best evaluation, but it's probably OK here).

I'm willing to bet we have many board members here with more impressive educations.

 

[Chubbs]

Not aware if some of us here had over 15 years of inside basketball knowledge. My mistake.

Who is it that has 15 years basketball knowledge?

Cause it certainly isn't PDA or Vivek.

 

[John Galt]

[Modding]

I would like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to use the 'Report a Post' function, if you suspect someone of being a sock puppet or a troll, or otherwise violating the rules.

While we appreciate your desire to keep the debate honest on both sides, the 'junior modding' is not needed.

"junior modding" lol. we just have different ways of looking at things I wish you weren't so pointedly condescending toward me. If somebody has created a persona here, titled it Pace, and made a number of posts that are designed to mock the front office position in subtle way - my hat is off to him I think it is a clever gag if somebody is pulling it off. I'm not crying foul on the guy I'm winking at him. And if I've made a grammatical error or vocabulary error here too (i.e. libel vs slander), just let it slide man please.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

When it comes to running an NBA franchise, Basketball knowledge > Computer geek knowledge

 

[lawlman91]

What the hell there are people in here still discussing Malones short comings on offense. Who gives a **** dude was winning and the defense was going to be elite. You know who else had short comings on offense, the bulls/Memphis. He was in his 1st coachibg job don't you think he would have improved in that area jeez. The offense can be blamed on PDA where the hell are our shooters at? Get some shooters around Gay/DMC instead of going for josh smith/DWill.

To be fair, Malone helped D-Will become a better shooter. Remember when D-Will said that Malone told him to shoot, like, 10,000 threes a day? (or something like that) Just one of the ways Michael Malone made the most of this roster via development. Kind of sad to see him go at first but now I don't feel anything as much. Sometimes when I'm reminded of the team's earlier success I remember feeling hopeful and then a brief pang of sadness comes back. After that, back to apathy.

 

[funkykingston]

Why is it that the team stopped competing? Because Malone was fired? Such a terrible excuse for players who are paid millions to play the sport they all love. Moving on is difficult, but if you aren't willing to go out there and compete every night, you shouldn't see any of the floor.

Stopped competing? What does that mean? To me that's akin to one of my least favorite sports platitudes, "he/they wanted it more" which often takes the place of a more nuanced or comprehensive answer for an end result.

The Kings have definitely played a much worse brand of basketball over the last few weeks. How much of that is due to a decrease in effort? I don't know, but assigning it as the primarily or even only reason seems like specious logic to me. Essentially your argument is that a team who, after 24 games, was told their coach was fired because the team wasn't playing the right way should produce exactly the same results despite having to learn a new system during the season while playing for a coach that no one expects to be back next year?

D'Alessandro said that Corbin shouldn't be judged yet because Cousins is only "60%". And yet, you're having your 60% star center (who is 6'11" and 280 lbs by the way) play more minutes per game at a significantly higher pace than at the beginning of the season when he was ostensibly completely healthy and you think that will have better results? And if the players are seeing that the new "style" is costing them wins and the style the coach they liked was fired for playing was allowing them to compete how sold on the system can they be? Even if you want to compete, subconsciously it makes it very hard to give full effort if you don't agree with the direction you're being given and/or don't have any trust in the future of the organization you're a part of.

Just as an aside, not every player in the NBA loves playing basketball. I know it seems that it should be the case, but from a few conversations I've had over the years I can tell that it isn't.

 

[dude12]

I for one think that crapcanning the season the way they did makes our GM an idiot. That's not a solid move. That can't be denied. A chance for our players, many whom have never experienced NBA team success, a chance to experience first time success. What's the next move? When is the next move? Oh wait, lets just trust him. Oh wait, he's made other solid moves and we have a new arena being built....so lets turn the page. We will just have to put up with enduring this season as same as last year and the year before and the year before and the year before. Players need to be professional and move on....never mind that this was the first time Cuz and JT and Ben were experiencing some NBA success and they crapcanned that as not good enough. Rudy, forget that you re-upped because in big part due to Malone, just be professional and turn the page cause you get paid a lot of money. Collison, your getting another opportunity to be a starting PG and signed here in part because of Malone, and your succeeding like never before running the ship....but guess what, it's not good enough so Malone is gone and now you really need to get over it because your getting paid to do so.

Brrrrrrriiilllllliannnnntttttt move by the brain trust. Reallllly solid move because the team right now is so fun to watch. Now that is a GM I can get behind and support........said no one....or apparently there are a few of you supporting him.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

"junior modding" lol. we just have different ways of looking at things I wish you weren't so pointedly condescending toward me.

Condescending towards you? I wasn't even "talking" to you. The first thing you need to understand is that my post had nothing to do with you, specifically. When a mod makes an "official note" that quotes a post, it isn't necessarily about that post. Sometimes a member's post just happens to feature something that we want to address to everyone, and that was the case here.

Secondly, junior modding, i.e., telling other posters that they're not allowed to do such and such, is frowned upon. I'm not sure why you object to this policy.

 

[lawlman91]

As jaysutton2003 pointed out, member since 2006. Obviously not a sock puppet. Pace's IP address indicates that they are posting from...well, they can tell you where if they want, but nowhere near California. Also very unlikely to be a sock puppet.

I think treating new posters like this is extremely disrespectful and reflects poorly on our site.

As much as I would like to move forward a conspiracy where Vivek used TIBCO employees to hack into the site and change "user since" data and uses some strange proxy-something to make it seem like posts are coming from somewhere else... I'll assume the best, really. Not saying that they are trolls, but no matter where a person is from, or when a person started to become a member, trolls will be trolls. But aside that, welcome to the site, where we engage in debate filled with strawmen and circlejerk about the Kings whenever they win.

 

[k_dubb90]

Faulty premise? Is that an insult? So Pete is a dumbass for resigning Cousins to a max? He's a dumbass for S&T an overpaid Reke for valuable pieces? He's a dumbass for trading pieces for a starting SF, one that we haven't had since Artest in the 07 season?? Pete has done quiet knowledgable things as a GM. He's not a dumbass like Khan.. He drafted Ben who's looking bright as a 3&D guy. Don't say he's the BPA, because if he was, why did 6 other teams pass up on him?

Pete has done a solid job as a GM, whether anyone wants to admit it. He found us one of the best back up PGs in the nba and signed him to a good contract.. Ramon Sessions, but he's stunk it up for our team. He was better thanCollison as a backup last year.

The only terrible move that Pete has done was fire Malone.

I bet most people hated the acquisition of a chucking Rudy Gay.

Pete is a decent GM.

I'm not protecting him, I'm just pointing the obvious goods he's done as our GM. Since a lot of people like to act like he's done nothing.

I feel you on a few things but giving up reke for greivis Vasquez instead of robin Lopez was a bad idea, and overpaying rudy gay was better than overpaying for reke?
And you know we could have still had IT off the bench instead of sessions right?