Rudy Gay is a new father...again. :) (Updated title)

Bricklayer said:
Actually I doubt that applies to NBA players as independent contractors, but sure, its obviously a societal norm. I haven't been arguing it isn't.
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I am not too familiar with the provisions in their contracts regarding this, I know Murphy on the Mets went through this at the beginning of the season and U.S Department of Labor had a blog regarding it...can't remember the specifics. Either way, it may be a societal norm but it is also a right afforded to folks by law
 
exactly - we can go all in now to get this much needed first W of the season. drop 30 Rudy and dedicate it to your new born
 
Bricklayer said:
It just goes to the same point that a woman alone in a jungle can still give birth to a perfectly healthy baby who can still grow up to be perfectly fine and well adjusted would make.

The point would be its a luxury. A choice. One that's even largely socially driven. In different societies in different parts of the world in different eras the ethos changes. Hence a modern Western father wanting to be there = makes perfect sense. But its a want. If he is or isn't the event is still going to take place very much the same.
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Sure, if we're taking it down to basic needs then a mother giving birth doesn't need the father there. But at that level of what constitutes a necessity a job itself is not a necessity. Humans had been living off the land without jobs and salaries for nearly 200,000 years before we developed the concept of a job. And another couple thousand years before basketball was invented. There are way too many people in this world who ARE struggling to live in the face of war, disease, starvation etc. But for most of us arguably 96% or more of our lives are luxuries and choice.

Bricklayer said:
Perhaps.

I do find it an interesting social standard however.

Its really this one event. If Rudy's wife was diagnosed with cancer and had to go into chemo there would be no announcement that Rudy was going to be gone for a few months to be there for her. And she would really need the support too. Nonetheless, he'd hire a nurse, do the best he could to be there for her in his off hours. His performance would understandably suffer and we'd accept that, but nobody would expect him to just drop out.

On the other hand missing a game to attend a love'd one's funeral is expected and normal, and of course you can't do anything at all for them, but be there to support those still living.
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A funeral is a more apt comparison than cancer and chemotherapy. The former is a one time event (like any individual childbirth) rather than an ongoing struggle.

Bricklayer said:
Well here is where it becomes relevant:

Your employer is paying you approximately $250,000 to be somewhere tomorrow for about 3 hours. If you NEED to be somewhere else at that time, then you need to be and that must be respected. But now if this is a choice, if its about you and you take the man's quarter of a million while declining to even give him your three hours...there are competing responsibilities involved here. Being a standup guy demands you sacrifice your wants when somebody pays you good money to do so and do your best to earn it. It means you work hard, miss your kid's soccer games, maybe have to cancel the romantic relationship strengthening anniversary dinner you had planned for your wife, etc. But you agreed to do a job for a lot of money, and so you sacrifice those things as part of the responsibility. You don't say sorry, have to miss the game tonight because I think Jr. might take his first step, or little Sarah has her big dance recital.
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I think it's strange that you think missing a game for a funeral is acceptable but missing one for the birth of your child isn't. I don't begrudge a player missing a game or two for either. I was by my wife's side not just because I wanted to be their to see our children being born and not just to give her support but because I knew that there was the very real possibility that I'd have to make any number of medical decisions on her behalf should the need arise. Thankfully for us it never did, but my wife needed me in that hospital room as much or more than anyone has ever needed my presence at a funeral.

And childbirth is on a completely different level than anniversary dinners, soccer games, first steps, dance recitals or anything else along those lines. NBA players are often asked to play road games on Christmas day too. That's part of the job. And part of any job that requires travel really. I've missed life events traveling for work and that's tough, but it's not the same as missing your child entering the world.
 
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As for being by your wife's side in labor, I say do it. My sister went through labor last year and it lasted 30+ hours with a few complications. My sister in law went through labor about two years ago and there were serious complications, by brother almost lost both his wife and 2nd child.

And a husband should be by his wife's side given that while it can go smoothly, it can also be life threatening, even here with American healthcare. I also doubt most can perform their duties anywhere near their full capacity if their wife is off in labor elsewhere.

But once delivered without complications, get your ass on the court.
 
Rudy's employer would have allowed him to miss the game without penalty or punishment. Given the choice, I'd see the birth of my child, which is a once in a lifetime event, over missing 1 game. A game that you play 82 times a year multiplied by the number of years in a career. Not to mention the games he's played over his lifetime.
 
Has anybody even thought of the psychological and emotional impact on Gay if he misses this once in a lifetime event?

Even if the baby won't remember, his wife certainly will. Also that emotional bond that is formed at that moment in time when wife needs you most is more than any bball game.

Saying baby won't remember is naive since it does not look at the other side of the coin. i.e. Mother (wife) , and Gay himself.

So, yes, there is no comparison. Gay should choose to be with mother (wife) and baby, each and everytime this situation pops up.

Team should not even make him choose. They should tell him to go.
 
So if it's confirmed that the baby is born without complications that's a heck of a job by Jr for taking one for the team.
 
First I want to congratulate Bricky on being consistent. Well done there! Secondly, if you remove the emotion from the event, and just look at it logically, then Bricky is right. However, I think most would agree, Bricky excepted, that the birth of a child is an emotional experience, and that emotion will naturally out weight any logic of where your presence is needed. So on one hand, I wish that Gay is able to attend and play in the game on wednesday, but at the same time, I understand why he may not make it, and don't blame him one bit.

This whole incident reminds me of when Joe Montana's wife was giving birth during the season, and Glenn Dickey, then of the San Francisco Chronicle, wrote an article criticizing Montana for not planning better. It almost got Dickey, a mainstay at the paper fired because of the outcry by Montana fans. Don't worry Bricky, I'm not calling for your ouster from the forum. I need someone to keep me honest. Wow, that's almost an oxymoron. :rolleyes:
 
bajaden said:
First I want to congratulate Bricky on being consistent. Well done there! Secondly, if you remove the emotion from the event, and just look at it logically, then Bricky is right. However, I think most would agree, Bricky excepted, that the birth of a child is an emotional experience, and that emotion will naturally out weight any logic of where your presence is needed. So on one hand, I wish that Gay is able to attend and play in the game on wednesday, but at the same time, I understand why he may not make it, and don't blame him one bit.

This whole incident reminds me of when Joe Montana's wife was giving birth during the season, and Glenn Dickey, then of the San Francisco Chronicle, wrote an article criticizing Montana for not planning better. It almost got Dickey, a mainstay at the paper fired because of the outcry by Montana fans. Don't worry Bricky, I'm not calling for your ouster from the forum. I need someone to keep me honest. Wow, that's almost an oxymoron. :rolleyes:
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But it's not just dictated by emotion. Your significant other is going through a major medical occurrence and your child is involved. Anything can happen, so you need to be there in case it does and God forbid decisions need to be made. My wife went through 50 hrs of labor up until an emergency c section because the baby was not breathing and was not breathing when born. Both of their lives were hanging in the balance and I was the only one in there with her to talk with the doctors .
 
Hoovtrain said:
But it's not just dictated by emotion. Your significant other is going through a major medical occurrence and your child is involved. Anything can happen, so you need to be there in case it does and God forbid decisions need to be made. My wife went through 50 hrs of labor up until an emergency c section because the baby was not breathing and was not breathing when born. Both of their lives were hanging in the balance and I was the only one in there with her to talk with the doctors .
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Look, I have a son and a daughter, so I know the process. But lets be honest, your wife needs you there for emotional support, not physical support. The baby will be born successfully whether your there or not There are times in life where your presence is needed elsewhere, and you have to decide which is more important to you. In the case of the birth of your child, emotion will usually win out over the logic, that your physical presence will in no way aid in the birth of the baby. Of course it may save you from your wife killing you later because you decided otherwise.
 
Bricklayer said:
Well here is where it becomes relevant:

Your employer is paying you approximately $250,000 to be somewhere tomorrow for about 3 hours. If you NEED to be somewhere else at that time, then you need to be and that must be respected. But now if this is a choice, if its about you and you take the man's quarter of a million while declining to even give him your three hours...there are competing responsibilities involved here. Being a standup guy demands you sacrifice your wants when somebody pays you good money to do so and do your best to earn it. It means you work hard, miss your kid's soccer games, maybe have to cancel the romantic relationship strengthening anniversary dinner you had planned for your wife, etc. But you agreed to do a job for a lot of money, and so you sacrifice those things as part of the responsibility. You don't say sorry, have to miss the game tonight because I think Jr. might take his first step, or little Sarah has her big dance recital.
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My god. Your myopic money vision is so at odds with my personal values. The whole point of life... is life, not money. Get some perspective man. Set the logic aside for a second.
 
My daughter was born at 2 am after 9 hours of labor. I took finals at 8 am that morning. It is possible to do your job and help your wife, I just dont recommend it.

My father in law was out of town on business when my wife was born. He arrived home and couldn't figure out where his family had gone. Eventually, he worked out what had happened and picked up his wife and children. When they arrived home, he asked his wife what was for dinner that night. Despite the rough start, my wife seems to have turned out okay.
 
whoa. just got back to post at kf.com after a long offseason, and i've wandered into a strangely pedantic discussion of the merits of a father being present at his child's birth. i might as well join in, just for the giggles. see, here's the thing: the "miracle of life" is tremendously romanticized in american culture. if rudy had wanted to miss a game to be present for the birth of his child, then all power to him. but let's not pretend that it's some sort of "miracle" when a child is born, or that a father witnessing such an event represents anything other than a conscious choice...

baby-making requires very little skill. just about anybody can do it. in 1970, there were approximately 4 billion people on this planet. today, the human population stands somewhere upwards of 7 billion, with many projections claiming we'll reach the 10 billion mark around the time i reach the age of 50. it's less a "miracle" that human life flourishes so persistently and more like a hostile takeover of planet earth...

advances in modern medicine that keep us alive long past what would ordinarily be a much quicker average expiration date could be considered rather miraculous, i suppose, as could the advances that allow children to be born who otherwise wouldn't survive. however, i find that the act of giving birth to a child is far too often rendered in lofty and romantic language, when it's actually a very messy, unpleasant affair, no matter how we want to characterize it in the context of our morality or our values...

anyway... it's good to be back! ;)
 
Births of my kids are miracles of life for me and my family.

I have very hard time of understanding any father who will look at his kids birth through statistics or necessity, or even worse, criticize other fathers for not using logic in this private highly emotional moment.
 
Bill Herenda
@billherenda
15 mins ago

Rudy Gay 90% yes on playing tonight vs #Clippers according to sources (New baby yesterday) #LACvs#Sac #NBA #Kings #SacKings #KingsTalk


Woot!! guess I will be wearing my RudyGay Black Jersey tonight at the Game !!

Gooooo Kings!!!
 
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