Sacramento Kings to Seattle Rumors?
- Thread starter Kings4life23
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The City of Seattle passed an ordinance prohibiting the city from ever providing any public financing to a sports facility again. Any new facility would have to be outside the city limits unless financed 100% with private money. The Sonics did try to get a deal done outside the city and that failed, too. I just can't see any NBA team moving to Seattle any time soon, especially as long as Stern is around.
This was covered in an article with Joe, Gavin and Colleen. They met with them strictly for informational reasons to find out what mistakes were made in the process of losing the team.
They couldn't fathom selling the team. They said they aren't selling it, and it's not going anywhere. They do need a new arena, but they haven't planned any type of move.
They couldn't fathom selling the team. They said they aren't selling it, and it's not going anywhere. They do need a new arena, but they haven't planned any type of move.
Because some people argue that rumors are actually facts and evidence and believing anything the Maloofs have to say is blind fandom.
I know that the Maloofs would hate to sell the team. They hated selling the Rockets and it took a long time for the family to buy in again. On the other hand, I am well-aware that if a new arena deal doesn't come, and soon, they will be forced to move the team. Something I believe they would rather not do. If the team leaves, it won't be because the Maloofs wanted to move, it'll be because they were shown the door by Sacramento and another city threw down a giant welcome mat.
I know that the Maloofs would hate to sell the team. They hated selling the Rockets and it took a long time for the family to buy in again. On the other hand, I am well-aware that if a new arena deal doesn't come, and soon, they will be forced to move the team. Something I believe they would rather not do. If the team leaves, it won't be because the Maloofs wanted to move, it'll be because they were shown the door by Sacramento and another city threw down a giant welcome mat.
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That's a very cynical game you're playing there. It's not much different than claiming that Tom Cruise enjoys eating barbecued babies, and when he denies it, pointing out that anybody who would eat barbecued babies wouldn't admit it anyway. You'll forgive me if I don't find claims that the Maloofs are just lying particularly compelling.
Besides, if they really WERE trying to move the team, would you get quotes like this from Gavin? (Source Link)
I doubt it. If the Maloofs were seriously thinking about moving the team, Gavin would probably be a lot more guarded - and feel a lot more guilty - when talking about the possibility of a franchise in Vegas. Instead, he suddenly realizes at the end of his quote that he could be misinterpreted as wanting to move the Kings there. Sorry, but that does not look like the quote of a man lying through his teeth there.
Besides, if they really WERE trying to move the team, would you get quotes like this from Gavin? (Source Link)
I doubt it. If the Maloofs were seriously thinking about moving the team, Gavin would probably be a lot more guarded - and feel a lot more guilty - when talking about the possibility of a franchise in Vegas. Instead, he suddenly realizes at the end of his quote that he could be misinterpreted as wanting to move the Kings there. Sorry, but that does not look like the quote of a man lying through his teeth there.
Doc. Maybe you need to spend a little time in this thread. They've sized up at least three cities. But this was just just a coffee to talk about what happened in Seattle. There is no shot they sized up the largest open market for one NBA team. Right.
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?37959-The-11th-Hour
Second. Sure, they don't want to sell the team or the Palms. But that 350 million dollar loan coming due in March might force them to sell of a chunk of one or both.
You can quote spin while working with the cold hard facts ... like Kenna. That's the argument of a fan hoping for the best. Which is fair. It's not the most likely outcome or the strongest argument. But it's a good thing to hope for and not completely out of the question. To quote the spin as gospel and ignore the facts is nonsense.
Finally, all of the anti-Seattle debate is based primarily upon the argument of ... well they won't be getting a new arena there. Sure, that's true. Of course, they won't be getting a new arena in Sacramento, or Anaheim, or San Jose in the next 10 years- which are probably the 4 most likely homes for the Kings. Thus, the question is where they can make the most money over the next 10-15 years. While they have to pay money to move up front, you sell a lot of new gear over the first 5 years when you move to town ... which takes some of the sting off that 30 million.
The Kings have come out and said on the Rise Guys ... they aren't wed to owning their building any more. The most recent plan doesn't have that. Thus, it's a lot closer to apples to apples than people are letting on.
At this point, they and we should assume there isn't a Sacramento arena for the indefinite future. Knowing that ... where do they want to play. You can make an argument to put Sacramento on the top of the list. I just think that is a huge stretch.
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?37959-The-11th-Hour
Second. Sure, they don't want to sell the team or the Palms. But that 350 million dollar loan coming due in March might force them to sell of a chunk of one or both.
You can quote spin while working with the cold hard facts ... like Kenna. That's the argument of a fan hoping for the best. Which is fair. It's not the most likely outcome or the strongest argument. But it's a good thing to hope for and not completely out of the question. To quote the spin as gospel and ignore the facts is nonsense.
Finally, all of the anti-Seattle debate is based primarily upon the argument of ... well they won't be getting a new arena there. Sure, that's true. Of course, they won't be getting a new arena in Sacramento, or Anaheim, or San Jose in the next 10 years- which are probably the 4 most likely homes for the Kings. Thus, the question is where they can make the most money over the next 10-15 years. While they have to pay money to move up front, you sell a lot of new gear over the first 5 years when you move to town ... which takes some of the sting off that 30 million.
The Kings have come out and said on the Rise Guys ... they aren't wed to owning their building any more. The most recent plan doesn't have that. Thus, it's a lot closer to apples to apples than people are letting on.
At this point, they and we should assume there isn't a Sacramento arena for the indefinite future. Knowing that ... where do they want to play. You can make an argument to put Sacramento on the top of the list. I just think that is a huge stretch.
It's not the same. For your hypo, Tom would admit eating one baby last year. (San Jose). He would have already tried to buy a baby BBQ building (the Pond in Anaheim). And he would know how to get a BBQ baby in Vegas, and how things would work if the city voted to open a new baby BBQ store in that town.
They are kicking the tires on cities. They just are.
They are kicking the tires on cities. They just are.
Doesn't it make sense to maximize your leverage as an owner by indirectly expressing a willingness to move? I want the the Kings to stay in Sacramento but I'm pragmatic. All you need to do is look at K St., the riverfront and what's not happening at the railyard to realize how inept the city of Sacramento is regarding development.
I think the only way something will ever get done is if the team has another viable option which would force the powers involved to do something. Even then the existing plans are a reach. If you look at a history of the SF Giants I believe there are some similarities here.
The owner (Lurie) threatened to move the team after public financing votes failed. There was no support in San Jose or Santa Clara for a publicly financed stadium. While the Maloofs have not threatened to move the team at some point there may be no choice.
So, in the end the team is sold and the new owner builds a privately financed arena. SF did kick in a small amount of redevelopment money. No general fund money was spent. The financing was a combination of monies from: a bank loan, seat licensing, naming rights and the redevelopment money.
Will Kings will follow the same path?
I think the only way something will ever get done is if the team has another viable option which would force the powers involved to do something. Even then the existing plans are a reach. If you look at a history of the SF Giants I believe there are some similarities here.
The owner (Lurie) threatened to move the team after public financing votes failed. There was no support in San Jose or Santa Clara for a publicly financed stadium. While the Maloofs have not threatened to move the team at some point there may be no choice.
So, in the end the team is sold and the new owner builds a privately financed arena. SF did kick in a small amount of redevelopment money. No general fund money was spent. The financing was a combination of monies from: a bank loan, seat licensing, naming rights and the redevelopment money.
Will Kings will follow the same path?
You know what you think are all the facts. You cannot possibly know all the financial facts of the Maloof family decisions. You just can't. So the bottom line is you don't know what all the economic and other contingencies impinging on the Maloofs' decisions are. So you are taking what you do know and deciding what you think the outcome will be. Thta's spinning it your way. You may be right, but in reality you are just spinning the facts we do know to paint a picture of sure doom for the Kings in Sacramento.
Also, even though I'm a real pessimist, I tend not to always think people are lying. If I were the Maloofs and were already planning my move out of town, I sure wouldn't let on to that fact. However, I also wouldn't be trying so hard to say I absolutely don't
want to sell the team or move. I'd be much more likely to tone it down. They could just sit back and say next to nothing.
There is also a difference between cities courting owners and owners courting cities. The Kings are an obvious team to target for any city wanting a pro-sports team. I'm sure plenty of cities have talked to the Maloofs and offered options that the Maloofs will consider when the time comes. But you can't prove to me with any facts that the Maloofs are the initiators, with the possible exception of Seattle, which is not going to get an NBA team any time soon, if Stern has anything to say at all. I really don't consider Seattle a threat, so I do accept what the Maloofs are saying about the meeting.
Yes, we could lose the team to another city. Anybody who's paying any attention knows that. So what does examining all the supposed telltale signs and minutiae really mean? Nothing. Who cares about the debt coming due on the Palms or if the Maloofs are talking to any cities or if they do or don't want to sell part of the team? If no no new arena the team leaves at some point. That's all the facts I need to know. We'll know the Maloofs decision soon enough, likely. Then we'll have the only "fact" that matters. Anything else at this point is people trying to interpret bits and pieces of information and saying its proof of a clear path.
Also, even though I'm a real pessimist, I tend not to always think people are lying. If I were the Maloofs and were already planning my move out of town, I sure wouldn't let on to that fact. However, I also wouldn't be trying so hard to say I absolutely don't
want to sell the team or move. I'd be much more likely to tone it down. They could just sit back and say next to nothing.
There is also a difference between cities courting owners and owners courting cities. The Kings are an obvious team to target for any city wanting a pro-sports team. I'm sure plenty of cities have talked to the Maloofs and offered options that the Maloofs will consider when the time comes. But you can't prove to me with any facts that the Maloofs are the initiators, with the possible exception of Seattle, which is not going to get an NBA team any time soon, if Stern has anything to say at all. I really don't consider Seattle a threat, so I do accept what the Maloofs are saying about the meeting.
Yes, we could lose the team to another city. Anybody who's paying any attention knows that. So what does examining all the supposed telltale signs and minutiae really mean? Nothing. Who cares about the debt coming due on the Palms or if the Maloofs are talking to any cities or if they do or don't want to sell part of the team? If no no new arena the team leaves at some point. That's all the facts I need to know. We'll know the Maloofs decision soon enough, likely. Then we'll have the only "fact" that matters. Anything else at this point is people trying to interpret bits and pieces of information and saying its proof of a clear path.
This is getting downright silly. It appears a couple posters are willing to concede that the Kings are talking to other cities about relocating the team BUT the point is somehow diminished by who initiated the meeting. Really? Would matter to Cleveland that Baltimore contacted Art Model, but Model contacted Arizona. Only teams that are thinking about a move take that meeting. That’s my point. They are kicking the tires on other cities. It doesn’t matter who picks up the phone. The Kings were a “target to move” for almost a decade. They are now taking meetings. Do the math.
Kenna - No I don’t know all of the facts about the Maloofs money problems. I do know some, and I’ve used them to present the some of most logical and honest assessments of this arena mess. While you may view my opinions or conclusions as negative, it doesn’t matter - the facts indicate the situation is negative. The known facts speak for themselves. On many of these facts, the Maloofs have either refused to acknowledge them or misrepresented them. They did not sell the beer distributorship simply because it was a good price. Fans like the way that sounds, but it’s not true.
Your last post that I don’t have all the facts and my conclusions might be wrong. That’s true. However, your counter arguments often refuse to acknowledge most of the facts or draw a conclusion that’s a real stretch around them. That’s my point. And that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion, but on any other forum here – the facts win out. If I want to argue that Rubio is better than Evans, I will get put into my place. People will use numbers, past examples, honest assessments of what’s going on and logic. If I replied “Ok, you’re right … but I’m a Rubio fan so just allow me to have my take and don’t be so negative” some people would let me do it. But I don’t think most people would find it to be a strong argument.
I get why it’s “different” here – the stakes are so high that people want to look the other way. First, I don’t begrudge anybody that chose to do that. Really, I don’t. You are entitled to your opinion and to hold out all hope for the Kings staying … just don’t tell me the argument is as strong as mine. Like with Rubio, it’s just not. Like with Rubio, you are entitled to your opinion, but it’s a lesser opinion. And to that end, it’s not any different than any part of the forum. I’m not negative, if I say Evans will always be better than Rubio; nor can I prove its 100% true. But the facts show that it’s most likely true.
You are basically saying – if things don’t change they will have to move and we are running out of time, but I think they will stay for a while because they said they would. On the first, I agree. On the second, the facts show they are already considering a move, it’s probably in their best interest to go, and they might to be able to stay. In fact, you and I are really just arguing over when they will need to move. I’m saying 12-24 months. You say later, but won’t estimate when. That’s it. Really, it’s a dumb debate. We agree they want to stay and unless something breaks the fans’ way they will move.
Kenna - No I don’t know all of the facts about the Maloofs money problems. I do know some, and I’ve used them to present the some of most logical and honest assessments of this arena mess. While you may view my opinions or conclusions as negative, it doesn’t matter - the facts indicate the situation is negative. The known facts speak for themselves. On many of these facts, the Maloofs have either refused to acknowledge them or misrepresented them. They did not sell the beer distributorship simply because it was a good price. Fans like the way that sounds, but it’s not true.
Your last post that I don’t have all the facts and my conclusions might be wrong. That’s true. However, your counter arguments often refuse to acknowledge most of the facts or draw a conclusion that’s a real stretch around them. That’s my point. And that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion, but on any other forum here – the facts win out. If I want to argue that Rubio is better than Evans, I will get put into my place. People will use numbers, past examples, honest assessments of what’s going on and logic. If I replied “Ok, you’re right … but I’m a Rubio fan so just allow me to have my take and don’t be so negative” some people would let me do it. But I don’t think most people would find it to be a strong argument.
I get why it’s “different” here – the stakes are so high that people want to look the other way. First, I don’t begrudge anybody that chose to do that. Really, I don’t. You are entitled to your opinion and to hold out all hope for the Kings staying … just don’t tell me the argument is as strong as mine. Like with Rubio, it’s just not. Like with Rubio, you are entitled to your opinion, but it’s a lesser opinion. And to that end, it’s not any different than any part of the forum. I’m not negative, if I say Evans will always be better than Rubio; nor can I prove its 100% true. But the facts show that it’s most likely true.
You are basically saying – if things don’t change they will have to move and we are running out of time, but I think they will stay for a while because they said they would. On the first, I agree. On the second, the facts show they are already considering a move, it’s probably in their best interest to go, and they might to be able to stay. In fact, you and I are really just arguing over when they will need to move. I’m saying 12-24 months. You say later, but won’t estimate when. That’s it. Really, it’s a dumb debate. We agree they want to stay and unless something breaks the fans’ way they will move.
I'd agree on 12-24 months, Larry. I don't present any "facts," but I don't know what is going on behind the scenes any more than you do. The conclusions you decide to draw are as much a spin on the facts as anybody else's opinion. Maybe you're right, but right now it's still just a point of view. The fact that you don't believe anything the Maloofs' say is based on your opinion. Neither you nor I nor anyone else knows the truth or falsehood of what they say.
Every thing you point out about the Maloofs financial situation is based on your "interpretation" of what little we really know about their situation and what the real options are for the Maloof family. Speculate all you want, but what is the point? We really have no idea what the Maloofs will do about the Palms or the Kings yet. All I know is what's currently on the table for an arena. I know as much as has been published. I've read everything on every deal for a long time.
It's quite obvious the Maloofs have been hit pretty hard by the recession. It's a little surprising they would sell the beer distributorship before selling their interest in the Kings, actually. Beer is almost recession-proof. I also read all the unsubstantiated rumors constantly flying around, too. Do you know what their options are for repaying the $350 million? Maybe a bank refinances under better terms. Maybe they just extend the term and re-amortize the principal. Lenders have a lot ways to work with a borrower and believe me, most banks do not want to actually take over a property through foreclosure if there's any way to avoid it. What difference does it make to Kings fans anyway?
That's what you don't seem to understand. Nothing you say about the "facts" now are going to make one iota of difference to the outcome. The only relevant facts are Sacramento gets a new arena or it doesn't and the Kings leave town if the arena is not forthcoming really, really soon. All the rumors or little bits of information we have don't look good, but what does that matter either? You're right, this is a silly debate. The whole world is going to know when the Kings leave and that's when they put in the application to the NBA office in NY. All the debating or even projecting what's likely or maybe going to happen doesn't matter one damn bit. So it is a stupid argument.
Basically you have been saying the Kings are going to leave folks, so face it. Is there some reason you want to keep clubbing people over the head about it with all your predictions, speculations and guesses about what all the parties are going to do, even if it seems reasonable based on some information we do know? You don't need to. I got your point a long time ago. I even agree that the Kings most likely option will be to move and soon. So what's really left to talk about at this point? Might as well wait and see what actually unfolds as its happening at this point. This picking over every little possible clue or rumor is really silly.
We have the supposed schedule of deadlines. All we need to do is tick them off, until things fall apart and I have already agreed the state legislature is the likely stumbling block. We don't have long to wait. All we have to do is see if deadlines are met or not or whether parties agree to move forward at each step. It really is as simple as that. At each deadline we will know the actual fact at that point. I just don't need speculation at this point, when the actual facts of each step of the arena deal are going to appear on schedule. What can you add at this point that's going to matter half as much as what actually happens?
You seem bound and determined to make sure that stupid, blind Kings fans open their eyes and see the Kings are leaving. I'm one who would bet they are leaving. But you know, people are entitled to believe the team is staying until their not. You don't have any right to tell people they have to accept your way of thinking about where this is all headed, because their just being stupid if they don't. Actually, they are more right than you are. The team is staying until their not. Nobody has to resign themselves to that any sooner just because you think they should based on your logic.
Every thing you point out about the Maloofs financial situation is based on your "interpretation" of what little we really know about their situation and what the real options are for the Maloof family. Speculate all you want, but what is the point? We really have no idea what the Maloofs will do about the Palms or the Kings yet. All I know is what's currently on the table for an arena. I know as much as has been published. I've read everything on every deal for a long time.
It's quite obvious the Maloofs have been hit pretty hard by the recession. It's a little surprising they would sell the beer distributorship before selling their interest in the Kings, actually. Beer is almost recession-proof. I also read all the unsubstantiated rumors constantly flying around, too. Do you know what their options are for repaying the $350 million? Maybe a bank refinances under better terms. Maybe they just extend the term and re-amortize the principal. Lenders have a lot ways to work with a borrower and believe me, most banks do not want to actually take over a property through foreclosure if there's any way to avoid it. What difference does it make to Kings fans anyway?
That's what you don't seem to understand. Nothing you say about the "facts" now are going to make one iota of difference to the outcome. The only relevant facts are Sacramento gets a new arena or it doesn't and the Kings leave town if the arena is not forthcoming really, really soon. All the rumors or little bits of information we have don't look good, but what does that matter either? You're right, this is a silly debate. The whole world is going to know when the Kings leave and that's when they put in the application to the NBA office in NY. All the debating or even projecting what's likely or maybe going to happen doesn't matter one damn bit. So it is a stupid argument.
Basically you have been saying the Kings are going to leave folks, so face it. Is there some reason you want to keep clubbing people over the head about it with all your predictions, speculations and guesses about what all the parties are going to do, even if it seems reasonable based on some information we do know? You don't need to. I got your point a long time ago. I even agree that the Kings most likely option will be to move and soon. So what's really left to talk about at this point? Might as well wait and see what actually unfolds as its happening at this point. This picking over every little possible clue or rumor is really silly.
We have the supposed schedule of deadlines. All we need to do is tick them off, until things fall apart and I have already agreed the state legislature is the likely stumbling block. We don't have long to wait. All we have to do is see if deadlines are met or not or whether parties agree to move forward at each step. It really is as simple as that. At each deadline we will know the actual fact at that point. I just don't need speculation at this point, when the actual facts of each step of the arena deal are going to appear on schedule. What can you add at this point that's going to matter half as much as what actually happens?
You seem bound and determined to make sure that stupid, blind Kings fans open their eyes and see the Kings are leaving. I'm one who would bet they are leaving. But you know, people are entitled to believe the team is staying until their not. You don't have any right to tell people they have to accept your way of thinking about where this is all headed, because their just being stupid if they don't. Actually, they are more right than you are. The team is staying until their not. Nobody has to resign themselves to that any sooner just because you think they should based on your logic.
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Look, I’m not beating people over the head with negativity for the sake of doing it. (However, that seems to be a common refrain from some people when weak arguments bottom out.) When I reply, it’s because I’m trying to knock back nonsense with some logic. I’ve never claimed to be able to change the outcome. I’m just logically reading the tea leaves, and I’m saying my conclusions are more logical and fact based that yours.
For example, I started replying in this thread because people were basically throwing out – “No. They can’t be talking with Seattle, because they said they weren’t.” As we’ve hashed out in two threads, there is ample reason to believe they did – or will – meet with the same people to assess that market. Next, people were arguing “Well, they didn’t initiate the meeting.” Thus, I replied.
Frankly, you are all of the board on this. Over the course of several threads, you’ve now agreed the convergence plan will most likely fail, the team is gone within 2 years, and they are probably moving. This is my conclusion but not my purpose for posting. When other posters or I start dicing up where we are at in this process and why it’s happening, your replies contradict those same conclusions and you’re basically arguing they will stay here indefinitely because they said they would. For example, in the “11th Hour,” I made the point of “Guess, what folks. They are kicking the tires on other cities, and this may go faster than we think.” You responded with the problems in those cities and claimed the relocation fee might be prohibitive. You later concede those problems aren’t going to be roadblocks, and the most logical conclusion is apparent. One of them is getting the team. But that’s not the way your replies read. While it’s not your purpose or intent, the posts further the spin by the local media that the team will stay for the indefinite future because the other markets are worse. (Which is why I reply.)
There are some people that enjoy reading this, but most fans don’t wade into this topic. If you just can’t bear to read my negativity or speculation … then don’t.
But just like when people throw out non-sense 3 for 1 trades or completely mischaracterize a player’s game, you get called out on it. When you contradict yourself or throw out half baked roadblocks, I usually don’t respond. Lately, we’ve taken every chance and started to break down each other’s intent (talk about speculation) But I’m done with this devolving cycle. This isn’t what I came here to post or what people come here to read. When news comes up, I’ll chime in and I’m sure we’ll have different takes on this, but I’m done with this quibbling and squabbling. Follow suit, whack away, or run amuck. I don’t care. I’ve sufficiently made my point on my issue with your posts.
fnordius – thanks for trying to break that up with a great post.
For example, I started replying in this thread because people were basically throwing out – “No. They can’t be talking with Seattle, because they said they weren’t.” As we’ve hashed out in two threads, there is ample reason to believe they did – or will – meet with the same people to assess that market. Next, people were arguing “Well, they didn’t initiate the meeting.” Thus, I replied.
Frankly, you are all of the board on this. Over the course of several threads, you’ve now agreed the convergence plan will most likely fail, the team is gone within 2 years, and they are probably moving. This is my conclusion but not my purpose for posting. When other posters or I start dicing up where we are at in this process and why it’s happening, your replies contradict those same conclusions and you’re basically arguing they will stay here indefinitely because they said they would. For example, in the “11th Hour,” I made the point of “Guess, what folks. They are kicking the tires on other cities, and this may go faster than we think.” You responded with the problems in those cities and claimed the relocation fee might be prohibitive. You later concede those problems aren’t going to be roadblocks, and the most logical conclusion is apparent. One of them is getting the team. But that’s not the way your replies read. While it’s not your purpose or intent, the posts further the spin by the local media that the team will stay for the indefinite future because the other markets are worse. (Which is why I reply.)
There are some people that enjoy reading this, but most fans don’t wade into this topic. If you just can’t bear to read my negativity or speculation … then don’t.
But just like when people throw out non-sense 3 for 1 trades or completely mischaracterize a player’s game, you get called out on it. When you contradict yourself or throw out half baked roadblocks, I usually don’t respond. Lately, we’ve taken every chance and started to break down each other’s intent (talk about speculation) But I’m done with this devolving cycle. This isn’t what I came here to post or what people come here to read. When news comes up, I’ll chime in and I’m sure we’ll have different takes on this, but I’m done with this quibbling and squabbling. Follow suit, whack away, or run amuck. I don’t care. I’ve sufficiently made my point on my issue with your posts.
fnordius – thanks for trying to break that up with a great post.
Larry, I never said they won't move, because they said they won't. And the only reason I speculated the move might not be as swift as this March, is because the economic circumstances for moving a team aren't all that good right now. However, my belief that the Maloofs don't want to move or sell the team, does not equate to my believeing they won't do it, if they're left with only those options (no arena deal). So don't mischaracterize what I said. Contrary to your obvious belief that I'm stupid, I'm not. I don't like being patronized.
I'm well aware of all the information you've posted. I know the signs aren't good at all. Read the tea leaves all you want. Just remember that a lot of the tea leaves are hidden from all of us. Why do you care what any other fans in here want to think, nonsense or not? There is some samll chance they could be right and you could be dead wrong with your tea leaves reading.
Some people want to think there's still a chance the Kings stay. You and I know that's getting much less likely by the day, but people can decide to live their fan lives assuming the Kings are here until somebody announces the're not. The chances are slim the Kings stay, but they could end up being right and you could be dead wrong. Its just arrogance to insist that people have to accept your interpretation of the facts, because you are clearly being the "logical" one supported by facts and they are just blind homers, believing in nonsense and apparently stupid, according to you.
I'm well aware of all the information you've posted. I know the signs aren't good at all. Read the tea leaves all you want. Just remember that a lot of the tea leaves are hidden from all of us. Why do you care what any other fans in here want to think, nonsense or not? There is some samll chance they could be right and you could be dead wrong with your tea leaves reading.
Some people want to think there's still a chance the Kings stay. You and I know that's getting much less likely by the day, but people can decide to live their fan lives assuming the Kings are here until somebody announces the're not. The chances are slim the Kings stay, but they could end up being right and you could be dead wrong. Its just arrogance to insist that people have to accept your interpretation of the facts, because you are clearly being the "logical" one supported by facts and they are just blind homers, believing in nonsense and apparently stupid, according to you.
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I have a mental sliding scale that represents the chances of the Kings leaving Sac (because I'm an undercover pessimist). That slide is sitting at a 73% chance the Kings are gonna be gone. This is a fluid scale that takes into account every piece of information I become privy to. In reality, at those chances, I believe the guys are gone 4 years from now. I can't feel the citizens of Sac bonding to this incarnation in a way that guarantees the team sticks, yet. That may change as the season progresses.
I believe that a majority of fans judge this situation the way I do: they read what news there is, they ask their friends' opinions, talk to their significant others, and talk to a guy on the inside (okay, that's just me
), then they make an educated guess.
I guess I'm just trying to say that this is all a crap shoot that has die rolling according to the team's immediate success.
Oh, the guy I know says they REALLY don't want to move. They will putt around as long as it takes, but the league will probably end up forcing their hand.
I believe that a majority of fans judge this situation the way I do: they read what news there is, they ask their friends' opinions, talk to their significant others, and talk to a guy on the inside (okay, that's just me
), then they make an educated guess.I guess I'm just trying to say that this is all a crap shoot that has die rolling according to the team's immediate success.
Oh, the guy I know says they REALLY don't want to move. They will putt around as long as it takes, but the league will probably end up forcing their hand.
And that's the other side of the coin. The league has already declared Arco an inadequate venue for NBA basketball (as the NCAA has declared it unacceptable for college bball). If there's no new arena soon. the league (read other owners) may force the Kings to realocate, regardless of the Maloofs wishes.
As said here earlier plus many times before, ultimately it does not matter if Arco fills up to the rafters with Gavin Maloof jumping up and down courtside giddy every night. If NBA rules the ancient falling apart arena unfit for basketball in their league (as the NCAA already has ruled) Kings franchise will be mandated to leave - simple as that.