[Rumor]Kings/Ranadive interested in Sam Hinkie

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#91
Hinkie would be a great hire. Whats funny is, that people seem to know in advance what strategy he would employ with the Kings. Yes he tanked with the 76ers. But wasnt that a viable strategy for a franchise, that had a PG with health issues and was pretty much locked in the treadmill?
Our situation is entirely different. We have some young pieces already un place. So why should signing Hinkie automaticely mean tanking for years to come?
Bottom line is Hinkie is a professional, experienced GM with a good to great trade record. Hinkie and Joerger would make this franchise at least respectable on the FO and coaching Level again.
Because hiring the coach before the GM has worked out so well for us in the past.
 
#93
Because hiring the coach before the GM has worked out so well for us in the past.
No and I agree, that this is the one point of concern. Before hiring a New GM it has to be absolutely clear, that the New guy and Joerger are on the same page. We can't afford to lose a good Coach.
But in my mind there is no doubt, that a Hinkie+Joerger tandem is simply vastly superior to a Vlade+Joerger tandem.
 
#95
I like posting here, so I won't respond with what I actually think of this nonsense.

Just because Embiid looks unfortunately broken, doesn't mean his process was wrong. And if they do get him healthy (giant ass IF, but there's still an IF to be had) he's going to be a top 10 player in the game. Saric looks like an absolute stud and an outstanding Point-forward. You get that Ben Simmons guy healthy for next year. You have a 45% chance to have 2 top 7 picks in the best draft since 2003. He found very productive players in T.J McConnel, Richaun Holmes and Robert Covington. He fleeced team after team in trades. Hinkie set this team up to actually have a chance at being a title contender, rather than our personal test of trying to win 35 games.

The best part is Hinkie would stop all the nonsense of Vivek and other outside factors try and influence team decisions. It'd be him and his staff running the show and we would finally be able to get that monkey off our back.
Yet even with all the wonderful GM work Hinkie has done Philly has a worse record than the Kings. IMO Hinkie is fools gold, a sham and a con man.
 
#97
Once again hiring the Coach before the GM cannot work. There can only be one man in charge of Basketball Operations.

Here we are staring at the most important Draft in a long while and we get this crap. What the heck is Vivek thinking?

You guys want to be Philly 2.0? I can't freaking believe it. First the Malone debacle. Then trading DMC. And now this? Vivek is out of his freaking mind.

The timing is incredibly bad on this.
 
#98
Kings have been in win now mode for years.
At some point, Vivek is unsure whether he has the right front office in place.
Kings abruptly shift into rebuild mode in February 2017 by trading their franchise player.
Kings, who could have held Cousins until draft and thus opened up more options for trades, continue to think ... hmm, maybe we should tinker with the front office that just made franchise altering trade.
Kings request and get permission to talk to Hinkie
Hinkie not interest and Kings worried about blow back issue statement "That they aren't hiring Hinkie" not refuting that they requested permission to speak with Hinkie and/or spoke with Hinkie.

I don't know that's the timeline ... but the Kings biggest issue for a decade is they've been a rudderless ship. If the foundation remains bad, it isn't going to matter how many of the prospects pan out.
This post x100.

Does it really matter who we trade for? Who we hire? Who is coach......... if the guy ultimately pulling the strings is a basketball moron?

He doesn't seem to be learning from his many many many many many many many many many mistakes. What is there to be hopeful about if Vivek keeps changing direction every couple of years? How easy is it to change this guys mind?

I'm so angry about this rudderless franchise I just want to F'ing scream!!!!!!!!!!
 
#99
Once again hiring the Coach before the GM cannot work. There can only be one man in charge of Basketball Operations.

Here we are staring at the most important Draft in a long while and we get this crap. What the heck is Vivek thinking?

You guys want to be Philly 2.0? I can't freaking believe it. First the Malone debacle. Then trading DMC. And now this? Vivek is out of his freaking mind.

The timing is incredibly bad on this.
Carmichael Dave talked to a well regarded NBA reporter the day of the cousins trade and he couldn't stress enough that vlade and Vivek had to get on the right track before this draft because this team ABSOLUTLEY has to do right in this draft. They need to get it right.

Well, pulling this sh** right before the lottery doesn't instill tons of confidence in this kings fan.
 
What exactly is it that makes Hinkie so good?

The Sixers are terrible, lose more than anyone and then get a top 3 pick every year.

Who would have thunk that having the worst record in the league would land you a top pick in the draft? This guy is like Einstein levels of genius!
 
Are you watching the games? Buddy has shown star potential with a 63% TS and 15 PPG. He won the game yesterday though WCS made the game winner. He's old for a rookie but so was Curry and I think the Warriors are happy with how that old geezer worked out. :cool: I am not saying Buddy will be Curry but if shows average development, he is a borderline all-star at 20-24 PPG. I would call that "legit potential". If you factor in his high character and renowned work ethic, you fairly can conclude his development will at least be average, probably more so!
You're wrong. Curry came into the league as a 21 yearold. Hield was turning 23.
 
What exactly is it that makes Hinkie so good?

The Sixers are terrible, lose more than anyone and then get a top 3 pick every year.

Who would have thunk that having the worst record in the league would land you a top pick in the draft? This guy is like Einstein levels of genius!
Was just going to post something like this. Literally anyone could have did what he did which is trade off assets, keep and take flyers on young guys, fill out roster with Carl Landry types to reach cap floor.

Here's the thing though, I really think he screwed Philly by continually drafting the bigs. Hinkie may be the most overrated GM out there. Not saying he's terrible but he's so overrated.
 
What exactly is it that makes Hinkie so good?

The Sixers are terrible, lose more than anyone and then get a top 3 pick every year.

Who would have thunk that having the worst record in the league would land you a top pick in the draft? This guy is like Einstein levels of genius!
Then why couldn't the Kings do that?

2011: 7th pick
2012: 5th pick
2013: 7th pick
2014: 8th pick
2015: 6th pick
2016: 8th pick

We can't even tank right. Decide to rebuild, but didn't trade any vets outside of cutting Barnes. Decide to rebuild, yet still decide to go 4-4 for our last 8. This might be why we need Hinkie. However, I don't think we need to can Vlade this soon unless he pulls another dumbass Philly trade 2.0. Vivek is ahead of himself.
 
This is it 100%. The Kings need stability over and above everything else. Changing the Front Office now is just another version of "Nik Rocks".

STOP IT VIVEK!!!!!!!!
I disagree. IMO, the Kings are both poorly owned and poorly run by a front office that is both unqualified and understaffed in scouting and people who get how a modern front office works. The Kings have one summer with two picks before the assets dry up big time for 23 months. Odds favor that the Kings are still bad in 2019, the Kings convey a super high pick the 76ers, and the Kings are prepared to deal with the fan fallout of completely blowing out Vlade and firing him. Odds favor that's the track they are on.

Vivek is the king of "Oh, that's interesting let's try that" so he's probably now interested in how the Lakers made Magic the face of the franchise for fans and some players meetings, but Jeannie and Pelinka are going to do the long term planning and have the most say in most of the move.

As compared to just letting Vlade try to swim or sink over the next 18 months and particular the next 3, it probably makes sense to take his hand off the wheel, make him the figurehead face they initially hired him to be, and if he and Peja are displease and/or leave ... so be it because they are on track to be out in 18-36 months anyhow.

Vivek is an impatient guy with bad instincts, but the Kings talent and structure up top is not good. Not making change does not always equal stability.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Could you elaborate?
With respect to what was said in the pregame (I assume)? Unfortunately, Ham and others talked with certainty about the organization wanting to strengthen itself, but in generalities about how exactly they would do so. I was waiting for Koz to ask a couple of questions of what exactly such "strengthening" would look like, but it never happened.

Ahh, now I see the part you bolded. There was one statement on that; nothing specific. I'll see if I can wind back the DVR to quote the exact sentence on the NBA role.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Isn't this exactly what Ken Catanella was brought in for.

I think I have been pretty vocal in my lack of trust in Vlade since Cousins trade. That has not changed so essentially, I am not exactly against the change but I am not sure that Hinkie is really an answer. He is analytics nerd who has no real basketball background and does not know how to evaluate talent any other way than using the spreadsheet. One thing he has done really well is accumulate assets for the Sixers.

Now the way I see it, Vlade might have some value in the franchise but he should not be allowed anywhere near negotiations table. When it comes to negotiating trades lock him away from the room. When it comes to draft, lock Vivek out please.

What I would like to see if for Vlade to take a background role there. Still be a consultant of sorts or even a president of basketball operations but let a GM do the real GM job. I think I like Catanella. I look at the off-season last year and I think a lot of that has Ken's input. Trading back to replenish youth and get more assets, essentially expiring contracts for FAs except Temple. There are a few smart moves there. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a real GM who does all the work and fronts up the press conferences. If I recall correctly, he worked for the NBA, played basketball himself, understands the CBA and cap really well so a good portion of the skill set is there.

One thing is for certain, things CANNOT go on like they have since Vivek bought the team. Vlade cannot keep doing what he is doing. Successful GMs are out there scouting most of the time, they are barely in the office. Vlade barely leaves Sacramento. He would have hardly watched any college games in person this season. Front office does need a major influx of quality, experienced people who know what they are doing and who are working their backside off each and every day. I am not sure Vlade works as hard as his role requires. Making basketball decisions requires a heck of a lot of heavy lifting and I am not convinced that Vlade does anywhere near enough of what is required.

And that is not even accounting for the fact that Vivek has patience and attention span of a cranky 6 month old with ADD.
I didn't know that Catanella was involved in the strategy to trade down in the draft. Is something that was widely reported (that I missed) or is it something that was inferred from what happened?
 
Was just going to post something like this. Literally anyone could have did what he did which is trade off assets, keep and take flyers on young guys, fill out roster with Carl Landry types to reach cap floor.

Here's the thing though, I really think he screwed Philly by continually drafting the bigs. Hinkie may be the most overrated GM out there. Not saying he's terrible but he's so overrated.
Why did he draft Oakhfor over Russell? That needs to be answered if Hinkie even flew into my city if I was an owner.
 
Loyalty stops where incompetence begins. Vlade botched the Boogie trade royally.
we are a complete farce. Vlade will be forever remembered for that trade.

If we had competent management you wait before making a significant trade like that, you dont do in then bring in a new GM to pick up the pieces - seriously this is just another in the long list of Vivek led decisions that wreak of flavor of the month.

Forever rudderless, there is no direction.

If i was Hinkie im straight up asking for all power and negotiating the biggest severance clauses, ripping the Kings for the second time and laughing all the way to the bank when Vivek doesnt like what he sees. Easy pay day just like the one Karl earned. Just play hard to get for now Sam and you'll get everything you want.

Viveks probably whispering you sweet nothings...'we're going to get you Sam, we're going to get you'
 
One more thing I wanted to add. Vivek is on incredibly thin ice with the fans. One thing that could break the camels back is if he were to fire VLADE freaking DIVAC who besides the Philly trade is beloved by the fans no matter what a few outspoken fans might say. It's why you don't hire friends and family in business because it becomes personal when you have to fire them.

You have been warned Vivek!
 
Then why couldn't the Kings do that?

2011: 7th pick
2012: 5th pick
2013: 7th pick
2014: 8th pick
2015: 6th pick
2016: 8th pick

We can't even tank right. Decide to rebuild, but didn't trade any vets outside of cutting Barnes. Decide to rebuild, yet still decide to go 4-4 for our last 8. This might be why we need Hinkie. However, I don't think we need to can Vlade this soon unless he pulls another dumbass Philly trade 2.0. Vivek is ahead of himself.
Philly has picked Simmons, Okafor and Embiid with a 1st, 3rd and 3rd pick in the draft. The Kings haven't picked higher than 5th and we've also never even moved up 1 single spot in the lottery. We either stay where we're at or we move backward.

I'm with you on the tanking right point. Winning these games against playoff teams with a bunch of tanking teams coming up with awful. Problem is that you can't make the players tank and you can't make the coach tank. All you can do is adjust the roster so tanking is inevitable.

I just don't think Hinkie did anything special while he was in Philly. I don't see anything there that some random semi educated fan off the street could have done. He took a chance on some picks, played it safe on some picks and traded away assets for future youth assets. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
 
One more thing I wanted to add. Vivek is on incredibly thin ice with the fans. One thing that could break the camels back is if he were to fire VLADE freaking DIVAC who besides the Philly trade is beloved by the fans no matter what a few outspoken fans might say. It's why you don't hire friends and family in business because it becomes personal when you have to fire them.

You have been warned Vivek!
Seconded, except I don't see the Philly trade as badly as most. If anyone cares to argue this state in a couple of plain non-flowery sentences what Divac gave away UP UNTIL THIS POINT IN TIME.
 
You're wrong. Curry came into the league as a 21 year old. Hield was turning 23.
Excuse me where did I say they were the same age? Curry was an "old rookie" compared to one-and-done freshman who come into league at 19 like Tyreke did in that same draft. Curry was 21 and 3 months when he was drafted. Hield was 22 and 6 months when he was drafted. Nice try adding 6 months to his age to make him seem older.
 
Stop. Just stop. Just let something happen for once!
Vivek needs to step back and let things play out for once!

Us fans really hate these knee jerk reactions Vivek always makes!

The fans want something we can latch on to and cheer for, not constant changes every time the freaking wind blows in a different direction!

Vivek, please give Vlade the 2 years he ask for to reshape this team, we are looking pretty good so far and this team is really working it's a$! off!
 
Seconded, except I don't see the Philly trade as badly as most. If anyone cares to argue this state in a couple of plain non-flowery sentences what Divac gave away UP UNTIL THIS POINT IN TIME.
Until this point in time, nice. Nice move of the goal posts. That's not quite like saying, tell me what's wrong with the travel experience of the Titanic UP UNTIL 15 minutes before it hit the iceberg ... but come on. I doubt they convey anything this summer either, and yet its still a horrible trade.

It was horrible 10 minutes after they made the trade for reasons that have been detailed (if folks can't see that or want to look past it, to each their own) That they mortgaged and gambled so much when the simply didn't have to was stupid when they were committed to packing the building until the new wore off with 2-3 seasons of playoff runs and resigning Cousins was stupid.

That they gave up an unprotected 2019 pick to go for broke and "win now", and just 18 months later they decide to totally blow it up and rebuild, is INSANE. Again, INSANE. If you are thinking "You know, maybe we take a stab at gunning for the 2017 - 2019 playoffs, but if things don't pan out we've gotta be prepared to hit the rest button" you cannot make the 76ers trade. You can't. Conversely, if you are tossing out unprotected picks and pick swaps because you don't want to carry 5 million of dead money against a 100 million dollar cap without a firm decision of when you're prepared to blow it up ... that's even way worse.

And I'm pretty sure it's the latter. They got no bites in free agency, Rondo and Mathews were languishing a bit, and the Kings wanted to match a lets pair you two up and overpay pitch and somehow decided that clearing the cap before they got their commitments would show them they were for real. So, they did the 76ers trade without using the stretch provision, either because they didn't get it or because they were so sure they would be good that they'd need that extra 5 million to push them higher.

Later ... after years of win now moves or engaging Cousins offers ... they just abruptly shift course and trade Cousins over the course of a weekend.

For a while, the Kings have dealt with a structural issue that Vlade doesn't have at least the reps and perhaps the chops to be a GM, but they've decided to keep that structure intact because they like Vlade. Lakers make Magic the face but not the GM, and now the Kings are shopping for a GM.

All of these plus the Mike Malone thing shows that the Kings are stubbornly prepared to swim upstream and suffer the lost opportunity costs along the way ... until the owner abruptly gets a whim and pivots and the house of cards falls in again.

He's owned the team for four seasons. This is the third spring in a row where the franchise has totally flat lined and the owner was contemplating who should be his coach and/or GM. This is nowhere near normal. Not even close.
 
I disagree. IMO, the Kings are both poorly owned and poorly run by a front office that is both unqualified and understaffed in scouting and people who get how a modern front office works. The Kings have one summer with two picks before the assets dry up big time for 23 months. Odds favor that the Kings are still bad in 2019, the Kings convey a super high pick the 76ers, and the Kings are prepared to deal with the fan fallout of completely blowing out Vlade and firing him. Odds favor that's the track they are on.
The Kings still have their first round pick in 2018, so the bolded statement is not accurate.
 
Then why couldn't the Kings do that?

2011: 7th pick
2012: 5th pick
2013: 7th pick
2014: 8th pick
2015: 6th pick
2016: 8th pick

We can't even tank right. Decide to rebuild, but didn't trade any vets outside of cutting Barnes. Decide to rebuild, yet still decide to go 4-4 for our last 8. This might be why we need Hinkie. However, I don't think we need to can Vlade this soon unless he pulls another dumbass Philly trade 2.0. Vivek is ahead of himself.
Just because the Kings haven't been good, doesn't make Hinkie's failure in Philadelphia any better.
 
Other owners need to man up, find themselves a buyer for Vivek's shares, and kick that goblin to the curb.

And of course they're denying these rumors now, because it's such a bad look. But every time there's been smoke, there's been fire. .... and that flaming bag of dog poop is Vivek.
We as fans may not have a chair on the board but we can vote with our wallets. I'm sharpening my pitchfork now ONE more meddling move that sets us back I'm going to organize a movement to boycott this ####.