Sac/NOH

[Bricklayer]

So in recognition of the impending minutes crunch which is going to leave Beno Udrih, Mike Bibby, Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Ron Artest and Francisco Garcia all averaging 24mpg, and knock Dahntay Jones (who has been good) and Quincy Douby (wasted pick) entirely out of the running, I have in the last week or two suggested:

a) a trade of Ron to New York as a way to dump our two problem PF salaries (Kenny and Reef)

b) trade of Mike and Kevin to Memphis to bring back Pau and Mike Conley (#4 pick in the draft)

Well, here's a third angle on the crunch -- New Orleans is looking for depth and are thinking they can make a real run THIS year.

Sacto Out:
John Salmons $4.7mil

New Orleans Out:
Julian Wright (#13 pick) $1.74mil
Jannero Pargo $2.0mil

(alternates are to try to combine John/Mikki for BJax/Wright, or John/Kenny for BJax/Butler/Wright)


The why: not having minutes for all our guys, this passes the buck to the future with another mega-young guy who might (or might not) be a star 3-4 years down the road, and effectively gives us both the #10 and #13 pick form the draft this past year. Lets us maintain our talent base and free up minutes with a young guy who isn't ready to play big minutes yet. Such a deal would have been inconceivable on draft day (Hornets would have never donw it), but now with them in possible contention and needing depth, and John emerging, maybe.

 

[nbrans]

Yikes. Wright is not that good, and Pargo is Pargo. This isn't much of a salary dump either since Salmons isn't making much.

Salmons' stock might not be stratospheric, but he's a guy who can put up 18 ppg as a starter, play good defense, and is making less than the MLE. I think we can do better if we trade him -- New Orleans would have to throw in at least a first rounder or take on one of our bad contracts.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think we can do better if we trade him.

That is where we disagree. IMO no way after only 2 months of this following 5 years of being John Salmons do you do better than a lottery pick for the guy.

I would agree if we had a way to keep him the starter on through the end of the year you could up his value significantly. However, we do not unless we move Ron or Kevin, and after John hits the bench again his value will go down by the week until its down to not being too much more than it was to start the season.

 

[nbrans]

That is where we disagree. No way after only 2 months of this following 5 years of being John Salmons do you do better than a lottery pick.

I would agree if we had a way to keep him the starter on through the end of the year you could up his value significantly. However, we do not unless we move Ron or Kevin, and after John hits the bench again his value will go down by the week until its down to not being too much more than it was to start the season.

I agree that he may be worth one lottery pick, but if it's a lottery pick I would want one that has shown more than Wright. I know it's early and he's athletic etc. etc., but if we wanted him we could have drafted him.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Yikes. Wright is not that good, and Pargo is Pargo. This isn't much of a salary dump either since Salmons isn't making much.

Salmons' stock might not be stratospheric, but he's a guy who can put up 18 ppg as a starter, play good defense, and is making less than the MLE. I think we can do better if we trade him -- New Orleans would have to throw in at least a first rounder or take on one of our bad contracts.

You have to be kidding? A bad trade for us? Them throw in a pick? It's doubtful they'd even consider that trade, let alone throw in another pick. Nobody is going to give away a guy with that much potential (Wright) for John Salmons, no matter how well he spot starts (which is likely all he'll ever do). He isn't as good off the bench and he is never going to contribute 18ppg through a full season. He's a nice player, but not someone you give up a really talented youngster, a hustle player and a pick for. No way.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I know it's early and he's athletic etc. etc., but if we wanted him we could have drafted him.

Petrie was never going to take Wright ahead of Hawes, regardless of who will be the better player (debateable at this early stage) and who has more star potential (undoubtedly Wright).

 

[Superman]

So in recognition of the impending minutes crunch which is going to leave Beno Udrih, Mike Bibby, Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Ron Artest and Francisco Garcia all averaging 24mpg, and knock Dahntay Jones (who has been good) and Quincy Douby (wasted pick) entirely out of the running, I have in the last week or two suggested:

a) a trade of Ron to New York as a way to dump our two problem PF salaries (Kenny and Reef)

b) trade of Mike and Kevin to Memphis to bring back Pau and Mike Conley (#4 pick in the draft)

Well, here's a third angle on the crunch -- New Orleans is looking for depth and are thinking they can make a real run THIS year.

Sacto Out:
John Salmons

New Orleans Out:
Julian Wright (#13 pick) $1.74mil
Jannero Pargo $2.0mil

(alternates are to try to combine John/Mikki for BJax/Wright, or John/Kenny for BJax/Butler/Wright)


The why: not having minutes for all our guys, this passes the buck to the future with another mega-young guy who might (or might not) be a star 3-4 years down the road, and effectively gives us both the #10 and #13 pick form the draft this past year. Lets us maintain our talent base and free up minutes with a young guy who isn't ready to play big minutes yet. Such a deal would have been inconceivable on draft day (Hornets would have never donw it), but now with them in possible contention and needing depth, and John emerging, maybe.

I don't think John is what the Hornets are looking for to help them make a run. John looks good right now (and the idea to trade him now is spot on, to be sure, since his value is as high as it ever will be), but he wouldn't produce in the Hornets lineup. He needs to play on the ball to be productive, and he'd be mostly off the ball, and he'd have to push Morris Peterson out of the starting lineup.

I think the Kings would do very well to pull the trigger on that deal (Salmons for Wright/Pargo), but I don't know if the Hornets would give up their first rounder for John Salmons.

 

[nbrans]

You have to be kidding? A bad trade for us? Them throw in a pick? It's doubtful they'd even consider that trade, let alone throw in another pick. Nobody is going to give away a guy with that much potential (Wright) for John Salmons, no matter how well he spot starts (which is likely all he'll ever do). He isn't as good off the bench and he is never going to contribute 18ppg through a full season. He's a nice player, but not someone you give up a really talented youngster, a hustle player and a pick for. No way.

Maybe I'm biased because I've never thought much of Julian Wright and he has shown zero so far this season even when he's gotten minutes, but I think it's very counterproductive to trade someone who is still relatively young and improving for someone who is absolutely unproven. This trade just gives away someone who has been very good for us for someone who is a big question mark. I'm all for taking risks in the name of potential, but in my opinion you take a risk on guys like Tyrus Thomas, who have shown flashes but aren't in the right system, over guys like Wright, who are just complete unknowns.

 

[Superman]

Maybe I'm biased because I've never thought much of Julian Wright and he has shown zero so far this season even when he's gotten minutes, but I think it's very counterproductive to trade someone who is still relatively young and improving for someone who is absolutely unproven. This trade just gives away someone who has been very good for us for someone who is a big question mark. I'm all for taking risks in the name of potential, but in my opinion you take a risk on guys like Tyrus Thomas, who have shown flashes but aren't in the right system, over guys like Wright, who are just complete unknowns.

Would the Bulls give up Tyrus Thomas for John Salmons? I'd be willing to do that deal, and throw in sweeteners. I don't think that's good enough.

The thing about John Salmons is that his value, to us and everyone else, is getting ready to go down drastically, as soon as Ron Artest and Kevin Martin come back. He is not going to start over either of those two players. So if we can trade him now, while he's a 20ppg starter, as opposed to when he goes back to being a 10ppg bench player, then we do it. The only way we keep Salmons is if we move Artest or Martin.

And honestly, even if we do move one of those two, John Salmons isn't the answer for us if we want to contend. Since he's currently the best swingman on the team and he is the first or second option on offense, he's putting up numbers. But if we continue to build our talent base, bring in a viable big man who can score, get a power forward with some offense, then John Salmons isn't the scoring option that he is now. He's still just John Salmons.

I don't want to sound like I'm eager to get rid of him, but if we can use him to get better as a team and spread our talent out among the lineup, as opposed to having a five-man swing rotation, then I'm all for it. His stock will never be higher than it is now.

 

[Gary]

What about a Salmons to Phoenix? Salmons would play SG and is better than what they have there right now at SG (Better than Barbosa because Barbosa does not have the size to defend that Salmons has).

I have no idea who we get from PHX but a 3rd team might chime in and give us something we need... This might be a ploy for PHX to get rid of Amare as well. So they get Salmons from us, and a couple players from another team while we get someone from another team, and maybe a pick from PHX? I have done no research so I am not having a clue which players would be involved, but I do know that Salmons would be a decent fit for PHX.

 

[Gary]

And honestly, even if we do move one of those two, John Salmons isn't the answer for us if we want to contend.

I disagree with that. Salmons is a good SG, and a team that co0ntends always needs a guy that slashes, and hits the open mid range jumpers.

I see Salmons as a mix between Christie and Richmond. Not as good defensively as Christie, and not as good as Richmond offensively.. But a good middle of the road mix between the two. A team can always use a guy liek Salmons, and a title team could do worse than have Salmons starting.

 

[hearns]

Interesting proposal, specially in we can dump Kenny in the process.

It would be risky, because Julian Wright is unproven and Salmons is playing very well, but it's interesting.

 

[venom_7]

I just dont want to trade Kevin. Let Bibby walk when his contact is up, because honestly, thats a nice bit of money coming off the books. Let Ron walk too for all I care, the only reason to trade him is to get rid of KT or SAR. This isn't a playoff team, so lets rebuild with what we have instead of getting significant downgrades.

 

[Superman]

I just dont want to trade Kevin. Let Bibby walk when his contact is up, because honestly, thats a nice bit of money coming off the books. Let Ron walk too for all I care, the only reason to trade him is to get rid of KT or SAR. This isn't a playoff team, so lets rebuild with what we have instead of getting significant downgrades.

We probably can't trade Ron with another bad contract.

 

[Superman]

I disagree with that. Salmons is a good SG, and a team that co0ntends always needs a guy that slashes, and hits the open mid range jumpers.

I see Salmons as a mix between Christie and Richmond. Not as good defensively as Christie, and not as good as Richmond offensively.. But a good middle of the road mix between the two. A team can always use a guy liek Salmons, and a title team could do worse than have Salmons starting.

I just don't see Salmons as a starting-caliber off guard on a contending team.

He's a nice 6th piece, but the problem is that he's not as good off the bench as he is in the starting lineup. Reminds a bit of Hedo Turkoglu in that regard. He's not a Bobby Jackson/Ben Gordon type of player.

Besides, if we have to lose Salmons to get bigger, younger and cheaper, or any two of those three, I'm willing to see us make that sacrifice (Julian Wright might not be the answer, but we should look into it, I think). I just don't want to see Salmons go back to the bench and become a useful player that isn't utilized properly because he needs more minutes. Who knows, maybe he will be more effective off the bench due to his success starting over the past couple of months. But if we can turn John Salmons into a young athletic forward, then it's worth it to me.

 

[Superman]

What about a Salmons to Phoenix? Salmons would play SG and is better than what they have there right now at SG (Better than Barbosa because Barbosa does not have the size to defend that Salmons has).

I have no idea who we get from PHX but a 3rd team might chime in and give us something we need... This might be a ploy for PHX to get rid of Amare as well. So they get Salmons from us, and a couple players from another team while we get someone from another team, and maybe a pick from PHX? I have done no research so I am not having a clue which players would be involved, but I do know that Salmons would be a decent fit for PHX.

Raja Bell is the starting two guard for the Suns. Grant Hill starts at SF. Maybe the Suns would like to have Salmons starting for them next year, but I don't see them looking at John Salmons as their starting small forward of the future.

They're looking more for a proven vet who can put in work off the bench in the playoffs. And they'd probably rather that vet be a big man who can spell Amare and not be overpowered by the big men of the Western conference (Boozer, Yao, Duncan, Bynum, etc.)

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i'd pull the trigger on that trade. how long is pargo's contract?

 

[chrisnu]

i'd pull the trigger on that trade. how long is pargo's contract?

He has a player option for next season, also at $2 million. He'd be an okay backup if the Kings decide to move Bibby and start Beno.

Salmons would immediately start over Mo Pete in New Orleans. To say he's been disappointing would be an understatement, and they don't need two nearly-identical players in the line-up in Peterson and Peja. They're both just shooters. Salmons would provide more complimentary play with his ability to get to the basket.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I just don't see Salmons as a starting-caliber off guard on a contending team.

He's a nice 6th piece, but the problem is that he's not as good off the bench as he is in the starting lineup. Reminds a bit of Hedo Turkoglu in that regard. He's not a Bobby Jackson/Ben Gordon type of player.

Hedo, remember, and not Peja was playing the most minutes for our contending team in 2002.

 

[SacTownKid]

No thanks to the deal. Trade Ron and put John at the 3. This John Salmons isn't the same John Salmons, well he is, but this is the one getting playing time. It's not a fluke. What better rebuilding piece to have than a guy that can get you 20 points a game making only 4 million.