Rudy Gay Plans To Opt Out (ESPN)

#65
I was relatively ambivalent about Rudy opting in or opting out.

On the one hand, he's going to likely miss a chunk of the season and odds are that he'll be around 70% as effective as he was before with a good chance of injuring himself again. And the biggest issue is that I just don't think Gay plays a winning brand of basketball, something that is exacerbated by the way the game has changed over the last few years.

On the other hand, he's a good veteran for the young players to be around and at the very least would be an ending contract for trade purposes. And I shouldn't think this way, but there's also a part of me that feels like Rudy's contract would help limit the Kings ability to make terrible FA signings.

But now he's out and it's full speed ahead for the rebuild. Vlade & co now have an extra $14 million to help reshape this roster however they'd like.

This is a make or break offseason for this front office.
 
#66
Yeah, I'm not exactly celebrating that Rudy is opting out either. On a 1 year expiring deal he would have been around to help mentor the kids, filled in as our stopgap SF if we don't get one in the draft (or even if we do and want to bring them along slowly) and we could have flipped him at the deadline for a second round pick or something. It's not like the cap space is going to matter at this point. It actually might have been better for us if he opted in. But what this does for us is help to clean the slate a year earlier and allow us the option of absorbing bad contracts to acquire assets.

I also don't see the free agent market bringing in anything worthwhile. Best-case really is that we find another Garrett Temple but then you're also taking minutes away from a prospect and giving them to a role-player and those guys are all going to want 3+ years of job security if they're good enough to demand it. Cap space won't really matter for us again until we need to re-sign our first round picks or we're one or two pieces away from advancing to the second round of the playoffs.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#67
I wish Rudy all the luck in the world. I think his rehab must be going very well for him to decide to walk away from that much money.

Thanks, Rudy, for not being a total arse when you came to the Kings and quickly saw the coach you liked fired and the whole front office turn into a crapstorm. I appreciate your loyalty.
 
#69
If this team really is banking on ball movement type offense with increased pace, Rudy Gay is an ill fit. It's a win win situation that he opted out. There really is enough vet presence from Temple, AT, and Koufos to help mentor the young guys and a head coach and staff who won't allow the young guys to play the wrong way.
 
#70
If this team really is banking on ball movement type offense with increased pace, Rudy Gay is an ill fit. It's a win win situation that he opted out. There really is enough vet presence from Temple, AT, and Koufos to help mentor the young guys and a head coach and staff who won't allow the young guys to play the wrong way.
But he is also the type that has been successful at the end of games when you need a basket.
 
#71
I don't see it that way.

Can save some of that capspace for next offseason.
They probably SHOULD save capspace for next season. Or use it to take on bad contracts from other teams in exchange for a draft pick or a promising young player.

I'm not saying Vlade & co need to fully "fix" the team this offseason. But they DO need to move in the right direction.

Having a good draft and make smart signings can set the team up for future success.

Having a bad draft and poor/dumb signings likely means Divac will be out as GM sooner than later.
 
#72
They probably SHOULD save capspace for next season. Or use it to take on bad contracts from other teams in exchange for a draft pick or a promising young player.

I'm not saying Vlade & co need to fully "fix" the team this offseason. But they DO need to move in the right direction.

Having a good draft and make smart signings can set the team up for future success.

Having a bad draft and poor/dumb signings likely means Divac will be out as GM sooner than later.
Haven't had any catastrophic signings yet, by Vlade. Couple misses, Barnes, Bellinelli. Drafting has been excellent. I have a lot more confidence in Vlade than Vivek, and hopefully he'll act with prudence and caution. Ultimately I think that's what trading Cousins was about: moving away from a high risk player and moving towards an "anti-fragile" team model.
 
#73
Haven't had any catastrophic signings yet, by Vlade. Couple misses, Barnes, Bellinelli. Drafting has been excellent. I have a lot more confidence in Vlade than Vivek, and hopefully he'll act with prudence and caution. Ultimately I think that's what trading Cousins was about: moving away from a high risk player and moving towards an "anti-fragile" team model.
For me the Bellinelli signing was a success. Vlade manufactured a first round draft pick when he traded Marco away. IMO trading Marco for the pick that became Malachi Richardson is a direct result of the Philly trade. Koufos is the other asset still producing from that deal.

Matt Barnes played a hard nosed brand of basketball while a King. Not much in the stat department but other teams players he was checking knew he was there. I thought he played good defense and had his teammates backs. There is value in that.
 
#74
For me the Bellinelli signing was a success. Vlade manufactured a first round draft pick when he traded Marco away. IMO trading Marco for the pick that became Malachi Richardson is a direct result of the Philly trade. Koufos is the other asset still producing from that deal.

Matt Barnes played a hard nosed brand of basketball while a King. Not much in the stat department but other teams players he was checking knew he was there. I thought he played good defense and had his teammates backs. There is value in that.
Exactly.

I overstated my point to induce a response like this, to prove that Vlade is indeed a fantastic GM.

These were his "worst" moves.

Vlade has been nothing but a success since he got here. Of course the jury is still out on the Cousins trade, but his other moves have been good to great.

Edit: Turning Belinelli into Malachi is his most underrated move. Basically he made a potential future borderline all-star appear out of a magic hat. Malachi is very much the real deal, and has a long future in this league as a solid rotation player if not starter on a competitive team. I see him as our future starting 2 guard, and if we keep Ben, Ben being our 6th/7th man, flash scoring off the bench. Malachi is too smart and complete of a player to come off the bench, where as I think Ben would thrive with that lower pressure role, as long as his minutes were consistent.
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
#75
I was relatively ambivalent about Rudy opting in or opting out.

On the one hand, he's going to likely miss a chunk of the season and odds are that he'll be around 70% as effective as he was before with a good chance of injuring himself again. And the biggest issue is that I just don't think Gay plays a winning brand of basketball, something that is exacerbated by the way the game has changed over the last few years.

On the other hand, he's a good veteran for the young players to be around and at the very least would be an ending contract for trade purposes. And I shouldn't think this way, but there's also a part of me that feels like Rudy's contract would help limit the Kings ability to make terrible FA signings.

But now he's out and it's full speed ahead for the rebuild. Vlade & co now have an extra $14 million to help reshape this roster however they'd like.

This is a make or break offseason for this front office.
I see this off season as one of the most important in a long time, but I don't see it as a make or break off season. It's an off season where he have to show progress, and look like a functional organization. Any significant free agents that we might be able to sign, we'll probably have to overpay. The trick is to find hidden value that's not being recognized by a players team. Do you think Oklahoma would have traded Harden for what they did, it they knew what he was capable of? They saw him as a certain kind of player, but Houston him in a different light. Not saying it's easy to do, but it is a way to steal a future star. In a sense, that's how we got Webber.

As I said, the trick going forward is to remain patient. Don't get desperate and sign a Deng to huge 4 year contract. Sometimes the best deal is no deal. I want to win as much as anyone, but I want it done right this time. That said, I'm not opposed to hitting a home run and making a quantum leap.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#76
Haven't had any catastrophic signings yet, by Vlade. Couple misses, Barnes, Bellinelli. Drafting has been excellent. I have a lot more confidence in Vlade than Vivek, and hopefully he'll act with prudence and caution. Ultimately I think that's what trading Cousins was about: moving away from a high risk player and moving towards an "anti-fragile" team model.
Not to nic pic, but to me, Barnes wasn't a miss. By that, I mean he was exactly what I thought he would be. I'm speaking about his on court activities, not his off court. That's a separate discussion. Probably depends on your expectations.
 
#77
This is what I think the roster should look like on July 1st, heading into the free agency season.

1. Koufos
2. WCS
3. Papagiannis
4. Labissiere
5. Tolliver
6. Temple
7. Hield
8. Richardson
9. Bogdanovic
10. Galloway
11. 8th pick in the draft
12. 10th pick in the draft

There are a couple of unknowns there in Bogdanovic and Galloway. I feel pretty confident about Bogdanovic being here. My guess is the Galloway opt's in, but who knows for sure.

With Gay opting out, the Kings could have as much as $55,279,900.00 in cap space. That's assuming that they buyout Afflalo and let McLemore walk. The problem will be how do you spend that money on three roster spots. Nice problem to have. Of course if Galloway opt's out, then we have four roster spots. Plus, the Kings could also buyout Tolliver, which would give them additional cap space and another roster spot.

In general, the Kings are sitting in very good position for a rebuilding team. They already have some nice young talent on the team. They have the ability to add to that talent through the draft this year, and they have tons of cap space available. The trick now is use that money intelligently with the future in mind. Plan for 5 or 6 years down the road. The Lakers were in a similar situation a year ago, and then went out and spent a ton of money, over paying Mozgov and Deng on long term contracts. They did exactly what you shouldn't do, and they've lost most of their cap flexibility. Couldn't happen to a nicer team.

In short, the Kings need to draft wisely, spend wisely, and be patient. If the player your looking for isn't there, or won't sign, then don't settle for second best, especially on a long term contract. Do more contracts like the Afflalo and Tolliver contracts. Plug the holes temporally and don't tie up money long term. Forget about winning now, and build something that will win for years to come. AKA the Spurs, Warriors, and perhaps the Jazz. To coin a phrase, "Build it, and they will come".
time to do what the sixers did to us and rent out the capspace for bad contract+young players/picks
 
#78
Not to nic pic, but to me, Barnes wasn't a miss. By that, I mean he was exactly what I thought he would be. I'm speaking about his on court activities, not his off court. That's a separate discussion. Probably depends on your expectations.
I think he was mostly what we wanted out of him (off court antics aside). I don't think we'd have waived him had we not decided to move on from DMC, but once the trade went down we had to clear some space and it was probably mutual so he could go some place and hope to contribute.
 
#79
I hope we can utilize Rudy in a sign-and-trade, that allows a team in cap trouble an opportunity to sign Rudy at his price, and we absorb a bad contract and some incentivizing piece (draft pick/buried prospect)
 
#80
I hope we can utilize Rudy in a sign-and-trade, that allows a team in cap trouble an opportunity to sign Rudy at his price, and we absorb a bad contract and some incentivizing piece (draft pick/buried prospect)
I don't think we have any rights once/if Rudy opts out. Which I will remain skeptical of until the ink is dry.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#81
I don't think we have any rights once/if Rudy opts out. Which I will remain skeptical of until the ink is dry.
Well we would have his Bird rights, but in all likely hood, we'll relinquish those rights to get rid of the cap hold. At which point he becomes a totally free unrestricted freeagent. However, if we wanted to do a sign an trade, we could offer Gay more than any other team. Of course he would have to agree to sign, and then the other team would have to agree to make a trade. Personally, I'd just let him walk, and move on.
 
#82
Not to nic pic, but to me, Barnes wasn't a miss. By that, I mean he was exactly what I thought he would be. I'm speaking about his on court activities, not his off court. That's a separate discussion. Probably depends on your expectations.
I guess I'm still pissed cause he cost us the Bulls game after the 20 something point comeback. I was in the 8th row for that one.

But largely I agree. Not a miss.


So what you're saying is Vlade has had virtually zero misses when it comes to FA signings and draft picks?

Huh.
 
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#83
Well we would have his Bird rights, but in all likely hood, we'll relinquish those rights to get rid of the cap hold. At which point he becomes a totally free unrestricted freeagent. However, if we wanted to do a sign an trade, we could offer Gay more than any other team. Of course he would have to agree to sign, and then the other team would have to agree to make a trade. Personally, I'd just let him walk, and move on.
You don't renounce until you actually need the cap space to sign him.
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
#84
Well we would have his Bird rights, but in all likely hood, we'll relinquish those rights to get rid of the cap hold. At which point he becomes a totally free unrestricted freeagent. However, if we wanted to do a sign an trade, we could offer Gay more than any other team. Of course he would have to agree to sign, and then the other team would have to agree to make a trade. Personally, I'd just let him walk, and move on.
I'm not 100% sure that we'll relinquish Rudy's cap hold. Looks like we're going to have about $57M in cap holds (a lot, to be sure) but $16M of that is Tyreke, and I'm pretty sure THAT cap hold is the first to go. That would leave us with about $41M in cap holds, with Rudy being at about $20M. That should leave us some room to work, and given that another $10M of that is for McLemore, there are other ways to get rid of that hold money, if we need it (e.g., for Bogdanovic). But we probably sit back and see if anybody offers anything, unless we really need that cap space (or we actually turn around and sign him ourselves!)
 
#85
Exactly.

I overstated my point to induce a response like this, to prove that Vlade is indeed a fantastic GM.

These were his "worst" moves.

Vlade has been nothing but a success since he got here. Of course the jury is still out on the Cousins trade, but his other moves have been good to great.

Edit: Turning Belinelli into Malachi is his most underrated move. Basically he made a potential future borderline all-star appear out of a magic hat. Malachi is very much the real deal, and has a long future in this league as a solid rotation player if not starter on a competitive team. I see him as our future starting 2 guard, and if we keep Ben, Ben being our 6th/7th man, flash scoring off the bench. Malachi is too smart and complete of a player to come off the bench, where as I think Ben would thrive with that lower pressure role, as long as his minutes were consistent.

Not to derail the thread, but basically the exact opposite is true. He utterly failed to put a winner next to Cousins and wasted 2 years we could have already been rebuilding.
 
#86
We will never know if another GM would have done a better or worse job with the given situation. We are truly starting a different era with Rudy likely leaving. We are in pretty good shape for a rebuild, seemingly by design of this front office. Let's hope a successful plan comes to fruition moving forward.
 
#87
Lots of people dislike because of his game, but I really liked Rudy. People forget that before Rudy, the Kings were desperate for a SF. We went through the likes of Francisco, Casspi, Salmons, Honeycutt, Outlaw, and D. Williams. We just weren't able to find a starting SF since Artest. After every signing, it became the joking game of "Do the Kings have a SF yet?: NO". Rudy was traded to Sacramento and a lot of people had mixed feelings. I was ecstatic. He was a 18ppg scorer at Memphis, but was thrusted into the wrong situation in Toronto.

Rudy came in, and positively contributed right away. He fit perfectly next to IT and Cousins as the equalizer. He was a player who could slow down the offense and control the mid-range game. Things started clicking towards the end of the year. Kings finished something like 20-21 when all of IT-Gay-Cousins played. Kings games started becoming exciting, and for the first time, in a long time, things looked like they were finally getting things right. Rudy eventually decided to resign with the Kings...because he actually wanted to be here. He actually wanted to be a King. Unfortunately, no one could've predicted this end result.

Even with that, through his 4 years as a King, he showed up to every game ready and prepared. He gave his 100% every night and didn't let external factors bother his game on the court. Through the turmoil of FO, he was a completely pro. As a King, he's 10th overall in franchise history with his career PPG. Without letting nostalgia get the best of me, Rudy is on my list for Top 10 Sacramento King of all time. In the end, I'm glad we had 4 years of Rudy. This is probably his last lap around the league, and I hope he gets a ring. Rudy will be one of my favorite Kings from this era.
You really think he gave 100% every night? One of the main reasons I am happy we are most likely finally parting ways with Rudy is because of the effort he gave. Sure when it came to offense he pulled out all of the stops, but he rarely ever tried on the defensive end and he was a horrible motivator for the team. He reminded me of Jay Cutler in that he never really cared if the team was winning or losing. That's what I like so much about Garrett Temple. He really seems to care about the outcome of the game and having the back of all of his team mates. I never really got that impression from Rudy Gay.
 
#88
Not to derail the thread, but basically the exact opposite is true. He utterly failed to put a winner next to Cousins and wasted 2 years we could have already been rebuilding.
We had MASSIVE culture and front office drama when he was first hired. Had no coach. And did not have the feel for even how to start addressing it, and what the personnel issues were.

We have been rebuilding. The right way. Building a culture first. Look at the pieces now. Massive change, and massive improvement in personel, massive capspace, and a great crop of younger players.

You can't act too quick. You have to figure out which direction of many you 1) want to go in and 2) can go in

George Karl was our coach bro. GEORGE KARL. Joerger was on exactly nobody's radar, yet he is the perfect coach for us. Vivek hadn't been sufficiently put in his place. There was also in-fighting in the FO, which we never really knew the full extent of. We had 5 years of failed drafting so no young players, except Cousins. You don't "put a winner" next to that.

We weren't winning anything with that.

As an organization we are light years ahead of where we were.
 
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#89
You really think he gave 100% every night? One of the main reasons I am happy we are most likely finally parting ways with Rudy is because of the effort he gave. Sure when it came to offense he pulled out all of the stops, but he rarely ever tried on the defensive end and he was a horrible motivator for the team. He reminded me of Jay Cutler in that he never really cared if the team was winning or losing. That's what I like so much about Garrett Temple. He really seems to care about the outcome of the game and having the back of all of his team mates. I never really got that impression from Rudy Gay.
huh? I disagree with you. Cutler isn't a natural leader, and to some people, it comes off as being a douche. Rudy is definitely a more quiet and reserved player like Kawhi or Tyreke. I don't hold his lack of vocalness against him at all. I think he was above average on D.
 
#90
Not to derail the thread, but basically the exact opposite is true. He utterly failed to put a winner next to Cousins and wasted 2 years we could have already been rebuilding.
I do not like flip he did with the direction (build around Cuz first, then full rebuild), but do not agree with the waste comment above

Last offseason he drafted three guys that are valuable parts of the rebuild, got rights for another one. How can that be "wasted" time?
Year ago there was no coach that would be able to be part of the rebuild, now there is.

Even the trade that looks very foolish now (Philly), was giving away draft pick that will be lost in two years (i.e. does not set us back at all yet).

What was he supposed to do to speed this rebuild up by two years?