[Game] Sacramento Kings @ Portland Trailblazers, 12/26/2023, 7:00pm PST/10:00pm EST
- Thread starter QWERTYLICIOUS
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Yeah, I was right there with you at the beginning of the year. But a big part of why we had our resurgence last year was Huerter legitmately playing like an above-average starter. Dude was incredible and one of the best spacers in the game that fit perfectly with Domas.
The frustrating thing is everything we wanted him to be better at last season...he has been this year. Much better on the glass, much better defensively, getting involved a bit more as a passer. But all that stuff really doesn't matter if he's only 10.8 PPG on 35% from 3. That has to be 14+ PPG and 38%+ from 3 to justify him in a starting role. He's not good enough at the other stuff to just be "meh" on offense. We want him to be "meh" at everything else while being an elite offensive role player, like last season.
Everyone knows my stance on Monk. yeah, missing his bench punch would stink, but there's also just something to be said for getting and keeping your best players on the floor. Play him 32+ MPG and just stagger your playmakers accordingly.
But if Brown isn't going to do that, then we should tap Keon. Just get his infusion of defense on the floor with the starting unit and let him go defend better offensive guards as opposed. Brown has been looking for a "defensive stopper" type with the starters forever and I think Keon can probably give you just enough to justify it. Or at least see if it can work to improve the defense.
THE BOLDED POINT IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET AT SINCE THE START OF THE SEASON! We don't know which version of Kevin/Keegan/Barnes we're getting every night. I hate to lump in Keegan because he's been playing great lately, but it just goes with the overall inconsistency from our players. It goes beyond having a "shoot slump." If you're a professional NBA team, you should expect the ball to go in every single time your 3pt specialist shoots. A wide open 3pt shot on the Kings is not a near-guaranteed 3 like we see on contending teams (see the Celtics game). It's been very frustrating how we hang our hat on 3pt shooting, but it doesn't translate every game. I've seen people here just shrug and state that it was just an "off-shooting" night. I don't buy that excuse. In the NBA, there are no "off-shooting" nights. A 3pt shot counts as much as any FG or shot attempt. If Sabonis missed 5 lay-ups around the rim, we wouldn't say "oh, it just wasn't our night at the rim." So why are we giving the shooters any benefit of the doubt? The 3pt shot is harder because you're further from the rim, but shooting 3s are part of scoring.
I'm also done with Kevin. He played good defense for what seemed like 5-10 games this season before reverting back to old habits and being below average again. His DHO connection with Sabonis does not make up for his short comings anymore. We need a better starting SG. Let him be some other team's issue to figure out.
Oof. Don't be a prisoner of the moment. Last season Huerter was MORE than outplayed the protected first we gave ATL. He's regressing this year, but it's wrong to say we "lost" the trade because he's been bad this year.
The team looks like is falling in some mental whole ... And that is already for a few games ...
Aside Fox, Monk and Sabonis all other are in the donwtrend ...
Huerter ... I do not know how great he was last season , but since i watch closely the team , alrady 30 games , he have 5 or 6 good and all rest is total crap ... And does not look like he is ''burning'' into the games, it s a bit like ''whatever..''
Barnes - same is here in my opinion ... I was loosing me nerves about him , but i realized the guy is 31 , he just signed a juicy contract ... He just seems like the guy who does not give a *********** if the teams win , or loose ...
Vezenkov and Lyeles ... Those two are really in bad mood now i think ... Sasha got rejected in his first attempt tonight and after it was just looking over his shoulder to the bench waitting to be substituted ... Lyles is even worst (for me)... In last 10 games he has 2/3 games with 0 points , but good amount of time ... Something with the ''fight'' over minutes is not working for both of them ...
Keon - he looks like the one who is taking the momentum on his side , but honestly last 3/4 games he is in down form as well ...
Duarte , Edwards , Mitchel those 3 are stil enigmas for me ... Daurte and Mitchel are just poor , while Edwards might deserve a bit more time on the floor too
Keegan - i left him behind , cause otherwise you all will not read my post at all
But i see big issues with him at the moment. With the biggest in my eyes - Brown ... He is so protectiv about him , that it is hurting him a bit ... Does not matter what is happening , he might be 0-12 from 3pt , but Coach is still ''shoot the ball shoot the ball it will start falling ...'' At least the facial expression of the Murray in many times (what i have seen) is a huge unsecure if he really has to shoot the ball or just try to score in another way ... The team is missing a lot of not having a concistant third scorer and high % of shooting ... Yes , when he got hot - maaaan a beauty ... the problem .. it happens once in 30 games so far (ok maybe 4/5 times)...
And this difference in % playing at home and away from home will hurt us even more in the next one month , if he could not change it ...
I start to wonder if his big improvement in defence is a good or bad for the team in general ...
It starts too look a bit that we really need to trade Mitchel , HB , Duarte and KH and take one LeVine type of player for staritng guard next to Fox and maybe one really good defender to play huge amount of minutes, first taking off Murray from his deffence role and make him ''shoot the ball'' but when he is not nailing it - put imedeiatelly Vezenkov or Lyles , then if necessery put the third one in while one of those starts making the shots ...
And here is the question - is this really possible to be done , if yes is it the middle of the season the time for it ...
I still believe the team can be really good one even without trades , but Brawn HAD to change his attitude towards the roster he has to make them want the minutes they play , not hope/pray or expect them ....
At the moment we have few players who are just to comfortable with their roles , and few who are scary to play at all and the team is starting to hurt a bit ... It is just a begining of a process but changes are in orderr now ...
If nothing changes fast , i can not see us winning before Hornets at home ...
Aside Fox, Monk and Sabonis all other are in the donwtrend ...
Huerter ... I do not know how great he was last season , but since i watch closely the team , alrady 30 games , he have 5 or 6 good and all rest is total crap ... And does not look like he is ''burning'' into the games, it s a bit like ''whatever..''
Barnes - same is here in my opinion ... I was loosing me nerves about him , but i realized the guy is 31 , he just signed a juicy contract ... He just seems like the guy who does not give a *********** if the teams win , or loose ...
Vezenkov and Lyeles ... Those two are really in bad mood now i think ... Sasha got rejected in his first attempt tonight and after it was just looking over his shoulder to the bench waitting to be substituted ... Lyles is even worst (for me)... In last 10 games he has 2/3 games with 0 points , but good amount of time ... Something with the ''fight'' over minutes is not working for both of them ...
Keon - he looks like the one who is taking the momentum on his side , but honestly last 3/4 games he is in down form as well ...
Duarte , Edwards , Mitchel those 3 are stil enigmas for me ... Daurte and Mitchel are just poor , while Edwards might deserve a bit more time on the floor too
Keegan - i left him behind , cause otherwise you all will not read my post at all
But i see big issues with him at the moment. With the biggest in my eyes - Brown ... He is so protectiv about him , that it is hurting him a bit ... Does not matter what is happening , he might be 0-12 from 3pt , but Coach is still ''shoot the ball shoot the ball it will start falling ...'' At least the facial expression of the Murray in many times (what i have seen) is a huge unsecure if he really has to shoot the ball or just try to score in another way ... The team is missing a lot of not having a concistant third scorer and high % of shooting ... Yes , when he got hot - maaaan a beauty ... the problem .. it happens once in 30 games so far (ok maybe 4/5 times)...And this difference in % playing at home and away from home will hurt us even more in the next one month , if he could not change it ...
I start to wonder if his big improvement in defence is a good or bad for the team in general ...
It starts too look a bit that we really need to trade Mitchel , HB , Duarte and KH and take one LeVine type of player for staritng guard next to Fox and maybe one really good defender to play huge amount of minutes, first taking off Murray from his deffence role and make him ''shoot the ball'' but when he is not nailing it - put imedeiatelly Vezenkov or Lyles , then if necessery put the third one in while one of those starts making the shots ...
And here is the question - is this really possible to be done , if yes is it the middle of the season the time for it ...
I still believe the team can be really good one even without trades , but Brawn HAD to change his attitude towards the roster he has to make them want the minutes they play , not hope/pray or expect them ....
At the moment we have few players who are just to comfortable with their roles , and few who are scary to play at all and the team is starting to hurt a bit ... It is just a begining of a process but changes are in orderr now ...
If nothing changes fast , i can not see us winning before Hornets at home ...
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Maybe im a little overreacting but 10 out of 38 on three attempts over the last ten games is just over 26%.
Not real good for a guy billed as a threat from outside.
I don’t know at what point you no longer call it a funk and curious how that lack of production can be fixed.
fansinceday1
Starter
My internet went out midway through the first. I put on a movie and ended up falling asleep. Woke up around 2 hours after the game ended and saw what happened. Didn’t miss a damn thing.
My mom told me all she wanted for Christmas was for the pistons to win 1 game, just one, before the kings play them on January 9th.
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BenchMob
Bench
Also the thing with Huerter, maybe its just me but it seems he still gets wide open 3's off the DHO this year but just bricks them, its not like teams are scheming him defensively and he's forcing shots. Although i do see a minor improvement in rebounding and team defense, he is a revolving door one on one and teams seek that out. Its time to move on from him.
MizzouKing
Starter
When the success rate is this low, it pains me to see Sasha just passing the ball 90% of the time while we throw it into the Huerter black hole hoping he’ll “get hot” again. I’d rather see the volume 3 point attempts coming from Sasha at this point. I know he’s still finding his game, but his well-established skills and experience have a whole lot more potential that we should be investing in.
Yeah his open 3pt% is like absurdly bad this year for some reason. That should regress back to the mean soon enough
GWD
Bench
Pick through the posts for this game and the dominate problems are starting to emerge.
Defense: Coach Brown is COY and a "defensive genius". Maybe, but there is little defensive strategy and the team has not materially improved team defense over Brown's tenure. Either the players don't listen, learn, and respond or the coaches don't have the techniques to teach the skills necessary for good defense. Fox and Keegan are improvement exceptions but they independently worked on this over the summer.
Offense: Score by the 3 appears to be the one-note formula for wins. There is no Plan B. Sometimes it is successful, sometimes it is not. "Just keep shooting the 3" has proven not to work in losses. There are other options. Fox driving, Keegan posting up, Sabonis mid-range shots have proven to work. There must be other creative strategies that are worth a try. But at least try something or have a plan in reserve.
Motivation: Other than Sabonis and Fox there seemed to be a lack of desire from the players in this game as well as some others. Coach Brown's tactics may have soured some players on his techniques. Notice less hand slaps and eye contact during substitutions. Assistant coaches have most of the interaction with players. Notably, Keegan displays a bit of body-language resentment with Brown's hovering (although admittedly Keegan is difficult to read). Shasha's disappointment is more apparent. It is subtle team-wide, but it is there.
Defense: Coach Brown is COY and a "defensive genius". Maybe, but there is little defensive strategy and the team has not materially improved team defense over Brown's tenure. Either the players don't listen, learn, and respond or the coaches don't have the techniques to teach the skills necessary for good defense. Fox and Keegan are improvement exceptions but they independently worked on this over the summer.
Offense: Score by the 3 appears to be the one-note formula for wins. There is no Plan B. Sometimes it is successful, sometimes it is not. "Just keep shooting the 3" has proven not to work in losses. There are other options. Fox driving, Keegan posting up, Sabonis mid-range shots have proven to work. There must be other creative strategies that are worth a try. But at least try something or have a plan in reserve.
Motivation: Other than Sabonis and Fox there seemed to be a lack of desire from the players in this game as well as some others. Coach Brown's tactics may have soured some players on his techniques. Notice less hand slaps and eye contact during substitutions. Assistant coaches have most of the interaction with players. Notably, Keegan displays a bit of body-language resentment with Brown's hovering (although admittedly Keegan is difficult to read). Shasha's disappointment is more apparent. It is subtle team-wide, but it is there.
I mean, he's a proven shooter over years and years. A horrid 38 3pt fga sample doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of his proven talent.
But it's absolutely becoming a concerning trend this year, 30 games in. He's just not a starter if he's not playing as an above average offensive player.
We should have lost at least by 10 or more points than we did. Simons and Scoot got to the rim at will in the fourth because the Kings are like Mcdonalds, their drive thru is open all year round.
We luckily got some pokes, deflections, blocks at the end of the game, which we confuse with actually playing defense.
Defense
First, our perimeter defense is atrocious allowing open 3s, missing rotations, letting players blow past, etc.
Second our paint defense and rebounding is pathetic.
Third, our length and athleticism is lacking.
None of these were addressed in the offseason.
Offense
It's the settle for 3 show every single game. Monk hasn't been the same since his foot injury and he, Fox and Sabonis are the only consistent players.
It's time for some rotational changes. Get the low IQ players out and the high IQ players in, such as less Javale and more Colby. Put in some defenders like Edwards/T. Anderson. We need some length and defense out there. We need to stop settling. We need the coach to run some plays.
We have been through enough, we need some players who at least bring energy and hustle at the very least.
We luckily got some pokes, deflections, blocks at the end of the game, which we confuse with actually playing defense.
Defense
First, our perimeter defense is atrocious allowing open 3s, missing rotations, letting players blow past, etc.
Second our paint defense and rebounding is pathetic.
Third, our length and athleticism is lacking.
None of these were addressed in the offseason.
Offense
It's the settle for 3 show every single game. Monk hasn't been the same since his foot injury and he, Fox and Sabonis are the only consistent players.
It's time for some rotational changes. Get the low IQ players out and the high IQ players in, such as less Javale and more Colby. Put in some defenders like Edwards/T. Anderson. We need some length and defense out there. We need to stop settling. We need the coach to run some plays.
We have been through enough, we need some players who at least bring energy and hustle at the very least.
I feel like we're overreacting a bit here. We are 17-12 and had a pretty rough schedule so far and some injuries to deal with. Coach Brown is trying to emphasize defense which will take away from the offense for the time being. It's not going to happen overnight and there will be some bad games along the way. The key to this is getting it all sorted out and playing at a high level on both ends of the floor come playoff time.
gunks
Hall of Famer
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Yeh it’s what fans do. Every fanbase thinks their defense sucks, can’t rebound, bad rotations, every fringe player needs to be traded and the sky is falling after every loss. I’m not excluding myself from these activities by the way haha. The reality is we have a top 5 hardest schedule so far, more injuries than all of last year, a middling offense ( by our standard) and are still outpacing last year in a super competitive western conference. The blowout losses are maddening however and we have plenty of things to get better at if we want to stay in the top 6 all season.
What if the sky is actually falling?
Schedule has nothing to do with Portland who is 2nd to last in the standings. They were missing 2 starters and we still got blown out.
We were missing rotations, not rebounding, etc.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Everyone can fan the way they chose, I’m just pointing out that we as fans typically over react some. More than 30 games into this season we are ahead of last season despite a stronger conference, more injuries and a tough schedule. That’s a good thing. Having said that, we have some major things to address or we could slip on this extended road stretch. Something to be proactive about for sure whether that’s internally or externally
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I feel like this makes it worse!
It's an interesting point. If the team defense has looked this bad, with an extra emphasis on defense for this season,... then something will have to change in order to reasonably expect a deeper playoff run.
Whether that change is strategy, technique, roster usage, or player changes through trade....I think we have seen enough games to know that something needs a shake up
SLAB
Hall of Famer
This team wasn’t good enough to just run it back and hope things get better. Losses like this are actually good because Monte can realize this faster and fix the team. Not some panic move, but changes need to be made. Barnes should have never been brought back. It’ll be addition by subtraction when he’s out because I think the guys behind him (Sup Sasha and Trey) will provide far more than he does when given the same amount of time. We don’t need his leadership anymore. Huerter needs to find himself or get benched to clear his head. Malik is an amazing spark off the bench. But he’s constantly being thrown out as one of our Core Four. Start him. Find a new playmaker / facilitator for the bench. He doesn’t need to be as dynamic and “SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR” level as Monk, just a guy to acceptably shoulder the load when he sits.
There is truly big upside here. But it’s not going to happen as constructed. Tweak this.
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You and others keep saying this, or something like this. I will just say that Malik Monk was in the league for five years before he got to Sacramento, and the only role in which he's truly had any real success is the role that he's in right now. There's no particular evidence that he can make this productivity translate into a full-time starters' role. Like, people seem to want to believe that Monk is the Sami Zayn of the Kings, but what if it turns out that he's Bo Dallas? What if his gimmick only works in NXT (i.e., as the sixth man)?
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Ironically they had a microwave spark player off the bench in Terence Davis, which could have allowed Monk to move into a starting spot. They let him walk away
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Davis is an interesting case. He seemed to have value for the team last year, but they let him walk. This would seem questionable, but then no other team signed him, either.
Caccia
Starter
2021-22 LAL: Games 76; Minutes per game: 28:09; FG% 47.3; 3P% 39.1; FT% 79.5; Assists 2.9; Steals 0.8; Points per game 13.8. That season, he started 37 of 76 games, hence the high number of minutes per game. As a starter, he averaged 17.0 points, 4.0 rebounds and 3.3 assists.
The lakers went 14-23 in those games.
Caccia
Starter
Irrelevant.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I think this is probably a case of feeling like they had to make a certain amount of changes....and then seeing now that choosing him as an odd man out, was probably not a beneficial change.
For what I see, Duarte is not more valuable to this team than Davis was and could still be
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Don't call it Kings' defense. Call it "Kings' BS defense." That's where you "act" like you're concerned with the dribble-driver passing in the paint rather than shooting so you make a little feint toward the dribbler and effectively let the guy get an easy score in the paint. Don't take the charge. BS defense. Or, as Duece said, "unserious defense."
gunks
Hall of Famer
Our bench would be so awful if we started Monk...
Although.... if we started Monk and moved both HB and Huerter to the 2nd unit, those two might be able to make a bigger impact going against lesser players.
But then "lesser players" worked us last night, so it's not a given.
Although.... if we started Monk and moved both HB and Huerter to the 2nd unit, those two might be able to make a bigger impact going against lesser players.
But then "lesser players" worked us last night, so it's not a given.
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