Rockets fan here, not here to troll, but here to let y'all know what y'all got...
- Thread starter 22straight
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22straight
Prospect
Hey King fans, OP here, I just wanted to apologize again for gloating in the original first post. It was insensitive, unnecessary and just wrong. I completely forgot about the situation with Seattle when I made it, and now I feel terrible for it. The original intent was to swap analysis, and I have redone the original post with just that, minus any gloating. The Kings have a lot of great fans and I'll be rooting for them to stay, Sacramento is not only a great city, but a great city for basketball.
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LWP777
Guest
Why is everybody so damn sensitive? I mean, seriously, the entire world has become pussified. Who cares if this guy comes to "our" board and talks about the trade? Does that really hurt your feelings that bad? Trust me, there are far more important things in your life (hopefully) than a Rockets fan coming here and talking about the trade.
Sure he's gloating a bit but it's more than he's just excited about the deal. It's no different than how we would be if we felt like GP pulled off a great deal (which, of course, has been years). I welcome other points of views here. It's a nice change from listening to the 4-5 main posters around here who everybody thinks is a God.
Sure he's gloating a bit but it's more than he's just excited about the deal. It's no different than how we would be if we felt like GP pulled off a great deal (which, of course, has been years). I welcome other points of views here. It's a nice change from listening to the 4-5 main posters around here who everybody thinks is a God.
You have my respect for going back and editing your post. It's rare for most of the basketball world and national media to agree that a trade was lopsided, and in this case many (yourself included) feel that this was a very, very lopsided trade, and reports that the FO was not happy doing this trade only added fuel to the fire that the Maloofs started 7 years ago. Your original post seemed like you were just here to rub the bad trade in our faces.
Right now the only positive I can hope for is that Patterson and Douglas can bring some much needed coaching to the team. Regardless of their actual abilities on the court, they've at least played for decent coaches in the NBA, and maybe their coaching will rub off on our guys, who have only had bad coach after bad coach teach them nothing. Evans has been in the league for 3.5 years and in that time he still hasn't seen any semblance of a reliable offense (or defense for that matter) established. Up to now, I cannot tell you what style of basketball the Kings play, other than maybe run and chuck, losing basketball.
Then why not just go to a Rockets forum? Seriously, I'm getting tired of people like you who only b*tch about things around here day in and day out, who choose not to engage in proper basketball discussion but instead start criticizing the board just because your opinion isn't ever the popular one.
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LWP777
Guest
What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with my opinion. I know that my opinion is not the popular one and I can care less. Great leaders and visionaries are rarely agreed with. This is about everybody whining and crying like little girls because a Rockets fan came to the board to talk about the trade. I mean, seriously, grow a pair. Who the F cares?
Oh, and "proper basketball discussion"......hilarious!
So what exactly are you here for? According to you there's no basketball discussion that goes on around here, and everyone's just a little whiner, and the whole board just has groupthink. What are you, the savior and bringer of sanity?
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LWP777
Guest
Wow, you have completely missed the point. Did you get enough sleep last night? MY POINT is that what this Rockets fan has done is nothing more than good basketball discussion. I welcome that. I found it interesting to hear his point of view since I really don't have much knowledge of the Rockets situation and he did a pretty good job of telling us what the deal is over there. But nobody here can handle that. He gets called a troll and everybody's feelings get hurt because he is "rubbing it in our face" and we are already beaten down because of the potential for moving to Seattle.
Do you get it now?
jalfa
Starter
define "everybody". I count all of 4 people attacking OP, one of them being you.
beb0p
Starter
The thing is that if you call Patterson/Aldrich/Douglas scrap metal then TRob is just another scrap metal too. Let go for a minute the fact that he was a #5 pick and just look at him as a player. He's no more talented than Patterson, he's different from Patterson and he brings different skill to the table but he ultimately is on about the same level as TRob. Basically this trade swap a #11 and #14 plus a filler for a #5 pus two fillers. It's not as loopsided as many people think, especially when the #5 in question has been vastly disappointing and playing like a late first/2nd round pick.
But TRob doesn't shown the ability to finish at the rim, get putbacks, or defend and probably will continue to have problems finishing at the rim and defend bigger guys.
Section 101
All-Star
Those for the most part can be corrected. His biggest problem is the brick hands not something that is easily correctable.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Just like JJ Hickson...
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Kingsguy881
Guest
As far as the OP, yeah, trollish behavior but we have bigger fish to fry.
22straight,
I think a lot of the criticism that has been made of TRob by King's fans is pretty unwarranted and has more to do with the perpetual cloud of doom lingering over this franchise (that will continue to linger until we find out what the BOG decide regarding the sale of the team) than his actual ability. No he hasn't set the league on fire yet. He's not Damian Lillard. A lot of fans wanted us to draft a SF or a post defender so the attitude with Robinson has been "prove that you're worth taking 5th". But... I'll make an attempt to be reasonably objective regarding his capabilities. He's the type of player that fans (typically) fall in love with. When he's motivated he'll hustle his butt off and fly up and down the court. He can be a very tenacious rebounder. He's very athletic for a guy his size, not Blake Griffin level but probably just one step below. With Lin and Harden in the backcourt, he's going to be an asset right away because of his athleticism. Those guys are both creative passers and Robinson can finish above the rim.
He also has some developing outside skills -- he can handle the ball a little bit in the open court though he's turnover prone if he's facing pressure. He can shoot the outside jumper out to the top of the key. The percentages don't back that up yet, but you can see that he has good form and more importantly he's consistent enough with his release that they should start dropping for him more frequently if he keeps at it. Some people see him eventually being better suited for the SF position if he continues to work on those areas because he moves will enough to play that position (certainly defensively) and he has trouble scoring in post isolation situations.
Which leads me to the area he needs to improve the most. He simply cannot finish in the paint over NBA defense. Far too often this season we've seen him catch the ball in the post, pivot to the basket and get his shot swatted. He doesn't have the footwork that an advanced post scorer like Cousins has where he can make a counter move and find a seam. It's also surprising for such a capable athlete that he doesn't really get much elevation on his post moves. It's not really that he's undersized for the position, it's just that he plays right into the defense and seems to be in a hurry to get any shot up there instead of playing to his strengths, using a fake, and dunking the ball. Some of that is instinctual and some of it can be taught. Kevin McHale ought to be a good mentor for him in this area. There's no reason for a guy with his strength, long arms, and jumping ability to get blocked nearly that much. I think he'll grow out of it, but that's a judgement call based on his good work ethic and it's hard to know which guys will get better in the league and which will not.
The other issue with Robinson, which I hinted at before, is that when he's not motivated he's doing nothing to help the team. He'll walk up and down the court, play passive on the defensive end, and throw up long jumpers. None of this is pleasant to watch. I think this is the biggest reason he's being talked about as a bust. But if you look up and down our roster you can find examples of every one of them under-performing this season. And Robinson has had moments where he looks like the guy we thought we were getting when we drafted him. The coaching/management on this team has seriously gotten so bad that it's hard for me to find fault with the players anymore for not being ready to play. For instance, under Paul Westphal Tyreke Evans was one of the most exciting young players in the league. Under Keith's Smart's "leadership" he looks like a poor man's Andre Igoudala.
I'm happy for Robinson that he's getting out of this dysfunctional situation and onto a team that's made a lot of positive progress this season. I think he could have been a solid building block for us, but the important thing for this franchise right now is to clear out the stink of the Maloofs and start over. Everything else is secondary. We got robbed in this trade, but I'm sure the blame lies entirely on our horrible front office. I'll say this for Morey though, turning all of the miscellaneous parts he'd stockpiled into Lin, Harden and Asik looks like a stroke of genius right now. That he's managed to build all of that without sacrificing many assets (you still have T. Jones, Motiejunas -- who I like a lot as a stretch 4/5, Parsons, and now TRob) makes him the front runner for executive of the year in my opinion. If you can manage to maintain that playoff spot and keep the Lakers on the outside looking in, we'll call it even.
I think a lot of the criticism that has been made of TRob by King's fans is pretty unwarranted and has more to do with the perpetual cloud of doom lingering over this franchise (that will continue to linger until we find out what the BOG decide regarding the sale of the team) than his actual ability. No he hasn't set the league on fire yet. He's not Damian Lillard. A lot of fans wanted us to draft a SF or a post defender so the attitude with Robinson has been "prove that you're worth taking 5th". But... I'll make an attempt to be reasonably objective regarding his capabilities. He's the type of player that fans (typically) fall in love with. When he's motivated he'll hustle his butt off and fly up and down the court. He can be a very tenacious rebounder. He's very athletic for a guy his size, not Blake Griffin level but probably just one step below. With Lin and Harden in the backcourt, he's going to be an asset right away because of his athleticism. Those guys are both creative passers and Robinson can finish above the rim.
He also has some developing outside skills -- he can handle the ball a little bit in the open court though he's turnover prone if he's facing pressure. He can shoot the outside jumper out to the top of the key. The percentages don't back that up yet, but you can see that he has good form and more importantly he's consistent enough with his release that they should start dropping for him more frequently if he keeps at it. Some people see him eventually being better suited for the SF position if he continues to work on those areas because he moves will enough to play that position (certainly defensively) and he has trouble scoring in post isolation situations.
Which leads me to the area he needs to improve the most. He simply cannot finish in the paint over NBA defense. Far too often this season we've seen him catch the ball in the post, pivot to the basket and get his shot swatted. He doesn't have the footwork that an advanced post scorer like Cousins has where he can make a counter move and find a seam. It's also surprising for such a capable athlete that he doesn't really get much elevation on his post moves. It's not really that he's undersized for the position, it's just that he plays right into the defense and seems to be in a hurry to get any shot up there instead of playing to his strengths, using a fake, and dunking the ball. Some of that is instinctual and some of it can be taught. Kevin McHale ought to be a good mentor for him in this area. There's no reason for a guy with his strength, long arms, and jumping ability to get blocked nearly that much. I think he'll grow out of it, but that's a judgement call based on his good work ethic and it's hard to know which guys will get better in the league and which will not.
The other issue with Robinson, which I hinted at before, is that when he's not motivated he's doing nothing to help the team. He'll walk up and down the court, play passive on the defensive end, and throw up long jumpers. None of this is pleasant to watch. I think this is the biggest reason he's being talked about as a bust. But if you look up and down our roster you can find examples of every one of them under-performing this season. And Robinson has had moments where he looks like the guy we thought we were getting when we drafted him. The coaching/management on this team has seriously gotten so bad that it's hard for me to find fault with the players anymore for not being ready to play. For instance, under Paul Westphal Tyreke Evans was one of the most exciting young players in the league. Under Keith's Smart's "leadership" he looks like a poor man's Andre Igoudala.
I'm happy for Robinson that he's getting out of this dysfunctional situation and onto a team that's made a lot of positive progress this season. I think he could have been a solid building block for us, but the important thing for this franchise right now is to clear out the stink of the Maloofs and start over. Everything else is secondary. We got robbed in this trade, but I'm sure the blame lies entirely on our horrible front office. I'll say this for Morey though, turning all of the miscellaneous parts he'd stockpiled into Lin, Harden and Asik looks like a stroke of genius right now. That he's managed to build all of that without sacrificing many assets (you still have T. Jones, Motiejunas -- who I like a lot as a stretch 4/5, Parsons, and now TRob) makes him the front runner for executive of the year in my opinion. If you can manage to maintain that playoff spot and keep the Lakers on the outside looking in, we'll call it even.
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22straight
Prospect
hrdboild, great post. Do you think he can eventually be a Josh Smith type player? That's what he sounds like based off your analysis.
I really hope Cousins turns it around attitude wise, he has the talent to be a franchise player, Patterson might help Cousins grow since they used to be teammates, he doesn't need to dominate the ball and is definitely a better fit for Cousins than Thompson since PP is a stretch 4. I think Tyreke should come off the bench and can be a great Sixth Man. He's a Jamal Crawford type player. I don't think Tyreke and Isiah Thomas should be on the same team though, but at least Isiah Thomas can be a nice trade piecing.
I think once you get a pass first point guard, the rest of the pieces will fall in place. The lack of floor generals on the team surely isn't helping Cousins' game.
I really hope Cousins turns it around attitude wise, he has the talent to be a franchise player, Patterson might help Cousins grow since they used to be teammates, he doesn't need to dominate the ball and is definitely a better fit for Cousins than Thompson since PP is a stretch 4. I think Tyreke should come off the bench and can be a great Sixth Man. He's a Jamal Crawford type player. I don't think Tyreke and Isiah Thomas should be on the same team though, but at least Isiah Thomas can be a nice trade piecing.
I think once you get a pass first point guard, the rest of the pieces will fall in place. The lack of floor generals on the team surely isn't helping Cousins' game.
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Glenn
Hall of Famer
I think Cousins has shown more control over himself than anyone thought possible. Now he needs a coach. The whole team needs a coach. Tyreke seems to be losing interest and I could speculate what that is about. I have long thought that Isaiah and Tyreke (and Brooks) can't be on the same team. But mainly the trouble is at the top. If we stay in Sacramento and if we get the owners that most of us think will get the nod, we should be OK eventually. We didn't need this dumb arse trade but it may further cement the idea that any problem with the Kings comes from its owners and not the players or the fans.
Where the team plays next year is our main worry at present. We have no MLB, NFL, hockey or soccer nor even a decent college program in any sport so the Kings are all us sports nuts have.
Where the team plays next year is our main worry at present. We have no MLB, NFL, hockey or soccer nor even a decent college program in any sport so the Kings are all us sports nuts have.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
JT doesn't dominate the ball. Not sure where you got that from.
Mojo
G-League
That's how I read it as well.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No.
And if your primary purpose in coming here was to hear great and encouraging things about TRob as a future All Star, you probably would have been better off heading to a Kansas board. TRob is a very good athlete who will give you some highlight reel plays. He should be able to excel with the easy finishes in the running game etc. in Houston. When he really concentrates on it, and it does appear to be a conscious deciison by him, he has had some extended runs of hustle/havoc play that are enocuraging in a poor man's Faried sort of way. The offense has a long way to go. he's got oen real nice looking quick spin into the lane he does, but the finish is erratic. The jumper is either a spalsh or killing grandma in the second row with the airball. He's highly turnover prone for his touches, his hands are bad, which actually hurts him on the glass too, and he has problems finsihiing over size. He's also undersized so gets bounced around in there against big PFs/Cs, and he has annoying habit of playign defense with his arms straight down at his sides and only rarely, and again almost like a conscious decision fighting his instincts, getting off the floor to use his athleticism as a shotblocker. On the other hand he is very small/light/quick for a PF and can show high and bother guards and quickly recover inside.
So that's what you have. Not Josh Smith. There's some promising things, but also a lot to work on.
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Dime Dropper
All-Star
Nor is Tyreke's game even a tiny bit similar to Jamal Crawford's. And he certainly should not, and will not be, a 6th man. No offense OP, but it's pretty obvious the amount of times you've seen Tyreke play is limited. If we'd had a decent coach at any point since he was drafted, he'd be way ahead of where he is now.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
beb0p
Starter
His problems arise mostly from him being undersized (defense and inability to finish at the rim) and lack of touch around the hoop; I don't think those can be corrected. His brick hands certainly don't help.
But he should be able to carve out a nice niche for himself as a Udonis Haslem type of player in a few years. Just not sure why the gaga over getting the next Haslem/Chris Wilcox.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Bingo!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't see him being another Josh Smith. He's not as physical as Smith. I see him as more of a Carl Landry, or Paul Millsap type, if he continues to play at the 4. Personally, I'm one of those that believes he's better suited physically at playing the 3. However, he has some holes in his game he needs to correct for him to play the 3. He's a terrific athlete, with great end to end court speed. Unfortunately he has a tendecy to go at too high a speed, and become out of control around the basket. Which is why he misses so many point blank shots at the basket. He simply has no patience around the basket.
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LWP777
Guest
Hey, thanks for the nice mention!
You're welcome. For the record, I do consider you God-like around here. You've earned that with me!
upinsmoke
All-Star
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LWP777
Guest
I like Baja and I try to respect all senior citizens.
No, I wouldn't really say Josh Smith. Firstly, he's a pretty unique player (Smith that is) and it's hard to find many examples of players that can do what he does. Smith is a better outside shooter and also a natural shot blocker. Plus Robinson has a good vertical leap, but Smith has dunk contest hops. But if you remember, Smith was labeled as a tweener for years. It's only in the last 2 or 3 years that he's really grown into the PF role and developed his back to the basket game. It's kindof up to your coaches which way Robinson is going to go, but he's got more work to do in terms of becoming a solid NBA wing player than he does to become a solid post player if that makes any sense.
I think Robinson is closer to an Al Horford or David Lee type of player. Both are good at what they do because of their athleticism and their tenacity. That's basically best-case scenario for Robinson. Lee in particular has made himself into a more well-rounded offensive player as his career has progressed, but he was more of a catch and finish guy coming into the league. I'd say you should expect about 10 and 10 with a block and a steal as he develops, probably shading a little more toward higher rebound totals and lower point totals. He could average more as a scorer if he refines his shot and gets better about knowing where to be offensively. That's a solid starter on most teams. I know I'm more optimistic about his future than most are here, but what I see is a raw athlete that needs a lot of coaching and he wasn't getting that with our franchise.
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