[Rumor]Kings/Ranadive interested in Sam Hinkie

[VF21]

And who is the Mad Hatter, may I ask?

In my Wonderland, there can only be one:

 

[ParniValjak]

If Hinke was able to evaluate talent and put together a team rather than just tank, the 76ers would be a solid playoff team by now, considering how many high draft picks he had over the last 5-6 years.

But he is not a good talent elevator and he takes way too many risks on injury prone big men that have yet to pan out, including Noel and Embiid. Embiid has not played 40 games in over 3 seasons and Noel was traded for a 2nd round pick at the deadline. The rest of his picks have been disappointments.

The only thing I would say Hinke has over Vlade is his ability to use his cap space to accumulate draft picks, which goes along with not spending any money on players and tanking for so long, and then he screws up the draft pick he accumulates.

As far as fleecing Vlade on the Philly trade, that has yet to be seen. The pick swaps may never happen. And if the Kings pick well with their 2 lottery picks in this years draft and next years draft pick, there is no reason why the Kings 2019 pick won't be a late lottery or lower pick (i.e. #10-16). The Kings already got a first round pick (#22) back from trading Bellilini and drafted Malichi Richardson. The Kings also got their starting center, KK from the salary cap room from that trade.

Fact is, no one knows how the Philly trade works or doesn't work out until the summer of 2019

Oh Look! More denial!!!

2019 pick will be a lottery pick. A top 10 pick! Even if Kings strike it lucky in this draft and draft themselves a couple of franchise level player with the lottery picks, and they get another one with their pick in 2018, the reality of the matter is that these kids (which is what they really are) take time to develop into productive NBA players and it takes time for them to grow us a team.

I think no one can argue that Timberwolves have their foundations set with KAT, Wiggins and LaVine and a bunch of young, very good players that round out the roster. They have a very good coach yet they are still taking their time. They are still learning and getting better. They will eventually get there unless something major goes wrong in Minny but they are well on the way in terms of talent acquisition. Everything else takes time. Cousins took 4 seasons before he started putting up all-star type numbers.

So this talk that somehow, miraculously Kings will buck the trend and get there quicker is just plain funny considering the franchise that we are talking about here. A franchise that keeps sabotaging itself over and over again. An owner that thinks he can outsmart everyone....the same guy that has shown the patience of a 6 month old with the ADD.

Sure Vlade got pick 22 to "offset" the loss of 2019 first rounder which would have been a fair value if the Kings are a mid range play-off team in 2019 which they will clearly not be. So really, he likely traded a lottery pick (likely to be top 10) for pick 22. Brilliant move all around. The ONLY way that trade saves any value is if Philly does not swap with the Kings this year and Kings were going to get a pick in the 22 range in 2019. Now that first part might have good odds of not happening (pick swap) but the second part of Kings being slated to get a pick around 22 in the 2019 draft anyway is so far from happening its not funny. In fact I would say any betting agency would give you excellent odds if you think Kings would be around the pick 22 mark in 2019 (i.e lower to mid range play off team).

And I am not even going to get into the strength of last year's draft and that in 2019. If the 2019 draft is considered to be better than the 2016 draft in terms of talent, then that trade looks even worse.

The trade made SOME sense if you were 100%, unconditionally moving forward with Cousins. Hell if might have made sense if you traded Cousins after the 2019 season but as of right now, that deal looks arguably as all time worst for the Kings in the franchise history. It really is simple when you remove the purple colored glasses and look at things objectively, without a hint of bias.

 

[ockingsfan]

Oh Look! More denial!!!

2019 pick will be a lottery pick. A top 10 pick! Even if Kings strike it lucky in this draft and draft themselves a couple of franchise level player with the lottery picks, and they get another one with their pick in 2018, the reality of the matter is that these kind (which is what they really are) take time to develop into productive NBA players and it takes time for them to grow us a team.

I think no one can argue that Timberwolves have their foundations set with KAT, Wiggins and LaVine and a bunch of young very good players that round out the roster. They have a very good coach yet they are still taking their time. They are still learning and getting better. They will eventually get there unless something major goes wrong in Minny but they are well on the way in terms of talent acquisition. Everything else takes time. Cousins took 4 seasons before he started putting up all-star type numbers.

So this talk that somehow, miraculously Kings will buck the trend and get there quicker is just plain funny considering the franchise that we are talking about here. A franchise that keeps sabotaging itself over and over again. An owner that thinks he can outsmart everyone....the same guy that has shown the patience of a 6 month old with the ADD.

Sure Vlade got pick 22 to "offset" the loss of 2019 first rounder which would have been a fair value if the Kings are a mid range play-off team in 2019 which they will clearly not be. So really, he likely traded a lottery pick (likely to be top 10) for pick 22. Brilliant move all around. The ONLY way that trade saves any value is if Philly does not swap with the Kings this year and Kings were going to get a pick in the 22 range in 2019. Now that first part might have good odds of not happening (pick swap) but the second part of Kings being slated to get a pick around 22 in the 2019 draft anyway is so far from happening its not funny. In fact I would say any betting agency would give you excellent odds if you think Kings would be around the pick 22 mark in 2019 (i.e lower to mid range play off team).

And I am not even going to get into the strength of last year's draft and that in 2019. If the 2019 draft is considered to be better than the 2016 draft in terms of talent, then that trade looks even worse.

The trade made SOME sense if you were 100%, unconditionally moving forward with Cousins. Hell if might have made sense if you traded Cousins after the 2019 season but as of right now, that deal looks arguably as all time worst for the Kings in the franchise history. It really is simple when you remove the purple colored glasses and look at things objectively, without a hint of bias.

It is great that you can see into the future, but I am more willing to wait and see what happens in 2019, before declaring apocalypse on the Kings.

I will hold out judgement until the summer of 2019. Thank you very much, have a nice day.

 

[jcassio]

Actually I have a very hard time to understand the love Vlade Divac gets around here and why Kings Fans are looking down on Sam Hinkie.

Hinkie had a clear vision and followed an actual plan by going all in on it. Meanwhile Vlade Divac changed courses four times in 2 years, lost 2 of his 3 major trades with the result of the third still up in the air, had quite a few horrible FA signings, hasn't shown any talent to find overlooked players and never commited to anything to the fullest. Ultimately the Kings went nowhere under Divac and are once again at the start of a lengthy rebuilding process. All the concerns about our ownership aside, I still have a hard time to figure out, why people trust Vlade Divac to lead the Kings into a successful future.

For what it's worth, I can tell you that I don't have any love for Vlade the GM, and no love for Hinkie the Hustler. Maybe some people love one and hate the other, but not me. However, I think if we did hire the Hustler, we'd lose Vlade the Talent Evaluator (who might be worth having around), and eventually lose Joerger the Best Coach since Adelman, and we'd be bottom dwellers for the next five years - until Hinkie left or was fired. And you'd still have Vivek with his whimsical impulses. If Vlade can keep Vivek reeled in, the path we're on right now at least seems to be going forward and making progress.

 

[Kingster]

If you're a GM in 2017 and you think there is a decent chance you're going to "blow it up" you don't go out and mortgage the 2019 future #1 pick. I just can't wrap my mind around that one. So if you're assessing the body of work of Divac you've got to include that in the negative column.

Not only could the Kings be in bottom 10 of the league in 2019, there's a reasonable possibility they could be in the bottom 5. For one thing, if the Kings do get a high ceiling point guard in this draft, it is very likely that point guard is going to have major growing pains in the first couple of years in this league. And it's likely that the young point guard is going to take time away from a workman veteran point guard like a Collison, who does give more of an opportunity to win in the short term. (Collison has been absolutely instrumental to the wins against the Clips and the Grizzlies recently). A green point guard has got to be the first ingredient for concocting a losing season. Just imagine a green point guard with the bunch that we have out there now. It would be ugly. There are a lot more "opportunities" to be in the bottom 5 of this league in 2019 than there is to get to .500 ball, that's for sure.

 

[allrightythen]

If you're a GM in 2017 and you think there is a decent chance you're going to "blow it up" you don't go out and mortgage the 2019 future #1 pick. I just can't wrap my mind around that one. So if you're assessing the body of work of Divac you've got to include that in the negative column.

Not only could the Kings be in bottom 10 of the league in 2019, there's a reasonable possibility they could be in the bottom 5. For one thing, if the Kings do get a high ceiling point guard in this draft, it is very likely that point guard is going to have major growing pains in the first couple of years in this league. And it's likely that the young point guard is going to take time away from a workman veteran point guard like a Collison, who does give more of an opportunity to win in the short term. (Collison has been absolutely instrumental to the wins against the Clips and the Grizzlies recently). A green point guard has got to be the first ingredient for concocting a losing season. Just imagine a green point guard with the bunch that we have out there now. It would be ugly. There are a lot more "opportunities" to be in the bottom 5 of this league in 2019 than there is to get to .500 ball, that's for sure.

To be fair that trade was made in 2015 when they weren't in "blow it up mode." It's a terrible trade when juxtaposed with the Cousins trade and there's no way around that. We don't know it's impact until we see where that 2019 pick ends up. It may be a really good pick or it may not be. I think it's unreasonable to make judgments about that pick until it's actually conveyed and we have some idea what it is.

 

[ovrush]

From my standpoint one of them liquidated the assets of a low level playoff team trending downward without a star and got very good return for value.

The other one liquidated the assets of a near playoff team trending upward with a top ten player in the league and received terrible return for value.

Hinkie did much more with less. You can argue their draft successes and mistakes... but if Vlades a better talent evaluator make him a scout. The Kings could still theoretically luck out on the back end of the Boogie trade, but it Doesnt paper over the fact that Vlade executed one of the worst trades in league history on the front end. Between the Boogie trade and the draft swap trade Vlade should lose his job. There are only so many nba gm spots in the league, there shouldn't be this type of margin for mistakes.

Missing on a pick is one thing, it's an inexact science. Getting fleeced one trades with established assets is something else entirely.

Hinkie would be fine... others would be fine too. The Kings need a professional running things... and not an out of control owner or a lovable ex player for pr purposes.

 

[Kingster]

Vlade Divac had plenty of fair warning and experience about Cousins before he made the trade mortgaging the 2019 draft pick. It's not like was living in a bubble before that deal went down.

 

[Kingsfan23]

This is precisely the point I've been trying to get across to all these DeMarcus Cousins haters. It wasn't HIM. The team wasn't losing because of HIM. The problem has been and continues to be ownership and the front office situation. This newest mickey mouse maneuver is yet another example of it. As soon as the tsunami wave from the previous bad move finally starts to subside, they have to start another one. It's a true wash, rinse, repeat situation.

Stop focusing on players and focus on the real problem. THE GUYS that are actually drafting, acquiring and trading the players. They don't have the first damn clue. And it all begins with Vivek Ranadive.

No one thought it was him. I think 99% of those haters know he made the team better in the short term.

Is he more important than
Our pick (potentially)
Pelicans
Hield
Top 5 next year
And saving money on that super max as a plodder who was becoming more perimeter oriented

 

[gunks]

No one thought it was him. I think 99% of those haters know he made the team better in the short term.

Is he more important than
Our pick (potentially)
Pelicans
Hield
Top 5 next year
And saving money on that super max as a plodder who was becoming more perimeter oriented

There's no guarantee that we'll get a player who will impact the game like Cuz with either our pick or the Pel's. In fact, the chances are pretty damn low when one considers that Cuz is arguably a top 10 player.

Hield is an older rookie who was underperforming at the time of the trade. Hardly a young prospect that you'd trade a 28/11/5 big for. He can turn out alright, but he's no surefire allstar.

Top 5 next year? Again, no guarantee. There are a lot of doo doo teams in the league, we'll just be another turd on the **** pile.

And yes, you max a player like Cuz. Even with his pouts and techs.


Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for this all to work out. And I'll GLADLY eat a plate of crow if Vlade gets us some good prospects.

But the Cuz trade, and everything leading up to it, under Vlade's watch and others, has been awful move after awful move. Takes a lot of cool aid, and squinting through Homer goggles, to see otherwise.

 

[ovrush]

No one thought it was him. I think 99% of those haters know he made the team better in the short term.

Is he more important than
Our pick (potentially)
Pelicans
Hield
Top 5 next year
And saving money on that super max as a plodder who was becoming more perimeter oriented

It's not about Cousins for this team vs the return. It's about the return vs what a competent expeirienced gm actually working the phones without an artificial time line or player crush from the owner would have gotten in return for a top 10 nba player in his prime not on an ender.

 

[Kingsfan23]

It's not about Cousins for this team vs the return. It's about the return vs what a competent expeirienced gm actually working the phones without an artificial time line or player crush from the owner would have gotten in return for a top 10 nba player in his prime not on an ender.

I agree with that part. That's why I'd prefer Vlade not in charge. I don't think Hinkie takes the job and uses the overture from Vivek as leverage though

 

[ovrush]

I agree with that part. That's why I'd prefer Vlade not in charge. I don't think Hinkie takes the job and uses the overture from Vivek as leverage though

Agreed, I don't think any GM with options would come to the Kings until the proactive owner situation is resolved, and Hinkie is a big enough name that he will have options. The only GM type we would get is the Pete D type who is prepared to weasel for a job he isn't fully qualified for and yield a lot of key decisions to a meddlesome owner. It's a pretty unsolvable problem which is why the Kings are ranked last on ESPNs franchise leadership rankings that just came out by a large margin.

If, however, Hinkie does accept a job here, it most likely means there were serious talks about franchise control that happened, which is why hiring Hinkie would be a good sign... He's a fairly hot gm name... which means he doesn't have to come here unless he thinks the situation is right.

 

[Suicide King]

Jason Jones tweeted or mentioned somewhere Jason Levien as another possibility.

He was with us before, was CEO in Memphis when they made the WCF and hired Joerger.

 

[John Galt]

God y'all are depressing.

If we lose the 2019 and it's a high one, then 2020 will be a high one too and we'll just pick up there.

Kings fans whine whine whine whine gripe gripe gripe gripe... the sky hasn't fallen. the GM made a big win-now gamble that failed. so what. Did he do so much worse than the 10 years prior?

I prefer Vlade over the know-it-all Monday morning quarterbacks on this board... all day.

 

[Suicide King]

I am not as down on Vlade as some. I think his selections are solid thus far. I think the trade with PHX was a win for us.

I am more worried about the implications of the revelation that Vivek might be adding someone to the front office. I don't want to lose Joerger nor ship out a bunch of our youth already.

 

[gunks]

Jason Jones tweeted or mentioned somewhere Jason Levien as another possibility.

He was with us before, was CEO in Memphis when they made the WCF and hired Joerger.

Wouldn't mind this option. Groomed by Petrie. Oversaw a good team in Memphis.

The whole "coach hired before GM" issue that Vivek can't seem to wrap his arrogant mind around would (one would assume) be moot, considering Levien hired Joerger in Memphis (unless there is residual bad blood. I know Joerger left that franchise on iffy terms, but I haven't bothered to look up who he actually pissed off).

I'd prefer a modicum of stability for once though. But Vivek may have backed himself into yet another corner with the Vlade PR hire.

Ah well. At least I'm a masochist. Otherwise I'd be long gone!

 

[Kingsfan23]

I am not as down on Vlade as some. I think his selections are solid thus far. I think the trade with PHX was a win for us.

I am more worried about the implications of the revelation that Vivek might be adding someone to the front office. I don't want to lose Joerger nor ship out a bunch of our youth already.

Skal has the most upside IMO, and I can't give credit for Vlade selecting an obvious player falling in the draft like that

 

[hrdboild]

God y'all are depressing.

If we lose the 2019 and it's a high one, then 2020 will be a high one too and we'll just pick up there.

Kings fans whine whine whine whine gripe gripe gripe gripe... the sky hasn't fallen. the GM made a big win-now gamble that failed. so what. Did he do so much worse than the 10 years prior?

I prefer Vlade over the know-it-all Monday morning quarterbacks on this board... all day.

Then why come here? Not to be rude or anything, I'm seriously just asking out of curiosity. I thought Monday morning quarterbacking was the one thing all of us insufferable message boarders had in common.

 

[John Galt]

Then why come here? Not to be rude or anything, I'm seriously just asking out of curiosity. I thought Monday morning quarterbacking was the one thing all of us insufferable message boarders had in common.

I'm bullish on the Kings, so I come here. I'd flip the question on people who have nothing but negative to say about the Kings in the post DMC trade era. I think there are people here who hate everything, all the time. The constant repetitive over the top grousing about the Philly trade is just something I'm full up on.

 

[hrdboild]

I'm bullish on the Kings, so I come here. I'd flip the question on people who have nothing but negative to say about the Kings in the post DMC trade era. I think there are people here who hate everything, all the time. The constant repetitive over the top grousing about the Philly trade is just something I'm full up on.

I feel ya on that. There's a point at which nothing else is really left to be said about the trades which have already been made. They say the best players have a short memory when it comes to losses. Don't dwell on failure just learn what you can from it and focus on winning the next one. The same could be said for being a fan. There's always another game, another season, another draft, whatever the case may be. Better to focus on the opportunities those present instead of recounting what could have been.

 

[jcassio]

Skal has the most upside IMO, and I can't give credit for Vlade selecting an obvious player falling in the draft like that

Of course not. Vlade doesn't derserve credit for anything except his failures, and perhaps a few that are not his.

 

[jcassio]

I'm bullish on the Kings, so I come here. I'd flip the question on people who have nothing but negative to say about the Kings in the post DMC trade era. I think there are people here who hate everything, all the time. The constant repetitive over the top grousing about the Philly trade is just something I'm full up on.

I hear ya. I don't mind some negative, but it's the constant negativity from some posters that makes you wonder why they come to a "fans" site? Maybe they're bots? Either way, they must define "fan" a little differently than I do.

 

[Larry David]

If we lose the 2019 and it's a high one, then 2020 will be a high one too and we'll just pick up there.

Kings fans whine whine whine whine gripe gripe gripe gripe

As picking up back up with lottery picks in 2020 means 14 a year playoff drought. I'm not sure that being displeased about a decade and a half of self inflicted futility is whining. Some gripes have merit

 

[ParniValjak]

Wouldn't mind this option. Groomed by Petrie. Oversaw a good team in Memphis.

The whole "coach hired before GM" issue that Vivek can't seem to wrap his arrogant mind around would (one would assume) be moot, considering Levien hired Joerger in Memphis (unless there is residual bad blood. I know Joerger left that franchise on iffy terms, but I haven't bothered to look up who he actually pissed off).

I'd prefer a modicum of stability for once though. But Vivek may have backed himself into yet another corner with the Vlade PR hire.

Ah well. At least I'm a masochist. Otherwise I'd be long gone!

Is Levien still with Memphis or has he been shown the door when the new ownership bought the team?

I am not sure is Levien was exactly Petrie's understudy. He was brought in as one after having managed Kevin Martin but he lasted a season before leaving and I seem to recall that it didn't end on good terms between him and Petrie.

He would be a solid pick up but I am not sure what his talent evaluation skills are like. He was an ex agent who I don't believe played the game. I think you need someone who knows the game and uses analytics to underpin what his eyes tell him.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Is Levien still with Memphis or has he been shown the door when the new ownership bought the team?

I am not sure is Levien was exactly Petrie's understudy. He was brought in as one after having managed Kevin Martin but he lasted a season before leaving and I seem to recall that it didn't end on good terms between him and Petrie.

He would be a solid pick up but I am not sure what his talent evaluation skills are like. He was an ex agent who I don't believe played the game. I think you need someone who knows the game and uses analytics to underpin what his eyes tell him.

I always heard that it was not coincidental that the previously tight-lipped ship under Petrie sprung a few leaks during Levein's tenure.

 

[ParniValjak]

Of course not. Vlade doesn't derserve credit for anything except his failures, and perhaps a few that are not his.

Let's be fair here. Vlade's deals on draft night was excellent moves. I say Vlade's because he is a front men for this but to claim Skal as his great work is just stretching it a little too far. Vlade himself overlooked Skal TWICE in favor of Papagiannis and Richardson. If he really rated Skal that highly then he would have picked him up over those 2 (and in reality, he should have as Skal is more talented than either of Papagiannis or Richardson).

With the Skal pick, he got a bit lucky. He even said in the presser after draft that Skal is a project and that he doesn't expect much of him and he expect Papagiannis to contribute straight away and be for the team "Something like Willie was last season". Vlade's words, not mine. That pretty much confirms that he rated Papagiannis higher than Skal. Concerning?

 

[jpsls]

Let's be fair here. Vlade's deals on draft night was excellent moves. I say Vlade's because he is a front men for this but to claim Skal as his great work is just stretching it a little too far. Vlade himself overlooked Skal TWICE in favor of Papagiannis and Richardson. If he really rated Skal that highly then he would have picked him up over those 2 (and in reality, he should have as Skal is more talented than either of Papagiannis or Richardson).

With the Skal pick, he got a bit lucky. He even said in the presser after draft that Skal is a project and that he doesn't expect much of him and he expect Papagiannis to contribute straight away and be for the team "Something like Willie was last season". Vlade's words, not mine. That pretty much confirms that he rated Papagiannis higher than Skal. Concerning?

Skal's stock was dropping because he had a horrific freshman year. Just because he was picked after Malachai and Papagiannis doesn't mean he thought any less of him. If the Kings had intel that Skal would be dropping towards the end of the first round, why use a higher pick to draft him when you can simply take him later?

 

[King Baller]

.....

 

[King Baller]

Let's be fair here. Vlade's deals on draft night was excellent moves. I say Vlade's because he is a front men for this but to claim Skal as his great work is just stretching it a little too far. Vlade himself overlooked Skal TWICE in favor of Papagiannis and Richardson. If he really rated Skal that highly then he would have picked him up over those 2 (and in reality, he should have as Skal is more talented than either of Papagiannis or Richardson).

With the Skal pick, he got a bit lucky. He even said in the presser after draft that Skal is a project and that he doesn't expect much of him and he expect Papagiannis to contribute straight away and be for the team "Something like Willie was last season". Vlade's words, not mine. That pretty much confirms that he rated Papagiannis higher than Skal. Concerning?

Skal is on the Kings. Don't matter where he was drafted. He was chosen to be a King By Vlade. Bam bam my prove to have a nice place in the NBA, we don't know yet.

Lucky? Hell the Spurs have been lucky. Who on the GSW drafted Curry? Flat Top did, now that is luck