revisit the cousins trade once more

[Nokidding]

Best thing about is the per 36 numbers and HOF talk stopped all the while the team was getting trashed every single season.

 

[Kingster]

Does anyone really think that if the Kings did the max on a Cousins' contract the current team would be as good as they are now? With the talent and the promise that they see now? Vlade HAD to trade the guy. The great comradery we see now with this new team would never have occurred with Cousins. We'd still be in the old toxic soup.

 

[swisshh]

They sucked. They didn't tank. Philly tanked. There is a difference clear as day.

And yes, I pointed out more than once that a team can rebuild without resorting to Philly's tactics and pointed the Warriors out as an example, and took an incredible amount of flack for it.

But do go on.

Your point was that Fox was part of the Cousins deal. He was not. What produced Fox is drafting the right guy at the right spot, something they rarely do. Claiming that Fox was part of the Cousins deal, to me, is buying into the usual horsecrap the Kings PR puts out. He was not a part of the deal. They tank every year. Yes, they suck, but they also tank. They routinely sat Cousins at the end of the year and would give up on seasons. That's tanking.

I am too old to suffer revisionist thinking and pr spin. They tanked last year and got Bagley. Passing on Doncic could be a huge mistake. Luka would certainly fill in the team's biggest need and make the Kings more legit this year. The hope is Bagley is better in the long run, but we don't know that.

However, I would not argue that Bagley was part of the George Hill trade. Would you?

See, you can argue that Jimmer Fredette is part of the John Salmons trade, because he's directly part of the trade. You can't argue that when the draft pick is not part of the trade.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Your point was that Fox was part of the Cousins deal. He was not. What produced Fox is drafting the right guy at the right spot, something they rarely do. Claiming that Fox was part of the Cousins deal, to me, is buying into the usual horsecrap the Kings PR puts out. He was not a part of the deal. They tank every year. Yes, they suck, but they also tank. They routinely sat Cousins at the end of the year and would give up on seasons. That's tanking.

I am too old to suffer revisionist thinking and pr spin. They tanked last year and got Bagley. Passing on Doncic could be a huge mistake. Luka would certainly fill in the team's biggest need and make the Kings more legit this year. The hope is Bagley is better in the long run, but we don't know that.

However, I would not argue that Bagley was part of the George Hill trade. Would you?

See, you can argue that Jimmer Fredette is part of the John Salmons trade, because he's directly part of the trade. You can't argue that when the draft pick is not part of the trade.

My point was that with Cousins the stated goal with the team was to chase the playoffs. When we traded him we finally went all in on a full rebuild from near zero. The pick that wound up being Fox was ~5 wins away from going to Chicago as part of the wretched Casspi/Hickson deal years prior. That is why I consider that part of the trade. At the time, we were out of the playoffs but most fans were screaming bloody murder because we were closer than we had been in years. I think a large part of the trade timing actually had to do with the fact that we were not going to make the playoffs but we were very much in danger of finishing somewhere between 11-14 and losing that pick to Chicago. That has always been our achilles, being a very bad team but not terrible enough to get top talent.

And I'm sorry but the logic on Hill makes no sense, the guy was a detriment to the team on the court and in the locker room. Trading him did not aid the tank that wasn't even a tank.

 

[Gary]

I love Cousins, don't get me wrong. I wanted him here, we got lucky and drafted him, but there was something off about him. It seemed that whoever we paired with him, Evans, IT, Rondo that nothing was making our team any better. It was time to part ways. Maybe in the future once Cousins grows up he can come back and play within the confines of ball movement. He is a good passer, but I don't think he wasn't really helping our team, and he might have been causing other players to say "eff it". So I love the guy but glad he's gone, at least for now.

 

[Gary]

Does anyone really think that if the Kings did the max on a Cousins' contract the current team would be as good as they are now? With the talent and the promise that they see now? Vlade HAD to trade the guy. The great comradery we see now with this new team would never have occurred with Cousins. We'd still be in the old toxic soup.

No, I don't think we would. I think Cousins was kind of a cancer in the locker room and bringing everyone down. If you match Cousins against WCS, 1 on 1 Cousins wins on pure skill, but WCS wins on everything else. I have heard nor seen anything negative from teammates of WCS. If Cousins was here instead of WCS I seriously don't think we would be 6-3.

 

[King Baller]

Your point was that Fox was part of the Cousins deal. He was not. What produced Fox is drafting the right guy at the right spot, something they rarely do. Claiming that Fox was part of the Cousins deal, to me, is buying into the usual horsecrap the Kings PR puts out. He was not a part of the deal. They tank every year. Yes, they suck, but they also tank. They routinely sat Cousins at the end of the year and would give up on seasons. That's tanking.

I am too old to suffer revisionist thinking and pr spin. They tanked last year and got Bagley. Passing on Doncic could be a huge mistake. Luka would certainly fill in the team's biggest need and make the Kings more legit this year. The hope is Bagley is better in the long run, but we don't know that.

However, I would not argue that Bagley was part of the George Hill trade. Would you?

See, you can argue that Jimmer Fredette is part of the John Salmons trade, because he's directly part of the trade. You can't argue that when the draft pick is not part of the trade.

The chance to draft Fox was direct result of trading Big Cuz. I loved watching the Big Fella play but his Agent tried to torpedo the Kings with his antics pre-trade. Obviously just POed the big payday was slipping away. Win a few more games that season and that pick is in Chi-town brother.

True, Doncic looks to be on his way to being a nice player. But so does Bagley and Bags upside due to his physical gifts are on a level above Doncic's IMO.

The Kings have not been known to tank. All your other comparisons don't hold water, sorry.

 

[whozit]

The chance to draft Fox was direct result of trading Big Cuz. I loved watching the Big Fella play but his Agent tried to torpedo the Kings with his antics pre-trade. Obviously just POed the big payday was slipping away. Win a few more games that season and that pick is in Chi-town brother.

True, Doncic looks to be on his way to being a nice player. But so does Bagley and Bags upside due to his physical gifts are on a level above Doncic's IMO.

The Kings have not been known to tank. All your other comparisons don't hold water, sorry.

Sorry, half a lie is still a whole lie. (Not referring to you) The Kings might not have tanked blatantly or to the degree of others but they did tank.

 

[King Baller]

Sorry, half a lie is still a whole lie. (Not referring to you) The Kings might not have tanked blatantly or to the degree of others but they did tank.

I think we may have to agree to disagree on what we see as tanking. Most of the pro-tankers on this board were up in arms about the lack of a tank.

 

[AleksandarN]

Your point was that Fox was part of the Cousins deal. He was not. What produced Fox is drafting the right guy at the right spot, something they rarely do. Claiming that Fox was part of the Cousins deal, to me, is buying into the usual horsecrap the Kings PR puts out. He was not a part of the deal. They tank every year. Yes, they suck, but they also tank. They routinely sat Cousins at the end of the year and would give up on seasons. That's tanking.

I am too old to suffer revisionist thinking and pr spin. They tanked last year and got Bagley. Passing on Doncic could be a huge mistake. Luka would certainly fill in the team's biggest need and make the Kings more legit this year. The hope is Bagley is better in the long run, but we don't know that.

However, I would not argue that Bagley was part of the George Hill trade. Would you?

See, you can argue that Jimmer Fredette is part of the John Salmons trade, because he's directly part of the trade. You can't argue that when the draft pick is not part of the trade.

Look the decision to trade Cousins when they did(trade deadline) was to retain our draft pick in a strong draft year. To not include the team’s thought process and intent, when evaluating the trade is being disingenuous at best.

 

[Livinthedream]

I am too old to suffer revisionist thinking and pr spin. They tanked last year and got Bagley. Passing on Doncic could be a huge mistake. Luka would certainly fill in the team's biggest need and make the Kings more legit this year. The hope is Bagley is better in the long run, but we don't know that

Aye. This caught me off-guard because I wasn't thinking about Doncic vs Bagley while following the discussion. But Luka starts and is a focal point of the Dallas offense. Luka plays more minutes. Look at the per 36 for both players to get a true comparison and by all means, there is very little difference statistically between the two. Luka is polished and Bagley is still raw. Kings tanked and once again, like the Fox pick, picked the right guy at the right spot. So, I'm comfortable moving on from the Luka vs Bagley thing. It makes way more sense to make it a Luka vs Fox argument, since that's what the Kings FO had to decide on. Again, I'm good with Fox.

I will agree that the Fox pick was an indirect result of the trade. However, the method the Kings chose to tank was to trade Cousins and begin losing immediately. The argument that the Kings could have tanked a different way is not relevant. What's relevant was what they did do and the intent of the actions. The intent was to blow it all up and start a rebuild through the draft.

 

[Joshoua]

I don’t know where I side on this I love our group but I’ll make a case for that ***** Cousins (he’s not Boogie to me till he leaves that dump in Oakland).

We would’ve had Cousins and Bogdan going into free agency. Sign Milsap and Bojan Bogdanovic in win now moves and resign Collison.

2018 free agency sign some bench fillers

Present day: Trade Bogdanovic-WCS-1st for Jimmy Butler

Collison-Mason
Bogdan
Butler/Temple
Milsap
Cousins/KK

I think that team competes for the championship of course getting more bench players. But we’d have elite scoring, playmaking, and defense with tough nosed players.

 

[kingsboi]

I loved Boogie during his tenure here, he was one of my favorite players in college in 2010 and I wanted him badly when the Kings were up to draft him. The memories will always remain, the good, the bad & the ugly. That said, the team wasn't able to put a winning product around Cousins and Cousins didn't help his cause much either so the time was right to move in another direction and both parties are now better off because of it.

 

[Joshoua]

Also I’m pretty sure we’d be biased considering our start and how we look now

 

[AleksandarN]

I don’t know where I side on this I love our group but I’ll make a case for that ***** Cousins (he’s not Boogie to me till he leaves that dump in Oakland).

We would’ve had Cousins and Bogdan going into free agency. Sign Milsap and Bojan Bogdanovic in win now moves and resign Collison.

2018 free agency sign some bench fillers

Present day: Trade Bogdanovic-WCS-1st for Jimmy Butler

Collison-Mason
Bogdan
Butler/Temple
Milsap
Cousins/KK

I think that team competes for the championship of course getting more bench players. But we’d have elite scoring, playmaking, and defense with tough nosed players.

How the heck do you think we could afford milsap, Collison and Bogdan. Also what makes you think milsap would have signed with us?

 

[John Galt]

But that's the thing. You're speculating. We have no idea how the team may have performed w/ Boogie. You may think you know. But you don't. Neither do I. That was the point. We can believe it indirectly led to it -- but it surely wasn't a direct result. We have no way to truly know.

speculating doesn't mean "having no idea". never mind - you live with your convictions and I'll live with mine. it's good.

 

[ppine]

The guys the Kings have now are sharing the rock, and trying to play team defense.
The fact they care about each other matters a lot, even in professional sports.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

speculating doesn't mean "having no idea". never mind - you live with your convictions and I'll live with mine. it's good.

Convictions are fine. I have no issue with that at all. My only contention is someone stating it as a factual outcome when there's no way to confirm it as such. That's all. I'm no Capt. Factorial, but I share his affinity for trying to keep things as true and correct as possible My apology if that ruffles feathers from time to time. I'm not challenging your belief, just those that state it as fact. No offense intended.

 

[Cojc]

I liked Cousins and enjoyed him being here but also after a few years I just couldn’t believe we were going to be able to push ahead but man he was good.
Could we of made a push at the playoffs if he didn’t miss a good portion of the last few seasons either with injuries or suspensions?
I think we have a coach that folks will listen to and give it us some stability.

I wish him no ill will but he’s gone and so let’s move on.

 

[Gary]

I loved Boogie during his tenure here, he was one of my favorite players in college in 2010 and I wanted him badly when the Kings were up to draft him. The memories will always remain, the good, the bad & the ugly. That said, the team wasn't able to put a winning product around Cousins and Cousins didn't help his cause much either so the time was right to move in another direction and both parties are now better off because of it.

Maybe things will turn around for him in GS. Maybe he will learn that he's just one of five players on the floor and that a positive attitude, and gamesmanship are also needed to win, as well as chemistry!

 

[kingsboi]

Maybe things will turn around for him in GS. Maybe he will learn that he's just one of five players on the floor and that a positive attitude, and gamesmanship are also needed to win, as well as chemistry!

Boogie is what he is, I don't see any team or environment changing that. The guy got a technical for being on the bench and his teammate is Draymond, they'll clearly rub off on each other

 

[Kangztillidie]

They tanked every year. They just had bad lotto luck and bad talent evaluaiton. Where they finished may be similar to what they would get if they had sat Cousins, traded role players for assets and so on. Maybe they moved up a spot or two at the most.

I mean they blew nearly every draft picks they got. If you look a the Warriors, you'll notice that all their homegrown stars were drafted after the Kings drafted. The Kings could be the Dubs if they knew how to draft. Three good picks over 12 years of tanking tells you the issue wasn't how hard you tanked.

Right now it looks like the Kings ARE modeled after the Dubs. Drafted some great talent and developed it, with one trade for a rookie mixed into that batter.

 

[roasthawg]

If the Boston pick this year turns out to be late lotto and nbd that means literally everything worked for vlade. Before this year I saw no way the guy wasn't getting fired but as of right now he's looking like a genius. Not that he couldn't have made better moves but everything he's done has worked out no matter how bad it looked at the time. He's bought himself some time. Hopefully he's learned from his time on the job so far and makes even better moves in the future.

 

[VF21]

Maybe things will turn around for him in GS. Maybe he will learn that he's just one of five players on the floor and that a positive attitude, and gamesmanship are also needed to win, as well as chemistry!

He was doing very well in New Orleans before his injury. In addition, his gamesmanship, chemistry and camaraderie were praised on TeamUSA.

 

[Chupacabra]

I was never blown away by the trade because we weren't any good when the trade went down. Also, like many here said, we were just good enough to not be able to draft the players we needed because we were drafting too high. It needed to be blown up.

 

[New Era]

I'll just never understand why a lot of people think DMC was so great and how they were and still are huge fans of the guy. He literally made everybody around him miserable and always was the "leader" of underachieving teams. I'm just so happy with the group we have now. No drama...just fun to watch and actually winning now.

 

[Liontech]

Sorry, half a lie is still a whole lie. (Not referring to you) The Kings might not have tanked blatantly or to the degree of others but they did tank.

I see it the same way. They made a move (trading Cousins) that they knew was going to result in more losses. They tanked.

 

[Liontech]

Right now it looks like the Kings ARE modeled after the Dubs. Drafted some great talent and developed it, with one trade for a rookie mixed into that batter.

Bingo! And I know I’m getting ahead of myself, but assuming the go-forward core of the Kings is Fox, Bagley, WCS, and Bogdanovic and projecting that it will eventually be a playoff team, this will be the first time the Sacramento Kings will have been successful through a draft and develop strategy. Fingers crossed.

 

[Gary]

Boogie is what he is, I don't see any team or environment changing that. The guy got a technical for being on the bench and his teammate is Draymond, they'll clearly rub off on each other

People said that about Weber! Remember when he came to Sac they called hi a cancer ect ect. Little did everyone know, he grew up!

 

[Sac.1989]

This is pointless. End of the day. Regardless of hindsight. We should have got more back. We lost that trade hands down. Vlade openly admitted to turning more down then accepting less.

We should have had a winner with cousins and end of the day that's on ownership and management.

Funny we will end up paying Willie, close to Cousins money if Vivek can actually pony up some cash for the first time since he bought the franchise.