Record on this 5 game homestand?

[SacTownKid]

I'm going the reverse psychology route. You can all thank me later.

 

[Kingstime]

Would love to see growth here and them taking advantage of weaker opponents on paper. If they keep up the great play over the last week I see a 5-0 homestand.

If they play down I could easily see them dropping every game besides the Portland game

 

[CruzDude]

Somewhere between 1 and 4 wins, maybe.

 

[pshn80]

So far, the weaker the team the tougher it is for us to beat them. I'm hoping for two wins and three losses. Go Kings!

 

[Gary]

There's being a homer, and then there's complete closed-mindedness and insularity. I'm not saying that Cousins and Gay are bad, or that the Jazz are even any good, but if Cousins and Gay were that much better than anyone on the Jazz roster, we wouldn't be in fourteenth place.

Also, even if you were to stipulate that it were true, put it like this: I'll gladly take their 3-12 over ours.

uhhhh.. So the other 10 players don't matter then?

Cousins/Gay are in my opinion much better than any two the Jazz can toss our way. Name two people on the Jazz you would trade Cousins/Gay for in a trade.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Didn't you say the Jazz would be way better than Portland this year?

I didn't say that the Jazz would be "way" better than Portland, I said that Portland would finish DFL in the Northwest. And I was loud wrong on that. But, that prediction had way more to do with my opinion of Portland than it did with my opinion of Utah. I completely expected Utah to finish fourth in their division, and below .500.

I'm still not sold on Portland, so I'm going to double down on that, and I don't really see what me being wrong about Portland has to do with Sacramento being clearly better than Utah, which I'm not really sure we are.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

uhhhh.. So the other 10 players don't matter then?

Don't matter to what? I get the sense that we are responding to completely different questions?

 

[Gary]

Don't matter to what? I get the sense that we are responding to completely different questions?

You said that if Cousins and Gay were not better or much better based on the Kings being just as bad record wise as the Jazz (14th place). I said that there are 10 other players on the team that factor into how good/bad we are as well.

But I think their 3-12 is better than our 3-12 though because we have more talent overall. They are doing the same with less.

 

[rainmaker]

Does it matter who's better than the other, Utah or Sac?

We're both looking up at everybody else in our conference. Don't see the point in arguing who's the worst and who's the 2nd worst.

I guess have at it if you like. The reward for the winner of this debate is the ability to proudly proclaim your team has the title of 2nd worst in the entire conference.

If we're better than Utah, we've done a poor job showing it and likewise, if Utah is better than us they've done a poor job of showing it. I'd say it's more like bad vs bad. Who's slightly less bad? Don't care, only one of the teams has Cuz and that's my team. I'll sleep well.

 

[Bricklayer]

There's being a homer, and then there's complete closed-mindedness and insularity. I'm not saying that Cousins and Gay are bad, or that the Jazz are even any good, but if Cousins and Gay were that much better than anyone on the Jazz roster, we wouldn't be in fourteenth place.

Also, even if you were to stipulate that it were true, put it like this: I'll gladly take their 3-12 over ours.

Cousins and Gay ARE that much better than anybody on the Jazz roster as the Jazz payers are today (maybe Hayward and Favors will develop).

Unfortunately players 3-12 are not, fit badly, and do not play defense.

 

[CruzDude]

and these ahhh, umm, arguments have to to with wins on the home stand how?

 

[Npliam]

Cousins and Gay ARE that much better than anybody on the Jazz roster as the Jazz payers are today (maybe Hayward and Favors will develop).

Unfortunately players 3-12 are not, fit badly, and do not play defense.

Uhh.......no. they aren't.

 

[spudfan]

The best player on both teams is Cousins but he isn't so much better than what the Jazz have in Favors who isn't nearly as polished offensively but is an efficient offensive player, good defender and good rebounder. Perhaps his best strength is as a pick and roll defender and that is something that Kings are going to struggle with as long as Boogie is there.

Isn't so much better? What kind of juggling are you doing in your head to come to that conclusion?

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Uhh.......no. they aren't.

Thy easily are and I don't see how you could prove the argument the other way around.

 

[Bricklayer]

Uhh.......no. they aren't.

Yes they really are, and I'm not the one being a homer here.

Cousins is a flat out star receiving accolades at the highest level. Rudy was given a max contract a couple of years back because people thought he was too. He's not of course but he's probably the 5th or 6th best SF in the league. Your Utah guys just aren't. I like Hayward, but he's been exposed trying to be a #1 option. A bit like Gay really. I still think he can reach a Gay like level, but he's young and as his usage has gone up and he has become more of a focus, his efficiency has fallen. He might end up being a good number 3 like Parsons rather than even a #2 like Gay. And you've been pitching the Favors thing for years now, but that really is homeresque. Useful guy. Good guy. But he's clearly several degrees below the top frontcourt stars in the West. Has had every opportunity too to prove differently, with even his main frontcourt competition/partner in Kanter disappointing and heading to the bench, but in the end he's 13-9 with some D. There is just flat a huge gap between those players and the star bigs. Better for you to start up an argument somewhere over whether Favors is better than Ibaka or DeAndre Jordan than to try to compare him to franchise level type goto guys.

 

[Npliam]

Yes they really are, and I'm not the one being a homer here.

Cousins is a flat out star receiving accolades at the highest level. Rudy was given a max contract a couple of years back because people thought he was too. He's not of course but he's probably the 5th or 6th best SF in the league. Your Utah guys just aren't. I like Hayward, but he's been exposed trying to be a #1 option. A bit like Gay really. I still think he can reach a Gay like level, but he's young and as his usage has gone up and he has become more of a focus, his efficiency has fallen. He might end up being a good number 3 like Parsons rather than even a #2 like Gay. And you've been pitching the Favors thing for years now, but that really is homeresque. Useful guy. Good guy. But he's clearly several degrees below the top frontcourt stars in the West. Has had every opportunity too to prove differently, with even his main frontcourt competition/partner in Kanter disappointing and heading to the bench, but in the end he's 13-9 with some D. There is just flat a huge gap between those players and the star bigs. Better for you to start up an argument somewhere over whether Favors is better than Ibaka or DeAndre Jordan than to try to compare him to franchise level type goto guys.

Look, I have no issue with saying that Cousins is a better player than Favors or the Gay is better than Hayward. I guess the issue I have is how much better I think they are compared to how much better the average Kings fan thinks they are. Let's put a number on it to make it more objective. In my mind it goes something like this:

Cousins 8.5
He is a physical beast but he has holes is his game (The really are disappearing quickly though). He isn't a very good defender and can't elevate over guys

Gay 8
Can create his own shot at will but sometimes you wonder about the shots he chooses and isn't really know for his defensive effort. Still players that can get a shot off even when the defense knows they are going to shoot it are hard to come by.

Favors 7
Strong and athletic but doesn't have the footwork to be a great post player. Is an efficient offensive player but not a dominate post player. Excels at pick n roll defense and is a good rebounded and post defender.

Hayward 7
Isn't a number 1 option offensively and after starting out the season shooting close to 50% hasn't been good the last 10 games or so and is shooting closer to 40%. Makes other players better offensively, plays good defense, especially in transition, and usually makes the right play on offense.

Cousins/Gay 16.5 out of 20
Hayward/ Favors 14 out 20

Again, Cousins is better, I could see giving him a 9 out of 10 but even if I did that still doesn't make them THAT much better.

Anyway, I think the Kings will go 4-1 on this home stand and then really struggle on the road.

 

[Uncia03]

Look, I have no issue with saying that Cousins is a better player than Favors or the Gay is better than Hayward. I guess the issue I have is how much better I think they are compared to how much better the average Kings fan thinks they are. Let's put a number on it to make it more objective. In my mind it goes something like this:

Cousins 8.5
He is a physical beast but he has holes is his game (The really are disappearing quickly though). He isn't a very good defender and can't elevate over guys

Gay 8
Can create his own shot at will but sometimes you wonder about the shots he chooses and isn't really know for his defensive effort. Still players that can get a shot off even when the defense knows they are going to shoot it are hard to come by.

Favors 7
Strong and athletic but doesn't have the footwork to be a great post player. Is an efficient offensive player but not a dominate post player. Excels at pick n roll defense and is a good rebounded and post defender.

Hayward 7
Isn't a number 1 option offensively and after starting out the season shooting close to 50% hasn't been good the last 10 games or so and is shooting closer to 40%. Makes other players better offensively, plays good defense, especially in transition, and usually makes the right play on offense.

Cousins/Gay 16.5 out of 20
Hayward/ Favors 14 out 20

Again, Cousins is better, I could see giving him a 9 out of 10 but even if I did that still doesn't make them THAT much better.

Anyway, I think the Kings will go 4-1 on this home stand and then really struggle on the road.

I really like Favors. In fact I'd trade anyone on the Kings not named Cousins/Gay for Favors, and I'd seriously consider trading Gay + everyone else if I could land both Favors and Hayward.
The difference really is Cousins.

I could name on a couple of fingers the guys I would be willing to trade Cousins straight up for...but I have always coveted dominant big men over most any other type of player.
Cousins is the only player of the 4 that you start with, then starting looking to find players to add to.
The other three, regardless of how good they are, are all players that you look to add to that singular dominant piece. They are the Bosh-type players to the LeBron James.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

I really like Favors. In fact I'd trade anyone on the Kings not named Cousins/Gay for Favors, and I'd seriously consider trading Gay + everyone else if I could land both Favors and Hayward.
The difference really is Cousins.

I could name on a couple of fingers the guys I would be willing to trade Cousins straight up for...but I have always coveted dominant big men over most any other type of player.
Cousins is the only player of the 4 that you start with, then starting looking to find players to add to.
The other three, regardless of how good they are, are all players that you look to add to that singular dominant piece. They are the Bosh-type players to the LeBron James.

I think Ben has more potential than Favors.

 

[Bricklayer]

Look, I have no issue with saying that Cousins is a better player than Favors or the Gay is better than Hayward. I guess the issue I have is how much better I think they are compared to how much better the average Kings fan thinks they are. Let's put a number on it to make it more objective. In my mind it goes something like this:

Cousins 8.5
He is a physical beast but he has holes is his game (The really are disappearing quickly though). He isn't a very good defender and can't elevate over guys

Gay 8
Can create his own shot at will but sometimes you wonder about the shots he chooses and isn't really know for his defensive effort. Still players that can get a shot off even when the defense knows they are going to shoot it are hard to come by.

Favors 7
Strong and athletic but doesn't have the footwork to be a great post player. Is an efficient offensive player but not a dominate post player. Excels at pick n roll defense and is a good rebounded and post defender.

Hayward 7
Isn't a number 1 option offensively and after starting out the season shooting close to 50% hasn't been good the last 10 games or so and is shooting closer to 40%. Makes other players better offensively, plays good defense, especially in transition, and usually makes the right play on offense.

Cousins/Gay 16.5 out of 20
Hayward/ Favors 14 out 20

Again, Cousins is better, I could see giving him a 9 out of 10 but even if I did that still doesn't make them THAT much better.

Anyway, I think the Kings will go 4-1 on this home stand and then really struggle on the road.

I am not sure we are wildly off in the numerical evaluation of the players, except I of course would bump Cousins to that 9. In a league where all the West's best frontcourt guys are in the West, only Love's ridiculous production numbers give me pause when assessing Cuz's value. He can, and has, outperformed virtually all of the other top bigs head to head.

Where we differ seems to be in the implications of those sorts of number ratings. Utah has some star's nice supporting cast forming up. But until you get that star, you aren't going to win anyway. Fortunately its a good year to lose. Suddenly stick Wiggins or Parker in between Hayward and Favors, and everybody looks a lot better.

Sacto has the opposite problem. Its got its star (and possibly stars) and needs to put together a supporting cast that fits. I would however take that situation/problem 100 times out of 100 over the opposite one.

 

[KingMilz]

If you combined Favors and Kantar they would not equal out to Cousins

 

[Bricklayer]

I think Ben has more potential than Favors.

I can't sign off on that. Potenital as in absolute best case scenario? Maybe. But in 80 of the 100 scenarios Favors turns out the more useful player. Let's take the not terribly large leap and say that Favors settles in as a 15-10 player with defense. In order to exceed that a dribbling challenged SG (i.e. not a creater) is going to need to be 20+ppg at least.

 

[Npliam]

If you combined Favors and Kantar they would not equal out to Cousins

No one is saying they would.

 

[Bricklayer]

No one is saying they would.

Point of interest: what the hell happened to Kanter? I liked him going into this season, even used a few fantasy spots on him, thought his potential in the post made him the possible interior goto guy for the Jazz moreso than Favors. And now in 2 months he's gone from darkhorse young prospect to people talking about him as a failure with softness issues?

 

[HereWeBoogie]

anything less than 3-2 would be a big disappointment. im fine with losing to Portland and maybe letting one other slip away. but have to win 3 at least against these teams.

and then the road trip that follows is brutal. going to Indiana and OKC to name a few

 

[KingMilz]

Point of interest: what the hell happened to Kanter? I liked him going into this season, even used a few fantasy spots on him, thought his potential in the post made him the possible interior goto guy for the Jazz moreso than Favors. And now in 2 months he's gone from darkhorse young prospect to people talking about him as a failure with softness issues?

Poor man's Gortat

 

[Glenn]

If you combined Favors and Kantar they would not equal out to Cousins

Somebody please get out Photoshop. I want to see this.

 

[Npliam]

Point of interest: what the hell happened to Kanter? I liked him going into this season, even used a few fantasy spots on him, thought his potential in the post made him the possible interior goto guy for the Jazz moreso than Favors. And now in 2 months he's gone from darkhorse young prospect to people talking about him as a failure with softness issues?

I really have no idea. I thought he was going to thrive with the absence of big Al and Millsap. He played a lot more physical last year but it was against backups so who knows.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You said that if Cousins and Gay were not better or much better based on the Kings being just as bad record wise as the Jazz (14th place). I said that there are 10 other players on the team that factor into how good/bad we are as well.

But I think their 3-12 is better than our 3-12 though because we have more talent overall. They are doing the same with less.

Since the Gay trade, we are 3-7; that's a .300 record, which is actually marginally below our actual winning percentage of .333. If you project that out over the course of the season to-date, that still puts us in fourteenth place. Now, does that mean if we'd had this squad since the first day of training camp, that we'd still be 9-21? Probably not; I'd like to think that we'd at least be ahead of the gd lakers, but who knows?

I think that Cousins is really good; he's the best player on either team, without a doubt. I think that Gay is pretty good; i do not think that it can be stated, without a doubt, that he is the second-best player on either team. I also think that, if they were as good as Kings Fans like to think they are, we'd be playing better than .300 ball, even if we replaced players 3-12 with the Bighorns.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Since the Gay trade, we are 3-7; that's a .300 record, which is actually marginally below our actual winning percentage of .333. If you project that out over the course of the season to-date, that still puts us in fourteenth place. Now, does that mean if we'd had this squad since the first day of training camp, that we'd still be 9-21? Probably not; I'd like to think that we'd at least be ahead of the gd lakers, but who knows?

I think that Cousins is really good; he's the best player on either team, without a doubt. I think that Gay is pretty good; i do not think that it can be stated, without a doubt, that he is the second-best player on either team. I also think that, if they were as good as Kings Fans like to think they are, we'd be playing better than .300 ball, even if we replaced players 3-12 with the Bighorns.

Ummmm, we beat Houston x2, Miami, and Orlando. We are 4-6 since the trade.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Looking at how bad we play vs. bad teams, we'd be lucky to go 3-2 this homestand.