Reke to come off the bench - or random Reke rantings

Andriod_KiNg said:
If you think a 4 foot point guard can defend some top pgs in the game during a 7 game series than you surely in for a shock.
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The game has changed. You need quickness more than anything to defend as a PG. I guess the Mavs shouldn't have won with JJ Barea or the Lakers with Fisher because they are too small.
 
Section 101 said:
The game has changed. You need quickness more than anything to defend as a PG. I guess the Mavs shouldn't have won with JJ Barea or the Lakers with Fisher because they are too small.
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Fisher is a strong 6'1", and Barea was obviously no higher than the THIRD PG on the team.

Similar to IT -- if he's a backup you are fine. If he's guarding DRose or Westbrook you can play that series 1000 times and you will never win it. Mentioend before the great difficulty is with a 5'9" guy you can't hide him. If DRose is lighting him up your are just stuck. You can't swing Reke or whoever over to Rose because IT is too small to have any chance against a SG or SF. So the bad matchups, of which there will be many as the league stockpiles mega-PGs just load up.

And people like Jerry who claim the game has changed are living in fantasy land. The core features have not changed. Not when the Lakers won back to back titles Nor the Celtics before them, nor the Mavs last year. Experience, defense, big frontlines to control the interior on both ends, and then top roleplayers to kick your defense up a notch. Same formula its been for the entire 30 years or so I've been watching the game. The rest is just window dressing.
 
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That's like saying you can't win an NBA title with Clifford Ray at center. You can. They did. Concern amongst our Kings fan that IT isn't the guard of the future because he would never be able to lead a Kings team to victory in a seven game series is believable theory but not in considering our 'now' or our trip to Division, Conference and League victory. Just doesn't hold water because ....... Hey, let's just win half our games out this season, hope to improve by four slots each year until we do it or I turn pshn90.

I think IT is the least of our problems going forward to a super team. Long trip. He might even grow.
 
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Npliam said:
Not right now he isn't.
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Oh I'm sorry I didnt get the memo that we were supposed to be comparing 2nd and 3rd year players with established veteran all-stars. Seriously ... guess what, right now IT is not as good as Derek Fisher 2 years ago. Oh calamity that must mean IT sucks.
Btw, I don't think Thomas can defend Rose or any top PG either. Not over 7 games, where the best players will make adjustments to capitalize on tje advantage. But if the rest of the team can hold the other players down we do stand a chance, much like just giving Kobe his points but taking the rest of the team out of the game.
 
pshn80 said:
Concern amongst our Kings fan that IT isn't the guard of the future because he would never be able to lead a Kings team to victory in a seven game series is believable theory but not in considering our 'now' or our trip to Division, Conference and League victory. Just doesn't hold water because ....... Hey, let's just win half our games out this season, hope to improve by four slots each year until we do it or I turn pshn90.

I think IT is the least of our problems going forward to a super team. Long trip. He might even grow.
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This. Although you are pshn it in the last sentence :)
 
jthompson1 said:
What makes you think he can't? he has held his own against the top point guards in the NBA.
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Oh something about the fact that he is a tiny pg. I love IT, I am going to buy his jersey but just because we are winning some games doesn't mean we should scrap everything and trade everyone cause we got IT on our team. Size wins in the NBA, we may have figured out how to win regular season games in this stretch. But looking at the FUTURE, means that we are going to be facing vet teams with vet players ran by good PGs, they would just work IT in a 7 games series. He will be playing with the trees, no to mention on the offensive end you will find those layups that start from under the back board being blocked alot more. There is a reason why JJ was killing the Heat last year and continued to come off the bench for the Mavs. Its nothing against you personally but IT is a nice role player and nothing more, the fact that others are trying to use IT as an reason to why we should and can trade Evans is a little comical.
 
I love you guys. I designate this as the place to discuss Evans and it doesn't even take a page before Tyreke is a distant memory and the discussion is about Isaiah. The mind of a Kings fan never ceases to amaze and amuse me.

:)
 
pshn80 said:
Hey, let's just win half our games out this season, hope to improve by four slots each year until we do it or I turn pshn90.
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Yes, let's.

I have a suggestion how to make that happen: study the good teams, both present and past. Understand why they were good. And emulate them. Make roster decisions like they have made. Make coaching decision like they have made. Accumulate players similar ot he ones they have accumulated and play them in roles similar to the ones that those championship players have played. Do all of the above and sooner or later you too will get good. Constantly act like idiots trying to do it your own way because its fun or cute or exciting or a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff is just another way of guaranteeing that you will lose. Teams have won in this league. They have shared certain traits. Understand those traits. Emulate those traits. And understand no 5'9" guy has started on a championship team, or even on a contender as far as I recall, in the modern history of the NBA. Possibly ever but players were smaller in the good ole days and I don't know those teams by heart to be sure. Avery Johnson was the closest player I can remember at 5'11" I think it was, and he was a pure PG who was cut about half a dozen times before the Spurs slipped through with him as a roleplayer feeding the Twin Towers during the 50 game 1999 season.

If IT goes to the bench as a 6th man it takes the pressure of defying history off of him. He never fails. You get him in a role he could handle early on, call that role locked down, and have a constant point of stability rather than a ? And the other thing about little guys that should be noted is that they normally do not last long. Everything is about quickness at that size, and if they lose the least of it, if an injury robs them of any of their explosiveness, they typically fall back. Live fast, burn bright, fall back young. the only guy I can think of in history who has defied that trend would be Calvin Murply, who started his career more than 40 years ago in a different NBA world. IN the modern era the only models are guys liek Stoudamire at 5'10" or Nate Robinson. Damon had 2 or 3 big years for a bad team in Toronto, then quickly slipped back and settled in as a 13 and 7 sort of jsut adequate PG in Portland, and never got over the top. Nate had a ocuple of years of getting to gun for a bad team in New York, then his career too slipped off rapidly.

I ran this search on basketball-reference.com: show me all the seasons since 1980 where a 5'9" or shorter guy has averaged even 10ppg. here were the results:

5'9" or under search

There are no surpises on that list. Basically you have Spud, Mugsy, Boynkins, Robinson, and the last couple of years of Murphy's career back in the early Reagan Adminstration. And one random guy from that same era named Charlie Criss. Basically we know the stories of all those players, and we know they did not win anything.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Yes, let's.

I have a suggestion how to make that happen: study the good teams, both present and past. Understand why they were good. And emulate them. Make roster decisions like they have made. Make coaching decision like they have made. Accumulate players similar ot he ones they have accumulated and play them in roles similar to the ones that those championship players have played. Do all of the above and sooner or later you too will get good. Constantly act like idiots trying to do it your own way because its fun or cute or exciting or a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff is just another way of guaranteeing that you will lose. Teams have won in this league. They have shared certain traits. Understand those traits. Emulate those traits. And understand no 5'9" guy has started on a championship team, or even on a contender as far as I recall, in the modern history of the NBA. Possibly ever but players were smaller in the good ole days and I don't know those teams by heart to be sure. Avery Johnson was the closest player I can remember at 5'11" I think it was, and he was a pure PG who was cut about half a dozen times before the Spurs slipped through with him as a roleplayer feeding the Twin Towers during the 50 game 1999 season.

If IT goes to the bench as a 6th man it takes the pressure of defying history off of him. He never fails. You get him in a role he could handle early on, call that role locked down, and have a constant point of stability rather than a ? And the other thing about little guys that should be noted is that they normally do not last long. Everything is about quickness at that size, and if they lose the least of it, if an injury robs them of any of their explosiveness, they typically fall back. Live fast, burn bright, fall back young. the only guy I can think of in history who has defied that trend would be Calvin Murply, who started his career more than 40 years ago in a different NBA world. IN the modern era the only models are guys liek Stoudamire at 5'10" or Nate Robinson. Damon had 2 or 3 big years for a bad team in Toronto, then quickly slipped back and settled in as a 13 and 7 sort of jsut adequate PG in Portland, and never got over the top. Nate had a ocuple of years of getting to gun for a bad team in New York, then his career too slipped off rapidly.

I ran this search on basketball-reference.com: show me all the seasons since 1980 where a 5'9" or shorter guy has averaged even 10ppg. here were the results:

5'9" or under search

There are no surpises on that list. Basically you have Spud, Mugsy, Boynkins, Robinson, and the last couple of years of Murphy's career back in the early Reagan Adminstration. And one random guy from that same era named Charlie Criss. Basically we know the stories of all those players, and we know they did not win anything.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, logic, traits of winning, what has worked/not worked historically in the league, stats,.......who cares.

It's so much easier to just say go Kings and trust in everything Petrie, lol.
 
rainmaker said:
Hmmm, logic, traits of winning, what has worked/not worked historically in the league, stats,.......who cares.

It's so much easier to just say go Kings and trust in everything Petrie, lol.
Click to expand...

Some fans love to talk statistics, much like my brother used to love to play Strat-o-matic baseball when he was a kid. Other fans just like to live in the moment, enjoying the game and not feeling the need to play arm-chair GM, etc.

There's room for both around here. There is nothing wrong in just saying Go Kings and trusting in Petrie. To be perfectly blunt, those who just say GO KINGS don't have any less impact on what the front office decides to do than those who bring forth pages and pages and pages of endless comparisons, statistics, etc.

Speaking for the GO KINGS group, there are times when you just want to enjoy watching your favorite team play, especially when they're starting to look like a team and actually have strung three wins together.
 
Reke coming off the bench is working. You just can't have Reke and Thornton together much unless its a certain situation. They are both black holes and they turn other players into black holes, as both selfish play and team play is contagious. Either Reke or Thornton start, but not both.
 
Andriod_KiNg said:
Oh something about the fact that he is a tiny pg. I love IT, I am going to buy his jersey but just because we are winning some games doesn't mean we should scrap everything and trade everyone cause we got IT on our team. Size wins in the NBA, we may have figured out how to win regular season games in this stretch. But looking at the FUTURE, means that we are going to be facing vet teams with vet players ran by good PGs, they would just work IT in a 7 games series. He will be playing with the trees, no to mention on the offensive end you will find those layups that start from under the back board being blocked alot more. There is a reason why JJ was killing the Heat last year and continued to come off the bench for the Mavs. Its nothing against you personally but IT is a nice role player and nothing more, the fact that others are trying to use IT as an reason to why we should and can trade Evans is a little comical.
Click to expand...

Lmao you're full of it. I never said we should trade anyone, I love tyreke and in no way should we trade him if that is what your'e getting at, so don't try and put words in my mouth. All I am saying is, Why can't he be a starting PG? He won't be the same player in 3 years, he'll be more experienced, better defensive wise, i could go on and on. Now having said that this is my opinion. I'm not telling you to believe it.
 
I wish we had traded Reke berfore the game so we could lose by thirty-something. Such a terrible waste of space. Should have drafted Flynn.
 
Bricklayer said:
Yes, let's.

I have a suggestion how to make that happen: study the good teams, both present and past. Understand why they were good. And emulate them. Make roster decisions like they have made. Make coaching decision like they have made. Accumulate players similar ot he ones they have accumulated and play them in roles similar to the ones that those championship players have played. Do all of the above and sooner or later you too will get good. Constantly act like idiots trying to do it your own way because its fun or cute or exciting or a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff is just another way of guaranteeing that you will lose. Teams have won in this league. They have shared certain traits. Understand those traits. Emulate those traits. And understand no 5'9" guy has started on a championship team, or even on a contender as far as I recall, in the modern history of the NBA. Possibly ever but players were smaller in the good ole days and I don't know those teams by heart to be sure. Avery Johnson was the closest player I can remember at 5'11" I think it was, and he was a pure PG who was cut about half a dozen times before the Spurs slipped through with him as a roleplayer feeding the Twin Towers during the 50 game 1999 season.

If IT goes to the bench as a 6th man it takes the pressure of defying history off of him. He never fails. You get him in a role he could handle early on, call that role locked down, and have a constant point of stability rather than a ? And the other thing about little guys that should be noted is that they normally do not last long. Everything is about quickness at that size, and if they lose the least of it, if an injury robs them of any of their explosiveness, they typically fall back. Live fast, burn bright, fall back young. the only guy I can think of in history who has defied that trend would be Calvin Murply, who started his career more than 40 years ago in a different NBA world. IN the modern era the only models are guys liek Stoudamire at 5'10" or Nate Robinson. Damon had 2 or 3 big years for a bad team in Toronto, then quickly slipped back and settled in as a 13 and 7 sort of jsut adequate PG in Portland, and never got over the top. Nate had a ocuple of years of getting to gun for a bad team in New York, then his career too slipped off rapidly.

I ran this search on basketball-reference.com: show me all the seasons since 1980 where a 5'9" or shorter guy has averaged even 10ppg. here were the results:

5'9" or under search

There are no surpises on that list. Basically you have Spud, Mugsy, Boynkins, Robinson, and the last couple of years of Murphy's career back in the early Reagan Adminstration. And one random guy from that same era named Charlie Criss. Basically we know the stories of all those players, and we know they did not win anything.
Click to expand...
Go ahead and make Thomas the sixth man so we don't break with tradition back to when I was a boy BUT DON'T MAKE EVAns our primary ball bringer-upper and distributor ....... please, please. And, Brick, I know you won't because if I had your knowledge and research capabilities I could show you that no team has ever won it all with the caliber of POINT GUARD that Tyreke is. When you acknowledge that, I will acknowledge that we don't presently have a point guard that will take us all the way.
 
pshn80 said:
Go ahead and make Thomas the sixth man so we don't break with tradition back to when I was a boy BUT DON'T MAKE EVAns our primary ball bringer-upper and distributor ....... please, please. And, Brick, I know you won't because if I had your knowledge and research capabilities I could show you that no team has ever won it all with the caliber of POINT GUARD that Tyreke is. When you acknowledge that, I will acknowledge that we don't presently have a point guard that will take us all the way.
Click to expand...


I'm afraid you won't get that admission from me -- PG is the bastard child of champsionhsip teams. In recent decades almost irrelevant in some ways despite the pure PG peeps claims. Derek Fisher has 5 rings. John Paxson has three. Ron Harper was the PG for 4. Phil Jackson kind of blew up any expectation that you even had to play a PG there. Creative SGs work too. Now that said do I consider that role ideal for Reke? Not realy, depending on personnel. Think in a lot of ways its a distraction for him and hard to balance. But there have certainly been PGs at the highest level who have had no more pure PG in them than Reke has the potential to.
 
I would say so far Isaiah Thomas has held his own against opposing point guards. Per 48 minutes, opposing point guards average 19.6 pts, 9.2 assists, 5.6 reb, and a eFG% of .472. Reke's point guard opponents per 48 have averaged 20.2 pts, 10.1 assists, 5.3 reb, and an eFG% of .498.
 
jpsls said:
I would say so far Isaiah Thomas has held his own against opposing point guards. Per 48 minutes, opposing point guards average 19.6 pts, 9.2 assists, 5.6 reb, and a eFG% of .472. Reke's point guard opponents per 48 have averaged 20.2 pts, 10.1 assists, 5.3 reb, and an eFG% of .498.
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Except of course with Reke no they didn't -- he spent half his time off covering other guards while we tried to hide Thornton on PGs. With IT there are no such games.
 
Brick, thanks for your comments above. I guess I really didn't expect my offering to fly. It is an open question for the players, the fans, the staff. It's fun watching the team develop. Of course it helps when they win a few.
 
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